ZOS did the right thing.

djyrb · April 2015

nastuug wrote: »

This could be a really stupid question, but I have to ask it: What reason would one have to level 8 chars to max? The way the game is designed, you could pump crafting on one char, while using two to three more to max out in almost all play styles. With the crazy excess of skill points obtainable and limitation of skills that can be used at any given time, multi-line spec'ing appears to be quite viable.

Your question is legitimate, and I was just sharing my approach to the game after playing it for a long time (early access) The way I view it, the more time I spend playing Veteran characters advances me towards Champion points. What I have now is 3 VR14's which I run with my guilds - dailies, trials, PVP, etc. When I'm solo, I'm currently bouncing back between VR7 and VR2 characters in Cadwell's quests. The quest XP can't be repeated on that character once complete so the more of that I have available the more XP options I have for the time put in playing.

Once you get a character to max level, then your XP options greatly reduce, mostly down to grinding in Cyrodil/Vet 9-10 zones, dailies, trials, etc. There is just a lot less to do for my VR14's when I'm not grouped up.

As far as 8 slots being used, I basically decided to have 2 of each class, one magicka and the other stamina, with racial choices based on that particular class concept.

Also, my post above is assuming that the Veteran levels are not being removed anytime soon, or that post-50 XP potions won't be released. With the addition of Veteran Rank 10 food in 1.6 and them talking about adding new gear sets without any mention of Champion System Phase 4, I think we are a long way off from seeing the Vet 1-14 grind going away.

nastuug · April 2015

Slurg wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

dietlime wrote: »

That's sort of great, but I would rather have an XP potion for $5-7.50 that would give me 24 hours towards veteran levels (no change to xp applied to CP or enlightenment) only.

The current rebuttal to this request is that veteran ranks are in the works of being removed, thus it would be counter-productive to offer a potion for this. It hasn't been released when the ranks will be removed, and most question if it will actually ever happen.

Not just counter-productive. It would be downright unethical for them to stick with their oft-announced position that they are in the process of removing veteran ranks, and then turn around and take cash from us for veteran rank levelling boost potions.

Whether/when the veteran rank system is actually going away or not isn't even the point. It would be a PR disaster for ZOS to tell us VR is going away and then go ahead and sell VR levelling potions for cash anyway.

Your statement is full of truth. It's just unfortunate that we have to suffer for the <insert undetermined timeframe here> until said Veteran Ranks are removed. It's the clash between this feeling and these dirty XP pots showing up on the forums like this.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO · April 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Or it could be the fact that unless you do loads of derp grinding, which is the exact opposite of what this game was built for, you will spend eternity inching through vet ranks.

The only MMO I know atm that is built on "No grinding at all" are GW2 (Which has absolutely crap PvE) and WoW (Payment option) I would like to know though where the "No grinding at all" thing comes from for ESO. It was very grind heavy at 1 to 50 before before they introduced methods like Mudcrap grind with that dungeon scaling. The whole thing only feels "Fast" because I gain a small amount a level everytime I clear about 10-15 quests so I feel like I'm making huge progress when deep down, I know I'm not making anything cause I don't even change gear at 35 until vet.

Vet 1 to 2 for me was actually gained without doing derp grinding and just finishing all the Rift, Cold harbour and doing starter of daggerfall (caed silver) quests and it doesn't even feel that slow because I will skip every thing I feel give too little exp (Below 500) especially those pesky small mobs (50 exp).

It's easy to just calculate it.

I'm a templar.
I run through an area.
I tag every mob that is good for exp and spam puncturing strike as I proceed to the next area for my quests. This takes about 45 seconds and give me 5k ish exp.
Do it again the next time I run through it cause of the quest. Another 5k. Going for Dolmen. Another 5k. Going back to town. Another 5k.

Huzzah! 20k from just running back and forth not counting Dolmen, area unlock and quest exp, easily bumping the whole to 100k in just 25 minutes of questing. That's my derp rate of 4k per minute compared to my grind-heavy 7.5k per minute.

This is with templar which is a class that is awesome for area wipe with constant heal and damage but the same tactic can also be applied to say, NB Stamina that I had planned. With proper gear, you just need to snipe twice and that's 500-700 exp every 3-4 second if you just shoot everything as you run toward the next quest spot.

