Achievements and Motifs learnt should be account-wide.

AngryNord · April 2015

Account-wide motifs... Your racial motif is considered auto-learned... *watches a lot of people roll Imperial alts and completely kill the market for Imperial motifs*

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

I wouldn't care much either way.

I do all my crafting on a single character. I'd imagine a lot of other people do all their motif crafts on a single character, with all their non-motif crafts on another.

Achievements...nah. Make the rewards account wide if you want, but not a lot of reason to make the actual achievements account wide.

newtinmpls · April 2015

hamon wrote: »

funny how all the folk who are so much in the NO camp make such reasoned and coherent arguements for their point of view.... speaks volumes to me..

You quote one emphatic person and ignore the various and well-reasoned arguments.

Here is your chance to explain why in an mmoRPG in the ES universe (based on individual achievement, but enjoyable enough to "redo" with another character, of another race - this has been the standard for this 'verse) you would have something so illogical which is apparently NOT needed in terms of coding/programming (which I presume is why my characters share a bank - because it's a pain in the *ss programming wise to do it any other way).

hamon · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

funny how all the folk who are so much in the NO camp make such reasoned and coherent arguements for their point of view.... speaks volumes to me..

You quote one emphatic person and ignore the various and well-reasoned arguments.

Here is your chance to explain why in an mmoRPG in the ES universe (based on individual achievement, but enjoyable enough to "redo" with another character, of another race - this has been the standard for this 'verse) you would have something so illogical which is apparently NOT needed in terms of coding/programming (which I presume is why my characters share a bank - because it's a pain in the *ss programming wise to do it any other way).

clearly sarcasm escapes you,, the guy posted " just NO" which is hardly any sort of arguement is it? thus making my comment pretty clearly sarcastic.

but you dont have any reasoned arguement against either..

your reasoning seems to be cos in other ES games each character is individual that should apply here... but the key diffrence is those are all single player games.. you dont have any sort of linked account in any way.

you don't role alts in single player games you start a new game... thats one of the fundamental diffrences of single player games versus MMO's

arena25 · April 2015

No.

That would promote people having 8 character all different races so they can cheat the system and get free gold at every corner.

hamon · April 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

one person pays and plays the game HE is the one earning the achievment not the pixels on screen he happens to be using at the time.

Okay then, let the things the player for the player earns be account wide, and the things the character earns for the character be per character...
...
Oh, wait... the achievements, alliance rank, crafting motivs and all that are things The Character Earned/Learned!

If one character finds a skyshard, that gets noted on this characters achievements, and not any others. If one character maxes provisioning, that allows this one character to cook neat stuff, and not all the others. If one character learns how to craft primal style, that is something this character now knows, not their cousin from the next village over the hill. If one character beats all the dolmen throughout nirn, that'd be something this character will be known for, and not the one who just got to coldharbour from another alliance. If one character racks up a nice list of victories in cyrodil, that's something this character ought to be promoted to higher rank in their alliances military for, and not the other one who just got to the starter island.

The only thing the player earns is experience at playing the game, and that's already account wide. Heck, that is even game-wide. When one character finds a skyshard, the player remembers, and grabs it with the next at that point in the map. If one character gets through a dungeon, the player remembers and can then choose to repeat the feat, or not, as they like.

No other game I know of even has something like account-wide champoin points, each other I played always have all such advancement per character. And instead of giving the PTB a nod of thanks for this one nifty feature, people whine for more...

skills like crafting dont need to be account wide, cos if you want to craft you just use whichever character you have the crafting skill on... why would that need to be account wide.

where its a pain in the butt is very long grinds like alliance war skills , or some of the dye unlocks which need to be done on one character. like killing all the named dolmen bosses.. ive easily killed them all more than once.. but since i wasnt on the same characteri have no achievment.

long grinds for unlocks should always be account wide. to argue against is to argue that even CP should be character only ,, but even the most frothing at the mouth naysayer would be hard pressed not to see how that would kill the game .. everyone would be forced to use one character untill they got so bored of that one character they leave the game rather than face attempting to go back to zero CP and start again.

hamon · April 2015

arena25 wrote: »

No.

That would promote people having 8 character all different races so they can cheat the system and get free gold at every corner.

free gold for what? how does having lots of characters give you free gold?

arena25 · April 2015

hamon wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

No.

That would promote people having 8 character all different races so they can cheat the system and get free gold at every corner.

free gold for what? how does having lots of characters give you free gold?

