nirnhorned on armor broke the game

Nala_

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Sypher

Yes. What was Zos thinking? ... You don't even have to try and you basically negate 50% of incoming magick damage... Without even blocking.

technohic

The meta is still swinging wildly away from magicka and into stamina based builds. This is something I think (or hope) would be an oversight and not intentional, but I have to wonder how long it will last..

Ezareth

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Finally something we can agree on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any word on this? You're going to have another Nirnhoned blowup on your hands and this bug has just as much of an impact possibly more than the last one if most people switch to it and then it is finally fixed as that could be very expensive.

Huntler

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

While I wasn't aware until recently, I think this has been in game since introduction of 1.6. The last patch just made the problem more prevalent because the sharpened bug let your average caster ignore ~22k spell resists.

babanovac

Ezareth wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Finally something we can agree on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any word on this? You're going to have another Nirnhoned blowup on your hands and this bug has just as much of an impact possibly more than the last one if most people switch to it and then it is finally fixed as that could be very expensive.

This is not a bug. It's pretty clear from the description of the trait that it's suppose to increase total resists. "Increases spell resistance" vs "Increases armour value of this item"

Sypher

babanovac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Finally something we can agree on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any word on this? You're going to have another Nirnhoned blowup on your hands and this bug has just as much of an impact possibly more than the last one if most people switch to it and then it is finally fixed as that could be very expensive.

This is not a bug. It's pretty clear from the description of the trait that it's suppose to increase total resists. "Increases spell resistance" vs "Increases armour value of this item"

Yes, it isn't a bug. Still something that is ridiculously over powered. No one can argue that it isn't.

loki547

babanovac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Finally something we can agree on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any word on this? You're going to have another Nirnhoned blowup on your hands and this bug has just as much of an impact possibly more than the last one if most people switch to it and then it is finally fixed as that could be very expensive.

This is not a bug. It's pretty clear from the description of the trait that it's suppose to increase total resists. "Increases spell resistance" vs "Increases armour value of this item"

So what? It's working as intended but it's still breaking the game.

Ifthir_ESO

if spell pen and spell erosion wasnt constantly broken this would be less of an issue but still is rough especially when they use annulment as well (any morphs)

eliisra

Add cheap skills like Harness Magicka and Defensive Posture to the mix. There's so many ways to completely negate and minimize spell dmg, while nothing of that kind is available against physical attacks.

Than there's the CP system. Not only does it offer a flat spell resist, but you can also put points in to reduce all kinds of elemental dmg (which comes from 99% spells).

Give me a trait that offers 0% reduced physical dmg please. Give me a 20 sec shield that absorbs physical dmg. Give me a skill that reflects physical projectiles.

These days only sorcerers and templar healers still run magicka builds in PvP. Don't think I've grouped with a magicka based NB, DK or templar dps in weeks.

Curious if it's intentional? Otherwise, great job there with the diversity ZoS.

Ezareth

babanovac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Finally something we can agree on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any word on this? You're going to have another Nirnhoned blowup on your hands and this bug has just as much of an impact possibly more than the last one if most people switch to it and then it is finally fixed as that could be very expensive.

This is not a bug. It's pretty clear from the description of the trait that it's suppose to increase total resists. "Increases spell resistance" vs "Increases armour value of this item"

Actually it is pretty clear that it *is* a bug. The real issue is this displays a classical disconnect from the people who are designing balance changes (Eric Wroebel + PR Team) and whoever the hell is coding these changes on the back end. I could cite many examples of this occurring and based upon my past observed interactions with them it is not surprising at all. I can't really even blame them.

Here are the 1.6.3 patch notes by Gina

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Traits
Increased the value of the Nirnhoned Trait so it is 50% stronger than the Reinforced Trait for armor.

Nirnhoned is *not* 50% stronger than the Reinforced Trait for armor. It is many many times stronger than Reinforced. It is obvious that they *believe* it is impacting only the armor piece and not overall resistance.

The simple fact is that you can get a total 201% increase to your adjusted base spell resistance right now from the nirnhoned trait is freaking ridiculous. Keep in mind this is a *trait* providing far more protection than the actual piece of armor. It makes 1.5 Impenetrable look weak by comparison.

To put it in perspective if there were a similar option for Armor right now I would be sporting maximum physical mitigation right now wearing 5 pieces of light armor.

trimsic_ESO

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

Erock25

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

Lol I love posts like this. Really brighten my day.

loki547

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

Pets have a cast time, kill his pets and interrupt him whenever he tries to cast them rinse repeat. Honestly this sounds like a learn to play issue. Move along.

trimsic_ESO

loki547 wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

This morning my friend and I have fought a sorcerer who had all the shields and a few pets. The fight has lasted for 5 minutes or so. Of course at the end we managed to kill him, depleting his stamina pool whenever possible.

Then we had a look at the recount logs, and saw that I did 480k+ damage, and my friend did 630k+ damage. Therefore, in order to kill that sorc, we dealt more than 1100k damage.

So, I can understand your frustration about the nirn stuff. But the top priority is to balance the game and solve the shield stacking issue first. Magicka classes are ridiculously overpowered because of that.

Pets have a cast time, kill his pets and interrupt him whenever he tries to cast them rinse repeat. Honestly this sounds like a learn to play issue. Move along.