A friend complained I leveled too fast and proceed to criticize me for dolmen jumping atm but hey, I'm Achievement hunting. I want that Dolmen red color unlocked for my NB. I need those loots to break and research so I can have crafting ready for my NB. I want 250 anchor done. You expect 250 anchors to break without killing a single thing or go back to killing level 20 dolmen? You get 10kish a dolmen and just unlocking that achievement alone is 2.5 vet level.

Grinding purely for the exp is dumb.
Going for a certain goal and have grinding be a benefit is how you should be tackling it. By the time you reach Vet 14 with this method, you will pretty much have 70% of the achievement unlocked (not counting PVP) which is exactly the same darn thing you do on offline games like Skyrim. You're going around doing every possible quests, climbing pointless mountain just to get a certain item and have all achievement unlocked.

UrQuan · April 2015

nastuug wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

djyrb wrote: »

I can see the use for this potion for myself, in that I have 2 characters left that are not Veteran Ranked yet. Before 1.6, I was taking my time with alts like these, leveling them mostly in Blackwater Blade and only jumping into the appropriate PVE zone for their level for the main story/zone quests(skill points)/delves/public dungeons, etc.

However, now that the CP system is here, I feel like I am basically wasting time leveling nonvet characters, when I could be working towards the next Champion Point on a Veteran alt, even when Enlightenment is on cooldown. For me, getting a character to 50 as fast as possible would be the key and these potions would help speed that process up.

Once all 8 slots are filled with Veteran characters, I would have no use for these potions, but if they start offering extra character slots for purchase as well, they could easily put an altaholic like me into a continuous leveling cycle for as long as I'm playing the game.

TL;DR - Dear ZOS, options to purchase more characters slots would go hand in hand with these potions...

This could be a really stupid question, but I have to ask it: What reason would one have to level 8 chars to max? The way the game is designed, you could pump crafting on one char, while using two to three more to max out in almost all play styles. With the crazy excess of skill points obtainable and limitation of skills that can be used at any given time, multi-line spec'ing appears to be quite viable.

one of each class + Crafting master + all three factions = more then 8 characters

Ahh, the other factions. I guess for those who live long enough to max everything out, eight characters would be too little indeed. Just doesn't seem like the majority of players would have a use for more than eight chars.

Anyways, sorry to drift off of topic.

Well, I've got 16 characters. None are max level, but 6 of them have hit VR (and none of them is lower than level 16... hmm, I should really hop on my 2 level 16s and get them up to 20). Partly it's to have all classes in each faction, partly it's because I wanted characters of all races, and partly it's just because I get character concepts in my head and want to build a character around that. For me the aesthetic of a character is at least as important as the build, so that means that I can't just respec to get to the character concept I want. That big bad orc is never going to respec to a young, inexperienced breton apprentice of the mages guild.

And to bring this totally off-topic post back on-topic, I suppose I could use these potions to get my 10 non-vet characters up to vet rank more quickly, but as I'm somewhat of a completionist, I do all quests and stuff in each zone with them anyway (well, sometimes I skip some world bosses, dolmens, and group dungeons, but at a minimum I always discover them, and I complete absolutely everything else), so by the time I hit the last zone of an alliance I always end up enough over-leveled that I start running into quests and enemies that are more than 5 levels below me.

Lifsteinn · April 2015

I loved that you heared the community about those potions, I agree with their existence in-game and don't think they are any kind of "Pay To Win".

But you really need to clarify and change that description.

Jakx · April 2015

Vet experience is a terribly slow and painful experience. I'm sure they will want to monetize that portion of the GRIND but if not here is your notice to do so. Thats the make or break part for anybody new to this game. They get to vet level now and are like... "nah". True story.

Snit · April 2015

I wanted pots to help get alts from VR1 to VR14. Level 1 to Level 50 is already pretty easy.

So... more stuff I won't buy.

Emma_Overload · April 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

domenthechief wrote: »

I'm glad they listened to the community.

Me too.

newtinmpls wrote: »

What does "per event" mean?

Unsure... I'm guessing they plan on some sort of mini events on a regular basis, but that's all it is: a guess. This sounds like a good compromise between helping new players catch up to hit the veteran ranks (and once removed, level cap) but not compromising the balance of the game by allowing champ xp to be affected.

IN other words , you're happy they made an XP potion no one will buy. I don't see anything here worth paying for... heck, I don't even understand the tooltip.

c0rp · April 2015

I wonder how much longer before the grinders are so far ahead of everyone, that these same people who think boosters are p2w and so against them, will be begging for a way to close the gap.