Because then when they have 8 different races, they unlock all 8 crafting abilities. Therefore, they have only 1 or 2 left to find, and they can sell the rest, hence why it's free gold.

Zhoyzu · April 2015

Ganacampo wrote: »

No, I disagree.

I want to know what my character earned.

What's next? Accountwide XP?

Please not.

Inb4 something like a champion system... owait. looks like you're late to the party

hamon · April 2015

arena25 wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

No.

That would promote people having 8 character all different races so they can cheat the system and get free gold at every corner.

free gold for what? how does having lots of characters give you free gold?

Because then when they have 8 different races, they unlock all 8 crafting abilities. Therefore, they have only 1 or 2 left to find, and they can sell the rest, hence why it's free gold.

you dont know what your talking about, even if i had all 8 characters id still need to level up the crafting on each one to be able to craft anything worth selling ... and even at that the crafting books are hardly worth any money. and the rares take a fair amount of farming if you want to get them to sell...

since you cant role a daedra or ancient elf.. your talking about making money from selling the blue books... those are worth wot 500 gold each? lol you can make that in 5 mins by stealing stuff any way , do you even play the game ?

newtinmpls · April 2015

hamon wrote: »

your reasoning seems to be cos in other ES games each character is individual that should apply here... but the key diffrence is those are all single player games.. you dont have any sort of linked account in any way.

you don't role alts in single player games you start a new game... thats one of the fundamental diffrences of single player games versus MMO's

I am new to MMOs, and this is not an MMO, it is an MMORPG which is a slightly different animal.

I have no idea how the character/alt/toon thing works in "most" MMOs. But if I want to imagine a world in which "unlocking" something for one individual character unlocks it for all my others, I just think of Paranoia and it's "clone family" starting point (I believe later it was morphed to a clone/regeneration thing, but same deal). Sims are similar in some ways - you are playing "family" or other sort of group.

In chess, or in any game where you "play" at the macro level (i.e. it is "player vs. player" rather than "character vs. character") it makes logical sense to have things be "account wide" as all of the myriad details are facets of the one player. The pieces will never have different goals than each other - they are all coherent parts of the Player's master plan (well, presuming a competent player).

In a single-person game (such as most of ES games to date) there is no need to worry about bank space or interactions with other players (PvP concerns). It doesn't matter if your characters are vastly different or all the same, as the "world" (as you interact with it) revolves around "you" and there is no (effective) difference between playing at the macro/player level and the micro/character level.

In an MMORPG you are not playing a clone or Sim family. You are playing different characters, possibly different races or classes (and that's another hot potato I'll leave alone for now), different alliances - there are myriad reasons inherent in the game why these are NOT all identical micro/character level expressions of one macro/player "plan" - most tellingly, the fact that you can only play one character at a time. This is play at the micro/character level.

I get, that for reasons of server space, programming and coding, it makes sense for ZOS to offer us joint bank space, collections and similar things. But I note (and appreciate) that they have made an effort to keep those things that can be separated - separate - individual to the character.

To your point of "you don't roll alts/you start a new game" - well..... In my experience, I have "started a new" game (in Cold Harbor) with every one of my alts/toons ... Characters.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

hamon wrote: »

you dont know what your talking about, even if i had all 8 characters id still need to level up the crafting on each one to be able to craft anything worth selling ... and even at that the crafting books are hardly worth any money. and the rares take a fair amount of farming if you want to get them to sell...

He's saying people would make a character of each race to automatically unlock all the racial styles.

Which is like...okay...who cares? Racial motifs are only 200g each, not like you would be saving a ton of money doing that.

hamon · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

your reasoning seems to be cos in other ES games each character is individual that should apply here... but the key diffrence is those are all single player games.. you dont have any sort of linked account in any way.

you don't role alts in single player games you start a new game... thats one of the fundamental diffrences of single player games versus MMO's

I am new to MMOs, and this is not an MMO, it is an MMORPG which is a slightly different animal.

I have no idea how the character/alt/toon thing works in "most" MMOs. But if I want to imagine a world in which "unlocking" something for one individual character unlocks it for all my others, I just think of Paranoia and it's "clone family" starting point (I believe later it was morphed to a clone/regeneration thing, but same deal). Sims are similar in some ways - you are playing "family" or other sort of group.

