Maybe they should sell VR14's in the Crown Store for ONLY those that already have a max level character. Let those people who don't want to level up another character buy one at max level. They would have only those skill points and attributes based on going straight from level 1 - VR14.

You want more skill points than that, go earn them in the content that's intended. No more grinding general mobs or exploiting this or that just to get to V14. When you grind mobs, you aren't getting more than 1 skill point per level anyway.

Then people don't have to spend countless hours doing quests that don't award skill points. You get skill points for the first quest completion for doing dungeons and can do go those also.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

It was obvious it was a bug when the mob was spawning a 100% Exp granting adds when you usually expect adds to give nothing since they don't even drop loots.

Well being that I have a very very enthusiastic clothier, she was quite happy to receive the huge shipments of various leather drops from the mud crab colonies.

Her favorite battle cry when facing anything with similar drops is (after the first bit of damage she takes):

"You will soon be my SHOES."

I played through all the quests on my main the first time. They were enjoyable, some were even great. However, doing it all again on an alt is completely masochistic, in my opinion.

All that people want is a reasonable way to level up an alt to V14. People are upset about the Crab Grind being nerfed because it provided a relaxing way to level up an alt the entire way to VR5 without the stress of running around having to grind overworld mobs in different zones, and compete over spawns with other random people and questers.

If there was some legitimate way to simply kick back for a few hours and put in the grinding time while listening to music, watching Netflix, etc., then people would not be complaining so much.

Bug fixes are good fixes. I encourage them to continue in this venue.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

The first thing any of the "normal" players wants to do in any MMORPG is to hit the max level so he or she can enjoy endgame content, but this was labeled as a TES game so players shouldn't feel forced to be pigeonholed into a class system or being gutted from content for not being Veteran Rank 14.

Are we (the TES players that like the experince "of playing" - the kind of peeps who log 1000's of hours on Morrowind and Skyrim [personal quirk - I hated Oblivion] and really enjoy relaxed play) so ... different?

I just don't get the "race" and the "grind" mentality when it seems like there is little actual storyline in endgame.

Maybe I'm missing something.

This is an MMORPG that is labeled as a TES game. Of course leveling/levels will be around because it is an MMORPG and players in MMORPGs enjoy End-game content. MMOers will often log over 1000's of hours into just one character. This is also a TES game, TES games are basically a sandbox game, but this game does not have that sandbox feel due to having a class system. So lets say you can't be your Skyrim Conjurer that uses illusion magic to have your pets do all the work for you while you go invisible or being able to shoot fireballs at NPCs from stealth, or even a traditional spellsword, basically be whatever you'd like to be and this allowed players to be more immersed into such games. You cannot do any of these in this game, and most of your "freedom" comes when you hit Max Level.
You can argue that while leveling I did such and such and I am amazing, but to be plain and simple, you did that and that while killing/grinding mobs. End Game - Bueno, Replay value - No. As an MMOer I look forward to PvP, but this game has not had such content to where you could play as you like AND be viable like a traditional TES game such as Oblivion.

I love all the people trying to defend the exploit as somehow being legitimate. I've seen people claim anywhere from 1.6 million to 2 million XP per hour by abusing this exploit. If anyone really, truly thinks it's OK to be able to earn 13-14 Champion Points in 1 hour (with full enlightenment - without any enlightenment it's only 4-5 CPs in 1 hour), I'd really like to hear your reasoning.

UrQuan wrote: »

I love all the people trying to defend the exploit as somehow being legitimate. I've seen people claim anywhere from 1.6 million to 2 million XP per hour by abusing this exploit. If anyone really, truly thinks it's OK to be able to earn 13-14 Champion Points in 1 hour (with full enlightenment - without any enlightenment it's only 4-5 CPs in 1 hour), I'd really like to hear your reasoning.

OK here's some reasoning: at 4-5 CP/hour, it's still going to take 2+ YEARS to hit 3600 CP if you play an hour per day, or 6 months if you play 4 hours a day like I do. 6 months to reach max level is about all the suspense I can take.