What do you think we did? Pickup the flowers?

Kaghei

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

What do you think we did? Pickup the flowers?

you gotta make money some how

Huntler

Think you guys are clearly overreacting, I mean... I got killed by this sorc once where he crit fragged me really hard. So... nirn is balanced.

Ezareth

Posting in Nerf Sorc thread #203,688

King Bozo

Its not breaking the game. Crafters need some type of reward for researching all those traits.

Valnas

it's been in a while but pen was working (read, it was penetrating armor a LOT) so we didn't really care that much that ppl who stacked resist needed to be double or even triple penetrated to get sorted. Now it's all [snip] because they balanced the game, skills, and classes based on meta's and player nub comment cards instead of fixing the bugs we've been reporting since last march. No surprise the game is in an unplayable state everytime you 'fix' something now ...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Emma_Overload

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Reinforced isn't worth jack on Light Armor, and you want to remove the only trait Light Armor wearers can use to significantly mitigate damage?

No, thanks!

Ezareth

King Bozo wrote: »

Its not breaking the game. Crafters need some type of reward for researching all those traits.

Yes because there are better things to spend the endless supply of gold we get on. The reward for researching nirnhoned traits is the ability to craft Twice Born star sets and the fact you can tack another couple K onto the selling price of your nirncrux by selling crafted items for research.

If giving any player who cares to go through the effort maximum *passive* magicka damage reduction isn't breaking the game, I don't know what is. The only people you're going to see defending this are the guys who have already crafted and are already using this bug.

Come to think of it I'm sure the impact of this in PvE right now is pretty strong as well.

Ley

They really don't want magic builds to be particularly appealing.

xaraan

Eh, I think changing this would require other parts of the game to be changed. The reason there are spell penetration passives on things like weapons, armor passives and champion passives is to equalize this a bit and why there are not as many armor penetration options as there are spell resist penetration ones.

Emma_Overload

Sypher wrote: »

Yes. What was Zos thinking? ... You don't even have to try and you basically negate 50% of incoming magick damage... Without even blocking.

You've never heard of Heavy Armor, have you? You can hit the 50% hard cap pretty easily with 7/7 Reinforced Heavy + Shield + Breton passive + CP invested in spell resistance.

Ezareth

xaraan wrote: »

Eh, I think changing this would require other parts of the game to be changed. The reason there are spell penetration passives on things like weapons, armor passives and champion passives is to equalize this a bit and why there are not as many armor penetration options as there are spell resist penetration ones.

Except the existing Spell Penetration options *do not work* well.

I was doing Spell Penetration testing on a *Vampire* (+9%) Sorc with 7500(The bare minimum possible without being naked) spell resist using Light Armor (~5000 penetration), 2% Spell Erosion, Legendary Nirnhoned Staff (18% Spell Penetration) and my spells were hitting for 83% of tooltip damage instead of 109%.

Someone testing against me with a single puncture ability virtually pierced all 12000 of my armor and was hitting me for almost maximum tooltip damage.

Sharpened and Nirnhoned penetration bugs masked the true issue of ridiculous resistance levels and without these bugs Magic damage is extremely weak.

Leovolao

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Nala_ wrote: »

please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.

Reinforced isn't worth jack on Light Armor, and you want to remove the only trait Light Armor wearers can use to significantly mitigate damage?

No, thanks!

Lol you are just clueless in every post you make.

Sypher

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Yes. What was Zos thinking? ... You don't even have to try and you basically negate 50% of incoming magick damage... Without even blocking.

You've never heard of Heavy Armor, have you? You can hit the 50% hard cap pretty easily with 7/7 Reinforced Heavy + Shield + Breton passive + CP invested in spell resistance.

I'm referring to the people hitting the 50% cap in light/medium or a mix of it. I understand heavy has the capabilities.

Ifthir_ESO

itt sorcs arguing with all others about sorcs vs non sorcs

xaraan

Ezareth wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Eh, I think changing this would require other parts of the game to be changed. The reason there are spell penetration passives on things like weapons, armor passives and champion passives is to equalize this a bit and why there are not as many armor penetration options as there are spell resist penetration ones.

Except the existing Spell Penetration options *do not work* well.

I was doing Spell Penetration testing on a *Vampire* (+9%) Sorc with 7500(The bare minimum possible without being naked) spell resist using Light Armor (~5000 penetration), 2% Spell Erosion, Legendary Nirnhoned Staff (18% Spell Penetration) and my spells were hitting for 83% of tooltip damage instead of 109%.

Someone testing against me with a single puncture ability virtually pierced all 12000 of my armor and was hitting me for almost maximum tooltip damage.

Sharpened and Nirnhoned penetration bugs masked the true issue of ridiculous resistance levels and without these bugs Magic damage is extremely weak.

Well, if they aren't working well, maybe that's the real fix. Instead of completely changing nirnhoned, something people have paid/worked toward acquiring to be barely worth more than reinforced (something easily obtainable) they should focus on getting spell pen to work better.

babanovac

So in the first place everyone complains that damage is out of control since 1.6, with hits above 10k being the norm, but when you actually have a very expensive counter that can make fights last longer than 2 seconds everyone complains again.

Make up your minds people. Is there too much damage or too much mitigation in the game?