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Beware entitlement game modification
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Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just bring on the P2W alliance rank potions... I've capitalized enough in my real life to throw my money at a cash shop. Or maybe I'm just "entitled." Yup. That's it. I'm entitled to throw my money wherever I want, because my time is more expensive than grinding alliance ranks on a few alts.
Furthermore sure he is okay with Crown CP pots, but not Crown AR pots. Because he has obviously reached or nearly reached AR 24+, but nowhere near max CP. But I'm sure his attitude would change if he was near max CP and he had nothing to gain from those CP Pots.
I love topics like this that call everyone who disagrees (enter random shaming name). It's definitely myopic in scope and shows the OP is looking to shame others into agreeing with him instead of having an open adult discussion. No wonder the mods had to rename it.
Actually I said I am not sure about AR pots. I have seen xp pots work in other games without giving an unfair advantage, and until someone brought them up, i hadn't considered them.
As to having reached or nearly reached AR 24, I will have you know that tonight I got very close to AR 6. Still a few points shy of being able to unlock purge.
And please, the mods shortened the thread name and took out "I want, I want" because they felt it was ...actually it never made sense to me.
You make a lot of assumptions and clearly they are not correct. Maybe you should consider that next time.0 -
LordSkyKnight✭✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »So now its hell and back leveling up huh? If you guys think the game is "hell" why on earth do you play it?
We aren't...people get to VR2 or VR1 and quit. We are back cause there is no sub. I quit in June
Who are these "people" you speak of? Ive been playing since launch. Hell before launch. Many of my friends as well.
I also quit at VR2 and came back after B2P. I am one that he speaks of.
Ok so you two. Anyone else? lol Or should we change the entire game just for you guys?
Where did I say change the game? I just answered your question and if you think it was only 2...I just dont know what to say except carry on. Enough people quit that the game went B2P.
But since you bring it up if they changed the game like I want it they would have to start over.
There is it is again. That silly conjecture on why they changed the payment model. It had absolutely nothing to do with people like you leaving. You weren't paying them money after you quit and you sure aren't paying anything now. So basically you and your type are still drains on resources while playing for free. If I would hazard a guess, they changed payment models because Microsoft refused to work with them on the Xbox live subscription for ESO as had Sony already did.
Edited by LordSkyKnight on April 11, 2015 5:34AM"And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all."
- Matt Firor0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »So now its hell and back leveling up huh? If you guys think the game is "hell" why on earth do you play it?
We aren't...people get to VR2 or VR1 and quit. We are back cause there is no sub. I quit in June
Who are these "people" you speak of? Ive been playing since launch. Hell before launch. Many of my friends as well.
I started at pre-launch with four other friends. All of us well engaged in our careers, but play MMOs to get away and zone out. All of us quit between VR1 and VR4. I was the only one to return 9 months later. Even though it is P2P, they aren't coming back due to the grind. Which is fine. There do need to be grinds. However, repeating those grinds on alts is borderline torture and might be compared to waterboarding by some.
Khaldar, I do agree with you on the Veteran Ranks. They make leveling an alt to play competitively in AvA challenging to say the least. With Vet Ranks being removed, then the barrier to entry is gone. I just don't think going beyond this to Alliance Ranks, Achievements, etc is good for the game long term. I don't feel they are necessary to play the game, be competitive, and enjoy it. If everything worth working towards becomes easy, there is much less sense of accomplishment in the game for me. I don't want to see these watered down.1 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZoS go on give them account wide everything. Make it a 50,000 crown buy to unlock account wide sharing. But the rest of us get to play the game our way without account wide. Problem solved.
Yes..take us directly to pay2win, do not pass go, do not collect..1 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »
Why not, not like the kiddies won't get what they are asking for.
Oh and the one's that keep saying Microsoft wouldn't work with ZoS on subs, do you have any links to prove that?“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »
Why not, not like the kiddies won't get what they are asking for.
Oh and the one's that keep saying Microsoft wouldn't work with ZoS on subs, do you have any links to prove that?
http://www.vg247.com/2013/08/27/bethesda-pushing-microsoft-on-playing-elder-scrolls-online-without-xbox-live-gold-subscription/
It didn't go well.Edited by Elijah_Crow on April 11, 2015 6:01AM0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »
Why not, not like the kiddies won't get what they are asking for.