DDuke · April 2015

Well, I just decided to renew subscription.

I'm happy they made the right decision about these.

DDuke · April 2015

c0rp wrote: »

I wonder how much longer before the grinders are so far ahead of everyone, that these same people who think boosters are p2w and so against them, will be begging for a way to close the gap.

Nothing would prevent the grinders from using them as well, such is the way of life.

Emma_Overload · April 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

You sweet lemmings focus on a totally unimportant Exp-Item, while the whole CP-system is somethat unfair (and you should complain about this!) and people are already running around with 400+ CP
While a PvP-powergamer (4-8 hours/d) is happy to have half of this CP, other guys are farming the "right" (not bug-abusing!) PvE spots for 20+ CP per day.

I really don't know what to say, everything that has nothing to do with CP-gain is uninteresting for me by a laaarge margin.
A CP-potion would have been good. Or just wish the game publisher would offer us "sincerity in form of informations": GIVE us player numbers / give us class statistics (also most-played class/main char) / give us CP-stats! (open your eyes lemmings! ^^)

This is exactly the kind of hysterical hyperbole that's been jacking up this game with ridiculous nerfs since launch day. NOBODY is getting "20+ CP per day". If you can prove otherwise, why don't YOU do it and show us a screenshot of your uber build?

Psychobunni · April 2015

I think this pot is hilariously funny as 1-50 is easy mode leveling wise....who would even buy this? rofl

Maybe its ZOS misleading data miners? I can't think of the logic behind this, except to add another useless item to the store...

DDuke · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

You sweet lemmings focus on a totally unimportant Exp-Item, while the whole CP-system is somethat unfair (and you should complain about this!) and people are already running around with 400+ CP
While a PvP-powergamer (4-8 hours/d) is happy to have half of this CP, other guys are farming the "right" (not bug-abusing!) PvE spots for 20+ CP per day.

I really don't know what to say, everything that has nothing to do with CP-gain is uninteresting for me by a laaarge margin.
A CP-potion would have been good. Or just wish the game publisher would offer us "sincerity in form of informations": GIVE us player numbers / give us class statistics (also most-played class/main char) / give us CP-stats! (open your eyes lemmings! ^^)

This is exactly the kind of hysterical hyperbole that's been jacking up this game with ridiculous nerfs since launch day. NOBODY is getting "20+ CP per day". If you can prove otherwise, why don't YOU do it and show us a screenshot of your uber build?

Theoretically, you could get 30-40 CP per day by grinding goblins (800k/hour proven xp), so I wouldn't be surprised at someone gaining 20 of them daily.

Emma_Overload · April 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

You sweet lemmings focus on a totally unimportant Exp-Item, while the whole CP-system is somethat unfair (and you should complain about this!) and people are already running around with 400+ CP
While a PvP-powergamer (4-8 hours/d) is happy to have half of this CP, other guys are farming the "right" (not bug-abusing!) PvE spots for 20+ CP per day.

I really don't know what to say, everything that has nothing to do with CP-gain is uninteresting for me by a laaarge margin.
A CP-potion would have been good. Or just wish the game publisher would offer us "sincerity in form of informations": GIVE us player numbers / give us class statistics (also most-played class/main char) / give us CP-stats! (open your eyes lemmings! ^^)

This is exactly the kind of hysterical hyperbole that's been jacking up this game with ridiculous nerfs since launch day. NOBODY is getting "20+ CP per day". If you can prove otherwise, why don't YOU do it and show us a screenshot of your uber build?

Theoretically, you could get 30-40 CP per day by grinding goblins (800k/hour proven xp), so I wouldn't be surprised at someone gaining 20 of them daily.

I've seen people get 800k/hour while enlightened, I get about 500k/hour just killing bandits in the RIft. But unenlightened? I just don't believe it. When I checked out those Cyrodiil delves, the goblins didn't respawn nearly as fast as people were saying.

You could be right, though. Maybe I just found the wrong goblins, LOL.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · April 2015

Fissh wrote: »

The better solution is to just make CP gain begin at level ONE. Period. 3600 to earn, it won't hurt a thing. It also gives people that much more of pool when they reach max level and want to do Trials. Even though Trials are absolutely pointless except for fun (only fun though if you havent been doing the same ones of a year).

Have you looked at the amount of XP you need to reach VR1? have you worked out how very small the number of CPs you'd get would be?

