Motifs and Ring of Mara are in the Crown Shop!!!

Keron · April 2015

The imperial edition gives you the choice of playing an imperial char - who has the ability to craft imperial style as it's racial style. The imperial edition never gave you the imperials motif book, you never could craft imperial style with any race other than imperial, even with the pre-order imperial that I am the not-so-proud owner of.

P3ZZL3 · April 2015

@Keron So you can actually mitigate the restriction by creating a character and learning the trade and then sell the items on, BUT, it will take a long time and skill points invested to make it happen.

Which is fine - as long as the same applies to the books I guess - which I suspect they don't as you can apply it to any of your characters.

starkerealm · April 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

That dye is one of the best I have.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of it, but it does have a unique brown/purple quality to it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2015

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

Heishi · April 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

As I said in the last sentence, it would be equivalent to buying alliance ranks. The rare motifs were functionally a symbol of achievement for crafters like the ranks and titles are for pvp players. No, it doesn't help you kill mobs or players faster, it doesn't help you win at PvP or PvE. It does help you win at crafting.

I don't do this myself, but there are people who exclusively trade and craft just like there are people who exclusively RP, PvP, PvE, ect. It would be like putting the beta monkey pet in the shop. Really for a crafter, this would be equivalent being able to more kill mobs or players more efficiently. In creating armor/weapons for other players, earning the motifs gave you an advantage over those who hadn't earned it yet. It would be like putting nirn items/mats in the crown store.

nolankotulan · April 2015

Deleted

starkerealm · April 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. I understand the logic, that the prices are such that almost no one is going to actually buy all of them just for bragging rights, ect. But, this was something I worked towards in game, and (for various reasons) wasn't able to finish up until a couple months ago... and then ZoS wanders in and says, "hey, anybody out there want this stuff for cash?"

$:\$

Gidorick · April 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. I understand the logic, that the prices are such that almost no one is going to actually buy all of them just for bragging rights, ect. But, this was something I worked towards in game, and (for various reasons) wasn't able to finish up until a couple months ago... and then ZoS wanders in and says, "hey, anybody out there want this stuff for cash?"

$:\$

I would have prefer that they sold treasure maps to GUARANTEED Motifs.... at least make it a little bit of a game.

starkerealm · April 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. I understand the logic, that the prices are such that almost no one is going to actually buy all of them just for bragging rights, ect. But, this was something I worked towards in game, and (for various reasons) wasn't able to finish up until a couple months ago... and then ZoS wanders in and says, "hey, anybody out there want this stuff for cash?"

$:\$

I would have prefer that they sold treasure maps to GUARANTEED Motifs.... at least make it a little bit of a game.

You know? It's dangerously close to lockboxes, but I would have been a lot happier with treasure map packs in the store. $:\$

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2015

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

As I said in the last sentence, it would be equivalent to buying alliance ranks. The rare motifs were functionally a symbol of achievement for crafters like the ranks and titles are for pvp players. No, it doesn't help you kill mobs or players faster, it doesn't help you win at PvP or PvE. It does help you win at crafting.

I don't do this myself, but there are people who exclusively trade and craft just like there are people who exclusively RP, PvP, PvE, ect. It would be like putting the beta monkey pet in the shop. Really for a crafter, this would be equivalent being able to more kill mobs or players more efficiently. In creating armor/weapons for other players, earning the motifs gave you an advantage over those who hadn't earned it yet. It would be like putting nirn items/mats in the crown store.

Alliance ranks are completely different. For one you get titles. Its apples to oranges tho. Its simply cosmetic. Its not pay to "win" if you arent winning. If the motifs were only available on the store its still not pay to win. Cosmetics dont help you "win".

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. I understand the logic, that the prices are such that almost no one is going to actually buy all of them just for bragging rights, ect. But, this was something I worked towards in game, and (for various reasons) wasn't able to finish up until a couple months ago... and then ZoS wanders in and says, "hey, anybody out there want this stuff for cash?"

$:\$

For the most rare its ALOT of cash. For the regular ones I vendor trash those anyways.