Oh and the one's that keep saying Microsoft wouldn't work with ZoS on subs, do you have any links to prove that?
http://www.aerosvitcargo.com/microsoft-persists-xbox-live-gold-subscription-required-for-elder-scrolls-online/0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And now we are back in the middle of the discussion from the other thread, which I would have preferred to have continued there, but anyways. This is the only point where I actually have a different opinion then you in regards to this overall topic.Elijah_Crow wrote: »
I don't deny the skills are worth working towards, I just don't believe that by achieving these on one character means you should automatically have them on every character.
Don't presume so much. Yes, vigor has exacerbated the discrepancy, but level two battle frenzy alone already is and always has been an incredibly strong talent making a huge difference. Also, you had to reach alliance rank 18 for the first level of battle frenzy and alliance rank 16 for barrier. All of those are incredibly strong talents that have a huge influence on AvA or character strength in general.Elijah_Crow wrote: »
Vigor. How can you claim that a skill just added to the game recently is so important and unbalancing that it makes it impossible to compete in PvP?
You may want to rethink that statement. It may be more true like this:Elijah_Crow wrote: »No, I don't. There is a lot of power disparity between a VR1 and VR14 due to levels and gear tiers. There is not a great disparity between a VR14 alliance rank 1 and a VR14 alliance rank 50.Elijah_Crow wrote: »...There is not a great disparity between a VR14 alliance rank 24 and a VR14 alliance rank 50.
There are two types of players: One has the option to play long hours and frequently. The other has limited play time. Lets leave it at this distinction and not go into any reasons for it.
For Type 1, your point of view is more sensible - he has the option to actually build a second character up to this stage within reasonable time scale. For Type 2, my point of view is more sensible - he may be reluctant to explore a second character because with his limited time he would need another year of bringing that second character up to the same level.
I am one of the Type 2 players, hence my only gripe with the alliance rank restriction. If the skills/passives would unlock for all my chars, I would enjoy it very much. Even though I have limited time, I AM an avowed altaholic. Besides those Vet Rank chars in the signature, I have 5 others in different level of development. I work full time, am married and even though I am in game far too often to suit wifey, I still manage at most 4 hours a day on maybe three days a week. And still - I have made progress on the alliance war rank front, and that even with my admittedly limited skillset and reluctance to join groups because of voice chat ban at home (she at least wants to be able to talk to me
).
Try to see this from my point of view. It took me almost a year (I play since early release, with a three month break prior to 1.6) to reach AR19 on my nightblade. Right now I would very much prefer to play the DK, just for sake of variation - but I can't. I want that self healing skill for my nightblade to make her the solo beast I envision her to be.
And that, in very many words, is the reason why I would like to have the discussion open, to have my highest Aliiance War Rank apply to any and every character I bring into veteran ranks, without giving me the skill points or the actual rank, only to unlock the skills.
I am also a type two player. As I said I am not yet AR6 and I still have to respectively disagree with you. I would like to have vigor, be emperor, and have my SWG Elder Jedi back, but I don't have time for those things in the short term. I also don't NEED them to have fun. Particularly if having them myself lessens the achievement for everyone else. I will get them (minus the Elder Jedi and most likely Emperor) eventually and until then it's a goal to strive for and a motivation to keep going. It will be all the more satisfying when I get there.
I mentioned my Elder Jedi in SWG. This was when I had a lot more time to game "hard core" and for those that know, pre pub 9 Jedi were very powerful. It was a tough thing to achieve at the time and took a long time to accomplish and years later I remember the accomplishment.
That's the point of this thread. It's okay to have difficult long term objectives worth achieving even if everyone cannot have them quickly. It's important to have things to strive for and when you simplify a game or make it too easy, you lose those moments of accomplishment. I would like to see some skills, etc remain rare so when you encounter a character with that ability, you recognize it and their accomplishment.Edited by Elijah_Crow on April 11, 2015 5:13PM0 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »The sense of entitlement and desire for instant gratification can destroy a game. If you have little effort to achieve, you will appreciate it proportionally.
Forget the game, just look at Society.
I blame parents. And the Communists. And the person who thought up giving trophies to kids just for showing up. And the individual who started the movement away from the proper balance of negative and positive reinforcement in child rearing.
All positive reinforcement = setting your kid up for failure. STAAAAAHP IT, WORLD. Disappointment and failure are parts of life and should fuel motivation, not cause progress to come to a screeching halt because little Johnny or Suzy didn't get their way.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT0 -
desciviib14_ESO✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »The sense of entitlement and desire for instant gratification can destroy a game. If you have little effort to achieve, you will appreciate it proportionally.
