Please Don't Offer Race Changes (Poll)

Iluvrien · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Except that it will... they will just look different. The Races of Tamriel will be utterly interchangeable and the racial passives that people are likely to select will be the ones that resemble (if not directly copy) the "optimized" races now.

ebls_BR · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

No.

I'd rather see racial balancing and diversity (one of the most important things in this game), which mean, improvement to the game, instead of this option.

Also, there are too much cons (paying for the best race of the moment, paying for something you should earn doing research before chose or reroll, etc.). What would be the next step? Pay to chose your class, your skills, your passives, paying for everything?

And if a player didn't make any research before chose his/her race, if the person don't want reroll (don't want to spent more time playing or doing what everyone did) or the person don't care for the lore (he/she is not a TES fan), she/he won't play this game for much longer anyway.

Alphashado · May 2015

It honestly doesn't matter to me if race change is in the Crown Store or not.

But ZoS should at the very least offer a one time race change in compensation for all the changes made in 1.6.

I cannot stress enough that there are alot of people with irrelevant racial traits on their characters strictly because of changes made by ZoS and no fault of their own.

And I would rather stick a red hot poker in my eyeball than to take the same class all the way to V14 again because of an issue that was created by developmental changes.

Audigy · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

You guys need to start picking your race because of the lore and not because of a small racial bonus. From a seasoned MMO Vet the advice, racial stuff will always see changes over the years. You would be silly to make your decisions based on a bonus.

Same with classes. Don't pick a class just because it has an edge over others, you will never find joy or fun in an MMO like that.

Iluvrien · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Alphashado wrote: »

But ZoS should at the very least offer a one time race change in compensation for all the changes made in 1.6.

And the next time ZOS change the racials? Say they alter a passive for a race by 1%. Is that enough to trigger a "one time" race change? If not then how about 5% or 10%. You see, there is a point at which ZOS has to draw a line. After each change to racial passives they will have to issue a statement akin to one form of the following: "After this we do/don't offer a free race change". So how do we know that isn't what they did after 1.6? How do we know that they didn't see their changes (rightly or wrongly) as not being significant enough to offer the option.

Unless, of course, you are working on the basis that any change, no matter how small, is a trigger for a free "one time" race change... in which case you can give up on the "one time" right here and now.

Strangely enough, if I had any belief that the most insignificant of alterations of racial passives wouldn't trigger a tirade of "We want a one time free race change" then I would be more than happy to support the idea. The point is that I don't believe that. Not for a moment. The reason why comes back to how people view their characters. If they view them as characters, rather than assemblages of numbers that can be used for defeating other numbers, then I suspect that they would be less likely to throw out a major component of that character's identity for a % increase in a stat that may well change next month anyway. For the group of people for whom the characters they play are just there for the next competitive event (be it PvP or competitive PvE) then there is no reason I can think of for them to retain a race if it is even mildly non-optimal. These people are likely to change as often as is necessary to maintain their edge and, I suspect, will care little for any negative impact that the inclusion of this mechanism will have on the rest of us.

The posts in this thread have done little to convince me otherwise.

Audigy wrote: »

You guys need to start picking your race because of the lore and not because of a small racial bonus. From a seasoned MMO Vet the advice, racial stuff will always see changes over the years. You would be silly to make your decisions based on a bonus.

Same with classes. Don't pick a class just because it has an edge over others, you will never find joy or fun in an MMO like that.

Yes.

Skullemainia · May 2015

I want to change my race, even if racials are balanced without big changes.

people really think racial passives aren't that big of a deal, but they REALLY do. they give the biggest passive buffs in the game!!!!

Alphashado · May 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

But ZoS should at the very least offer a one time race change in compensation for all the changes made in 1.6.

And the next time ZOS change the racials? Say they alter a passive for a race by 1%. Is that enough to trigger a "one time" race change? If not then how about 5% or 10%. You see, there is a point at which ZOS has to draw a line. After each change to racial passives they will have to issue a statement akin to one form of the following: "After this we do/don't offer a free race change". So how do we know that isn't what they did after 1.6? How do we know that they didn't see their changes (rightly or wrongly) as not being significant enough to offer the option.

