Is 3,600 Champion Points too much of a grind?

olsborg · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

The cap should be much, much lower then 3.6k

It should be like 720 or something, that way you have to choose wich passives you want, win and looose, choice vs winall.

LameoveR · April 2015

You playing. You earn XP.
What's the problem?

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

LameoveR wrote: »

You playing. You earn XP.
What's the problem?

Well said, CP grind only becomes overwhelming if you think about the long term slog, and also if you want everything nooowwwww noowwwww.

You will get there at some point, enjoy the game as you do, kill things, get xp, rinse repeat.

liquid_wolf · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

ZOS likely needs to put in more "reward" systems that players can grind so they don't get so focused on the CPs. Even something like a reputation system might work.

You are not supposed to get all 3600 champion points. It isn't a goal... it is simply a bonus for your time and xp gains.

Think of it like the skill system in EVE Online... you'll never hit the end of it. You'll never know all the skills... and anytime you get close to it they add in another layer making you work on that.

FOREVER

david.haypreub18_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

You will get there at some point, enjoy the game as you do, kill things, get xp, rinse repeat.

Actually, more than 99% of players will never, ever get there. That's the whole problem.

Davadin · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

My question for those of you arguing that the best thing to do is just not think about it as a grind is this: do you think many new players will be able to do that? Do you not think that some will just look at the system, do some quick math to realize that they have virtually no hope of ever catching the people far ahead of them, and just decide to quit the game because they will never be able to catch up because they will never be on an equal playing field?

then it's ZOS's Marketing team's challenge to create an image that not having as many CP is NOT GAMEBREAKING for all the new players....

Davadin · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Huggernaut wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I thought VR ranks were a bit of a grind... now I find that the Champion Point system is far more soul-destroying than VR ever was.

Let me be clear: I have no problem with a game that rewards time and effort. Players who have put more time into the game should be able to gain advantages for all that effort. But 3600 point is just too much: it is a deterrent to anyone thinking of buying or playing the game to think that they will have to grind for literally years to get anywhere close to the more experienced players. At least with VR, the grind eventually ended; with CP, it virtually never will.

But maybe I am in the minority. What do you think?

I have no idea how anyone has voted NO so far.

3600 pts at roughly 2 a day let's say, that's 1800 days, or 4.9 years. How the flip is that not too much grind?

coz ur not supposed to gain CP as a goal. ur supposed to enjoy the actual content, and CP is just a bonus reward for enjoying those content.

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

You will get there at some point, enjoy the game as you do, kill things, get xp, rinse repeat.

Actually, more than 99% of players will never, ever get there. That's the whole problem.

True to a certain extent, but if you keep playing, you will get there at some point, obviously some people will fall from the path, and maybe the game will die.

It is what it is, maybe Zeni will relax the initiative making it more bearable for new comers or other people.

david.haypreub18_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is too much of a grind

Davadin wrote: »

coz ur not supposed to gain CP as a goal. ur supposed to enjoy the actual content, and CP is just a bonus reward for enjoying those content.

But the whole problem is it is not just a bonus; it makes some characters better than others. If it were purely cosmetic, it wouldn't be a problem. But 12% critical rating alone can easily make the difference between victory and defeat.

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

coz ur not supposed to gain CP as a goal. ur supposed to enjoy the actual content, and CP is just a bonus reward for enjoying those content.

But the whole problem is it is not just a bonus; it makes some characters better than others. If it were purely cosmetic, it wouldn't be a problem. But 12% critical rating alone can easily make the difference between victory and defeat.

Can see where you are coming from, but everyone in the game is better or not better than everyone else anyway, the vet ranks, gear, skill points, attributes etc etc etc, the entire game is a big case of who is where in this unspoken hierarchy, and that is where elitism comes in.

End of the day, its a game, we all bought it to enjoy, people will project into the game what they are personally are happy with.

It is what it is.

Muizer · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Well my take on the system is that most people will begin by spreading their points out, because of the massive diminishing returns. There will come a point, though, where returns have diminished across the board to a point where people will be tempted to single out a couple of passives to work towards. Only those will turn out to be hard to catch up with. Question is whether that's enough to make new players uncompetitive. I think ZoS don't intend that to be the case. I think their intention is to give long time players a sort of "perk" that's nice and occasionally will give you an edge in specific circumstances rather than superiority across the board.

Agobi · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

What grind are we talking about??

I am doing the exact same things ingame now as I was before they put these points in...so I can't say I have noticed a difference .

Think the problem is some players mindset,not the CP system

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2015

Wow players are still crying about having not enough CP..... That's kinda sad

Audigy · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Gaining points is not so much the problem, as for me a traditional UO person, time is relative and huge in regards of MMOs. I still don't have a VR 14 char, not even one in the VR´s - so for me this is not at all a problem.

However, to know that some people are able to exploit game mechanics to gain huge amounts of CP and that they then will discredit those like me with low or none CP, is already giving me a slight headache. These people will soon feel superior and content will be balanced based on their amount of CP´s and not those of Casuals or new gamers.
What are we with zero or less than 100 CP worth if new zones require 500CP or more to stand a chance there? What are we worth if we meet players with 500 CP in Cyrodil, while we don't have have 50?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

You don't have to or need to gain more than 100-200 so I believe the max is just an arbitrary max based on PTS

BrassRazoo · April 2015

Are you serious?