Forget the game, just look at Society.
I blame parents. And the Communists. And the person who thought up giving trophies to kids just for showing up. And the individual who started the movement away from the proper balance of negative and positive reinforcement in child rearing.
All positive reinforcement = setting your kid up for failure. STAAAAAHP IT, WORLD. Disappointment and failure are parts of life and should fuel motivation, not cause progress to come to a screeching halt because little Johnny or Suzy didn't get their way.
Ummmm.....once you said the communists I became unsure if you are being sarcastic or not. I can't fathom the communists have anything to do with account wide achieves. Even if they did allow for some achieves account wide it would still have zero to do with your post.There is nothing here of interest to any nations; as a matter of fact, there is nothing here but people.0 -
desciviib14_ESO✭✭✭this thread can't really be anything other than an argument because it is basically 2 different perspectives of what is fun and OP started the "discussion" off by calling the other point of view names. I'm just watching for fun but nothing to be learned hereThere is nothing here of interest to any nations; as a matter of fact, there is nothing here but people.1
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Arthur_Spoonfondle✭✭✭✭
Wanting achievements on all your characters, because you got them on one, is just lazy, simple as that.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »
once something is unlocked for your character, just like the champion points, and also the dye-achievements unlock - it should be account wide for ALL the unlocked acheivements, it hurts no one and is fair for all people
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Suru✭✭✭✭Skyshards and lorebooks i dont care about. I have 7 vr14s. 2 on DC, one rank 25 Alliance war. One rank 17. On AD i have 4 vr14 I actively play as I rerolled to AD. Only one is rank 24 and the others ill never reach. (One vr14 EP that i dont play). At some point it SHOULD BE account wide. ILL NEVER get vigor on my other characters. Do you know how hard it it to get rank 10. Ive done it twice and you're saying i should do it 3 more times. Do you know the exponential math in what it takes to get from alliance war 6 to 10(ranks 20 to 24)? Its too much. The average player could never do and even for the hardcore player. Ive done the work necessary.Edited by Suru on April 11, 2015 11:19PM
Suru0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skyshards and lorebooks i dont care about. I have 7 vr14s. 2 on DC, one rank 25 Alliance war. One rank 17. On AD i have 4 vr14 I actively play as I rerolled to AD. Only one is rank 24 and the others ill never reach. (One vr14 EP that i dont play). At some point it SHOULD BE account wide. ILL NEVER get vigor on my other characters. Do you know how hard it it to get rank 10. Ive done it twice and you're saying i should do it 3 more times. Do you know the exponential math in what it takes to get from alliance war 6 to 10(ranks 20 to 24)? Its too much. The average player could never do and even for the hardcore player. Ive done the work necessary.
This is exactly the point of the thread. You feel you are entitled to this ability on all of your characters.
I firmly believe that there should be abilities in the upper tier that no reasonable player could hope to achieve on many characters. They are meant to be special.
There should be things when achieved by focusing on one activity or form of advancement on one character which are worth achieving knowing that you may never repeat the achievement.
How easy do you make it? Where do you draw the line? If it's not something a casual player can complete on 4 characters in 3 months? 8 characters?
Edited by Elijah_Crow on April 12, 2015 2:50AM1 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Elijah_Crow Forgive me for not reading all of the posts, so if this was said.... I'm sorry for repeating.
When a player plays an MMO(or many) for a long time, the standards set become "normal"....for example, the ability to buy a top level character, top level gear, even something as simple as a haircut for your toon(free), or a place to call home(free).
As long as other MMO's offer such, players will continue to expect them if they spent any time playing anything else. Entitlement maybe, but more because its what's normal for each said player vs just wanting it all for nothing.If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Psychobunni wrote: »
As long as other MMO's offer such, players will continue to expect them if they spent any time playing anything else. Entitlement maybe, but more because its what's normal for each said player vs just wanting it all for nothing.
I think this would be a more accurate sentance if it was phrased "normal for each said player TO want it all for nothing" with the caveat of "on all subsequent characters"
My reasons for not wanting this are more .... well call it caffineation or metaphysics.
