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In the end Champion System will become unbalanced
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sagitter✭✭✭✭✭RainfeatherUK wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »Players who play more than others will become more powerful
Isn't that normal? You put your time and effort to it and you will be more powerful.
Seems people want everyone to be equal no matter have they put 2 days or 2 years of their life into it.
People expect equality to such a degree, they forget about the work and time of others. Ultimately turning every game into an easymode festival of pointlessness that bores everybody. Even themselves.
In the early days of MMO's we played with player rank ladders for class, everyone knew who put the work in and it was a totally different environment. Effort should be rewarded. These days its neutered so nobody gets upset.
What you have is a result of self-entitlement and people having an unwillingness to accept that time is the real investment. They'll try and side step everything in the name of 'I have other commitments, so give me everything now - or im gone', but really they just cant handle someone being better unless they work hard.
Of course they'll say 'its a game not a job' - but an MMO is more than that. Its the nature of people that counts.
It puts companies in a difficult position. Since the mass market is filled with like minded players now. That money talks and they pander to it.
Is it right? No. For me I believe that where you invest your greatest effort, you should receive your greatest reward. Hell they even teach that at Church.
The world is just too afraid to tell people to GTFO anymore. Pathetic really.
+++++++1 agreee, i m really so pissed about whiners or ppl that want easy mode things.
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Flynch✭✭✭✭New players have more content to gain their CP - so in theory they will earn those CP faster than those who have already burnt through it prior to the CPs being introduced.. Besides, it's a diminishing returns system. The same principle applies to EvE-Online and that game thrives on it.0 -
Kas✭✭✭✭✭since this is an mmo and mmo's eventually want fresh players, i'm pretty sure that there will be a catch-up machenic. the easiest (probably not the best) thing i can think of is making new (dlc) content the new endgame. not only in terms of how hard the content is, how good drops are, but also in terms of experience earned.
grinding 3600CP requires a CRAZY amount of time. even the most hardcore player i know are currently around 250 - 300pts. And those grind through entire nights equip and bulds specifically tailored towards grinding efficiently.
if they release this summer, that will allow people to earn CP twice as fast, people will definitly catch up.
further, i don't think the "long term progression" of the CSystem has to be for all over ESO's lifetime. Why not add another dimension of progression in about a year? Could take ages again. In 2020, getting all CPs will be something new players can do quickly while 5% on the way through 2020's progression system@bbu - AD/EU
Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
+ many others0 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭RainfeatherUK wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »Players who play more than others will become more powerful
Isn't that normal? You put your time and effort to it and you will be more powerful.
Seems people want everyone to be equal no matter have they put 2 days or 2 years of their life into it.
People expect equality to such a degree, they forget about the work and time of others. Ultimately turning every game into an easymode festival of pointlessness that bores everybody. Even themselves.
In the early days of MMO's we played with player rank ladders for class, everyone knew who put the work in and it was a totally different environment. Effort should be rewarded. These days its neutered so nobody gets upset.
What you have is a result of self-entitlement and people having an unwillingness to accept that time is the real investment. They'll try and side step everything in the name of 'I have other commitments, so give me everything now - or im gone', but really they just cant handle someone being better unless they work hard.
Of course they'll say 'its a game not a job' - but an MMO is more than that. Its the nature of people that counts.
It puts companies in a difficult position. Since the mass market is filled with like minded players now. That money talks and they pander to it.
Is it right? No. For me I believe that where you invest your greatest effort, you should receive your greatest reward. Hell they even teach that at Church.
The world is just too afraid to tell people to GTFO anymore. Pathetic really.
The issue you are clearly missing is the fact of balance.
How do you balance a game for the new person who has just started playing and has nothing and the person who plays everyday and has all the points possible. The game is either to hard for the new player or too easy for the veteran player!
either way you produce a game which new players do not continue with or veteran players find too easy and become bored....
And they teach nothing at church just lie!
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ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »Players who play more than others will become more powerful
Isn't that normal? You put your time and effort to it and you will be more powerful.
Seems people want everyone to be equal no matter have they put 2 days or 2 years of their life into it.
I know right....those pesky productive members of society should never have a chance to keep up with the people who can play more then 8 hours a day.
followed by:ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »Players who play more than others will become more powerful
Isn't that normal? You put your time and effort to it and you will be more powerful.
Seems people want everyone to be equal no matter have they put 2 days or 2 years of their life into it.
I know right....those pesky productive members of society should never have a chance to keep up with the people who can play more then 8 hours a day.
if their time is better served outside of a game, shouldn't they stick to what they are good at? that's assuming they are "productive members of society" which is a relative term. kinda like saying dedicated gamers are a "productive member of society" within the game.... you do realize it is a social game right?