I don't disagree with your idea but we're not talking about removing the massive disparity, merely making a barely noticeable dent.

Bodycounter · April 2015

Meh, still levling my first character and this will be a hard decision for me. On one hand i want to get higher level as fast as possible, on the other hand i want to do all quests and storlylines.

nimander99 · April 2015

Wow... im utterly shocked, what a completely worthless exp pot

Seriously who is going to buy that... the only reason I was going to come back and play pre-content drop was if I could use a exp pot to aid grinding CP's. Guess ill keep playing forums until the end of summer.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

vovus69 wrote: »

This is useless stuff. 1-50 levels are too easy. I hope they will make something like that for VR levels... Will see.
Btw, what is the price of this crap?

I hope they don't. I leveled two characters up to V14 without it. So can you.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

nastuug wrote: »

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

And look at it this way. The faster you can get a char to vet, the faster you can CP farm and benefit from the bonuses. This option will at least give people like me who buys the Membership to spend those Crown point on the potion so I can just play normally and do story while gaining exp at a fast rate and avoid doing that boring "CRAB GRINDDDDD" that is obviously going to be nerfed in the future.

"What about Vet exp?" TBH, VET exp isn't that hard to get if you grind but no one wants to grind. We want to gain 100k every 10 minutes from just doing quests and using the least amount of effort but you can't diss people that madgrind as well. People that grind hard like me can get a vet level in about 2 hours of grinding solo. (Not a hyperbole. I timed a certain location once with templar and I was able to get 7.5k exp a minute with huge gold gain but it only works for lower level because the mobs are V1 so I decide to stop and continued the story until I can find a new location.) There's probably even better location to make it even faster and that is where I will be spending my time at.

So it's OK to grind levels as long as it's done within your standards, right? Good to know.

As opposed to having it handed it to you?

Yinmaigao · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

vovus69 wrote: »

This is useless stuff. 1-50 levels are too easy. I hope they will make something like that for VR levels... Will see.
Btw, what is the price of this crap?

I hope they don't. I leveled two characters up to V14 without it. So can you.

Using the "I did it, so you should too" as your whole basis of argument is condescending and pointless.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

vovus69 wrote: »

This is useless stuff. 1-50 levels are too easy. I hope they will make something like that for VR levels... Will see.
Btw, what is the price of this crap?

I hope they don't. I leveled two characters up to V14 without it. So can you.

Using the "I did it, so you should too" as your whole basis of argument is condescending and pointless.

How so? I'm telling you it can be done. At least twice. Maybe three times, I just have no desire to do it again.

DDuke · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

You sweet lemmings focus on a totally unimportant Exp-Item, while the whole CP-system is somethat unfair (and you should complain about this!) and people are already running around with 400+ CP
While a PvP-powergamer (4-8 hours/d) is happy to have half of this CP, other guys are farming the "right" (not bug-abusing!) PvE spots for 20+ CP per day.

I really don't know what to say, everything that has nothing to do with CP-gain is uninteresting for me by a laaarge margin.
A CP-potion would have been good. Or just wish the game publisher would offer us "sincerity in form of informations": GIVE us player numbers / give us class statistics (also most-played class/main char) / give us CP-stats! (open your eyes lemmings! ^^)

This is exactly the kind of hysterical hyperbole that's been jacking up this game with ridiculous nerfs since launch day. NOBODY is getting "20+ CP per day". If you can prove otherwise, why don't YOU do it and show us a screenshot of your uber build?

Theoretically, you could get 30-40 CP per day by grinding goblins (800k/hour proven xp), so I wouldn't be surprised at someone gaining 20 of them daily.

I've seen people get 800k/hour while enlightened, I get about 500k/hour just killing bandits in the RIft. But unenlightened? I just don't believe it. When I checked out those Cyrodiil delves, the goblins didn't respawn nearly as fast as people were saying.

You could be right, though. Maybe I just found the wrong goblins, LOL.

Goblins are definitely 800k unenlightened.

I spent a week farming them about 5 hours a day and earned between 8-12 CPs/day (at 225 CPs right now). Someone spending double the time could easily earn 20 CPs/day.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO · April 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Using the "I did it, so you should too" as your whole basis of argument is condescending and pointless.

It's not really about "I did it too so should you."

It's more about the Rate of return and planning. If you plan is poor then of course the result will be poor. If you can't even calculate the amount of exp, quest dones and stuffs explored within a certain amount of hour, that is a poor investment and you can't blame the game for being "Too hard to grind". It's your planning that needs work.