NadiusMaximus · April 2015

Sounds like a thin line they are drawing here.
Really, I don't care.
But if it evolves into pay chests that have sets in them for your level, if it's anything better than white gear and I'm gone. Nothing will stop them from "Hey buy this chest for a chance at a master weapon"

Dixa · April 2015

None of this is an issue.

rings of mara - have to be grouped for the bonus to work, and you give up some good stats to wear it.

motif books in the crown store - not exactly cheap. Even with 3 months of sub stipend it's not enough to buy the full set.

new player being able to spend money, buy them and learn them at level 1 - not an issue. the biggest roadblock to crafting is research, and that is time-gated. new people will spend just as much time as you did to get to a level to make decent gear and with the current gold inflation, actually spend far more than you did over the last year even if they do not buy books.

starkerealm · April 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. I understand the logic, that the prices are such that almost no one is going to actually buy all of them just for bragging rights, ect. But, this was something I worked towards in game, and (for various reasons) wasn't able to finish up until a couple months ago... and then ZoS wanders in and says, "hey, anybody out there want this stuff for cash?"

$:\$

For the most rare its ALOT of cash. For the regular ones I vendor trash those anyways.

Yeah, like I said, this isn't about just crunching numbers. At a subjective level it bothers me. Not in an, "oh, it's pay to win" or that I think a lot of people are going to look at it and jump... especially at those prices. But, it feels like it cheapens the accomplishment of actually having completed the motif set. Which, again, it's subjective. Stick it in the same pile as, "it leaves a bad taste in my mouth."

Praxxos · April 2015

Dixa wrote: »

new player being able to spend money, buy them and learn them at level 1 - not an issue. the biggest roadblock to crafting is research, and that is time-gated. new people will spend just as much time as you did to get to a level to make decent gear and with the current gold inflation, actually spend far more than you did over the last year even if they do not buy books.

And to be able to craft anything for a higher level than T1 you need a lot of Skillpoints. To master a Tradeskill you need what? 20 Skillpoints?

Garwulf · April 2015

Who cares. Just another nail in the poor in-game economy of Tamriel 'Boring'. With each month there is less and less reason to want to play. Way to go ZoS.

Common ZoS put Championship points in the Crown shop. You know you want to do it.

Shambhu · April 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. $:\$

Well, the fact that you can buy them from Guild Traders "cheapens the experience" already, so no harm done. It took me a year of playing (not grinding for) to get my first purple motif, one which I had bought early on. That said, my wife found the imperial motif after a few days of game time. It only takes a few days of grinding to get all of them bought, a little bit longer if you just play the game and sell the loot.
Looking at the amount of butthurt here about the motifs being available for straight cash, it seems mostly that the people complaining are just jealous that they were stupid enough to login/logout/login-grind to get their blue motifs. I did that for few hours and managed to get one. Then I realized I could just buy them from the guild traders with relatively low amount of money.
As for what comes to the people complaining that it ruins the ingame economy... well, if it actually does that (which I severely doubt) I guess you have to invent a new way to scam the n00bs. I could buy them blue motifs for as low as 150g from some trading guilds, and then sell them at the starting zone for 1000g, and I have to say I'm glad to see that gone (if it actually goes away). After I got fed up with the ridiculous prices, I've given away my blue motifs at the starting zone, for free.

Heishi · April 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

As I said in the last sentence, it would be equivalent to buying alliance ranks. The rare motifs were functionally a symbol of achievement for crafters like the ranks and titles are for pvp players. No, it doesn't help you kill mobs or players faster, it doesn't help you win at PvP or PvE. It does help you win at crafting.

I don't do this myself, but there are people who exclusively trade and craft just like there are people who exclusively RP, PvP, PvE, ect. It would be like putting the beta monkey pet in the shop. Really for a crafter, this would be equivalent being able to more kill mobs or players more efficiently. In creating armor/weapons for other players, earning the motifs gave you an advantage over those who hadn't earned it yet. It would be like putting nirn items/mats in the crown store.

Alliance ranks are completely different. For one you get titles. Its apples to oranges tho. Its simply cosmetic. Its not pay to "win" if you arent winning. If the motifs were only available on the store its still not pay to win. Cosmetics dont help you "win".

