I think, at least class skills should be no depended from STA/MAG. Every class skill must be usable without damage reduction. As a NB, for example, i want use "Consealed Weapon" in my Stam build. But why this skill do much less damage than the "Surprise Attack"? This is artificial restriction, not the balance and build diversity.

@jmoore59 they removed soft caps because they are fundamentally incompatible with the champion system.

Resipsa131 wrote: »

jmoore59 wrote: »

Why did they remove soft caps?

To create more build diversity, I guess?

It had the opposite effect.

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Isn't that more of a function of lack of morphs than scaling to magicka/stamina? I'm assuming you want concealed weapon for the speed buff? If that's the case leave it on your bar and use another ability to initiate, or use surprise attack and wear 5 pieces of night mother to move around quickly in stealth. In sort you can still accomplish the same things you just have to work around.

With only 5 buttons space is a premium.

I see no reason why damage cannot be based solely on weapon damage and spell damage stats along with the weapon's actual damage rating. The resources would then dictate how much can be cast before running out; allowing for more build diversity. The set gear could be adjusted slightly to accommodate this new paradigm. In regards to other balance issues we really never should have had classes in this game to begin with.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The resources would then dictate how much can be cast before running out; allowing for more build diversity.

Brilliant words, i fully agreed.

They do in advertently pigeon hole you into certain things to be any kind of effective. I would love to be a stealthy spell sword. But to be effective with magic I have to use light armor instead of medium. To be effective with swords I have ot use medium armor instead of light. While it can be done with medium. I wouldn't stand a fighting chance against most encounters unless I was wearing light.

I remember before the game released ZOS said it was going to be a TES game first and an MMO 2nd. Half the reason TES games are so good (IMO) is that you are free to build a character the way you want it and be effective. I knew it wasn't going to be a TES game as soon as they said they was going to implement classes. Oh, well, it's still fun and enjoyable but it's not an Elder Scrolls game. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls setting.

AngersRevenge wrote: »

I remember before the game released ZOS said it was going to be a TES game first and an MMO 2nd. Half the reason TES games are so good (IMO) is that you are free to build a character the way you want it and be effective. I knew it wasn't going to be a TES game as soon as they said they was going to implement classes. Oh, well, it's still fun and enjoyable but it's not an Elder Scrolls game. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls setting.

You must have only played Skyrim then.

From Arena until Oblivion classes were always in the game. It's just as time has gone on, they emphasized them less in favor of the "custom class" option most people were picking.

That being said, judging build diversity by the rule of the single player games is a bit ludicrous; considering you can slaughter whole towns, kill epic beasts and arguably beat the game all before even hitting level 10 in most installments.

I honestly feel that ESO more captures the spirit of Arena, Daggerfall, or Morrowind, then later entries into the series. The fact that you can be a sneaky assassin class who heals through magic is more of the genre breaking goodness that feels like classic ES.

More on topic: This is why I feel that while soft caps forced people to be a bit more diverse in their builds for fear of diminishing returns, their removal and heightening of the damage ceilings offered deeper more rewarding specialization. Granted this comes at the cost of going hybrid and some older build diversity, but it ultimately it will allow for more unique build types in the future once they finish converting sets and other bonuses over.

Managing resources as purely a pool for number of times you can cast a spell or spam an attack puts us right back to stacking health.

• It means that getting over 3K spell power/weapon power is no longer possible.
• It means food would actually be worth less than drink.
• It would widen the already significant racial gap between racial passives
• It would also make PVP a bit more boring since people will once again run around with S&S while throwing spells...

I also don't think there needs to be a 3rd resource to add in weapon/spell power due to that unnecessarily complicating things. Instead I'd rather suggest that Weapons and armors get more interesting bonuses to increase viability of hybrid or even cross builds.

Wouldn't it be cool to have a set bonus that trades your current spell power for weapon damage or vice versa?
Wouldn't it be cool if you could use your magicka to avoid/absorb/mitigate damages? [shields already do this]
Wouldn't it be cool having your physical weapon builds augmented by enchantment spells that scale from magicka to enhance your weapon damage?

There are a lot of things they could add in incrementally, and some of them look like they might be coming with the spell crafting system. However I think removing the scaling from your pool is both a huge step back and ultimately lowers build diversity in the long run. I'm saying this as someone who plays a hybrid tank (which I'm doing my job well on, but agree that getting good dps even on solo content has become annoyingly difficult).

Nutronic wrote: »

You must have only played Skyrim then.

Actually I have been playing since Morrowind. While they made have said "class" it wasn't really a class. It was only for starting abilities. You could still be any "class" and choose any ability. In ESO a Dragon Knight can't use Piercing Jabs from the Templar. In TES games any "class" can use any ability. So in essence, there was no class.

AngersRevenge wrote: »

Nutronic wrote: »

You must have only played Skyrim then.

Actually I have been playing since Morrowind. While they made have said "class" it wasn't really a class. It was only for starting abilities. You could still be any "class" and choose any ability. In ESO a Dragon Knight can't use Piercing Jabs from the Templar. In TES games any "class" can use any ability. So in essence, there was no class.

Classes in Morrowind + were as much of an RP choice as playing an Orc Sorcerer in ESO. I'm not disputing that it didn't restrict you from abilities or passives, but it automatically selected your major and minor abilities with the intention of defining your play style. It's rather ironic this had the opposite effect desired since it made much more sense to pick skills you wouldn't use too much as major skills and work on other skills instead to have a stronger more well rounded character.

To be perfectly honest, there aren't really any abilities in single ES games (excluding Skyrim) that compare to things like "Wrecking blow" or "Poison shot". Even in Oblivion most abilities unlocked behaved more like passive effects that compared to ESO you just put points into. To be honest, a better game to compare it to would be something like Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard or Oblivion Mobile where you HAD to be a either a class or character and play in a style that was dictated.

All I'm saying is that this game incorporates the key principle of class diversification that defines an ES game. As in you can pick a Knight, but be a spell caster, or vice versa (well, that's debatably viable at the moment).

I also joined in at Morrowind, but I've gone back to look at and enjoy the previous entries because it's important to know where this franchise came from to better predict where it's going.