ZoS Screwed me over hard

Gromzok · April 2015

So i am one of the ppl that took ZoS on their offer to buy PC version and transfer to PS4 version once it is released.
Now almost a year later i get email about transfer but i learn i cant transfer to PS4 from Serbia only to Xbox One!?

Here is answer from ZoS support:

Greetings ******!

Thank you for contacting us regarding purchasing a console transfer. I am very sorry to inform you that the transfer to PS4 is not available in Serbia. I can only offer my deepest apologies for this inconvenience.

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
Matthew
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So i am asking you ZoS what the hell am i supposed to do now!?
I invested tons of money and time so that you would break your promise and screw me over!?
Continuing on PC is not an option!

newtinmpls · April 2015

I'm sad to hear about your frustrating experience.

I do not know the laws and regulations that would pertain to what is available to what gaming platform in Serbia (or any other country, really).

The closest experience I have would be when I worked for the mail room in a major US corp, and around the christmas holidays, on bringing some parcels to the post office, found out there were strange (to me, anyway) limits on what shape/size package could be sent to certain countries. There was a "max size" but it was based on something like height + length + width, so some longish thin things got blocked where fairly hefty packages could go. It made no sense.

Neither does this.

However, my understanding was that ZOS really wants to sell/run/access their game on as many platforms/countries as possible. I don't think that they deliberately mis-represented things. However they could have been way overly optimistic.

Myself - I don't see the appeal in a console - but that's probably because I really really really like keyboards and addons.

I wish you luck.

Dekkameron · April 2015

I think you should probably direct your anger maybe towards sony or weird Serbian legistration not ZOS i dunno

Gromzok · April 2015

Dekkameron wrote: »

I think you should probably direct your anger maybe towards sony or weird Serbian legistration not ZOS i dunno

Sorry but this is ZoS fault in this case for not providing us with all information before we invested time and money.

newtinmpls · April 2015

Looking online, I can find plenty to support the idea that PS4 is generally NOT region locked. which means that this might be some weird restriction from the country - as it apparently is not likely to be something either ZOS or Sony have much to do with.

Gromzok · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Looking online, I can find plenty to support the idea that PS4 is generally NOT region locked. which means that this might be some weird restriction from the country - as it apparently is not likely to be something either ZOS or Sony have much to do with.

I have UK PSN account for like 8 years now and i never had any issues playing online, downloading and buying digital games on it.

newtinmpls · April 2015

Gromzok wrote: »

I have UK PSN account for like 8 years now and i never had any issues playing online, downloading and buying digital games on it.

And have you transfered games/data from Serbia to that system before? Is this a change?

I'm curious to know how it works.

Gromzok · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Gromzok wrote: »

I have UK PSN account for like 8 years now and i never had any issues playing online, downloading and buying digital games on it.

And have you transfered games/data from Serbia to that system before? Is this a change?

I'm curious to know how it works.

Not sure what u mean by that.
There is no Serbian PSN and that's why i use UK PSN but i never had any issues ever in almost 10 years!

newtinmpls · April 2015

I do not know what a PSN is. Is the use of it how you are playing on a PC?

The information you posted seemed to imply that you are functionally a legal resident of Serbia, and that because of that you fall under some sort of restriction, but only in terms of the PS4 (that I know of).

I don't know if most of the time it would even matter exactly what country you were in - if that country was part of a greater union/ commonwealth or other grouping. I was thinking it might be in a practical sort of way similar to the various states of America not really having much distinction in terms of what they could order/download and so on.

Territories of the USA might be treated differently.

firstdecan · April 2015

Gromzok wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Looking online, I can find plenty to support the idea that PS4 is generally NOT region locked. which means that this might be some weird restriction from the country - as it apparently is not likely to be something either ZOS or Sony have much to do with.

I have UK PSN account for like 8 years now and i never had any issues playing online, downloading and buying digital games on it.

There's your answer right there. Your PSN account is linked to another country.

A quick search shows there is no Serbian support for PSN (http://rs.playstation.com/legal/psn-availability.html).

Maybe if you explain to Customer Service that your PSN account is a UK account they can transfer it.

seanvwolf · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Myself - I don't see the appeal in a console - but that's probably because I really really really like keyboards and addons.

Consoles can use keyboard and mouse peripherals.