Unless, of course, you are working on the basis that any change, no matter how small, is a trigger for a free "one time" race change... in which case you can give up on the "one time" right here and now.

Strangely enough, if I had any belief that the most insignificant of alterations of racial passives wouldn't trigger a tirade of "We want a one time free race change" then I would be more than happy to support the idea. The point is that I don't believe that. Not for a moment. The reason why comes back to how people view their characters. If they view them as characters, rather than assemblages of numbers that can be used for defeating other numbers, then I suspect that they would be less likely to throw out a major component of that character's identity for a % increase in a stat that may well change next month anyway. For the group of people for whom the characters they play are just there for the next competitive event (be it PvP or competitive PvE) then there is no reason I can think of for them to retain a race if it is even mildly non-optimal. These people are likely to change as often as is necessary to maintain their edge and, I suspect, will care little for any negative impact that the inclusion of this mechanism will have on the rest of us.

The posts in this thread have done little to convince me otherwise.

Audigy wrote: »

You guys need to start picking your race because of the lore and not because of a small racial bonus. From a seasoned MMO Vet the advice, racial stuff will always see changes over the years. You would be silly to make your decisions based on a bonus.

Same with classes. Don't pick a class just because it has an edge over others, you will never find joy or fun in an MMO like that.

Yes.

No. I carefully selected which race I wanted that would match the playstyle I envisioned for that character. I gave it alot of thought and consideration. I was VERY happy with my decision. Then 1.6 happened. These were MAJOR CHANGES to KEY abilities that now require STAMINA instead of MAGICKA. So by no fault of my own, my characters racial skills are worthless for the build I wanted to use way back at character creation.

These were major changes that will likely never happen again. I have never even seen it happen in an MMO before where they took magical skills and converted them to stamina or health based skills. I'm not talking about racial trait changes, I am talking about KEY RESOURCE POOL changes.

I chose a magicka based race because the abilities I wanted were magicka. Now they are stamina. No amount of rightious judgment from people telling me "oh well" is going to sway my opinion. Period.

AngryNord · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the title. How bloody hard is it to understand that the passives are part of the races' identity, and a big part of TES lore????

PKMN12 · May 2015

I want to change my race, even if racials are balanced without big changes.

AngryNord wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the title. How bloody hard is it to understand that the passives are part of the races' identity, and a big part of TES lore????

un, Arena, Daggerfall, and Skyrim did not have racials that were really important.

and guess what, no, just remove the racial, guess what, races are still the races.

DobbaDeuce · May 2015

I won't use, but don't care if they add race changes.

PKMN12 wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the title. How bloody hard is it to understand that the passives are part of the races' identity, and a big part of TES lore????

un, Arena, Daggerfall, and Skyrim did not have racials that were really important.

and guess what, no, just remove the racial, guess what, races are still the races.

It depends what you mean by "really important." Personally, I've played every Elder Scrolls game and have never chosen a character based on their racial passives, thus I don't think they've ever been "really important" (including my characters in ESO). The only reason this game is different is because other people are playing it. You can bet those racials in Arena, Daggerfall, and Skyrim would've been "really important" if there were other people running around. You think anyone would've chosen Khajiit in Skyrim if it had PvP with their quickly useless "bonus claw damage" or a female Redguard in Daggerfall with their -20 stats compared to every other race? No, but it adds to VARIETY.

I like my Khajiit, Argonian, Nord, and Orc just as much as my Dunmer, Altmer, Breton, and Imperial (and if we had 10 character slots I'd have a Bosmer and Redguard as well). I like seeing what makes the races different, but I never choose based on that fact. I think they should allow race changes just so people who are so concerned about being the best can select their new "favorite" race without starting from scratch every time, but please do NOT get rid of racials. I'm sick of people asking for content to be REMOVED from games.

KrisButtar · May 2015

option 5. I won't use it but I want it available to those who do want it and plan on using it.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Saft wrote: »

This must be a failed poll for creator. Even tho the poll in its topic name and answers apear quite biased toward its bad with store race changes. The poll result itself shows its no majority in favor of not having race changes. In fact it is a slight majority that want it. So i really hope zenimax add it.

