nirnhorned on armor broke the game

Laerwen · April 2015

Yuke wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

What was the tooltip damage on flamelash?

1979

the discrepancy is based on my ~30 points spent in elemental defender passive of the cp tree. It reduces fire damage for x% and the cyrodiil damage mitigation buff (20%).

So ~42% of tooltip damage with ~38k resistance. 20% of that resist is from cyro damage buff and ~10% from elemental damage reduction star. The remaining ~28% can be attributed to spell resistance? Who knows without further testing but everything has been so broken I havent had the time or willpower to mess with it.

babanovac · April 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Siege can now be stacked in your inventory.

Lies!

Cuddler · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Yet another PvP whine that will only result in misery for PvE players. If they gimp Nirnhoned, Light Armor users won't have any hope left!

Let's say ZoS nerfs Nirnhoned the way you guys are asking... what will really change? WIll the forums become a ghost town because PvP players are finally happy and have nothing to complain about? F*** NO! You guys will just move on to some other gripe, and PvE players will get the shaft AGAIN!

This tells me you don't do end-game PVE. People who do have their fair share of gripes, but low Spell Resistance is not one of them.

The two biggest PVE gripes I hear are (1) there is not enough content, and (2) whatever content we have is way too easy. It's already hard to find challenge in ESO PVE, and you want to trivialize it even more with a broken trait?

Ezareth · April 2015

Yuke wrote: »

battle leveling doesnt influence vr chars as far as i know

It's not battle levelling. It's scaling. You notice how your abilities get more expensive as you level? Base damage increases. All that kind of stuff.

There are examples of it where ZoS has confirmed this. Like Gina Bruno's comment on the "scaling" being fixed on Sharpened based on its level and Brian Wheeler giving the formula for Maximum Crit Resistance Mitigation at VR14.

As far as I know no one has ever tested to confirm exactly if scaling of these things is working as intended as most of the people hard core enough to actually test game mechanics are always max level and have zero interest in wasting time on testing lower level formulas.

I've seen several instances of screwed up numbers coming from Sub VR characters. Deltia Gaming's testing on Impenetrable Verus Reinforced that created the whole "OMG Reinforced is better than impenetrable on Light Armor" rage is one such example.

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time on this.
It would have been useful if you had actually tested this on a VR14 character. Lower VR1 scaling and piercing has always given messed up numbers.

A VR1 character needs far less spell piercing to pierce a higher amount of armor. Not all the piercing abilities scale correctly either. You ever see level 15 character running around with 35K hitpoints in Cyrodiil? Yeah that's how good ZoS is at getting scaling correct between VR levels.

Do some testing on a VR14 character. I was testing with full piercing (Legendary Nirnhoned, 5 Pc light armor, a few points into spell erosion but no Apprentice) and I was getting my damage cut in half by 40K (Believe my focus rating is 12600 or so).

If you want I can help you out on this. Got plenty of pieces of heavy/light w/ and w/o nirn.

I'd be down for this sometime later tonight. My last tests were interrupted by a group of DC *** who kept trying to gank me in the middle of my tests.

Nivzruo_ESO · April 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

^ This.

Laerwen · April 2015

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

Man, if that sorc had been wearing nirn, the fight might have lasted 10 seconds longer. Oh wait, I hope you guys werent two handers (doh!). Now that I think about it, that sorc was probably me.

Seroiusly though, 1.1m damage was done to his ward, ~16k was done to his actual health pool.

Which one would you focus your armor traits on? Magicka for your ward (99% of this sorcs mitigation pool) or nirn for your health (1% of this sorcs mitigation pool)?

This is exactly why nirn is bad for a ward based defense. The mitigation on paper is an illusion. Believe it.

Green food is tasty.

Emma_Overload · April 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Yet another PvP whine that will only result in misery for PvE players. If they gimp Nirnhoned, Light Armor users won't have any hope left!

Let's say ZoS nerfs Nirnhoned the way you guys are asking... what will really change? WIll the forums become a ghost town because PvP players are finally happy and have nothing to complain about? F*** NO! You guys will just move on to some other gripe, and PvE players will get the shaft AGAIN!

Let me understand this correctly.

You're a PvE player griping that PvPers in ESO are getting preferential treatment?

You understand you're about to be trolled, mocked, and generally laughed right off this forum, right?

"You're a PvE player griping that PvPers in ESO are getting preferential treatment?"

They DO. Every single patch has a long-assed "Alliance War" section, but every time PvE problems are mentioned in the forums, ZoS just says "no firm date, not until after console launch blah blah blah".

