There should be NO scaling from MAG/STA!

Xerger

I started the game thinking wow you can play as anything and do anything, I can be an archer casting spells wearing plate or a 2H wielding warrior in cloth armor. I was SHOCKED to find out that damage scales from MAG/STA. Why shocked? Because that second I realized in my head that as a damage dealer:

For optimal damage in PvE end-game and to a certain extent in other areas of the game:
1. MAG/STA regen is worthless
2. HEALTH is worthless
3. HEALTH regen is worthless
4. 7 out of 9 armor traits are worthless
3. NOT going either full STA or full MAG is worthless
4. Using any damaging skill that uses the OTHER resource is worthless
5. Heavy armor is worthless
6. Being a Hybrid is worthless
7. Being a melee fighter wearing cloth is worthless
8. Being a caster wearing leather is worthless
9. A ton of enchants and potions are worthless
10. There are 99% less viable builds than I thought

IF damage didn't scale from max MAG/STA we would of course have harder time leveling cause everything would need more than 3 hits to kill and bosses in zones and public dungeons would ACTUALLY need 2 or more people. Trials and Dungeons would immedietly become too hard but I think STILL doable, and just the right amount of challenge. TANKS would become more viable cause you wouldn't be able to plow through everything with INSANE DPS.

All Abilities that don't do damage would STILL scale from Magicka/Stamina or Health, but damage abilities would NOT double dip into damage AND weapon power. There would still be many issues to fix and balance but at least we would have LOGIC, none of the other TES games had damage scaling with magicka and stamina, cause no other games had abilities like this game but still, that's not the point, the point is VARIETY!

We would have these options:
1. Option to pick any armor we want based on what resource we like the most and mix/match (Mana/Health/Stamina)
2. Option to decide how much we dip into Magicka and how much we dip into Stamina. Hybrids are not just 50/50, they are everything that is not full 100, be it 5/95 or 70/30.
3. Option to pick any skill from any class tree and we would be able to pick STAMINA morphs even if we were mainly magicka if morph was THAT good.
4. Option to think HMMMM do I need more BURST by having high resource bars, OR more consistent DPS by having more regen and cost reduction, or maybe I take some survivability/utility stat, cause I feel that my resource bars and regen are on a comfortable level for optimal DPS.
5. Option to pick the Weapon you like, and NOT pick STAFF cause more than 80% of your class skills scale with Magicka. I wouldn't even mind picking staff if staves weren't just actual sticks that are just sticks, STICKS!!! Come on! (Only dogs like sticks)

I do understand that what I wish will never be. But it's a big deal for me, I don't want to be a dress-wearing, stick-waving muscular orc with a mohawk, if that is what I will be forced to be to see the end-game content. So I was thinking to put this game on a shelf for a month or two, unless you all convince me that MAG/STA scaling is a good thing, that it would be a WORSE game if what I described was true.

edit: I clarified that I was talking MAINLY about the PvE DPS, also please do understand that by using the word "worthless" I don't mean it in a literal sense, I mean that it's not optimal, or that you sacrifice way too much damage

golfer.dub17_ESO

Pretty sure Magicka and Stamina don't effect damage in the singleplayer games, I don't believe they should here either.

Once you start scaling ability damage off of resource pools, you make spellswording impossible and limit what the player can do.

That said, I think it's far to late to change anything about it now.

Resipsa131

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Pretty sure Magicka and Stamina don't effect damage in the singleplayer games, I don't believe they should here either.

Once you start scaling ability damage off of resource pools, you make spellswording impossible and limit what the player can do.

That said, I think it's far to late to change anything about it now.

You could Max Stamina and use Utility Spells that augment your Weapon Damage and still be a "spellsword". There are a number of "spells" that now scale off of Stamina too!

golfer.dub17_ESO

Resipsa131 wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Pretty sure Magicka and Stamina don't effect damage in the singleplayer games, I don't believe they should here either.

Once you start scaling ability damage off of resource pools, you make spellswording impossible and limit what the player can do.

That said, I think it's far to late to change anything about it now.

You could Max Stamina and use Utility Spells that augment your Weapon Damage and still be a "spellsword". There are a number of "spells" that now scale off of Stamina too!

I'm fully aware of that (in fact that's pretty much mandatory since stamina is so lacking in versatility).