I don't play at optimal rate. My rate is average at best (420k exp) compared to 800k exp per hour when I grind+ quest at the same time at VR 5. If you're running around killing mobs that are too tough to be worth killing for optimal exp, skipping everything with "Grinding is lolwaste and stupid" mentality or killing mobs that give no exp, that's not the game's fault. That's your fault.

The gap between a good plan and a bad plan will be there. If the rate was boosted 2-3x for the bad plan, the good plan will profit 2-3x as much as well. The gap is still there so I guess the next thing to be changed is to nerf the good plans and buff the bad plans?

Jules · April 2015

Srsly- thank god.

Had they made them affect CP, the game would have been totally unbalanced. Not sure why they made them not affect vet ranks though. If anything, 1-50 isn't so bad. It's vet ranks that are torturous.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO · April 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

The better solution is to just make CP gain begin at level ONE. Period. 3600 to earn, it won't hurt a thing. It also gives people that much more of pool when they reach max level and want to do Trials. Even though Trials are absolutely pointless except for fun (only fun though if you havent been doing the same ones of a year).

Have you looked at the amount of XP you need to reach VR1? have you worked out how very small the number of CPs you'd get would be?

I don't disagree with your idea but we're not talking about removing the massive disparity, merely making a barely noticeable dent.

Actually, what will happen is that someone will just crab grind 10 to V5 (abusing level 49) with that pot in half a day. I certainly would if the crab grind isn't nerfed and CP can be gained from level 1. I might even purchase 2 account, abuse 2 client with one at a super high level just to get me zooming all the way to crab before I begin soloing with something like puncturing sweep Templar.

Jules · April 2015

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

The better solution is to just make CP gain begin at level ONE. Period. 3600 to earn, it won't hurt a thing. It also gives people that much more of pool when they reach max level and want to do Trials. Even though Trials are absolutely pointless except for fun (only fun though if you havent been doing the same ones of a year).

Have you looked at the amount of XP you need to reach VR1? have you worked out how very small the number of CPs you'd get would be?

I don't disagree with your idea but we're not talking about removing the massive disparity, merely making a barely noticeable dent.

Actually, what will happen is that someone will just crab grind 10 to V5 (abusing level 49) with that pot in half a day. I certainly would if the crab grind isn't nerfed and CP can be gained from level 1. I might even purchase 2 account, abuse 2 client with one at a super high level just to get me zooming all the way to crab before I begin soloing with something like puncturing sweep Templar.

I think crab grind was nerfed.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

Here's what you do. Make a friend and go do some dungeon grinding in Cyrodiil. I know the first part sounds hard, but it's really not.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO · April 2015

Jules wrote: »

I think crab grind was nerfed.

My last crab grind was a week ago though and it was still great. Haven't gotten a chance to go there again yet but it was 1.2k exp a kill easily going for 20k exp a minute (1.2m an hour = 3 champion point) unless they fixed it really recently but it's not really in the patch note.

nastuug · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO wrote: »

And look at it this way. The faster you can get a char to vet, the faster you can CP farm and benefit from the bonuses. This option will at least give people like me who buys the Membership to spend those Crown point on the potion so I can just play normally and do story while gaining exp at a fast rate and avoid doing that boring "CRAB GRINDDDDD" that is obviously going to be nerfed in the future.

"What about Vet exp?" TBH, VET exp isn't that hard to get if you grind but no one wants to grind. We want to gain 100k every 10 minutes from just doing quests and using the least amount of effort but you can't diss people that madgrind as well. People that grind hard like me can get a vet level in about 2 hours of grinding solo. (Not a hyperbole. I timed a certain location once with templar and I was able to get 7.5k exp a minute with huge gold gain but it only works for lower level because the mobs are V1 so I decide to stop and continued the story until I can find a new location.) There's probably even better location to make it even faster and that is where I will be spending my time at.

So it's OK to grind levels as long as it's done within your standards, right? Good to know.

As opposed to having it handed it to you?

I didn't say, or even imply, that. I'm not opposed to grinding, but ZOS appears to have mixed feelings about it. When major grind spots are found, they are usually smacked with the nerfbat. Clearly the game was designed around questing, however the same "working as intended" quests take an absolutely silly amount of time to gain VR with.

It's the position of labeling the game as an oxymoron in regards to wanting you to quest but hardly making it worth the time... to quest.