@Gidorick , they could also easily come up with scavenger hunts too, potentially starting out in nothing but your best shriven gear and collecting things along the way. They could require tokens/maps so other people weren't griefing or they could simply be everyday items.You have some great thoughts there @Merlin13KAGL. The community team is doing a good job with ESO live, The Tamriel Chronicles, Orienteering Challenges, and tales of the dead. The thing with those is that they function like player created events. The tales of the dead should result in the winning entry being added to the game & the orienting challenges should be more like an "amazing race" in ESO with waypoints.
I'm not sure that any are THAT intense o_oLord_Kreegan wrote: »They barely have time to go to the bathroom.
Lord_Kreegan wrote: »I'm going to suggest that all of you -- especially those of you claiming that you're developers -- click on the "Credits" button on the game's logon screen and then patiently wait for all the names to scroll by.
The names aren't important (except to those individuals, of course), but pay attention to the number of departments involved in making a AAA-game.
Consider the complexities of managing that sort of operation.
For those of you claiming to be developers of an MMO -- those of you who are most lilkely just amateur college students with oversized egos screwing around with a couple of buddies using one of the several free or cheap engines available on the web, whose "forum" consists of a bunch of other college students who are buddies -- consider the difference between managing a 400-man team with a $20M budget PER MONTH (not counting the pro-rated cost of benefits) and your tinkertoy operation where you're probably all operating for free inbetween classes.
It's not the same. It's not even close. It's not even on the same planet, much less the same neighborhood.
A AAA-development isn't a lark. It isn't fun. You work your ass off. You don't have time to waste chatting with forum-goers. That's why you have CM. You can have pathetic CM like LotRO had, or you can have fairly good CM like ESO has demonstrated to date.
Be realistic. Cut the devs some slack. I may not agree with their decisionmaking, but I know where they're coming from and THEY DON'T HAVE TIMETO SPEND CHATTING ON THE FORUMS.
Hell, they don't have time to take a day off. They barely have time to go to the bathroom.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , would be nice to finally get some answers on all of this, lest we get another 13 threads all on the same topic.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162881/leveling-through-vet-ranks-and-the-case-with-removing-them
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/87140/vet-ranks-are-boring
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157694/vet-exp-nerf-zos-illogic-examined
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150697/vet-levels
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/111031/vet-level-took-my-motivation-out-back-and-beat-it-to-death-with-an-aluminum-baseball-bat
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/104898/vet-levels-suck
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163464/vet-level-and-horse-training
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/112108/vet-level-questing-is-soul-destroying-and-dull
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/155832/vet-xp-is-broken-now-math-included
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/142988/xp-change-for-vet-levels
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/139840/vet-leveling
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/163887/v1-v14-climb-is-too-much/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/165416/vet-levels-are-ridiculous
Can dig into this a little more when it's not super late, but we did briefly mention this topic on the last ESO Live. We do still intend to remove Veteran Ranks at some point in the future, though we don't have an ETA. There's a lot of design work that still needs to happen with the removal (it's a lot more than just simply removing them, as they impact a lot of systems!).[/sign
@ZOS_GinaBruno
NO work needs be done at all to deal with the core problem (the horrible veteran grind).
Just reduce the amount of XP needed to gain each rank to 150k. It's simple and can be done in a hotfix.
In fact I started a thread about this weeks ago :
Why and How to Remove the Pain of Veteran Ranks....Its-simple
Why: Player Separation. Player separation is the number one reason why vet levels need to be removed/adjusted. I've had too many real life friends simply give up because the road is too long to get to max level. The reason why becoming max level is so important in an MMO is because that pool of max level characters is the largest pool of players in the game as compared to each other individual level prior to max level. I would be very surprised if there weren't more vr14 characters than any other single level in the game (other than level 1 , or perhaps VR1). Being max level means that when you are looking for a group you don't have to find a tiny sliver of the population that is the same level as you are, instead there is a large pool of people that have reached end-game content which also happens to be the best content in the game.
How: Simply reduce the XP required to gain each vet rank from 1,000,000 to the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50 (not sure what that is). This essentially just makes vr14 the equivalent of level 63. No other changes to the game would be required. No retroactive granting of vet levels for xp gained prior to the change.
Why not do it....next patch?
Lord_Kreegan wrote: »I'm going to suggest that all of you -- especially those of you claiming that you're developers -- click on the "Credits" button on the game's logon screen and then patiently wait for all the names to scroll by.
The names aren't important (except to those individuals, of course), but pay attention to the number of departments involved in making a AAA-game.
Consider the complexities of managing that sort of operation.