.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I love all the people trying to defend the exploit as somehow being legitimate. I've seen people claim anywhere from 1.6 million to 2 million XP per hour by abusing this exploit. If anyone really, truly thinks it's OK to be able to earn 13-14 Champion Points in 1 hour (with full enlightenment - without any enlightenment it's only 4-5 CPs in 1 hour), I'd really like to hear your reasoning.

OK here's some reasoning: at 4-5 CP'hour, it's still going to take 2+ YEARS to hit 3600 CP if you play an hour per day, or 6 months if you play 4 hours a day like I do. 6 months to reach max level is about all the suspense I can take.

Here's the real problem with that: those doing the exploit aren't typically the people who only play an hour a day. They're the people who will sit and grind it for maybe 5-6 hours at a time, because they play enough that they can do that and still spend time on raids or PVP. The exploit is a means to an end, not the reason why someone plays the game. It's a way to rapidly gain CPs so that you can participate in the gameplay you want to participate in more effectively.

Conversely, if you only play 1 hour a day, you're not likely to spend that 1 hour doing the same exploit grind over and over. You're likely to spend that hour doing something more fun and interesting. Sure, you might spend that hour doing the exploit grind once every few days to get more CPs, but that's the extent of it.

So if we assume that for the player who plays an hour per day your average hour of gameplay per day earns you 2 CPs (taking into account enlightenment), and you do the exploit twice a week, each time earning 5 CPs (taking into account enlightenment) then in an average week you'll earn 20 CPs.

Now compare that to the exploiter who spends an average of 4 hours doing the exploit a day (less than the 5-6 hours at a time that I'm sure some people do in order to account for some days when the exploiter has less time), and lets assume he's not gaining any enlightenment or gaining any CPs outside the exploit (both of which are obviously unlikely). In the same week the exploiter earns 140 CPs.

See the problem? If you only have an hour to play per day, you'd better hope that exploits like this get plugged, because otherwise the gap between you and those willing to spend more time taking advantage is just going to rapidly, rapidly increase. Now if you don't PVP or do endgame raids, you might not care about that, but surely even then you can see the extreme imbalance it creates for those who do.

Robbmrp wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the hotfix performed today in Fungal Grotto was to fix an exploit, not a regular grind spot. There were players using this exploit to level way faster than intended, and it needed to be addressed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, are the people using these exploits actually getting their levels dropped down, or just a "slap on the wrist" if that? I cannot think of a better way to reprimand someone using an exploit than to remove all the experience/items they received from it. These people should be easily identifiable. People like this will continue to find and take advantage of exploit after exploit if there are NO REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR ACTIONS......

No rollbacks of course, and so the player power gap between the "haves" and and the "have-nots" of the Champion Point world grows ever wider...

Pffft. Every grind spot ever has been nerfed. These people really want to torture us with questing and/or force us to buy their xp pots.

UrQuan wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I love all the people trying to defend the exploit as somehow being legitimate. I've seen people claim anywhere from 1.6 million to 2 million XP per hour by abusing this exploit. If anyone really, truly thinks it's OK to be able to earn 13-14 Champion Points in 1 hour (with full enlightenment - without any enlightenment it's only 4-5 CPs in 1 hour), I'd really like to hear your reasoning.

OK here's some reasoning: at 4-5 CP'hour, it's still going to take 2+ YEARS to hit 3600 CP if you play an hour per day, or 6 months if you play 4 hours a day like I do. 6 months to reach max level is about all the suspense I can take.

Here's the real problem with that: those doing the exploit aren't typically the people who only play an hour a day. They're the people who will sit and grind it for maybe 5-6 hours at a time, because they play enough that they can do that and still spend time on raids or PVP. The exploit is a means to an end, not the reason why someone plays the game. It's a way to rapidly gain CPs so that you can participate in the gameplay you want to participate in more effectively.