In chess, or in any game where you "play" at the macro level (i.e. it is "player vs. player" rather than "character vs. character") it makes logical sense to have things be "account wide" as all of the myriad details are facets of the one player. The pieces will never have different goals than each other - they are all coherent parts of the Player's master plan (well, presuming a competent player).

In a single-person game (such as most of ES games to date) there is no need to worry about bank space or interactions with other players (PvP concerns). It doesn't matter if your characters are vastly different or all the same, as the "world" (as you interact with it) revolves around "you" and there is no (effective) difference between playing at the macro/player level and the micro/character level.

In an MMORPG you are not playing a clone or Sim family. You are playing different characters, possibly different races or classes (and that's another hot potato I'll leave alone for now), different alliances - there are myriad reasons inherent in the game why these are NOT all identical micro/character level expressions of one macro/player "plan" - most tellingly, the fact that you can only play one character at a time. This is play at the micro/character level.

I get, that for reasons of server space, programming and coding, it makes sense for ZOS to offer us joint bank space, collections and similar things. But I note (and appreciate) that they have made an effort to keep those things that can be separated - separate - individual to the character.

To your point of "you don't roll alts/you start a new game" - well..... In my experience, I have "started a new" game (in Cold Harbor) with every one of my alts/toons ... Characters.

but you havent started a new game you,ve started a new character on your account... if it was a new game , your old character and everything attached would cease to exist. single player games exist to service one character going through a story, so when you start a new character its an entire new game.

MMO's exist to have an account where you can play various characters on the same account.. yes you can only have one character logged in at a time OFC. but they recognise that its one human paying to have the account and thus offer several character slots.. so regardless if you start from the same place with a new character , although you might not. you can skip coldharbour completely second time round. and start in another faction.

you cant be selective about this imo,, if your arguing for why stuff shouldnt be account wide you can't cherry pick what suits you and argue against what doesnt... thats hypocritical imo.. so if your argiung against that would include champion points . bank space , mounts ,, the whole lot...

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2015

if your going to sell them in the cash shop, then yes, they should be made account wide if you buy them from the crown store. if you find them ingame, thats different

newtinmpls · April 2015

I had commented (well ... a lot) but the point was:

newtinmpls wrote: »

To your point of "you don't roll alts/you start a new game" - well..... In my experience, I have "started a new" game (in Cold Harbor) with every one of my alts/toons ... Characters.

To which Hamon replied with two main points:

hamon wrote: »

but you havent started a new game you,ve started a new character on your account... if it was a new game , your old character and everything attached would cease to exist.

<snippage>

if your argiung against that would include champion points . bank space , mounts ,, the whole lot...

As to the first point. I played Morrowind for years, switching back and forth between characters. Each world experience was unique to that character and they did not share any simultaneous play, but playing an additional one did not make the first characters game saves delete - I would have to do that manually.

As to your second point. Yes, I would like to see champion points, bank space, mounts, absolutely everthing at the character level. I appreciate that the programmers have apparently deemed that this is not possible. I also appreciate that they have made things individual where it is possible.

AlnilamE · April 2015

People roll alts for different reasons. If my alts weren't able to get their own achievements and sky shards, that would take away 80% of the fun of having an alt in the first place.

Tavore1138 · April 2015

I disagree with the title just as I have every other time it has been posted.

These things define a character not a player... For example my main will never be a vampire but one of my others is, it would be stupid for my main to have the vampire achievement as it is not a vampire, and how would I track what I had and hadn't done (like which shards or dungeons I had completed) if the box just gets ticked by the first character to do it?

Personally I would not share dyes... mounts... skill points... motifs... alliance ranks... titles... or anyhting else that defines a character and their individual progress.

Obviously ZOS have implemented some of these becuase they are MMO staples but have chosen to keep others seperate, I hope they resist making players the basis and keep it about characters as much as possible.

snackrat · April 2015

It would certainly make Cyrodil skyshards easier. Opposite factions keep there's behind a gate, guarded with NPCs who will always see you. To get those four shares (and complete that cheev) you need to be with a battle party. And a battle party probably doesn't want you to splinter off and find shards as soon as you're inside.

lonewolf0052 · April 2015

I would like that to be the case but it would not make much sense.
Considering that it is a book the character that reads it would be the only one with the knowledge to use that style.

hamon · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

I had commented (well ... a lot) but the point was:

newtinmpls wrote: »

To your point of "you don't roll alts/you start a new game" - well..... In my experience, I have "started a new" game (in Cold Harbor) with every one of my alts/toons ... Characters.