Suru · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Its not too much of a grind. There are only certain passives which people want to get to and then goals you want to be at which you have no rush to get to. Once you get 360 you now have access to everything you could want. Its not meant to be an all out grind race to 3600, but to be rewarded for your time as others have said. Rather than being vr14 and getting nothing.

timidobserver · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

I am a huge fan of the longview that they've taken on the Champion System. Sure some people do, but I don't even feel slightly inclined to "grind" up to 3600 points. I just take it as a way to reward me as I go about playing the game over the months.

The only thing they need to do to improve it is start to ramp the xp for lower level players eventually. They should do a query to find the average champion rank. Once they find it, divide it in half and increase the XP by 75% to reach that number.

miklawceb17_ESO · April 2015

Now, imagine how it must feel to people like me that don't get any enlightenment for some reason.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · April 2015

I know someone that hit 201 champion points recently, he advised "it's not that much of a grind, look at how many I have gotten (131) since 1.6 dropped..."

then he said "3399 to go..."

Makkir · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Maybe champ pts should be offered as campaign rewards too

Makkir · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lol at 68% of people.

LOL at the young "On Demand" generation of MMO gamers.

Ffastyl · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

My reason for my vote has been stated by many before me, so I won't

. (long term goal)

Sometime mid-Summer, a month or two after console release, ZOS will revisit the Champion System and rebalance it according to the data present at the time. Or so my gut tells me.
The end passives result in extremely powerful characters that the system is not balanced for. Chances are the end numbers are still the "paper" version rather than "practice." Adjusting those is as simple as adjusting the rate of growth from repeated investment - aka increasing the diminishing in diminishing returns. Right now the smallest increment of growth for passives is +0.3%, with a select few going down to +0.1% near the 100 points mark. Letting the increments become smaller decreases the overall effect of CS with little to no effect on the early stages (depending on what early is defined as).

Kelleton · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

They don't want people to max champ points...which is why its set at a crazy number.Its not an end goal its an endless climb the more you play, you are looking at it wrong.

Ley · April 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

I wish it was 7,200.

I wish it was uncapped.

Elloa · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Huggernaut wrote: »

I have no idea how anyone has voted NO so far.
3600 pts at roughly 2 a day let's say, that's 1800 days, or 4.9 years. How the flip is that not too much grind?

Because you are NOT SUPPOSED to grind it. Its supposed to give you some incentive, some bonus and some pleasure to see your character evolving slowly as you play it through the years.
Its not a goal to reach 3600 pts as fast as possible.

People have explained it very well in this thread. Champion point is a long term progression.

So just relax, and enjoy playing!

SHADOW2KK · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Elloa wrote: »

Huggernaut wrote: »

I have no idea how anyone has voted NO so far.
3600 pts at roughly 2 a day let's say, that's 1800 days, or 4.9 years. How the flip is that not too much grind?

Because you are NOT SUPPOSED to grind it. Its supposed to give you some incentive, some bonus and some pleasure to see your character evolving slowly as you play it through the years.
Its not a goal to reach 3600 pts as fast as possible.

People have explained it very well in this thread. Champion point is a long term progression.

So just relax, and enjoy playing!

Aye well said, said pretty much the same earlier in thread, glad to see there are other peeps of same wavelength.

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I thought VR ranks were a bit of a grind... now I find that the Champion Point system is far more soul-destroying than VR ever was.

Let me be clear: I have no problem with a game that rewards time and effort. Players who have put more time into the game should be able to gain advantages for all that effort. But 3600 point is just too much: it is a deterrent to anyone thinking of buying or playing the game to think that they will have to grind for literally years to get anywhere close to the more experienced players. At least with VR, the grind eventually ended; with CP, it virtually never will.

But maybe I am in the minority. What do you think?

Stop looking at it as something you NEED to obtain to compete. Its not, Its very small inkriments of progression and its designed to reward you for continueing to play. No one likes to hit that "im finished wall" this lets you keep building your character for a long time and a reason to keep pushing forward and even playing for some.

Its actually designed so most people will never obtain the max or finish it.

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

Personofsecrets wrote: »

lol at 68% of people.

SO you want it to be something you can complete right away so your character cannot get anymore powerful? no reason to keep going basically?

This is very small diminishing return rewards but you are getting slightly stronger and a reason to keep going.

Iluvrien · April 2015

3,600 Champion Points is not too much of a grind

CP are not there to provide grind-fodder and so aren't too much of a grind.

Honestly, I have stopped worrying about them. I don't watch the CP meter and I don't worry about whether I am going to be able to clear the arbitrary 1-per-day Enlightenment boost.

The direct result of this is that when the notification pops up it is a pleasant surprise that is an addition to my normal playing experience, not the goal of it.

I am pretty grumpy with ZOS at the moment for several reasons, but the Champion System? Now that is something they really have gotten right.