Not different at all. Titles are cosmetic. Just like the Motif brown you can now buy by getting the rares. More Alliance ranks means access to more skills, in order to use the rare motifs you had to almost master crafting meaning more skills. The crown motifs of course don't give you the skills earned through working for it, so maybe we offer our hypothetical crown alliance ranks without the skill progression.

Just because they don't help you kill mobs or players doesn't mean it doesn't help you win. Leaving a side the achievements that can now be bought, crafting the rare sets still earns more money. This also means that you don't have to spend the considerable amount of time to find them (time = money), or spend a considerable amount of in game money to buy them.

Even if we let this go as not pay to win, which could be argued until our fingers fall off, you have to admit this is the edge of a very slippery slope. In just barely a month of being open we have went from pets/mounts/restoration potions to buying the most coveted rare motif along with the achievements earned and get to sidestep the requirements held for the in game version. How much further will it go?

Flynch · April 2015

Decreased drop rate + prohibitive RL prices in the cash-store = this is actually pretty good news for those who sell motifs.

Audigy · April 2015

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

As I said in the last sentence, it would be equivalent to buying alliance ranks. The rare motifs were functionally a symbol of achievement for crafters like the ranks and titles are for pvp players. No, it doesn't help you kill mobs or players faster, it doesn't help you win at PvP or PvE. It does help you win at crafting.

I don't do this myself, but there are people who exclusively trade and craft just like there are people who exclusively RP, PvP, PvE, ect. It would be like putting the beta monkey pet in the shop. Really for a crafter, this would be equivalent being able to more kill mobs or players more efficiently. In creating armor/weapons for other players, earning the motifs gave you an advantage over those who hadn't earned it yet. It would be like putting nirn items/mats in the crown store.

I must admit I can not follow you there completely. Motifs are not an achievement for me, they are loot that you can find if you are lucky, just like everything that drops from monsters or can be looted from chests.

Sure it can show some dedication, but only if someone would need many weeks or months to find one, which isn't the case at all. You can find it by playing 1 hour or 10 a day, its all about luck and this definitely can not be compared to an alliance rank or completing a specific achievement for the dyes.

starkerealm · April 2015

Shambhu wrote: »

Looking at the amount of butthurt here about the motifs being available for straight cash, it seems mostly that the people complaining are just jealous that they were stupid enough to login/logout/login-grind to get their blue motifs.

Shambhu wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I know I've said this before, but it does feel, at least to me, like they've cheapened the experience of actually completing the motif sets. $:\$

Well, the fact that you can buy them from Guild Traders "cheapens the experience" already, so no harm done. It took me a year of playing (not grinding for) to get my first purple motif, one which I had bought early on. That said, my wife found the imperial motif after a few days of game time. It only takes a few days of grinding to get all of them bought, a little bit longer if you just play the game and sell the loot.
Looking at the amount of butthurt here about the motifs being available for straight cash, it seems mostly that the people complaining are just jealous that they were stupid enough to login/logout/login-grind to get their blue motifs. I did that for few hours and managed to get one. Then I realized I could just buy them from the guild traders with relatively low amount of money.
As for what comes to the people complaining that it ruins the ingame economy... well, if it actually does that (which I severely doubt) I guess you have to invent a new way to scam the n00bs. I could buy them blue motifs for as low as 150g from some trading guilds, and then sell them at the starting zone for 1000g, and I have to say I'm glad to see that gone (if it actually goes away). After I got fed up with the ridiculous prices, I've given away my blue motifs at the starting zone, for free.

None of the above actually. I got my purple motifs from playing legitimately. The only time I did the log in/log out crap was when I was trying to get the blue level 10/15 recipes, because before the writ system, and after recipes were changed to scale with your current level, those were impossible to get for love or money. But, that required a character between level 10 and 15... which, you know, isn't the kind of character that can farm for any meaningful motif. Hell, some level 10 green recipes are still worth over 2k if you can find them. And I've seen level 10 blue recipes move for over 20k.

No, the purple four and original imperial motif came out of container looting while actually playing the game. A novel concept, I know. Though, strictly speaking the Daedric motif came from trading a spare barbaric and primal to a guild member.