Doesn't relate to the argument at hand.

Stamina morphs do make it somewhat possible, though they don't make any sense and they take away options from magicka builds.

Resipsa131

Your argument was that you couldnt be affective with both weapons and spells but there are so many utility spells that's simply not true, you can and in some cases optimally have stamina builds that use a few spells that cost magicka, and some with stamina morphs that go along with you main damage dealers. Actually for stam nbs most of their damage comes from stamina morphed spells like surprise attack

cavakthestampede

1. Use the opposite resource from your main for utility/buffs

2. Build hybrid

• Min/Maxing isn't actually necessary in this game to be successful. You can min/max at the expense of your survivability, fun, sanity
• Hybrid can still reach decent DPS/Tank/Healing numbers, especially if you are building specifically to provide buffs, debuffs, off-healing in raid or pvp scenarios

3. Respec when you want to play a different style

4. Mix it up with champion points

Animal_Mother

In my option scaling abilities off of stamina and magika has killed hybrids. Yes, I can build a hybrid use stamina for attacks and magicka, but I would never be as effective as a player that specializes in either one. It really gets tough when you have a class shield that requires magicka for activation, scales off of health, and returns damage at melee range (where most weapon skills use stamina).

I don't think giving a morph option to all abilities to use either stamina or magicka isn't the answer.

Khivas_Carrick

cavakthestampede wrote: »

1. Use the opposite resource from your main for utility/buffs

2. Build hybrid

• Min/Maxing isn't actually necessary in this game to be successful. You can min/max at the expense of your survivability, fun, sanity
• Hybrid can still reach decent DPS/Tank/Healing numbers, especially if you are building specifically to provide buffs, debuffs, off-healing in raid or pvp scenarios

3. Respec when you want to play a different style

4. Mix it up with champion points

Jar_Ek

I kinda agree with the op. The current scaling off max stamina or max magicka makes the game incredibly difficult to balance across the board, meaning you end up with a small set of viable options for optimal or quasi-optimal effectiveness. This in turn means that new content will need to be designed for these optimal builds, leaving non optimal builds in the cold... which means that everyone will end up going down the max route eventually.

It also means that PvP has become far more imbalanced as certain builds that take advantage of the scaling are massively powerful and will only become more so with champion points.

However if the scaling was changed to not include a resource stat, but only a weapon or spell power stat, then you get an immediate rebalancing of racials (10% resource no longer becomes king in all situations), many class skills become less op (sorcerers wards for example), and hybrid builds become more viable. This idea may require some reworking of armour (esp light), weapons and set bonuses, but would probably be beneficial overall and especially in the long term.

Baconlad

If it help any you DO get more spell power out of two handed/ dual wield than using a staff for some stupid reason. But yes op I agree with you, although if they do this, then regen vs max mag/ stam would be non exsistent. Regen would be king in ALL situations. Whereas now if you have regen over max magicka then that is a mathematically backed up CHOICE. so like regen is better for tanks, max is better for DPS. Make sense? So as much as I agree with it, I don't think they will do it

Vizier

9 of 10 of the following statements and assertions mean absolutely nothing and are a non-issue. Pure rubbish IMO.

1. MAG/STA regen is worthless
Not true- Either is very beneficial in PvP and I imagine PvE for sustained damage.
2. HEALTH is worthless
What? LOL
3. HEALTH regen is worthless
For some maybe- heals and mitigation kind of over shadow this but that which keeps you alive is not worthless.
4. 7 out of 9 armor traits are worthless
Depends on what you want- absolutely false statement
3. NOT going either full STA or full MAG is worthless
Perhaps the only worthwhile assertion you've made here.
4. Using any damaging skill that uses the OTHER resource is worthless
So what? It's called specialize- This is a non-issue
5. Heavy armor is worthless
Tell that to all the heavies now running around in PvP- False statement
6. Being a Hybrid is worthless
Agian not true- I see hybrid builds in PvP regularly and they are doing well. IMO specializing is better but depends situationally. Sometimes specializing means I'm totally ineffective in certain situations so your assertion carries no water.
7. Being a melee fighter wearing cloth is worthless
Ya, so? It's cloth- no bueno- seriously
8. Being a caster wearing leather is worthless
Seen casters wearing cloth, med and heavy. They seem to like it. Cloth makes more sense but i've seen casters with Heavy armor doing very well too....shrug- What's your point?
9. A ton of enchants and potions are worthless
And a ton are useful- I've used almost every type of potion and they've helped me. Again it depends on your situation. I'm going to stretch a bit here and guess your playstyle is pretty static.
10. There are 99% less viable builds than I thought
Once again. LOL- You have to think about what you put where- With all the possibilities most possible builds are not going to be "viable" or competitive. So what? You think you should be able to randomly pick skills and armor sets and it turn out viable? Again your statement really means nothing here. 99% of the things I could possible do in life probably don't benefit me personally too. Shrug.