@Gromzok
I thought PSN services were not available in Serbia. Did you create the PSN account using a different country address or the one in Serbia? You do need to use the same address in your billing and transfer information for future reference.

Gromzok · April 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

I do not know what a PSN is. Is the use of it how you are playing on a PC?

The information you posted seemed to imply that you are functionally a legal resident of Serbia, and that because of that you fall under some sort of restriction, but only in terms of the PS4 (that I know of).

I don't know if most of the time it would even matter exactly what country you were in - if that country was part of a greater union/ commonwealth or other grouping. I was thinking it might be in a practical sort of way similar to the various states of America not really having much distinction in terms of what they could order/download and so on.

Territories of the USA might be treated differently.

PSN is short of Playstation Network it is a network similiar to Steam except each region/country has it's own network that is updated individually.
For example Playstation Store for UK region might have some content that US version doesnt have and other way around.
Since Serbia doesnt have it's own version of Playstation Network i am using UK version and i never had any issues with it in almost 10 years.
I pay for PS+ i buy digital games and i play online without any problems and i am pretty sure Sony doesnt mind it cause i am giving them money.

newtinmpls · April 2015

And addons?

I would totally miss those on a console.

Oh, and thanks firstdecan for the insight into how the PSN thing might be playing out.

Danikat · April 2015

There's been quite a few topics on this. Apparently it's to do with Sony only allowing this in specific regions. One of those is Europe but they seem to be using their own definition of Europe which doesn't include all European countries. I've had a quick look online but I've been unable to find a list of where is and isn't included.

Here's an official response:

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

Bumbuliuz wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Bumbuliuz wrote: »

Has anyone happen to them that they can only see the Xbox One upgrade but not the PS4 one?

A few pages back official mod commented on this

Hmmm I went trough the tread and didn't find anything about it. I'm really happy with this move from ESO, I just would love to be able to buy the PS4 transfer.

Hey everyone. For those seeing only the Xbox One transfer option and not the PlayStation 4 option, this is due to your country of residence not being included in the SCEA (Sony Computer Entertainment America) and SCEE (Sony Computer Entertainment Europe) regions. Please refer to this knowledge base article for a list of the countries that are eligible for the transfer to PS4.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1717390/#Comment_1717390

Gromzok · April 2015

Danikat wrote: »

There's been quite a few topics on this. Apparently it's to do with Sony only allowing this in specific regions. One of those is Europe but they seem to be using their own definition of Europe which doesn't include all European countries. I've had a quick look online but I've been unable to find a list of where is and isn't included.

Here's an official response:

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

Bumbuliuz wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Bumbuliuz wrote: »

Has anyone happen to them that they can only see the Xbox One upgrade but not the PS4 one?

A few pages back official mod commented on this

Hmmm I went trough the tread and didn't find anything about it. I'm really happy with this move from ESO, I just would love to be able to buy the PS4 transfer.

Hey everyone. For those seeing only the Xbox One transfer option and not the PlayStation 4 option, this is due to your country of residence not being included in the SCEA (Sony Computer Entertainment America) and SCEE (Sony Computer Entertainment Europe) regions. Please refer to this knowledge base article for a list of the countries that are eligible for the transfer to PS4.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1717390/#Comment_1717390

Again this is clearly ZOS fault because they announced this without working out all details with Sony and therefore not informing customers on eligibility!

Gromzok · April 2015

They should take responsibility for it and provide us with alternate solution to this problem!

Keron · April 2015

I see this as breach of contract. If you can prove that your /played on the PC is "extraordinary circumstance" or something like technically not possible to continue and prove that you brought up this point (playing PS4 in Serbia) at your initial purchase, you could get at least reimbursed for the money you paid.

If not, I guess you are out of luck. I'm not very shocked at their behaviour, though. Most other companies would probably have reacted with an ex gratia reimbursement, but I doubt that will happen here.

Gromzok · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

I see this as breach of contract. If you can prove that your /played on the PC is "extraordinary circumstance" or something like technically not possible to continue and prove that you brought up this point (playing PS4 in Serbia) at your initial purchase, you could get at least reimbursed for the money you paid.

If not, I guess you are out of luck. I'm not very shocked at their behaviour, though. Most other companies would probably have reacted with an ex gratia reimbursement, but I doubt that will happen here.