And, of course, if you actually played the game, you'd know that the log in/log out refresh doesn't work with Dwemer pages. But, you'd already know that, if you'd, you know, played the game.

No, I worked up those legitimately. And, now ZOS is saying, "yeah, screw hard work, just hand us your credit card info." $:\$

AngryNord · April 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I've not heard from ZoS about this particular question, which I have asked for clarification but if someone out there has bought them and implemented them, could they clarify?

When I bought Imperial from the crown store, for 1500 crowns, if "unlocked" it for me. This gave me the horse and Ring of Mara. However, it DID NOT allow me to craft Imperial items. I can, however, right click on an item I'm wearing and "convert it" to imperial. Once this is done however, it's bound to me. I did not receive the Imperial Motif book with the purchase.

Where as I have learnt the Barbarian skill line and can create items and sell them on, etc, as it was from a Motif Book in game, not bought.

Does the Imperial process apply to all the motifs bought in the CS? OR can you craft the items and sell them on to others?

Cheers.

You can only Craft the "native" style of Your race without crafting books. Sounds like you are playing another race than Imperial.

P3ZZL3 · April 2015

Correct I am. Like I said, it allows me to convert the items to Imperial, but not craft as the character is a breton.

AngryNord · April 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Correct I am. Like I said, it allows me to convert the items to Imperial, but not craft as the character is a breton.

Which is how it is meant to be, of course. All races can only intrinsically Craft their "native" style - to unlock the other styles, you need the motif books.

starkerealm · April 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Correct I am. Like I said, it allows me to convert the items to Imperial, but not craft as the character is a breton.

Which is how it is meant to be, of course. All races can only intrinsically Craft their "native" style - to unlock the other styles, you need the motif books.

The ability to craft imperial armor with the imperial edition is a little... misleading. You need to actually roll up an imperial, and then they can craft imperial style gear normally. That stuff can be traded or sold. If you just want gear for yourself, you can always convert. If you want a non-imperial to be able to craft that style, they need to have the motif book, which isn't included in the Imperial edition, and never was. But that's not completely clear, or at least it wasn't on the physical imperial edition back when that was a thing.

P3ZZL3 · April 2015

^^ Speaks the Truth. I mean, don't get me wrong, I have 6 Imperial Motifs, so it's not a problem...but still

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2015

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

As I said in the last sentence, it would be equivalent to buying alliance ranks. The rare motifs were functionally a symbol of achievement for crafters like the ranks and titles are for pvp players. No, it doesn't help you kill mobs or players faster, it doesn't help you win at PvP or PvE. It does help you win at crafting.

I don't do this myself, but there are people who exclusively trade and craft just like there are people who exclusively RP, PvP, PvE, ect. It would be like putting the beta monkey pet in the shop. Really for a crafter, this would be equivalent being able to more kill mobs or players more efficiently. In creating armor/weapons for other players, earning the motifs gave you an advantage over those who hadn't earned it yet. It would be like putting nirn items/mats in the crown store.

Alliance ranks are completely different. For one you get titles. Its apples to oranges tho. Its simply cosmetic. Its not pay to "win" if you arent winning. If the motifs were only available on the store its still not pay to win. Cosmetics dont help you "win".

Not different at all. Titles are cosmetic. Just like the Motif brown you can now buy by getting the rares. More Alliance ranks means access to more skills, in order to use the rare motifs you had to almost master crafting meaning more skills. The crown motifs of course don't give you the skills earned through working for it, so maybe we offer our hypothetical crown alliance ranks without the skill progression.

Just because they don't help you kill mobs or players doesn't mean it doesn't help you win. Leaving a side the achievements that can now be bought, crafting the rare sets still earns more money. This also means that you don't have to spend the considerable amount of time to find them (time = money), or spend a considerable amount of in game money to buy them.

Even if we let this go as not pay to win, which could be argued until our fingers fall off, you have to admit this is the edge of a very slippery slope. In just barely a month of being open we have went from pets/mounts/restoration potions to buying the most coveted rare motif along with the achievements earned and get to sidestep the requirements held for the in game version. How much further will it go?