I think that the point of individual effort is ... individual effort. Many of us (well, those posting here) inherently live more and more in a "cut and paste" mass produced sort of world. There is no real individual effort. Even in grad school, I'm urged to use proper APA form which means to credit and to build upon (and basically to USE) all the efforts/research of those who have gone before.
One thing I value in my role playing games (and for me, whatever else this is, it is a role play) are the unique things that my character does - and sometimes that s/he doesn't do. My bosmer(gobln) is a horrible pickpocket. My Altmer started as a rather party-line racist and has grown from that.
I really admire the person who made the comment about some abilties are only meant to be acheivable by a very few characters - and that making them account wide cheapens them. That is not an easy stance, but it makes those acheivments more valued.
I am the "me" behind my various characters. Perhaps in the same way that there is an overarching soul behind all the incarnations of "me" in this reality. But I am not the Dalai Lama - I don't have access to all my past reincarnations. Neither are any of my characters the Dalai Lama - they do not have full access to "me". So no, none of their acheivments should be account - wide.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Psychobunni wrote: »@Elijah_Crow Forgive me for not reading all of the posts, so if this was said.... I'm sorry for repeating.
When a player plays an MMO(or many) for a long time, the standards set become "normal"....for example, the ability to buy a top level character, top level gear, even something as simple as a haircut for your toon(free), or a place to call home(free).
As long as other MMO's offer such, players will continue to expect them if they spent any time playing anything else. Entitlement maybe, but more because its what's normal for each said player vs just wanting it all for nothing.
I don't disagree with you. I do believe many MMOs are becoming much to easy. I'm all for 85% of the content in any game to be able to be completed by a casual solo player. I want to preserve those areas or items which take dedication worth perusing.1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »Psychobunni wrote: »@Elijah_Crow Forgive me for not reading all of the posts, so if this was said.... I'm sorry for repeating.
When a player plays an MMO(or many) for a long time, the standards set become "normal"....for example, the ability to buy a top level character, top level gear, even something as simple as a haircut for your toon(free), or a place to call home(free).
As long as other MMO's offer such, players will continue to expect them if they spent any time playing anything else. Entitlement maybe, but more because its what's normal for each said player vs just wanting it all for nothing.
I don't disagree with you. I do believe many MMOs are becoming much to easy. I'm all for 85% of the content in any game to be able to be completed by a casual solo player. I want to preserve those areas or items which take dedication worth perusing.
a casual solo player wont be reaching AR24+:/ I've played PvP with my VR14 for 6 months and she just hit AR17 a day ago.(8 months when counting haderus)
alright ill shut up now, just wanted to point that out, since that seems to be the logic you are defending your position with.Edited by Cody on April 12, 2015 4:33AM0 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hmm...a level 3 player scampering around khenarthi's roost sporting 'enemy of coldharbour' or 'daedric lord slayer' and displaying 'former emperor'?
doesn't seem quite right.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hmm...a level 3 player scampering around khenarthi's roost sporting 'enemy of coldharbour' or 'daedric lord slayer' and displaying 'former emperor'?
doesn't seem quite right.
Of course not ... I have yet to get out of Cold Harbor without hitting at least 4th level.
sheesh the logic of some people
/spaz mode offTenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »Psychobunni wrote: »@Elijah_Crow Forgive me for not reading all of the posts, so if this was said.... I'm sorry for repeating.
When a player plays an MMO(or many) for a long time, the standards set become "normal"....for example, the ability to buy a top level character, top level gear, even something as simple as a haircut for your toon(free), or a place to call home(free).
As long as other MMO's offer such, players will continue to expect them if they spent any time playing anything else. Entitlement maybe, but more because its what's normal for each said player vs just wanting it all for nothing.
I don't disagree with you. I do believe many MMOs are becoming much to easy. I'm all for 85% of the content in any game to be able to be completed by a casual solo player. I want to preserve those areas or items which take dedication worth perusing.
a casual solo player wont be reaching AR24+:/ I've played PvP with my VR14 for 6 months and she just hit AR17 a day ago.(8 months when counting haderus)
alright ill shut up now, just wanted to point that out, since that seems to be the logic you are defending your position with.
Cody, you are absolutely welcome to share your opinion. I am okay with having some things in game attainable by dedicated players that I myself may never reach. Then again, if I end up playing for 3 years i might get there at some point. I like having those things to strive for and i think it's important for many reasons including long term player retention.Edited by Elijah_Crow on April 12, 2015 5:51AM1