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nirnhorned on armor broke the game
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Itoq✭✭✭✭they made nirnohed like it is because magika builds can hit too hard from range
When is the last time a non-sorc hit you hard from range with a magicka skill and without taking 3.1 seconds and with you at low health* to do it?
* Not counting netcode and/or bug issues with CC and/or multiple hits hitting you within three-quarters of a second.
Edited by Itoq on April 9, 2015 1:30AM2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They said numerous times that hitting the resistance hard caps would be possible but require you to dedicate yourself to it. Doing only 4 pieces of nirhoned is NOT dedicating to it so I wouldn't count on that staying any longer than the snail pace it will take for them to fix it.
Just brace yourself PvEers. I know that you will want to blame PvPers for it, but it should happen regardless.3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Due to 1.6's changes in stats, the scaling thereof and removal of Soft cap, Nirnhoned had to be changed. I'll let you in on a little secret as to what ZoS originally did with Nirnhoned, I know this because I'm one of the ones who >TESTED< it on PTS. Nirnhoned was made to be exactly what it states, 50% more value than what Reinforced on that very item would be. If Reinforced gave you +100 Armor, then Nirnhoned would give you +150 Spell Resistance. And like with anything ZoS does it wasn't fleshed out properly. There was only ONE single Armor item that gave a grand total of 1% actual Spell Resistance increase, Heavy - Legendary - Chest came it at a dismal +649 Resistance with Nirnhoned on it.No single trait available on 8 pieces of armor should multiply *any* stat on your character sheet by 24% no matter the scenario.
Nirnhoned is currently the best trait for caster weapons by a slim margin. I'm fine with Nirnhoned armor being the same ....but not by a factor of 4 or 5.
What that meant was that items like Light or even Medium Belts and Gloves would have an actual Spell Resistance of less than 0.5%. In other words, completely useless. Even with all 7 pcs being Nirnhoned at Legendary you would barely make up the value of a single Resistance Glyph on a single Jewelry item, which is 3.4% for specific Resistance. Compounding this problem is ZoS STILL hasn't fixed the Champion System as well as Set Bonuses to scale properly. For 1.6 it's supposed to be 1 Resistance for every single 1 Armor your Character has, but it doesn't work that way at all. To put it in simpler terms, if you had 26,420 Armor you should have 26,420 Spell Resistance (the minimum value needed to reach Hard cap with both Wards active), if you weren't wearing anything that boosted Resists or had any points in Spell Shield.
Unfortunately since ZoS hasn't fixed everything properly it doesn't work that way, forcing PvE Tanks and any Player who wishes to PvE as a Vampire to invest in 1-2 Nirnhoned off-pcs plus often times putting 15-50+ points into Elemental Defender and even then often (1-2) Fire glyphs to make up the absurd lack of scaling for Spell Resistance as per what ZoS said it should be when 1.6 hit. Without a single Nirnhoned on my PvE Tank I run ~27K Armor (without Wards) and ~21K Spell Resistance even though it should be equal. Now I should point out that ZoS ninja changed Nirnhoned body to what it is today from what it was when 1.6 went Live, and I'm not sure when they did it. The way it was at launch was beyond horrible and now it's just about right (for PvE).
As for PvP all I gotta say is boohoo that some Players are learning to use the system for them and take ~50% less damage from others to the point that they have to come here and cry about it. If said Players are actually exploiting and figured out some way to nullify Spell Damage (without Shields) using Nirnhoned and whatever other combination, then yes that needs to be looked at, but ZoS needs to NOT nerf Nirnhoned just because of cheaters (if that's what's happening) but instead find them, deal with them, and fix it so they can't cheat any more.2 -
Valnas✭✭✭✭
Due to 1.6's changes in stats, the scaling thereof and removal of Soft cap, Nirnhoned had to be changed. I'll let you in on a little secret as to what ZoS originally did with Nirnhoned, I know this because I'm one of the ones who >TESTED< it on PTS. Nirnhoned was made to be exactly what it states, 50% more value than what Reinforced on that very item would be. If Reinforced gave you +100 Armor, then Nirnhoned would give you +150 Spell Resistance. And like with anything ZoS does it wasn't fleshed out properly. There was only ONE single Armor item that gave a grand total of 1% actual Spell Resistance increase, Heavy - Legendary - Chest came it at a dismal +649 Resistance with Nirnhoned on it.No single trait available on 8 pieces of armor should multiply *any* stat on your character sheet by 24% no matter the scenario.