To which Hamon replied with two main points:

hamon wrote: »

but you havent started a new game you,ve started a new character on your account... if it was a new game , your old character and everything attached would cease to exist.

<snippage>

if your argiung against that would include champion points . bank space , mounts ,, the whole lot...

As to the first point. I played Morrowind for years, switching back and forth between characters. Each world experience was unique to that character and they did not share any simultaneous play, but playing an additional one did not make the first characters game saves delete - I would have to do that manually.

As to your second point. Yes, I would like to see champion points, bank space, mounts, absolutely everthing at the character level. I appreciate that the programmers have apparently deemed that this is not possible. I also appreciate that they have made things individual where it is possible.

your dancing around as if you dont know what i mean, if in a single player game you start a new game the other game doesn't exist in terms of the new games, it never happened nothing is there from the last game.... now ofc it doesnt delete your saves... but to all intents and purposes it is not a part of it. you well know thats what i mean.

and where did they say chapion points being account wide was simply cos it was immpossible to do otherwise? to the best of my knowledge they simply made a design choice deeming it desirable.

basically all i hear as points against it are from folk who like it this way and somehow feel everyone should be bound by their prefrences... why would it affect you in any way if some of the longer grinds were made account wide?

ok you like doing everything on one toon , thats great for you , but does that mean you have to argue that nothing should be account wide? it simply hurts the game when folk leave because they grow bored of that one character and feel going back to square one on another is too much to repeat lots of achievments they already sunk masses of time into..if account wide achievments encourages folk to stick around and play other characters thats only a good thing for the game surely?

regardless how you like to play the game. lots of MMO's go as far as offering pre-levelled characters as alts provided you have one max level character on the account ,, because they recognise that its a way to keep folk playing the game longer.

so champion points being account wide was based on folk who enjoy alts saying that this game was already one of the most alt unfriendly MMO's ever made due to the hideously long vet grind and character based champion points would be the last straw.

Dennizon · April 2015

While it would certainly be more convenient, I believe this would negatively impact the longevity of the game.

Tavore1138 · April 2015

snackrat wrote: »

It would certainly make Cyrodil skyshards easier. Opposite factions keep there's behind a gate, guarded with NPCs who will always see you. To get those four shares (and complete that cheev) you need to be with a battle party. And a battle party probably doesn't want you to splinter off and find shards as soon as you're inside.

Actually you don't, you just need your faction to have the gates open and be a bit careful/lucky - get a close to the gate as you can, pop a health+immovable potion, jump on your mount and ride as fast as you can through - you will take a couple of hits at most from the NPCs if you do it right and once across the NPCs on the gate will not turn round to blast you.

Then stealth the rest of the way - job done.

newtinmpls · April 2015

WARNING: MINOR SPOILERS

I'm going to try to keep this sort of organized - but I'm over-caffeinated on too little sleep so I doubt it will come out as well as I intend.

Short version - I see my characters as separate chracters, and would prefer to have ... basically nothing account wide. Hamon would prefer to have everything account-wide.

That being said, I'll assure Hamon that yes, I do understand your point. And your preference. I simply disagree with it. Totally aside from that I also see some flaws in your logic, which I enjoy debating.

Hamon's point: (as I understand it) is that an MMO "includes" all the player's alts, hence as much as possible should be account-wide.

hamon wrote: »

but you havent started a new game you,ve started a new character on your account... if it was a new game , your old character and everything attached would cease to exist.

newtinmpls wrote: »

I played Morrowind for years, switching back and forth between characters. Each world experience was unique to that character and they did not share any simultaneous play, but playing an additional one did not make the first characters game saves delete - I would have to do that manually.

hamon wrote: »

if in a single player game you start a new game the other game doesn't exist in terms of the new games, it never happened nothing is there from the last game.... now ofc it doesnt delete your saves... but to all intents and purposes it is not a part of it

Seriously, this is exactly what happens in ESO. When my first AD character became "the newest eye of the queen", this "never happened" when my second AD character comes along. Every ESO character (even ones in the same faction) have their own unique experience/facet of the world. So (for instance) it would be silly for a "later" character of mine to get credit for "being a vampire" (to borrow an example used by someone else here) or "being a Hero of the alliance war". They have not done any of that.