Conversely, if you only play 1 hour a day, you're not likely to spend that 1 hour doing the same exploit grind over and over. You're likely to spend that hour doing something more fun and interesting. Sure, you might spend that hour doing the exploit grind once every few days to get more CPs, but that's the extent of it.

So if we assume that for the player who plays an hour per day your average hour of gameplay per day earns you 2 CPs (taking into account enlightenment), and you do the exploit twice a week, each time earning 5 CPs (taking into account enlightenment) then in an average week you'll earn 20 CPs.

Now compare that to the exploiter who spends an average of 4 hours doing the exploit a day (less than the 5-6 hours at a time that I'm sure some people do in order to account for some days when the exploiter has less time), and lets assume he's not gaining any enlightenment or gaining any CPs outside the exploit (both of which are obviously unlikely). In the same week the exploiter earns 140 CPs.

See the problem? If you only have an hour to play per day, you'd better hope that exploits like this get plugged, because otherwise the gap between you and those willing to spend more time taking advantage is just going to rapidly, rapidly increase. Now if you don't PVP or do endgame raids, you might not care about that, but surely even then you can see the extreme imbalance it creates for those who do.

See, I look at this differently. Because I'm one the guys who plays several hours a day, every day, I'm not worried about a CP "gap" between me and other grinders, as long as I have access to all the same content they do. What I AM worried about is that SOME grinders will have access to superior XP sources that I don't simply because they heard about them before the nerfhammer came down. I don't socialize much in-game, so I never hear about good grind spots until someone mentions them on this forum... so you can imagine how well that works out.

As far as I'm concerned, the most ethical thing ZoS can do is leave the grind spots up so EVERYONE has a fair crack at them.

.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I love all the people trying to defend the exploit as somehow being legitimate. I've seen people claim anywhere from 1.6 million to 2 million XP per hour by abusing this exploit. If anyone really, truly thinks it's OK to be able to earn 13-14 Champion Points in 1 hour (with full enlightenment - without any enlightenment it's only 4-5 CPs in 1 hour), I'd really like to hear your reasoning.

OK here's some reasoning: at 4-5 CP'hour, it's still going to take 2+ YEARS to hit 3600 CP if you play an hour per day, or 6 months if you play 4 hours a day like I do. 6 months to reach max level is about all the suspense I can take.

Here's the real problem with that: those doing the exploit aren't typically the people who only play an hour a day. They're the people who will sit and grind it for maybe 5-6 hours at a time, because they play enough that they can do that and still spend time on raids or PVP. The exploit is a means to an end, not the reason why someone plays the game. It's a way to rapidly gain CPs so that you can participate in the gameplay you want to participate in more effectively.

Conversely, if you only play 1 hour a day, you're not likely to spend that 1 hour doing the same exploit grind over and over. You're likely to spend that hour doing something more fun and interesting. Sure, you might spend that hour doing the exploit grind once every few days to get more CPs, but that's the extent of it.

So if we assume that for the player who plays an hour per day your average hour of gameplay per day earns you 2 CPs (taking into account enlightenment), and you do the exploit twice a week, each time earning 5 CPs (taking into account enlightenment) then in an average week you'll earn 20 CPs.

Now compare that to the exploiter who spends an average of 4 hours doing the exploit a day (less than the 5-6 hours at a time that I'm sure some people do in order to account for some days when the exploiter has less time), and lets assume he's not gaining any enlightenment or gaining any CPs outside the exploit (both of which are obviously unlikely). In the same week the exploiter earns 140 CPs.

See the problem? If you only have an hour to play per day, you'd better hope that exploits like this get plugged, because otherwise the gap between you and those willing to spend more time taking advantage is just going to rapidly, rapidly increase. Now if you don't PVP or do endgame raids, you might not care about that, but surely even then you can see the extreme imbalance it creates for those who do.