Nirnhoned is currently the best trait for caster weapons by a slim margin. I'm fine with Nirnhoned armor being the same ....but not by a factor of 4 or 5.
What that meant was that items like Light or even Medium Belts and Gloves would have an actual Spell Resistance of less than 0.5%. In other words, completely useless. Even with all 7 pcs being Nirnhoned at Legendary you would barely make up the value of a single Resistance Glyph on a single Jewelry item, which is 3.4% for specific Resistance. Compounding this problem is ZoS STILL hasn't fixed the Champion System as well as Set Bonuses to scale properly. For 1.6 it's supposed to be 1 Resistance for every single 1 Armor your Character has, but it doesn't work that way at all. To put it in simpler terms, if you had 26,420 Armor you should have 26,420 Spell Resistance (the minimum value needed to reach Hard cap with both Wards active), if you weren't wearing anything that boosted Resists or had any points in Spell Shield.
Unfortunately since ZoS hasn't fixed everything properly it doesn't work that way, forcing PvE Tanks and any Player who wishes to PvE as a Vampire to invest in 1-2 Nirnhoned off-pcs plus often times putting 15-50+ points into Elemental Defender and even then often (1-2) Fire glyphs to make up the absurd lack of scaling for Spell Resistance as per what ZoS said it should be when 1.6 hit. Without a single Nirnhoned on my PvE Tank I run ~27K Armor (without Wards) and ~21K Spell Resistance even though it should be equal. Now I should point out that ZoS ninja changed Nirnhoned body to what it is today from what it was when 1.6 went Live, and I'm not sure when they did it. The way it was at launch was beyond horrible and now it's just about right (for PvE).
As for PvP all I gotta say is boohoo that some Players are learning to use the system for them and take ~50% less damage from others to the point that they have to come here and cry about it. If said Players are actually exploiting and figured out some way to nullify Spell Damage (without Shields) using Nirnhoned and whatever other combination, then yes that needs to be looked at, but ZoS needs to NOT nerf Nirnhoned just because of cheaters (if that's what's happening) but instead find them, deal with them, and fix it so they can't cheat any more.
you lost me when you showed you actually don't understand how nirnhoned is working on live. in the first. sentence. it's modifying base.
I'm sitting at 38k spell resist and 17k phys in 5 lt right now thanks to 3 nirn in a sp dmg build. they're balancing this game drunk with hammers in the dark . don't worry. a few more patches.Edited by Valnas on April 9, 2015 2:52AMFluph Head EP sorc dank magus
valnäs EP nb
opHotterslol AD dk5 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.
Reinforced isn't worth jack on Light Armor, and you want to remove the only trait Light Armor wearers can use to significantly mitigate damage?
No, thanks!
Lol you are just clueless in every post you make.
Really? How am I clueless? Light Armor sucks, and adding Reinforced trait to sucks still equals sucks. At least with Nirnhoned, you can amplify the Spell Resistance you get from abilities, racial passives and gear set bonuses.
Because light armor doesn't "suck."
It's incredibly good for magicka, it just leaves your more vulnerable to physical damage, which can be mitigated by making it reinforced. Adding 2 pieces of heavy is a good idea too.
If you do it right, you can add a lot of survivability, while still running a magicka efficient, mainly light armor build.
I don't have any nirn on my armor, and I'm pretty survivable.
If wearing nirn is the only way you can survive in pvp, I would suggest you reevaluate your build
I don't care about PvP, and I don't wear any Nirnhoned armor currently. My 9th traits haven't finished researching on Light Armor, and I'm too cheap to pay someone else for it. But when my Nirnhoned traits ARE ready to be crafted, I sure as hell don't want to find out it's been gimped because of PvP whining!