Then, I think we get to a bit of a misunderstanding.

hamon wrote: »

ok you like doing everything on one toon , thats great for you

No. Or at least no in my particular case. I run two accounts (both subbed) because I really like to explore the world from multiple points of view. As an example: The game feels very different (to me) when I play Mol gro Durga, my Orsimer Tank/Sorcerer, who is deeply in love with his second/partner the Breton Templer Fianna Kingsley (& we've got the rings of Mara to prove it), as compared to when I play Broken Branch Toothmaul, a goblin (okay, Bosmer template) refugee from AD who loves to pickpocket but is absolutely terrible at it.

hamon wrote: »

lots of MMO's go as far as offering pre-levelled characters as alts provided you have one max level character on the account ,, because they recognise that its a way to keep folk playing the game longer

This is a fascinating argument. I have no experience with "MMOs" and Hamon apparently does, so if this is what happens, I would not know. It seems weird to me - why would you want to "keep playing longer" by skipping half the game? If Hamon is right and the vet levels are a "hideously long grind" - then what is anyone "grinding" to get TO?

However, all that being said, I do recognize a ... well a huge gulf (from the looks of it) between what the PvE folks (and RP folks) want vs the Vet Level/PvP folks. It almost seems to me that there are two games here that have been sort of grafted together and don't always make sense together.

So - what about the people that only want a "Vet" level character, or only want to play in Cyrodiil? Is there a way (or could there be a way) to accommodate that in a way that continues to respect/recognize the uniqueness of each character? Would it make sense/ be possible to somehow have a "higher level character creation option" (no idea what it would be called).

Or to put it another way - once we have progressed one character through Cold Harbor, the character creation menu allows the Cold Harbor experience to be skipped with subsequent characters. In recognition of this, the created character starts out with no experience or skill gains. So instead of a fourth level character overflowing with equipment to use or sell, the player starts with a first level character who might as well be naked for all the use shriven clothing gives.

Cyrodiil is accessible by any character of 10th level. Would it be possible to have a sort of character creation that starts there - the equivalent of a "minimum" 10th level character? Perhaps with skill and stat points commensurate with their level (no skyshard or quest bonuses) but (to ensure survivability) gifted (temporarily?) with the usual non-Vet bonuses?

In this case, there might be no place outside of Cyrodiil for the character to "go back" to - and I"m really not sure what that would do in terms of the main quest line. But it's an idea to throw out.

jkemmery · April 2015

I wish motifs were account wide, but I can't see achievements being made account wide. Motifs more for the convenience, but of all the things I could wish for this wouldn't be high on my list.

hamon · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

WARNING: MINOR SPOILERS

I'm going to try to keep this sort of organized - but I'm over-caffeinated on too little sleep so I doubt it will come out as well as I intend.

Short version - I see my characters as separate chracters, and would prefer to have ... basically nothing account wide. Hamon would prefer to have everything account-wide.

That being said, I'll assure Hamon that yes, I do understand your point. And your preference. I simply disagree with it. Totally aside from that I also see some flaws in your logic, which I enjoy debating.

Hamon's point: (as I understand it) is that an MMO "includes" all the player's alts, hence as much as possible should be account-wide.

hamon wrote: »

but you havent started a new game you,ve started a new character on your account... if it was a new game , your old character and everything attached would cease to exist.

newtinmpls wrote: »

I played Morrowind for years, switching back and forth between characters. Each world experience was unique to that character and they did not share any simultaneous play, but playing an additional one did not make the first characters game saves delete - I would have to do that manually.

hamon wrote: »

if in a single player game you start a new game the other game doesn't exist in terms of the new games, it never happened nothing is there from the last game.... now ofc it doesnt delete your saves... but to all intents and purposes it is not a part of it

Seriously, this is exactly what happens in ESO. When my first AD character became "the newest eye of the queen", this "never happened" when my second AD character comes along. Every ESO character (even ones in the same faction) have their own unique experience/facet of the world. So (for instance) it would be silly for a "later" character of mine to get credit for "being a vampire" (to borrow an example used by someone else here) or "being a Hero of the alliance war". They have not done any of that.