For those of you claiming to be developers of an MMO -- those of you who are most lilkely just amateur college students with oversized egos screwing around with a couple of buddies using one of the several free or cheap engines available on the web, whose "forum" consists of a bunch of other college students who are buddies -- consider the difference between managing a 400-man team with a $20M budget PER MONTH (not counting the pro-rated cost of benefits) and your tinkertoy operation where you're probably all operating for free inbetween classes.
It's not the same. It's not even close. It's not even on the same planet, much less the same neighborhood.
A AAA-development isn't a lark. It isn't fun. You work your ass off. You don't have time to waste chatting with forum-goers. That's why you have CM. You can have pathetic CM like LotRO had, or you can have fairly good CM like ESO has demonstrated to date.
Be realistic. Cut the devs some slack. I may not agree with their decisionmaking, but I know where they're coming from and THEY DON'T HAVE TIMETO SPEND CHATTING ON THE FORUMS.
Hell, they don't have time to take a day off. They barely have time to go to the bathroom.
inMorsAeterna wrote: »I would like to point out that since the start of the game I have been apart of nearly 20 guild meetings with either @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_BrianWheeler, etc. And these meetings generally go on for over an hour. And i'm only in a couple guilds that are involved. Imagine how many meetings span over all guilds, over the entirety of the games time since launch.
You may not see it on the surface, but the ZOS team is hard at work communicating with the community in VERY VERY productive community feedback sessions. I see nothing but bright things for the future of this game.
Well @ZOS_GinaBruno ... can you offer an actual help in regards to grouping tool and it's performance, or can you only post general PR statements?
Gina and the others can deal with the forums. I hope the devs concentrate on the game.
Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno have you considered a Player Committee?
LOTRO used this to great effect.
Basically have 20 or so players on a committee that have a Private Forum for contact with the DEVs, have a VOIP meeting every month or so. Have these players tagged on the forums as Committee Members so that players can approach them and know that their concerns will be put in front of the DEV team.
Sure these players will have to sign an NDA, and they'll need to stick to it.
But it helped in LOTRO because the Committee members could say to the community yes, we know this is an issue and we can tell you that the DEVs know about it and a working on it.
Now you may say that is in effect what you are doing already.
But I will point out that you are "on the inside peering out" while a player Committee is "one the outside peering in" and that can make a lot of difference on Company / Playerbase trust issues.
All The Best
Well @ZOS_GinaBruno ... can you offer an actual help in regards to grouping tool and it's performance, or can you only post general PR statements?
Things like this is why I don't think the devs should ever post on the forums.
Random Dev posts "we are looking at the eventual possibility of adding dwemer machine schematics to the world; if a character finds one, they can construct a dwemer robot." [Any statement by a dev about *anything* would have this happen.]
It would instantly turn into THE DEVS SAID WE WILL BE ABLE TO BUILD ROBOTS!!!!!!!!!!! Then the arguments about lore, crafting, game economy, material accessibility, and accusations of conspiracy and lying from the devs. Of course the attacks by posters would go over the line and target the devs and not the idea. That has already happened numerous times. I've seen posts accusing the devs of being lazy moronic code monkeys who are only interested in nickel and diming the players and not really working on the game.
Gina and the others can deal with the forums. I hope the devs concentrate on the game.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »While I understand it would be great to hear from the devs directly more frequently, I also understand that they have different obligations and can't talk as freely as they might like to anyway. The community team, especially Gina who posts quite often in the forums, are doing a tremendous job in relaying our feedbacks to the developers, and the bi-weekly ESO live is something I wouldn't have expected to happen from a big studio.
That said, I believe there is room for a little more information coming from the developers - as has been suggested, maybe just a short video each week where a dev can show a little piece he has been working on during that week: A piece of artwork, a sound effect, some UI elements, anything that doesn't reveal or promise too much, but gives a little insight into the development process and keeps us in touch with the developers themselves. Before launch, we at least saw the developers every week for the Question of the Week.
Something we're toying around with internally is a "What are you working on?" video segment for ESO Live where we would, quite literally, go to the desks of developers and ask them what they're working on right that second. Could be fun.
grimsfield wrote: »Lord_Kreegan wrote: »I'm going to suggest that all of you -- especially those of you claiming that you're developers -- click on the "Credits" button on the game's logon screen and then patiently wait for all the names to scroll by.
The names aren't important (except to those individuals, of course), but pay attention to the number of departments involved in making a AAA-game.
Consider the complexities of managing that sort of operation.
For those of you claiming to be developers of an MMO -- those of you who are most lilkely just amateur college students with oversized egos screwing around with a couple of buddies using one of the several free or cheap engines available on the web, whose "forum" consists of a bunch of other college students who are buddies -- consider the difference between managing a 400-man team with a $20M budget PER MONTH (not counting the pro-rated cost of benefits) and your tinkertoy operation where you're probably all operating for free inbetween classes.
It's not the same. It's not even close. It's not even on the same planet, much less the same neighborhood.