golfer.dub17_ESO

4. 7 out of 9 armor traits are worthless
Depends on what you want- absolutely false statement

Exploration and Training have literally no use at end game.
Sturdy is good for throw-away armor used while soloing, but aside from that is pointless to have on your main armor.
Impenetrable isn't that great, and it blocks friendly health crits.
I've seen a few builds that use well-fitted on one or two armor pieces, but never more than that.

Worthless? Not quite, but definitely undesirable compared to traits like infused and divines.

6. Being a Hybrid is worthless
Agian not true- I see hybrid builds in PvP regularly and they are doing well. IMO specializing is better but depends situationally. Sometimes specializing means I'm totally ineffective in certain situations so your assertion carries no water.

#4 and #6 can't both be false.

byrom101b16_ESO

Thank you for independently pointing out number 6 in your list.

This is of course true in PvE. Even in PvP, despite what Vizier states, hybridisation is marginal - providing utilitarian support for the 'big guns' of the main resource the build is using.

But those calling for further hybridisation of classes lack the basic wits to see this issue, no matter how many times you handhold them towards the answer.

What they should be calling for before any hybridisation is precisely what you call for - no resource contribution to damage output.

Then their suggestions might actually work without fracking-up single resource build choice and flexibility.

But... not seeing the wood for the trees is a common theme with the most vocal and dogmatic hybridisation fans, alas.

Of course, what would solve all of this from a purely functional point of view is a conversion of magicka and stamina pools into a single 'power' pool. Then any build would work.

But we would be yet further from the canon of TES, and that is an entirely different can of worms to prise open...

Xerger

Vizier wrote: »

9 of 10 of the following statements and assertions mean absolutely nothing and are a non-issue. Pure rubbish IMO.

1. MAG/STA regen is worthless
Not true- Either is very beneficial in PvP and I imagine PvE for sustained damage.

- I was talking about PvE and in PvE going regen means sacrificing damage because abilitiy damages don't scale with regen.


2. HEALTH is worthless
What? LOL

- For a PvE damage dealer having more health or having more resources AND damage is a no brainer, you go for more damage.


3. HEALTH regen is worthless
For some maybe- heals and mitigation kind of over shadow this but that which keeps you alive is not worthless.

- Again if damages on you were lower (because of no scaling) this stat would immediately become more powerful for keeping you alive.


4. 7 out of 9 armor traits are worthless
Depends on what you want- absolutely false statement

- Damage dealers want more damage and they get it by having either Divine or Infused, but to be honest without scaling Divine would become the only useful trait and 8 out of 9 traits would become worthless xD didn't think about that.


3. NOT going either full STA or full MAG is worthless
Perhaps the only worthwhile assertion you've made here.

- Everything else derives from this really, if I didn't need to go full mag I could take more health, I could take different armor, i could use different spells etc etc.


4. Using any damaging skill that uses the OTHER resource is worthless
So what? It's called specialize- This is a non-issue

- I want the abilities I don't specialize in to do 10% less DPS and give me some utility, NOT do 50% less DPS like we have now.


5. Heavy armor is worthless
Tell that to all the heavies now running around in PvP- False statement

- Well it just means they don't want to get focused, people tend to focus everyone not using heavy. How many damage dealers in heavy armor have you seen in end-game PvE? How many damage dealers in heavy armor have you seen in other MMOs or games in general? It MUST be viable!


6. Being a Hybrid is worthless
Agian not true- I see hybrid builds in PvP regularly and they are doing well. IMO specializing is better but depends situationally. Sometimes specializing means I'm totally ineffective in certain situations so your assertion carries no water.