They can laugh all they want, but they're DELUSIONAL if they don't realize that PvE has been afflicted with nerf after nerf after NERF because of PvP crybabies.

Please name all the additional PVP content that has been released since the start of the game.

Please use citations and source your claims where applicable.

Just a few days ago PvP got a whole new siege weapon system that does s--t loads of damage... heck, I even got one in my freakin' mailbox, and I don't even know why or what to do with it! Do I really need to link to all the threads yacking about "Coldharbour Siege" or whatever it's called? Just a few weeks ago, PvP got a bunch of new abilities, not just tweaks of old ones, but BRAND NEW abilities like Vigor, for example. Do I need to provide links to all the DOZENS of threads arguing back and forth about whether Vigor is OP? Need I point out what a crock it is that stamina builds finally get a decent heal, but it's PvP-walled behind 6-12 month grind that would be a living nightmare for PvE players? As a PvE player, I don't get new toys... only NERFS. Please, don't even start with that.....

.

Oughash · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Just a few days ago PvP got a whole new siege weapon system that does s--t loads of damage... heck, I even got one in my freakin' mailbox, and I don't even know why or what to do with it! Do I really need to link to all the threads yacking about "Coldharbour Siege" or whatever it's called? Just a few weeks ago, PvP got a bunch of new abilities, not just tweaks of old ones, but BRAND NEW abilities like Vigor, for example. Do I need to provide links to all the DOZENS of threads arguing back and forth about whether Vigor is OP? Need I point out what a crock it is that stamina builds finally get a decent heal, but it's PvP-walled behind 6-12 month grind that would be a living nightmare for PvE players? As a PvE player, I don't get new toys... only NERFS. Please, don't even start with that.....

.

Craglorn
Upper Crag
Hel-Ra
Sanctum
(that other trial)
DSA + Vet DSA
How many vet dungeons now? Nine?
How many costumes? Mounts? Pets? Trials-only sets?

Please.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Yet another PvP whine that will only result in misery for PvE players. If they gimp Nirnhoned, Light Armor users won't have any hope left!

Let's say ZoS nerfs Nirnhoned the way you guys are asking... what will really change? WIll the forums become a ghost town because PvP players are finally happy and have nothing to complain about? F*** NO! You guys will just move on to some other gripe, and PvE players will get the shaft AGAIN!

Let me understand this correctly.

You're a PvE player griping that PvPers in ESO are getting preferential treatment?

You understand you're about to be trolled, mocked, and generally laughed right off this forum, right?

"You're a PvE player griping that PvPers in ESO are getting preferential treatment?"

They DO. Every single patch has a long-assed "Alliance War" section, but every time PvE problems are mentioned in the forums, ZoS just says "no firm date, not until after console launch blah blah blah".

They can laugh all they want, but they're DELUSIONAL if they don't realize that PvE has been afflicted with nerf after nerf after NERF because of PvP crybabies.

Please name all the additional PVP content that has been released since the start of the game.

Please use citations and source your claims where applicable.

Just a few days ago PvP got a whole new siege weapon system that does s--t loads of damage... heck, I even got one in my freakin' mailbox, and I don't even know why or what to do with it! Do I really need to link to all the threads yacking about "Coldharbour Siege" or whatever it's called? Just a few weeks ago, PvP got a bunch of new abilities, not just tweaks of old ones, but BRAND NEW abilities like Vigor, for example. Do I need to provide links to all the DOZENS of threads arguing back and forth about whether Vigor is OP? Need I point out what a crock it is that stamina builds finally get a decent heal, but it's PvP-walled behind 6-12 month grind that would be a living nightmare for PvE players? As a PvE player, I don't get new toys... only NERFS. Please, don't even start with that.....

.

...

Really?

Cold fire weaponry and the Assault/Support trees are your 'new content'?

Cold Fire weaponry which is not even a full on re-skin of what was already in game, just a palette swap on the fire effects and a different damage number.

Should we go on about how many goodies PVE players have received?

Your Honor, I present exhibit A: Craglorn

I could go on about all the specific things and individual stuff that's come about. How PVPers can't get their passives in the Undaunted tree without grinding tons of pledges and delves.

Ultimately, you show yourself as a poor troll. Begone.

Ezareth · April 2015

Laerwen wrote: »

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

Man, if that sorc had been wearing nirn, the fight might have lasted 10 seconds longer. Oh wait, I hope you guys werent two handers (doh!). Now that I think about it, that sorc was probably me.

Seroiusly though, 1.1m damage was done to his ward, ~16k was done to his actual health pool.