They wont refund me and i dont expect it.
I played what i paid for but as a company they should take responsibility for screwing over their customers by providing them with alternate solution.
They said ANYONE that purchases ESO before XX date will be eligible to transfer to console of their choice.
That is misinformation on their part and it doesnt matter if they didnt know about this back then it is still their fault for promising something without working out all the details.

seanvwolf · April 2015

seanvwolf wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Myself - I don't see the appeal in a console - but that's probably because I really really really like keyboards and addons.

Consoles can use keyboard and mouse peripherals.

@Gromzok
I thought PSN services were not available in Serbia. Did you create the PSN account using a different country address or the one in Serbia? You do need to use the same address in your billing and transfer information for future reference.

Sorry, didn't scroll down before replying.

newtinmpls · April 2015

Well you are eligible to transfer to the console of your choice - ZOS would totally let you do that - the problem is that the country you live in apparently blocks such things.

Yes, it's frustrating.

As for "should have known", I don't think it's realistic to expect perfect understanding of the potentially slippery rules and regulations (and changes) of who knows how many countries.

If all they knew about you was 1-you were a current PSN customer and 2-you lived in country X, then I don't get how they could predict or expect that problem.

Tandor · April 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

Maybe if you explain to Customer Service that your PSN account is a UK account they can transfer it.

This has to be worth a try, failing which you still have a fully functional PC version. I don't see how you could claim any losses if you have been playing that version as you've been getting value from it the same as everyone else. You could try and argue that you were misled, but the fact that you only opened a UK PSN account because you couldn't open one in Serbia would seem to suggest that you knew what the situation was anyway. It's unfortunate, but I don't see it being down to ZOS that there isn't a PSN service in Serbia and you didn't need them to tell you that because you already knew it.

I don't see how they could be said to have a duty in law to warn players in advance that using another country's service to get around a lack of service in their own country would not be acceptable, but that's really the only point you could argue in my view, in the event that they don't accept your UK PSN account.

seanvwolf · April 2015

Gromzok wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

I see this as breach of contract. If you can prove that your /played on the PC is "extraordinary circumstance" or something like technically not possible to continue and prove that you brought up this point (playing PS4 in Serbia) at your initial purchase, you could get at least reimbursed for the money you paid.

If not, I guess you are out of luck. I'm not very shocked at their behaviour, though. Most other companies would probably have reacted with an ex gratia reimbursement, but I doubt that will happen here.

They wont refund me and i dont expect it.
I played what i paid for but as a company they should take responsibility for screwing over their customers by providing them with alternate solution.
They said ANYONE that purchases ESO before XX date will be eligible to transfer to console of their choice.
That is misinformation on their part and it doesnt matter if they didnt know about this back then it is still their fault for promising something without working out all the details.

Eligible doesn't mean gauranteed. When I turned 16 I was eligible to drive but I had to get a driver's license and insurance to do so legally.

Gromzok · April 2015

Tandor wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Maybe if you explain to Customer Service that your PSN account is a UK account they can transfer it.

This has to be worth a try, failing which you still have a fully functional PC version. I don't see how you could claim any losses if you have been playing that version as you've been getting value from it the same as everyone else. You could try and argue that you were misled, but the fact that you only opened a UK PSN account because you couldn't open one in Serbia would seem to suggest that you knew what the situation was anyway. It's unfortunate, but I don't see it being down to ZOS that there isn't a PSN service in Serbia and you didn't need them to tell you that because you already knew it.

I dont need a fully functional PC version i bought it only cause i wanted to transfer to PS4 once it is released.

Yes i didnt need them to tell me that there is no PSN in Serbia but fact remains that tons of ppl use US or UK accounts cause their countries dont have local PSN version and none of them had any issues with anything until now with ESO.

Gromzok · April 2015

seanvwolf wrote: »

Gromzok wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

I see this as breach of contract. If you can prove that your /played on the PC is "extraordinary circumstance" or something like technically not possible to continue and prove that you brought up this point (playing PS4 in Serbia) at your initial purchase, you could get at least reimbursed for the money you paid.

If not, I guess you are out of luck. I'm not very shocked at their behaviour, though. Most other companies would probably have reacted with an ex gratia reimbursement, but I doubt that will happen here.