That's because the majority of people lack the foresight to see the harm it represents for the game. I'm all for people being able to race change, if they utterly remove racial passives, or limit it to the 'style' passives all races have. Style passives meaning Adrenaline Rush for Redguards, Stealthy for bosmer and khajiit, swim speed for argonians, Red Diamond for Imperials, etc. Even then, there might be balance issues, but at the least it would be less harmful than what buying a race change does for the game. I know I'm hammering this point home a lot, but its really quite obvious. Buying a race change is primarily a way for players to fix a problem that is developer instigated. You are paying them for bad game design, and that's a slippery slope I really don't want to go down. STO and other games were ruined for similar reasons.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Alphashado wrote: »

Something tells me that the vast majority of people using the "wow you are too lazy to roll another character" argument are below level 50 and have no idea what they are talking about.

I do want to reply to this one Alpha. I understand the discomfort and irritation players feel about racial balance. Like I've said before, I was hit by the Argonian Nightblade Alchemist potion build nerfs of TU/1.6. I've felt the annoyance at game system changes that utterly change the way a character operates (2hander and elemental buffs for sorcs or dk's. Changes to Surge, etc). I'm not unfamiliar with these annoyances, but I think we need to consider the big picture here as consumers. While I understand the desire to want to correct flaws in your character, produced by the game developers changing things at a whim, I think the greater concern is that we are offering to pay them for breaking the game. We are in situations like this actually asking them to break the game, so we can pay them to break the game some more, so we can pay them more to break the game. I for one have no desire to reroll a nightblade to vet 14, just to play a more favorable race. I understand that. Simultaneously, I don't want to pay them for screwing up my Argonian. I want them to fix my Argonian. I made an argonian for a reason, both stylistic and statistical.

This is why I keep saying that I'd rather they did away with passives if they're going to break builds. It bothers me to pay someone for doing a bad job.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Mercutio wrote: »

Doesn't affect me in the least if another player changes his/her race. Except I guess it would be more money for the devs to create content with.

This is a nice sentiment, but I've never really seen it come to fruition in a free to play game. The more lazy cash the developers can create, the less real development they seem to do. Can you blame them? If you pay them heaps of cash for doing lazy work, why not continue doing the lazy work? The more the game becomes about what I can buy with dollars, the less interesting it actually becomes. If they sell DLC, skins, mounts, beards, etc I can live with that.

As an aside, please don't take offense that I hold a contrary point of view to some of you about buying race changes. I'm not attacking you. I'm stating an opinion which I think is important to the development of the game, and I in part hope that the developers read what I'm saying and realize there is a significant portion of the player base who finds this sort of behavior repulsive. In all fairness, I have a feeling a lot of people that are up voting for these types of changes don't even realize they will come to regret it. I've seen such turns in opinion happen time and again on other games. There are heaps of youtube videos discussing these types of issues in the MMO world. There is a reason that subscriber players familiar with F2P games were repulsed by the change in business model. It isn't as though Free to Play is inherently bad, there are good examples out there. The problem is that the f2p format develops in such a way that it often ruins the enjoyment and gameplay of an MMO, even if you throw thousands of dollars a year at a game.

Aneima · May 2015

People that are demanding race and trait changes = People that didn't do any research or preplanning whatsoever before creating their class.

There is more to a game than just hitting the start button people.

G0ku · May 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the title. How bloody hard is it to understand that the passives are part of the races' identity, and a big part of TES lore????

How hard is it to understand that race changes will come no matter what because it means cash for zos? I don´t like the idea of race change, my suggestion is just to prevent tamriel from being boring by the looks...

G0ku · May 2015

Aneima wrote: »

People that are demanding race and trait changes = People that didn't do any research or preplanning whatsoever before creating their class.

There is more to a game than just hitting the start button people.

Many people started out seeing teso as just what it is - a game. Now they take it too serious just like you seem to do....

Aneima · May 2015

G0ku wrote: »

Aneima wrote: »

People that are demanding race and trait changes = People that didn't do any research or preplanning whatsoever before creating their class.

There is more to a game than just hitting the start button people.

Many people started out seeing teso as just what it is - a game. Now they take it too serious just like you seem to do....