Which one would you focus your armor traits on? Magicka for your ward (99% of this sorcs mitigation pool) or nirn for your health (1% of this sorcs mitigation pool)?

This is exactly why nirn is bad for a ward based defense. The mitigation on paper is an illusion. Believe it.

As I said you're not telling me anything I'm not aware of. You're assuming that your shields are never breached or that the only time they are is when they die. I base all my math on the assumption that 90% of the damage done to me is done to my shields which is probably a little on the high side but close enough.

And Nirnhoned still comes out on top.

I'll repeat. Dead people kill no one.

Laerwen wrote: »

Green food is tasty.

Laerwen · April 2015

And Nirnhoned still comes out on top.

No, it doesnt.

Green food is tasty.

Oh thats right you use drinks. Lol.

Ezareth · April 2015

Laerwen wrote: »

And Nirnhoned still comes out on top.

No, it doesnt.

Green food is tasty.

Oh thats right you use drinks.

So you're basically saying you'd rather have 5K magicka than 710 Magicka Regen and 550 Stamina Regen?

5K Magicka is nice no doubt....but do you realize what those regen numbers do for you?

scy22b14_ESO · April 2015

Getting hit for 16k crystal frags, 10k+ curses, and 15k overload light attacks.

Nirhoned buffs on armor do not need to get nerfed. They're 100% needed in this game.

Ezareth · April 2015

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Getting hit for 16k crystal frags, 10k+ curses, and 15k overload light attacks.

Nirhoned buffs on armor do not need to get nerfed. They're 100% needed in this game.

And what do we have to stop the 22K Wrecking Blow and Lethal arrows? Should reinforced be changed to give 24% Increase to armor protection only *overall*?

scy22b14_ESO · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Getting hit for 16k crystal frags, 10k+ curses, and 15k overload light attacks.

Nirhoned buffs on armor do not need to get nerfed. They're 100% needed in this game.

And what do we have to stop the 22K Wrecking Blow and Lethal arrows? Should reinforced be changed to give 24% Increase to armor protection only *overall*?

You have the best survivability in the game, that's what.

Ezareth · April 2015

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Getting hit for 16k crystal frags, 10k+ curses, and 15k overload light attacks.

Nirhoned buffs on armor do not need to get nerfed. They're 100% needed in this game.

And what do we have to stop the 22K Wrecking Blow and Lethal arrows? Should reinforced be changed to give 24% Increase to armor protection only *overall*?

You have the best survivability in the game, that's what.

I see.

And a Magicka DK? A Magicka Templar? Magicka NB? What do they get? Their damage is halved but they're still stuck in garbage light armor with no way to prevent those 20K+ physical crits.

And PVE content. Should all magick damage done by bosses be doubled to compensate?

Xsorus · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Getting hit for 16k crystal frags, 10k+ curses, and 15k overload light attacks.

Nirhoned buffs on armor do not need to get nerfed. They're 100% needed in this game.

And what do we have to stop the 22K Wrecking Blow and Lethal arrows? Should reinforced be changed to give 24% Increase to armor protection only *overall*?

You have the best survivability in the game, that's what.

I see.

And a Magicka DK? A Magicka Templar? Magicka NB? What do they get? Their damage is halved but they're still stuck in garbage light armor with no way to prevent those 20K+ physical crits.

And PVE content. Should all magick damage done by bosses be doubled to compensate?

So you agree we should nerf sorcs down first then change nirnhoned.

Laerwen · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

And Nirnhoned still comes out on top.

No, it doesnt.

Green food is tasty.

Oh thats right you use drinks.

So you're basically saying you'd rather have 5K magicka than 710 Magicka Regen and 550 Stamina Regen?

5K Magicka is nice no doubt....but do you realize what those regen numbers do for you?

This is a whole different argument tbh and is highly dependent on your build. Blue food is nice too but I dont see any reason (for me) to use purple food or drinks. I dont need a larger stamina or health pool, and I dont need any more regen.

Regen is nice but with potions in my bag I can crushing shock your face, erm, your ball, spam shields, shards, and cc break indefinitely.

Pixysticks · April 2015

Laerwen wrote: »

with potions in my bag I can cc break indefinitely.

Laerwen · April 2015

Hi Pixy. Welcome back. When I fight you however, I dont need to cc break beacuse you are way too busy trying to push back my unrelenting onslaught to even cc me. Cute gif though.

I cant remember what cc break costs without reduction, but you need something like 1700 stam regen for a full cost cc break every 6 seconds.