See, I look at this differently. Because I'm one the guys who plays several hours a day, every day, I'm not worried about a CP "gap" between me and other grinders, as long as I have access to all the same content they do. What I AM worried about is that SOME grinders will have access to superior XP sources that I don't simply because they heard about them before the nerfhammer came down. I don't socialize much in-game, so I never hear about good grind spots until someone mentions them on this forum... so you can imagine how well that works out.

As far as I'm concerned, the most ethical thing ZoS can do is leave the grind spots up so EVERYONE has a fair crack at them.

.

You're talking about grind spots. This wasn't a grind spot, it was a clear, blatant exploit. Grind spots where you can earn somewhat more XP/hour than doing questing, or PVP, or whatever should be available to everybody who wants to take advantage of them. Exploits where it's easy to gain many, many times more XP/hour by taking advantage of an unforeseen result of a particular fight mechanic should be stopped as soon as possible.

I have a V10 main that I just.....can't.....play anymore. Im not going to run around looking for the little quests I missed, I've completed the worthwhile quests in Crag and not interested in repeatables AND....NO good group is going to take a V10 anywhere. It's not personal, it's pretty standard. "Sorry dude but you need to be at least 12" Hear it all the time across more than one guild. I have great guilds that have several runs per day of the trials and DSA. I just can't participate cause Im V10. I was in Cyro for a few days when the delves were good stuff but now they're back to normal. Crag feels so empty, I dont want to group with people just to kill 4-5 mobs then run a half mile to find another 4-5 or whatever. We NEED grind locations with dense populations of mobs to kill. Sure the achieve is nice but there's another reason dolmens get packed, because people like a continuous flow of mobs to kill even if only for a moment. It's not just xp either, though, it helps a lot; it's the fun/excitement of being on your toes to keep pace with a flow of mobs. I'd like to see a couple/few portals that various daedra pour out of. No standing, waiting for respawn just continuous flow.

The reality is that ZOS is a business and they have the right to force players to play how they see fit but the players also have the right to move on if they are not entertained. It's not a corny threat; players will move on if they're bored with the game for whatever reason and the main reason in ESO is the arduous task of getting through V levels. I don't even mind going 1-50, with the bonus I move faster than I'd like but I stop around V2 cause it starts getting boring. Im lvling my 8th right now, btw.

Lykurgis wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, the hotfix performed today in Fungal Grotto was to fix an exploit, not a regular grind spot. There were players using this exploit to level way faster than intended, and it needed to be addressed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, are the people using these exploits actually getting their levels dropped down, or just a "slap on the wrist" if that? I cannot think of a better way to reprimand someone using an exploit than to remove all the experience/items they received from it. These people should be easily identifiable. People like this will continue to find and take advantage of exploit after exploit if there are NO REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR ACTIONS......

No rollbacks of course, and so the player power gap between the "haves" and and the "have-nots" of the Champion Point world grows ever wider...

So those who were using this grind spot will just find another. If those who play this way are determined to gain XP at the fastest rate possible, they will just move to another spot.

I'm still not understanding how this takes your fun and enjoyment out of the game . . .

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

The first thing any of the "normal" players wants to do in any MMORPG is to hit the max level so he or she can enjoy endgame content, but this was labeled as a TES game so players shouldn't feel forced to be pigeonholed into a class system or being gutted from content for not being Veteran Rank 14.

Are we (the TES players that like the experince "of playing" - the kind of peeps who log 1000's of hours on Morrowind and Skyrim [personal quirk - I hated Oblivion] and really enjoy relaxed play) so ... different?

I just don't get the "race" and the "grind" mentality when it seems like there is little actual storyline in endgame.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Also played many hours on those games and for me the zone that feels the most like previous TES games is Cyrodiil, much more of a sandbox feeling compared to the PVE areas.

I grind in order to get to max level so I can outfit my character with the V14 gear and finalize my PVP build. If I could level in Cyrodiil at a reasonable rate compared to PVE, I'd just go there at level 10 and never leave.

I still remember the days of having to /xp off in DAOC just so you wouldn't outlevel the BG. It would be nice to have XP boosted in PVP, but then again, this entire topic is just a dead horse...