They wont refund me and i dont expect it.
I played what i paid for but as a company they should take responsibility for screwing over their customers by providing them with alternate solution.
They said ANYONE that purchases ESO before XX date will be eligible to transfer to console of their choice.
That is misinformation on their part and it doesnt matter if they didnt know about this back then it is still their fault for promising something without working out all the details.

Eligible doesn't mean gauranteed. When I turned 16 I was eligible to drive but I had to get a driver's license and insurance to do so legally.

Actually u where eligible to try and get drivers license not drive.

KhajitFurTrader · April 2015

Gromzok wrote: »

but fact remains that tons of ppl use US or UK accounts cause their countries dont have local PSN version

Given this fact that you yourself admit to, how can you uphold that "ZOS screwed you over hard", when all that CS ever did was telling you the plain, naked truth?

newtinmpls · April 2015

Well, according to the terms of service to register for a PSN:

Which I found here: https://account.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/info/terms-of-use.action?displayBackButtons=false

"ACCOUNT REGISTRATION

To access First Party Services, you must create an Account. You may view content on certain Authorized Devices depending on your country/area of residence and the First Party Services you are using. "Authorized Devices" means your Authorized Download Devices and your Authorized Streaming Devices as defined below in relation to First Party Services."

Which stinks.... but there you are

pronkg · April 2015

Okay so wait, Zenimax offers a service on another platform.

The other platform is not available in your country,

Zenimax should inform it's customers that Sony has no service in your country?

Sorry but this is not and never how it works in the country where I'm from.

It's your own responsibility to get informed about your own situation.

ZoS only provides the product not the platform on which it runs.

The platform is not available in your country so you can't use it.

Call sony

Gromzok · April 2015

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Gromzok wrote: »

but fact remains that tons of ppl use US or UK accounts cause their countries dont have local PSN version

Given this fact that you yourself admit to, how can you uphold that "ZOS screwed you over hard", when all that CS ever did was telling you the plain, naked truth?

Oh yeah they told me the truth after 11 months and after i gave them money.
Here is a quote:

We know that the news of an ESO console delay is as disappointing to many of you as it is to us. We want to do what we can to make it up to our fans who want to start playing now, so we have worked out the following arrangement with Sony and Microsoft:

Via a special offer, anyone who purchases and activates the PC/Mac version of The Elder Scrolls Online by 6/30/14 (11:59pm UTC) will have the opportunity to transfer their character(s) to either console version when they are released. The offer will allow you to begin playing immediately on the PC/Mac, and then add the PS4 or Xbox One version and transfer the character(s) you have created and developed. And, you don’t have to pay full price for the game twice. For $20, eligible PC and Mac players will have the option to add a full, digital version of ESO on either the PS4 or the Xbox One with your character transfer(s), and another 30 days of included game time.

If they care about their players they will try to help us out with this and if they dont... well i am already looking for new MMO cause i doubt they care.

newtinmpls · April 2015

Again ... you have the opportunity. ZOS would happily let you transfer your characters FROM them to a PS4 or Xbox One.

It would seem pointless to try and transfer to something that is not legal/available where you are.

So that rules out the PS4.

Is the Xbox One platform (or however it would be phrased) available in Serbia?

KhajitFurTrader · April 2015

It's still your responsibility to educate yourself about regional terms and conditions that apply to you. And then tell CS about any deviations that you chose to take to gain access to a service that isn't available in your country.

All CS ever did is lookup the address information of your account, compare it with the chart of PSN availability, and then tell you their findings. How on earth are they supposed to know that you lied about your country of origin when you created your PSN account?

seanvwolf · April 2015

Gromzok wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

Eligible doesn't mean gauranteed. When I turned 16 I was eligible to drive but I had to get a driver's license and insurance to do so legally.

Actually u where eligible to try and get drivers license not drive.

That's true. So you tried to get the console transfer but couldn't because of other circumstances. ZOS doesn't have it out for you. It's not in their best interest to spurn you. There are obviously some limitations. As I said, is your billing address in Serbia?

Zenimax itself is an intellectual property company so maybe they are taking extra precautions. From their own words:

"Intellectual property forms the foundation of our business." - Zenimax CEO Robert Altman, May 21 2014
A statement made when Zen filed suit against Oculus founder. So yea... you're dealing with legal eagles.