Reading racial traits,abilities,passives,etc before jumping into a game has nothing to do with taking it too serious. If you learned in school how to comprehend simple sentences you would know this.

Alphashado · May 2015

Aneima wrote: »

People that are demanding race and trait changes = People that didn't do any research or preplanning whatsoever before creating their class.

There is more to a game than just hitting the start button people.

That is normally the case. So I will understand and forgive your broad, sweeping insult to many of us that are asking for a race change. But that is not the case here. Frankly, every time I read a comment like this it makes my blood boil. Many of us DID extensively research all of the races. We DID choose one that matched our chosen play style. We DID pre-plan.

Then ZoS swapped many skills from magicka to stamina in the Champion System conversion, rendering our existing racials obsolete. I truly hope ZoS actually does read these threads and they don't just skim over the poll results. Because I think there is a gigantic number of new players reading and voting on polls like this w/o having the slightest clue about the circumstances surrounding this situation in this game.

Iluvrien · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Alphashado wrote: »

No. I carefully selected which race I wanted that would match the playstyle I envisioned for that character. I gave it alot of thought and consideration. I was VERY happy with my decision. Then 1.6 happened. These were MAJOR CHANGES to KEY abilities that now require STAMINA instead of MAGICKA. So by no fault of my own, my characters racial skills are worthless for the build I wanted to use way back at character creation.

These were major changes that will likely never happen again. I have never even seen it happen in an MMO before where they took magical skills and converted them to stamina or health based skills. I'm not talking about racial trait changes, I am talking about KEY RESOURCE POOL changes.

I chose a magicka based race because the abilities I wanted were magicka. Now they are stamina. No amount of rightious judgment from people telling me "oh well" is going to sway my opinion. Period.

All well and good, and it certainly seems that you have a considered and thoughtful approach to this situation but sadly, not everyone is like you.

I have seen people in this thread, and some of those that have gone before it after the 1.6 changes, discussing the numerical effects rather than the base pool requirements. It is those people that I am concerned about. While I now believe that you may well find a single race change sufficient it would seem that others may well not have your restraint.

Anyone feel like making another poll?

"For those of you who support race change after 1.6:
a) One time race change due to the resource pool changes.
b) Addition of race change mechanism."

My suspicion is that the "a" answers would be in the minority and that is what worries me.

newtinmpls · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Nostramo wrote: »

No. What is next, class changes?

I'm against race changes ... partly because I'm an ES fan and I think race should matter. And yes, the races are unbalanced at the moment. Things will change. And change. Frankly I think there should be something "good" and something "bad" with each racial passive.

And I'm sick of hearing "all the other kids MMOers get to do it"

But classes? That's totally against ES lore anyway. I'd like to see the whole class system dismantled.

newtinmpls · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

Nostramo wrote: »

[qIt affects me because I don't want to see that Orc Mage I saw yesterday as a Breton Templar today. Just like how I won't wake up and see Obama as a Russian Samurai tomorrow. According to you M16 bow skins pack, Dwemer automobile pack or Elvis costumes pack that will destroy the atmosphere should also be a part of our choices and as long as it doesn't affect me directly and I have no saying on it?

Oh my god, I was actually starting to feel sympathetic toward some of this but - an Elvis costume?!?! Now you have gone too far.

Junkogen · May 2015

I want to change my race, even if racials are balanced without big changes.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

so people who chose their race to match their build don't find that their build suddenly doesn't work.

Um... My main is an Argonian nightblade chosen for the potion/catalyst synergy. My build suddenly doesn't work and there really isn't a top build for an Argonian NB. Race change, please! Or seriously balance the passives, which I would be cool with, as long as it's legitimately balanced and not like an even greater boost to swim speed (I think the developers think increased swim speed is a huge advantage, hence their reluctance to give Argonians anything else).

Also, they already changed the game so that a lot of people's builds don't work. A bunch of skills got changed from magicka to stamina. When the game launched, stamina builds were laughed at, the game was full of dresses and staves, and all class skills used magicka. Now the game is completely different.