Is that why there is so much text scrolling by the lower left side of my screen? I had no clue....Thank you for clearing it up. I certainly wish I could sit around all day playing video games but at some point I had to move out on my own and pay my own bills.
I have nothing against anyone who plays the game but I don't think players should hold other players back simply because they may have more or less time to play.
the bold highlights your sarcasm, which leads to the understanding that you have something against individuals who play 8 hours a day. get back on topic, your a more "productive member of society" when you aren't being a crusader fighting good versus evil in a video game forum, using oxymoronic arguments and terms based on relativity.
no, there should be no cap to CPs.
yes, i am selfish because i expect just rewards for time and effort invested
no, i don't care if you hate my "selfish nature"
yes, i do think its ironic that you say your selfishness trumps anothers selfishness
please, feel free to block me, ignore me, and discontinue any involvement with my life- you will be doing us both a great service.
Touched a nerve...... I don't want anyone held back I want you to have your advantage I think you deserve it. What happens tho as you gain so much of one that you will run out of new people willing to play because of it. But that's OK I guess as you stated it's selfishness.
you're so right. AA killed EQ, and rift was decimated by planar attunement...
Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on April 22, 2015 10:21AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
RainfeatherUK✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »SNIP
The answer you are looking for is design depth. The creation of systems to prevent overlap of players of too high a level or experience range. Aion and other games didn't achieve perfection, but they had area's and systems designed to segregate players in PvP and otherwise to stem their gear curve advantage and level. Making it more even.
I surely believe, after talking with so many people over the last few months on the run up to camelot unchained, that a lot can be done to make things fair for everyone. But its a vast topic, depending on a persons perspective.
At its very core, being new is a disadvantage. You have to catch up to people who have already gained experience and invested time. In my hobbies in real life, these were actually some of my best times. Where I learned the most - and everything was new and exciting.
Being less than someone else, for me is a good thing. It gives me something to aim for. Something to aspire to. It's likely that gives me a unique angle when looking into games.
No not everyone has the same angle or skill range. Its why many games create systems like mentoring new players (that often has in game rewards) or difficulty tiers in dungeons. Giving a variable difficulty for all.
There is so much to 'balance' that a post on it would make a whole book. Nobody said it was easy. That doesn't make the sentiment any less valid. A game should cater to all walks of players, as hard as that may be - its the right thing. Not just aiming to the lowest common denominator because its easy.
I look up at the long term players with respect. In doing so - you'll reach that point yourself someday.
As for your final comment. Christianity is a big part of my life. Its a personal choice and I've never found my faith to be a lie, despite having completed my science degree at University and traveling around the world. So I'd prefer if you didn't drop blunt slurs on it
I likely shouldn't have raised the original point. That aside, please me more considerate about my beliefs.
Edited by RainfeatherUK on April 22, 2015 10:26AM1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭New players have more content to gain their CP - so in theory they will earn those CP faster than those who have already burnt through it prior to the CPs being introduced.. Besides, it's a diminishing returns system. The same principle applies to EvE-Online and that game thrives on it.
Forgetting most established or older players have multiple alts. They can do the quests, grind for 100% and complete exp rewarding achievements on multiple characters. They gain CP at the same speed as the new guy as soon as they log on their lower level alt, actually even faster thanks to the CP they already have.
By the time they managed to grind 3-6 more characters up to VR14 for loads of CP, I'm sure the penalty at cap will be gone. There will be new content and no more VR ranks, meaning everyone can grind CP same speed.
I think it's a really *** and short-sighted design by ZoS. It discourages people from playing their favourite main VR14 character. It rewards low level no-life grinding. But still not helping new players to catch up much.0 -
The_Saint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭New players have more content to gain their CP - so in theory they will earn those CP faster than those who have already burnt through it prior to the CPs being introduced.. Besides, it's a diminishing returns system. The same principle applies to EvE-Online and that game thrives on it.
Forgetting most established or older players have multiple alts. They can do the quests, grind for 100% and complete exp rewarding achievements on multiple characters. They gain CP at the same speed as the new guy as soon as they log on their lower level alt, actually even faster thanks to the CP they already have.
By the time they managed to grind 3-6 more characters up to VR14 for loads of CP, I'm sure the penalty at cap will be gone. There will be new content and no more VR ranks, meaning everyone can grind CP same speed.
I think it's a really *** and short-sighted design by ZoS. It discourages people from playing their favourite main VR14 character. It rewards low level no-life grinding. But still not helping new players to catch up much.
I think they can make XP steps for different CP level some day.
Something like: you need 100k xp for a CP for the first 100Points then 200k till you have 200 and so on.