Titles and cosmetic motifs to make gear are 100% different. You can try and argue that all you want but your point is 100% flawed when you start with something like "AP points and a motif are the same thing!".

BigM · April 2015

Yep this is what I was afraid of. The game is going to go down even faster if they do stuff like this. Hope you guys are watching, this is called jumping the shark!

KrisButtar · April 2015

I'll be buying the motifs, I'm not spending in game currency for them nor am I going to farm for hours to get what I need. I thank ZOS for adding them just wish they were a bit cheaper

Heishi · April 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Again its only pay to win if the stuff you pay for is better and not available any other way besides the store.

That's the problem. The crown rare motifs are better because you can learn them straight out of tutorial rather than having to almost max out your crafting to learn it. They are still available in the game, but take a significant amount of time to get. It also means you can buy the achievement and dye without putting in the effort to actually achieve it. Granted the dye is a brown iirc and not that significant. It would be like buying alliance ranks.

How are dyes and cosmetic armor helping you win anything? Imagine if they sell them on the store but when you get your $50 motif you cant use it. Thats why. Also the motifs taking time to find is irrelevant. The whole point of the store is to cut out that time. Again its not pay to win. You cannot beat anyone in pvp or beat a trail with more points because of some cosmetic armor.

As I said in the last sentence, it would be equivalent to buying alliance ranks. The rare motifs were functionally a symbol of achievement for crafters like the ranks and titles are for pvp players. No, it doesn't help you kill mobs or players faster, it doesn't help you win at PvP or PvE. It does help you win at crafting.

I don't do this myself, but there are people who exclusively trade and craft just like there are people who exclusively RP, PvP, PvE, ect. It would be like putting the beta monkey pet in the shop. Really for a crafter, this would be equivalent being able to more kill mobs or players more efficiently. In creating armor/weapons for other players, earning the motifs gave you an advantage over those who hadn't earned it yet. It would be like putting nirn items/mats in the crown store.

Alliance ranks are completely different. For one you get titles. Its apples to oranges tho. Its simply cosmetic. Its not pay to "win" if you arent winning. If the motifs were only available on the store its still not pay to win. Cosmetics dont help you "win".

Not different at all. Titles are cosmetic. Just like the Motif brown you can now buy by getting the rares. More Alliance ranks means access to more skills, in order to use the rare motifs you had to almost master crafting meaning more skills. The crown motifs of course don't give you the skills earned through working for it, so maybe we offer our hypothetical crown alliance ranks without the skill progression.

Just because they don't help you kill mobs or players doesn't mean it doesn't help you win. Leaving a side the achievements that can now be bought, crafting the rare sets still earns more money. This also means that you don't have to spend the considerable amount of time to find them (time = money), or spend a considerable amount of in game money to buy them.

Even if we let this go as not pay to win, which could be argued until our fingers fall off, you have to admit this is the edge of a very slippery slope. In just barely a month of being open we have went from pets/mounts/restoration potions to buying the most coveted rare motif along with the achievements earned and get to sidestep the requirements held for the in game version. How much further will it go?

Titles and cosmetic motifs to make gear are 100% different. You can try and argue that all you want but your point is 100% flawed when you start with something like "AP points and a motif are the same thing!".

I said nothing about AP, just the ranks and titles. The motifs don't give you mats or the skill points to make higher level armor. The Crown Store Motifs bypass the fact that you must have ____ rank in a crafting skill in order to use them. It would be the same if you didn't have to have the AP in order to get the alliance rank. It is your reading comprehension not my point that is 100% flawed if that was what you got out of everything I have said.

Look really what I want is simple. I don't care that the rare Motifs are in the store, I really dont. I just want if they are going to put them in the store without restriction, just remove the restrictions on in ingame version. Don't let Jackblo over here pay $50 to get it right out of training when Sallysoso even if she had other chars and buys it right out of training has to wait until her crafting is almost maxed.

I even get that you can't make someone wait to use something they purchase as some people have claimed (even though you totally can, plenty of games have end game items or add-ons that you have to wait to use even if you paid for it). So if you can't make people wait for the paid one, just remove the wait from the in game ones.