- Again in PvP anything goes, hard to argue there. But in PvE being a STA DK and still using Green Dragon Blood doesn't make you a hybrid even though it costs mana. Using Molten Whip and Wrecking Blow in the same build does make you a Hybrid and right now it's pointless. If we didn't have MAG/STA scaling it would be viable if you had equal resources you would either cast lava whip or wrecking blow, if you had 80% magicka and 20% stamina you would do 1 wrecking blow and 4 molten whips or any combination of anything else, you would probably do less DPS but not WORTHLESS DPS, and it's not the point, the point is that it would be so cool!


7. Being a melee fighter wearing cloth is worthless
Ya, so? It's cloth- no bueno- seriously

- In ESO wearing cloth indirectly means having LOW melee DPS, because of no synergies with melee abilities, and because medium has all the synergies. Without MAG/STA scaling different armors wouldn't matter THAT much because you would still use magicka and stamina abilities as melee fighter. And as a sidenote "melee and cloth" concept is very popular in fantasy and many people WANT to play warrior-mage archetypes.


8. Being a caster wearing leather is worthless
Seen casters wearing cloth, med and heavy. They seem to like it. Cloth makes more sense but i've seen casters with Heavy armor doing very well too....shrug- What's your point?

- I bet it's one of your PvP examples and like I said in PvP anything goes. Again if you want to do maximum DPS with magicka abilities you MUST use cloth. That makes popular fantasy archetypes such as Arcane Archers not viable compared to optimal "leather" or "caster" builds.


9. A ton of enchants and potions are worthless
And a ton are useful- I've used almost every type of potion and they've helped me. Again it depends on your situation. I'm going to stretch a bit here and guess your play style is pretty static.

- I might have exaggerated with potions and enchants, what I meant to say that when picking potions and enchants it's a no-brainer and you can easily see what will work best for you, if you were a hybrid it wouldn't be the case, it would also stabilize certain inequalities on the market regarding prices. Which are still rather minor to be honest. BUT prices for Kutas and Rekutas would drop, because people would think: "Meh, magicka doesn't give me damage so I might as well do green magicka or health even." so I think it's a good thing.



10. There are 99% less viable builds than I thought
Once again. LOL- You have to think about what you put where- With all the possibilities most possible builds are not going to be "viable" or competitive. So what? You think you should be able to randomly pick skills and armor sets and it turn out viable? Again your statement really means nothing here. 99% of the things I could possible do in life probably don't benefit me personally too. Shrug.

- You are right, if there was no scaling there would STILL be a handful of competative builds, probably as much as we have today, but again you are right only because you said the word "competative". Viable and competative are not the same thing, I am WILLING to sacrifice 10%, even maybe 20% of my potential top DPS, IF I get to play HOW I LIKE, but I don't want to sacrifice a whopping 50% or more. I think I am viable if I do 10% less DPS than the other guy if I bring some utility as a trade-off, but I am obviously not competative. Again I'm talking about PvE competative not PvP, cause competative in PvP means many different things.

Antirob

MAG/STA regen is worthless
HEALTH is worthless
kek
Heavy armor is worthless
kek
Hybird build ill give you that one.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Animal_Mother wrote: »

In my option scaling abilities off of stamina and magika has killed hybrids.

I've been saying that since day 1.

It is better now that both STA and MAG builds are viable, but hybrids have never been optimal, and won't unless scaling is removed.

Khaer

Xerger wrote: »

2. HEALTH is worthless
What? LOL

- For a PvE damage dealer having more health or having more resources AND damage is a no brainer, you go for more damage.

You have some good points in your post, but I agree that this one is wrong. In short, a dead damage dealer does no damage; you need enough health to survive the encounters, but anything beyond the minimum required is a waste. For most builds this means you put some of your resources (attributes, enchants) into health. The majority still go to either Stam or Mag, but investing in Health definitely has a place.

byrom101b16_ESO

Remove the link between resource pool and power.

Redesign each skill to have two decent morphs that use it's original resource and a third which uses the other resource.

90% of builds just became viable... and far more than now, optimal...

PKMN12

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Remove the link between resource pool and power.

Redesign each skill to have two decent morphs that use it's original resource and a third which uses the other resource.

90% of builds just became viable... and far more than now, optimal...

....not true....at all. The only possible way to belive this is to have never played ANY MMO.