People like to make the assumption that those of us who want a race change just didn't do our research. You could research yourself silly and not anticipate the changes they've implemented. Race change allows people the ability to not have to repeat a crap ton of content just to play a build they like. What's wrong with that?

ebls_BR · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

PKMN12 wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the title. How bloody hard is it to understand that the passives are part of the races' identity, and a big part of TES lore????

un, Arena, Daggerfall, and Skyrim did not have racials that were really important.

and guess what, no, just remove the racial, guess what, races are still the races.

Wrong. If you really play these games, as a RPG which they are, you would know: races matter. Disposition from others, attributes, customization, profile, skills, dialogues, etc., some of these things change, based on your race chosen. Some games have more, other less of these factors with influence in your character and the world.
For example, I remember specifically choose a Bosmer by his insight and wit in Daggerfall (luck and agility). And I also remember not need to do anything to be recognized as a "blood kin" by Orcs playing with them in Skyrim.

SpookyPickle · May 2015

I won't use, and don't want to see race changes.

As i have voted, I would hate to see the ability for players to change their race.

What I would like to see is maybe the ability to pay via gold or crowns for a re-customization feature as an alternative. A switching of race would be a bit too much. But the ability to change your character's looks. As the story progresses your character gets into bigger and bigger battles, and maybe someone wants to add some battle scars. Someone else may just prefer a haircut, or facial marking change. Or to add or remove an adornment. But I think that should be a heavily considered option before jumping to race changes.

G0ku · May 2015

Aneima wrote: »

If you learned in school how to comprehend simple sentences you would know this.

Which school taught you insulting people leads to them understanding your point of view? There´s something like reading between the lines which tells me that you´re the kind of guy who should start to get out and take a walk to get fresh air so that you can see things more relaxed again.

Folkb · May 2015

re-do all the passives and let use pick our own passives or else you'll see the same 3 races in game.

Artis · May 2015

I want to change my race, but only if racials are drastically changed.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Unless, of course, you are working on the basis that any change, no matter how small, is a trigger for a free "one time" race change... in which case you can give up on the "one time" right here and now.

Let's be honest, the change of racial abilities make not more sense than when a character changes the race. So they shouldn't rebalance races too often, but whenever they do - yes, let us switch .

AngryNord wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Just let people buy the set of racial passives they want, this way tamriel won´t be only populated by dunmer, altmer, bretons and imperials...

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the title. How bloody hard is it to understand that the passives are part of the races' identity, and a big part of TES lore????

How about changes of the effects of those passives all of a sudden? Is that a big part of TES lore? Idk, as far as I remember, the passives didn't changed years after I installed those games....
Also, you know what's a big part of TES? That those passives only affect characters when they start their road.. After they train for a while, races don't matter. So no idea what you are talking about. All those +10 to Alteration passives didn't mean anything when you max out that school. Here, let me attract your attention to the fact that nobody is asking to change the first passives that are unlocked automatically as in "Faster XP gain in Light Armor skill line for Bretons". And those are the types of passives that were in TES game (lore?).

The compromise for those who want race changes and those who don't want us to skip the leveling can be reached though.
I believe that one step they can make is to make achievements, horses, pvp-ranks etc account wide. Then, I wouldn't mind leveling a new toon that much, because it wouldn't take hundreds or thousands of hours to just reach the point where my main character's progress stopped so that I can keep progressing.

Trollwut · May 2015

I want to change my race, even if racials are balanced without big changes.

Everyone who thinks "if you peeped up race choice, it's your problem" is an idiot.
This is just a "I'm fine and I want you to not be fine" attitude.

And people have to start thinking that there are also other reasons why to change your race instead of only min/maxxing.

Junkogen · May 2015

I want to change my race, even if racials are balanced without big changes.

Trollwut wrote: »

Everyone who thinks "if you peeped up race choice, it's your problem" is an idiot.
This is just a "I'm fine and I want you to not be fine" attitude.

And people have to start thinking that there are also other reasons why to change your race instead of only min/maxxing.

I know, right? People automatically assume the "worst" (not saying min/maxing is bad).

On the other hand, who cares if people want to min/max a build? Why be forced to replay the entire game just to play as a stamina-based build?

Also, what if I find that I hate the way an Altmer looks after a while? I might want to change race for completely cosmetic reasons.

Everyone has their own reason for wanting to change race and that's not a bad thing, mmkay.