Is that hard for you to come up with? I bet you hold block dont you? Tisk tisk.

Waylander · April 2015

Pixysticks wrote: »

1. Make Nirn's multiplier increase the respective piece's spell resist instead of your total.
2. Nerf Crystal Frag damage by 10%.
3. Buff magicka DKs, and add stam-based Lavawhip morph.
4. Add incremental cost to roll-dodging multiple times within a short period.
5. Reduce the DoT damage from siege to players by about 25%.
6. Fixed sharpened bug on weapon ignoring too much armor.

Game fix't.

^ This.

I would add
7. reduce time to kill overall (general dmg nerf or health boost in cyrodiil)
8. Fix the lag or if that is too hard to do, give us some instanced battlegrounds that the servers can handle. Most people seem to enjoy the smaller scale battles far more (for example 24 combatants as 8 v 8 v 8)

Pixysticks · April 2015

Laerwen wrote: »

Hi Pixy. Welcome back. When I fight you however, I dont need to cc break beacuse you are way to busy trying to push back my unrelenting onslaught to even cc me. Cute gif though.

I cant remember what cc break costs without reduction, but you need something like 1700 stam regen for a full cost cc break every 6 seconds.

Is that hard for you to come up with? I bet you hold block dont you? Tisk tisk.

But if you held block you could just push back their "unrelenting onslaught" while CCing them at the same time, lol.

I can't tell who the bigger troll is, you or Nala.

Laerwen · April 2015

Pixysticks wrote: »

Laerwen wrote: »

Hi Pixy. Welcome back. When I fight you however, I dont need to cc break beacuse you are way to busy trying to push back my unrelenting onslaught to even cc me. Cute gif though.

I cant remember what cc break costs without reduction, but you need something like 1700 stam regen for a full cost cc break every 6 seconds.

Is that hard for you to come up with? I bet you hold block dont you? Tisk tisk.

But if you held block you could just push back their "unrelenting onslaught" while CCing them at the same time, lol.

I can't tell who the bigger troll is, you or Nala.

Aww, you hurt me on the inside. Seriously though, ITT TIL Pixy holds block under his ward because well, he didnt want that stamina anyway.

trimsic_ESO · April 2015

I have 36k spell resist with 4 pieces of armor with Nirn, and I still get nuked by crystal fragment for 8k damage. So no the Nirn trait is not breaking the game. It's even a chance to have this trait.

Spangla · April 2015

Sorc is already massively op - this will make them more op.

Zos will probably listen to your madness as they enjoy making sorc op:)

Teargrants · April 2015

So much L2Logic issues right here.

scy22b14_ESO wrote: »

Getting hit for 16k crystal frags, 10k+ curses, and 15k overload light attacks.

Nirhoned buffs on armor do not need to get nerfed. They're 100% needed in this game.

You're listing unblocked crit damage while having no nirnhoned on. With nirnhoned those values are essentially halved while you continue to stand there not blocking like the target dummy you make yourself out to be. What is your response to physical damage burst which hits harder and has no comparable means of passive mitigation? Or shall I assume you are a stam build and have no problem w/ the double standard?

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I have 36k spell resist with 4 pieces of armor with Nirn, and I still get nuked by crystal fragment for 8k damage. So no the Nirn trait is not breaking the game. It's even a chance to have this trait.

And again, you complain about how much damage you take when you don't block? You complain about 8k magic damage as an OP nuke? What about the 19k lethal arrows? What about 7-8k heroic slashes?

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is already massively op - this will make them more op.

Zos will probably listen to your madness as they enjoy making sorc op:)

So insightful, I can take a discussion about an armor trait that applies to everyone and make it into a class QQ too:

Stam NB already massively op - keeping nirnhoned like this will keep them so op.

Zos will probably not listen to your concerns as they enjoy making stam NB op:)

Ifthir_ESO · April 2015

has anyone beat serpent trial hard mode?

Ezareth · April 2015

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

has anyone beat serpent trial hard mode?

I still haven't beat Hell Ra Citadel normal model (if there is such a thing).

Who does that stuff anyways? Unless it's going to give me loots that make my overload more powerful or allow me to Bolt Escape further I'm not interested in putting on my Robe and Wizard hat.

(I was just logged out of the forums and thought I was banned again....sigh)

Huntler · April 2015

Me wearing nirn:

Ezareth · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Me wearing nirn:

Yup.

I Ran into Benzyboy's templar yesterday. My overloads were hitting him for 1000 damage through block. He just ignored me and barrel rolled away as I dumped most of my ultimate bar into him.

ZoS really took the cake with this one.