The simple fact is, especially thanks to the openness of this system, balance is not only unbelievable, it was stupid to think it was even close to be. The moment they wanted to go for Elder Scroll's open style system was the moment they doomed 90% of all builds to be much worse then the other 10%. an open skill system will ALWAYS fail in an MMO.

The only way you are ever going to be able to really play what you want is for them to have MANY different, solid, classes.

having so much choice in an MMO = most builds will be worthless, thus making the abilility to "choose" completely pointless.

Vizier

Xerger wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

9 of 10 of the following statements and assertions mean absolutely nothing and are a non-issue. Pure rubbish IMO.

1. MAG/STA regen is worthless
Not true- Either is very beneficial in PvP and I imagine PvE for sustained damage.

- I was talking about PvE and in PvE going regen means sacrificing damage because abilitiy damages don't scale with regen.


2. HEALTH is worthless
What? LOL

- For a PvE damage dealer having more health or having more resources AND damage is a no brainer, you go for more damage.


3. HEALTH regen is worthless
For some maybe- heals and mitigation kind of over shadow this but that which keeps you alive is not worthless.

- Again if damages on you were lower (because of no scaling) this stat would immediately become more powerful for keeping you alive.


4. 7 out of 9 armor traits are worthless
Depends on what you want- absolutely false statement

- Damage dealers want more damage and they get it by having either Divine or Infused, but to be honest without scaling Divine would become the only useful trait and 8 out of 9 traits would become worthless xD didn't think about that.


3. NOT going either full STA or full MAG is worthless
Perhaps the only worthwhile assertion you've made here.

- Everything else derives from this really, if I didn't need to go full mag I could take more health, I could take different armor, i could use different spells etc etc.


4. Using any damaging skill that uses the OTHER resource is worthless
So what? It's called specialize- This is a non-issue

- I want the abilities I don't specialize in to do 10% less DPS and give me some utility, NOT do 50% less DPS like we have now.


5. Heavy armor is worthless
Tell that to all the heavies now running around in PvP- False statement

- Well it just means they don't want to get focused, people tend to focus everyone not using heavy. How many damage dealers in heavy armor have you seen in end-game PvE? How many damage dealers in heavy armor have you seen in other MMOs or games in general? It MUST be viable!


6. Being a Hybrid is worthless
Agian not true- I see hybrid builds in PvP regularly and they are doing well. IMO specializing is better but depends situationally. Sometimes specializing means I'm totally ineffective in certain situations so your assertion carries no water.

- Again in PvP anything goes, hard to argue there. But in PvE being a STA DK and still using Green Dragon Blood doesn't make you a hybrid even though it costs mana. Using Molten Whip and Wrecking Blow in the same build does make you a Hybrid and right now it's pointless. If we didn't have MAG/STA scaling it would be viable if you had equal resources you would either cast lava whip or wrecking blow, if you had 80% magicka and 20% stamina you would do 1 wrecking blow and 4 molten whips or any combination of anything else, you would probably do less DPS but not WORTHLESS DPS, and it's not the point, the point is that it would be so cool!


7. Being a melee fighter wearing cloth is worthless
Ya, so? It's cloth- no bueno- seriously

- In ESO wearing cloth indirectly means having LOW melee DPS, because of no synergies with melee abilities, and because medium has all the synergies. Without MAG/STA scaling different armors wouldn't matter THAT much because you would still use magicka and stamina abilities as melee fighter. And as a sidenote "melee and cloth" concept is very popular in fantasy and many people WANT to play warrior-mage archetypes.


8. Being a caster wearing leather is worthless
Seen casters wearing cloth, med and heavy. They seem to like it. Cloth makes more sense but i've seen casters with Heavy armor doing very well too....shrug- What's your point?

- I bet it's one of your PvP examples and like I said in PvP anything goes. Again if you want to do maximum DPS with magicka abilities you MUST use cloth. That makes popular fantasy archetypes such as Arcane Archers not viable compared to optimal "leather" or "caster" builds.


9. A ton of enchants and potions are worthless
And a ton are useful- I've used almost every type of potion and they've helped me. Again it depends on your situation. I'm going to stretch a bit here and guess your play style is pretty static.