A AAA-development isn't a lark. It isn't fun. You work your ass off. You don't have time to waste chatting with forum-goers. That's why you have CM. You can have pathetic CM like LotRO had, or you can have fairly good CM like ESO has demonstrated to date.
Be realistic. Cut the devs some slack. I may not agree with their decisionmaking, but I know where they're coming from and THEY DON'T HAVE TIMETO SPEND CHATTING ON THE FORUMS.
Hell, they don't have time to take a day off. They barely have time to go to the bathroom.
Since you seem to know so much, I guess I can't really tell you a whole lot, but there are times when you are working on games where you have to do things like compile or sync. During the 2 or 3 minutes that you're doing that, you can't really do much work. So you can read the forums for 1 or 2 minutes if you so choose. To post a reply takes maybe 30 seconds, maybe longer if you really wanna get into something. The point is, even if you're busy working on a game, there is time here and there and unless you are close to some sort of big patch release you probably won't be in crunch mode (so you can go to the bathroom..........). So as a dev, you would probably have time to take a peek at the forums every so often. Oh and If you think ESO has a 400 man development team, you need to do a little more research, because theres no way. Maybe before the game released, but not now.
Lord_Kreegan wrote: »grimsfield wrote: »Lord_Kreegan wrote: »I'm going to suggest that all of you -- especially those of you claiming that you're developers -- click on the "Credits" button on the game's logon screen and then patiently wait for all the names to scroll by.
The names aren't important (except to those individuals, of course), but pay attention to the number of departments involved in making a AAA-game.
Consider the complexities of managing that sort of operation.
For those of you claiming to be developers of an MMO -- those of you who are most lilkely just amateur college students with oversized egos screwing around with a couple of buddies using one of the several free or cheap engines available on the web, whose "forum" consists of a bunch of other college students who are buddies -- consider the difference between managing a 400-man team with a $20M budget PER MONTH (not counting the pro-rated cost of benefits) and your tinkertoy operation where you're probably all operating for free inbetween classes.
It's not the same. It's not even close. It's not even on the same planet, much less the same neighborhood.
A AAA-development isn't a lark. It isn't fun. You work your ass off. You don't have time to waste chatting with forum-goers. That's why you have CM. You can have pathetic CM like LotRO had, or you can have fairly good CM like ESO has demonstrated to date.
Be realistic. Cut the devs some slack. I may not agree with their decisionmaking, but I know where they're coming from and THEY DON'T HAVE TIMETO SPEND CHATTING ON THE FORUMS.
Hell, they don't have time to take a day off. They barely have time to go to the bathroom.
Since you seem to know so much, I guess I can't really tell you a whole lot, but there are times when you are working on games where you have to do things like compile or sync. During the 2 or 3 minutes that you're doing that, you can't really do much work. So you can read the forums for 1 or 2 minutes if you so choose. To post a reply takes maybe 30 seconds, maybe longer if you really wanna get into something. The point is, even if you're busy working on a game, there is time here and there and unless you are close to some sort of big patch release you probably won't be in crunch mode (so you can go to the bathroom..........). So as a dev, you would probably have time to take a peek at the forums every so often. Oh and If you think ESO has a 400 man development team, you need to do a little more research, because theres no way. Maybe before the game released, but not now.
You're showing your lack of knowledge and experience...
The programming team handles compilations and builds, not the devs... and a complete build managed by configuration control specialists can take hours to complete, not two or three minutes. By claiming that you do your own compilations and they only last a few minutes, you are disclosing that you've only worked with trivial efforts.
Again, like I suggested, go click on the Credits button and then watch the names and departments scroll by.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, wanted to pop in and address a few topics mentioned in this thread.
First, thanks for your suggestions and feedback. We care very deeply for this game, as you all do, and want to continually improve how we communicate with you all to keep you in the loop as much as we can.
That said, as we've stated before, the team is currently very focused on console launch and supporting the PC/Mac version. We're releasing the game on two new platforms in just a few weeks, and the studio is buzzing! It's definitely an exciting time, but also very busy.
Without getting into all the hairy details of day-to-day activities amongst different teams, we can tell you that we do gather your feedback and issues straight from the forums to bring to the developers' attention. There are many reports that go out, and please trust that we keep a close eye on all topics (even though we may not always respond in each thread).
One thing we'd like to continue doing, and perhaps even expand on, is getting your opinion about current and upcoming content or features. For example, we have a thread currently stickied asking what you'd like to see in the Crown Store. We've gotten some really good ideas from that thread, and it also gives us a good idea of the things you'd like to see (and what you don't necessarily want to see, too!) Yes, we have been reading it.
We absolutely want to work with you to continue strengthening the community; tell us what you'd like to see, and we'll do our best to make it happen. Within reason, of course.