Then, I think we get to a bit of a misunderstanding.

hamon wrote: »

ok you like doing everything on one toon , thats great for you

No. Or at least no in my particular case. I run two accounts (both subbed) because I really like to explore the world from multiple points of view. As an example: The game feels very different (to me) when I play Mol gro Durga, my Orsimer Tank/Sorcerer, who is deeply in love with his second/partner the Breton Templer Fianna Kingsley (& we've got the rings of Mara to prove it), as compared to when I play Broken Branch Toothmaul, a goblin (okay, Bosmer template) refugee from AD who loves to pickpocket but is absolutely terrible at it.

hamon wrote: »

lots of MMO's go as far as offering pre-levelled characters as alts provided you have one max level character on the account ,, because they recognise that its a way to keep folk playing the game longer

This is a fascinating argument. I have no experience with "MMOs" and Hamon apparently does, so if this is what happens, I would not know. It seems weird to me - why would you want to "keep playing longer" by skipping half the game? If Hamon is right and the vet levels are a "hideously long grind" - then what is anyone "grinding" to get TO?

However, all that being said, I do recognize a ... well a huge gulf (from the looks of it) between what the PvE folks (and RP folks) want vs the Vet Level/PvP folks. It almost seems to me that there are two games here that have been sort of grafted together and don't always make sense together.

So - what about the people that only want a "Vet" level character, or only want to play in Cyrodiil? Is there a way (or could there be a way) to accommodate that in a way that continues to respect/recognize the uniqueness of each character? Would it make sense/ be possible to somehow have a "higher level character creation option" (no idea what it would be called).

Or to put it another way - once we have progressed one character through Cold Harbor, the character creation menu allows the Cold Harbor experience to be skipped with subsequent characters. In recognition of this, the created character starts out with no experience or skill gains. So instead of a fourth level character overflowing with equipment to use or sell, the player starts with a first level character who might as well be naked for all the use shriven clothing gives.

Cyrodiil is accessible by any character of 10th level. Would it be possible to have a sort of character creation that starts there - the equivalent of a "minimum" 10th level character? Perhaps with skill and stat points commensurate with their level (no skyshard or quest bonuses) but (to ensure survivability) gifted (temporarily?) with the usual non-Vet bonuses?

In this case, there might be no place outside of Cyrodiil for the character to "go back" to - and I"m really not sure what that would do in terms of the main quest line. But it's an idea to throw out.

i'm not arguing for skill lines like vampire to be account wide , those are skill lines, and should be leared if chosen on each character... where it gets a problem is the very long time sink things, like alliance war skills. maybe 1000 hours to get to AW 10.. thats a severe time investment . and if you switch character your back at square one.

champion points is the only longer grind in the game.. theres others like killing all of the named dolmen bosses. again to get them all you might have to do 200 dolmens.. thats quite a time investment.. but once again you have to do it on one character... where as i know ive done over 200 dolmens and killed them all. but am no where near the achievment cos i use diffrent characters.

then thiers stuff like clearing the tirals.. loads of folk want you to link the ahcievment or they wont group you.. now i might have cleared it more times than them on one character but cos i,m using another . they don't want to know.. now i dont suddenlt forget how to do it cos i,m using another character.. if ive done it ive done it.

so forget RP reasons and stuff like that , there are practical and sensible reasons where achievments should be account wide. cos its nothing to do with the character its to do with the person sitting playing the game. it demonstrates they have spent the time to do these things.

since when would anyone RPing . link achievments to other rp'ers anyway? i could think of nothing more OOC than that.

newtinmpls · April 2015

hamon wrote: »

i'm not arguing for skill lines like vampire to be account wide , those are skill lines, and should be leared if chosen on each character... where it gets a problem is the very long time sink things, like alliance war skills.

What I am hearing you say is that this is an issue related to convenience. So part of my question would be convenience for what? What difference does an achievement make? The first thing that comes to mind is unlocking colors, which is nice, but hardly game-breaking.

hamon wrote: »

then thiers stuff like clearing the tirals.. loads of folk want you to link the ahcievment or they wont group you.. now i might have cleared it more times than them on one character but cos i,m using another . they don't want to know.. now i dont suddenlt forget how to do it cos i,m using another character.. if ive done it ive done it.

This is a fascinating (and obviously a frustrating) thing to hear about. My first response is that someone who would treat you like that is not worth grouping with.

However the point you seem to be making is that there are persons within game that would accept (or possibly require) a "player/macro" level reassurance (for lack of a better term) in order to associate with you on the "character/micro" level. In terms of your enjoyment of the game (and to provide "qualifications" for various grouping, this is the best reason I've heard for having some sort of account-wide recognition of the player's achievements.

I still disagree with account-wide stuff - but you have given me something to think about here. There has got to be a way to do something to address this concern.