- I might have exaggerated with potions and enchants, what I meant to say that when picking potions and enchants it's a no-brainer and you can easily see what will work best for you, if you were a hybrid it wouldn't be the case, it would also stabilize certain inequalities on the market regarding prices. Which are still rather minor to be honest. BUT prices for Kutas and Rekutas would drop, because people would think: "Meh, magicka doesn't give me damage so I might as well do green magicka or health even." so I think it's a good thing.



10. There are 99% less viable builds than I thought
Once again. LOL- You have to think about what you put where- With all the possibilities most possible builds are not going to be "viable" or competitive. So what? You think you should be able to randomly pick skills and armor sets and it turn out viable? Again your statement really means nothing here. 99% of the things I could possible do in life probably don't benefit me personally too. Shrug.

- You are right, if there was no scaling there would STILL be a handful of competative builds, probably as much as we have today, but again you are right only because you said the word "competative". Viable and competative are not the same thing, I am WILLING to sacrifice 10%, even maybe 20% of my potential top DPS, IF I get to play HOW I LIKE, but I don't want to sacrifice a whopping 50% or more. I think I am viable if I do 10% less DPS than the other guy if I bring some utility as a trade-off, but I am obviously not competative. Again I'm talking about PvE competative not PvP, cause competative in PvP means many different things.

I'm glad we got this clarified. As I do not play end game PVE content I can really only approach this from a PvP perspective. In the interest of full disclosure my main is not a hybrid but a glass cannon that relies on high burst and evasive skills, so we can say I understand the effectiveness of specialization. As I increased in skill as a player I decreased my hybridization used for survivability and subsequently increased my dps. The point being though I built to my style of play and skill level. I have used many different sets and traits and for the most part was pretty happy with what they did for me when the trait suited my needs at the time.

I can assure you, heavy armor is not some kind of disguise worn in order to have clothies focused on instead. The damage mitigation is real, such that heavy armor is becoming more and more popular all the time.

I see now your 10 assertions are directed at ESO PVE and so will extract myself from this conversation and wish you the best and hope through this dialog the game somehow becomes better....Just don't be effing up my PvP bro.

you might consider editing your main post to reflect a strictly PvE focus...just sayin.

ushanshek

Scaling weakens many builds thats for sure.. pretty sad actually.
In my opinion how the game should be desinged:

Each level you get a point to put either in
Magicka or Focus (stamina) no scaling.

And another point to put in
Power or Endurance

Power would increase damage, healing, shields..
Endurance would be used for block, dodge, sprint and health

So the first point you would choose your prefered resource, the second point would increase your damage or survival simple as that

Glurin

PKMN12 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Remove the link between resource pool and power.

Redesign each skill to have two decent morphs that use it's original resource and a third which uses the other resource.

90% of builds just became viable... and far more than now, optimal...

....not true....at all. The only possible way to belive this is to have never played ANY MMO.

The simple fact is, especially thanks to the openness of this system, balance is not only unbelievable, it was stupid to think it was even close to be. The moment they wanted to go for Elder Scroll's open style system was the moment they doomed 90% of all builds to be much worse then the other 10%. an open skill system will ALWAYS fail in an MMO.

The only way you are ever going to be able to really play what you want is for them to have MANY different, solid, classes.

having so much choice in an MMO = most builds will be worthless, thus making the abilility to "choose" completely pointless.

Total nonsense. True, there will always be some ideal, cookie cutter build that people think is the best possible combination. (which also seems to change on a weekly basis) However, that does not make every other build worthless. You can actually do very well with the "inferior" skills and weapons. The only thing that makes them worthless in certain people's eyes is that they can theoretically only do say, 10,000 DPS instead of 11,000 DPS under ideal conditions.

The boss is just as dead whether it took four minutes to kill him or four minutes and ten seconds. If that extra ten seconds is having such a huge impact on your group that you consistently wipe or something, which is an excuse I've heard many times before, then it's you that failed because you are so specialized and inflexible that you are unable to adapt to even minor changes.

RavenSworn

I know you have thought this through but I dont think you were thinking about other playstyles. Levelling and pvping are two playstyles that has benefitted from this change.

Hell yes exploration and training traits are useless in end game but tell that to the levelling guy who sees it as a boost to his experience gain.