So really new player can get closer but/and never reach older when they invest the same time and have the same style of playing/grinding etc
Edited by The_Saint on April 22, 2015 12:38PM0 -
golfer.dub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Of course they'll say 'its a game not a job' - but an MMO is more than that. Its the nature of people that counts.
It really doesn't run any deeper than that.
How inexcusable of someone to not spend all their free time as a second nine-to-five grind in order to compete, when they could just buy another competitive game that starts everyone on equal footing.
Should time put into a game be rewarded? Yeah, I agree with that sentiment, but what is really being rewarded is the effort put in to train, not the exact amount of time itself. You're rewarded by becoming better at the game, not by becoming "better" at it in the form of perks.
Speaking of the "easy to the point of boredome" argument, isn't that what giant gaps between players create? It isn't exactly exciting owning players and NPC's of a vastly lower level.The world is just too afraid to tell people to GTFO anymore. Pathetic really.That aside, please me more considerate about my beliefs.
What is this, special pleading? No, I think I'll just tell you to GTFO anyways.
I'll be considerate when you stop insinuating that anyone who disagrees with you is an entitled crybaby (i.e. when you show some consideration yourself).Edited by golfer.dub17_ESO on April 22, 2015 2:57PM2 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭I´ve played one year hardcore (around 100 days played) pvp in ESO, not caring about undaunted grind or legendary gear. I always felt able to overcome the difference in power with skill.
Now, due to limited time, I am already 100-200 CP behind the top guys. Within a few weeks of CPs being introduced. I haven`t calculated the difference in power, but I can certainly feel it already.
Is that the reward for investing huge amounts of time in a game? Where now even new players surpass me with ease, since i had all quests completed prior to 1.6.
I feel slightly cheated...Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy3 -
drackonir✭✭✭Arguing that new players are not competitive in PvP is a pile of rubbish. New players do not need to participate in veteran campaigns. New Players have non-vet campaigns dedicated to them.
I agree that it can be a significant difference between having 100 CP or 1200CP but there is way less difference when you compare 1200 and 2400."Even Gods dislike the absolute, for it stinks of something larger than themselves."
―Sotha Sil1 -
Kurimugann✭✭✭My main issue really is how some people become when they reach high levels and/or become popular.
I am fairly sure that if factions could chat with one another, there would be war in Cyrodil's chatbox caused by the "poisoned candies in the candy bowl"
High level people tend to be cocky, insulting, they tend to treat lower level people like vermin, and no one likes that, I sure don't. If you beat them, they say you cheated, if you lose to them they say you should quit, give up, that you're loser despite them having maybe less of a life than you. Soon you get all his followers against you, you come across more people like them until you think that the bowl has nothing but poisoned candies.
And that is why low level people wants to catch up the older higher level ones as soon as possible. I'd really wish it would not come to this, but I've picked too many poisoned candies to trust maxed level people to be gentle to those trying to catch up.2 -
golfer.dub17_ESO✭✭✭✭what the heck is champion points
Champion Points are* points you earn through gaining experience as a Veteran, that can be spent in various ways to give you various buffs.
There are 3600 total in the game, each requiring 400k experience to unlock. Once per day, one will only require 100k experience.Edited by golfer.dub17_ESO on April 22, 2015 3:36PM0 -
Flynch✭✭✭✭New players have more content to gain their CP - so in theory they will earn those CP faster than those who have already burnt through it prior to the CPs being introduced.. Besides, it's a diminishing returns system. The same principle applies to EvE-Online and that game thrives on it.
Forgetting most established or older players have multiple alts. They can do the quests, grind for 100% and complete exp rewarding achievements on multiple characters. They gain CP at the same speed as the new guy as soon as they log on their lower level alt, actually even faster thanks to the CP they already have.
By the time they managed to grind 3-6 more characters up to VR14 for loads of CP, I'm sure the penalty at cap will be gone. There will be new content and no more VR ranks, meaning everyone can grind CP same speed.
I think it's a really *** and short-sighted design by ZoS. It discourages people from playing their favourite main VR14 character. It rewards low level no-life grinding. But still not helping new players to catch up much.
Ah yeah true - I didn't take into account that you can gain CP through alts. Personally i'd have liked the CP system to be based around 'fluff' progression. Things like fishing speed or being able to spot lockboxes on the map or something.0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭BugCollector wrote: »Players who play more than others will become more powerful, even with the diminishing returns. There should be a cap for the amount of CP points you can earn. Say 300.
WHAT!@? You mean removing VRs won't magically make everyone equal and eliminate player separation? Shocking. Shocking I tell you! I'll alert the media.0