The cconcept of armor has always been for better damage mitigation or bonus resource recovery. I dont agree with the fact that it is now harder to extrapolate builds from the current system because it is more streamlined now, its actually easier to gain better dps numbers if you focus.

Hybrids, traditionally, should not have the same damage numbers as a specialized damage dealer but they are and should be better in managing both resources for their damage and survival.

The scaling was done to help stamina builds. Pre 1.6 eso only had a few viable builds and none of them were stamina builds at endgame sinply because stamina was locked to just survival. Right now, that balance has been redressed. Scaling it to weapon damage would revert that to the ol days of elder sorcerer online, which means a regression of the game.

Some_Jerk

I agree scaling from mag and stam should be removed

Emma_Overload

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

I know you have thought this through but I dont think you were thinking about other playstyles. Levelling and pvping are two playstyles that has benefitted from this change.

Hell yes exploration and training traits are useless in end game but tell that to the levelling guy who sees it as a boost to his experience gain.

The cconcept of armor has always been for better damage mitigation or bonus resource recovery. I dont agree with the fact that it is now harder to extrapolate builds from the current system because it is more streamlined now, its actually easier to gain better dps numbers if you focus.

Hybrids, traditionally, should not have the same damage numbers as a specialized damage dealer but they are and should be better in managing both resources for their damage and survival.

The scaling was done to help stamina builds. Pre 1.6 eso only had a few viable builds and none of them were stamina builds at endgame sinply because stamina was locked to just survival. Right now, that balance has been redressed. Scaling it to weapon damage would revert that to the ol days of elder sorcerer online, which means a regression of the game.

What are you talking about? If Damage was simply based on the corresponding Weapon/Spell Damage stat (instead of being so heavily modified by the size of the resource pool), Stamina builds would have an ENORMOUS advantage due to gear sets like Hunding's Rage! It's much easier and cheaper to build a high Weapon Damage build than a high Spell Damage build... haven't you noticed that Light of Cyrodiil rings are going for 200,000 G? That's because Spell Damage is so hard to come by, and players are desperate.

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RavenSworn

Then the change should come to other sets such as willow's path which instead of having regeneration boosted have spell damage added to them. But changing the whole mechanic of a gameplay seems rather counter intuitive to me.

If a light bulb is out in the house, do you change the lightbulb or do you break the house down?

jmoore59

Why did they remove soft caps?

byrom101b16_ESO

PKMN12 wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Remove the link between resource pool and power.

Redesign each skill to have two decent morphs that use it's original resource and a third which uses the other resource.

90% of builds just became viable... and far more than now, optimal...

....not true....at all. The only possible way to belive this is to have never played ANY MMO.

The simple fact is, especially thanks to the openness of this system, balance is not only unbelievable, it was stupid to think it was even close to be. The moment they wanted to go for Elder Scroll's open style system was the moment they doomed 90% of all builds to be much worse then the other 10%. an open skill system will ALWAYS fail in an MMO.

The only way you are ever going to be able to really play what you want is for them to have MANY different, solid, classes.

having so much choice in an MMO = most builds will be worthless, thus making the abilility to "choose" completely pointless.

You say 'not true' and then provide no facts to support your statement.

Then you doubt the experience of anyone who proposes it or agrees.

You sound like your entire paradigm for thinking what makes an MMO 'balanced' is from WoW.

Well, that's one of the many I have played, and I still think your conclusions are wrong.

Chelo

You cant be the master of everything in mmos... Of course an specialized damage dealer is going to do this role better than a hybrid... The hybrid probably would get better survival or better resource management, this is how it is in mmos... And this is an MMO in the TES universe...

Jar_Ek

@Chelo But a specialised damage dealer does not necessarily have to be a specialised resource build, it could just as easily be achieved with weapon and or spell power... in fact regardless of resource it already is defined this way to some extent, thus hybrids even without resource in the equation will be less effective than specialised builds. It's all a matter of degree - and removing resource from scaling will (hopefully) open up more build options that are viable, rather than extremely lacklustre.

Chelo

The point is that there's always going to be choices and you cant have it all... If you have high spell dmg, then you have low weapon dmg and vice versa, if you have high hp, then you have low dmg... You cant be a 90/90 hybrid compare to a 100% specialist in MMOs... You can be 50/50, 70/30, 60/40 but never 90/90. Thats the whole point of the trinity of mmo roles...