If you don't care about pvp, then perhaps I could direct you to any one of the numerous ESO forums that are not dedicated to the Alliance War?
Not that I'm trying to imply that your opinion isn't completely valid and important, on a pvp forum, though you don't pvp, on a nirn trait thread, when you don't wear nirn...
It's threads like these that are the source of nearly every problem with PvE. Every time the developers actually respond to a whining campaign like this, thousands of PvE players are screwed by the resulting nerf. Please don't tell me my opinion isn't relevant when PvP whines have completely gutted the Sorcerer class, for example, and they STILL haven't quit asking for more nerfs!
.Edited by Emma_Overload on April 9, 2015 5:50AM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.
Finally something we can agree on.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any word on this? You're going to have another Nirnhoned blowup on your hands and this bug has just as much of an impact possibly more than the last one if most people switch to it and then it is finally fixed as that could be very expensive.
This is not a bug. It's pretty clear from the description of the trait that it's suppose to increase total resists. "Increases spell resistance" vs "Increases armour value of this item"
Well then the values need adjusting to give like 8 to 10% on a gold item at max. Nirn on Armor is a joke - combine that with champ system physical/stamina bias and there is no reason to play magica based at all.So in the first place everyone complains that damage is out of control since 1.6, with hits above 10k being the norm, but when you actually have a very expensive counter that can make fights last longer than 2 seconds everyone complains again.
Make up your minds people. Is there too much damage or too much mitigation in the game?
People are complaining that there is basically free 50% reduction on spelldmg whereas it is not possible to achieve the same against physical builds...
Understand the problem - post a comment afterwards. Helps.Edited by Derra on April 9, 2015 5:59AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Due to 1.6's changes in stats, the scaling thereof and removal of Soft cap, Nirnhoned had to be changed. I'll let you in on a little secret as to what ZoS originally did with Nirnhoned, I know this because I'm one of the ones who >TESTED< it on PTS. Nirnhoned was made to be exactly what it states, 50% more value than what Reinforced on that very item would be. If Reinforced gave you +100 Armor, then Nirnhoned would give you +150 Spell Resistance. And like with anything ZoS does it wasn't fleshed out properly. There was only ONE single Armor item that gave a grand total of 1% actual Spell Resistance increase, Heavy - Legendary - Chest came it at a dismal +649 Resistance with Nirnhoned on it.No single trait available on 8 pieces of armor should multiply *any* stat on your character sheet by 24% no matter the scenario.
Nirnhoned is currently the best trait for caster weapons by a slim margin. I'm fine with Nirnhoned armor being the same ....but not by a factor of 4 or 5.
What that meant was that items like Light or even Medium Belts and Gloves would have an actual Spell Resistance of less than 0.5%. In other words, completely useless. Even with all 7 pcs being Nirnhoned at Legendary you would barely make up the value of a single Resistance Glyph on a single Jewelry item, which is 3.4% for specific Resistance. Compounding this problem is ZoS STILL hasn't fixed the Champion System as well as Set Bonuses to scale properly. For 1.6 it's supposed to be 1 Resistance for every single 1 Armor your Character has, but it doesn't work that way at all. To put it in simpler terms, if you had 26,420 Armor you should have 26,420 Spell Resistance (the minimum value needed to reach Hard cap with both Wards active), if you weren't wearing anything that boosted Resists or had any points in Spell Shield.
Unfortunately since ZoS hasn't fixed everything properly it doesn't work that way, forcing PvE Tanks and any Player who wishes to PvE as a Vampire to invest in 1-2 Nirnhoned off-pcs plus often times putting 15-50+ points into Elemental Defender and even then often (1-2) Fire glyphs to make up the absurd lack of scaling for Spell Resistance as per what ZoS said it should be when 1.6 hit. Without a single Nirnhoned on my PvE Tank I run ~27K Armor (without Wards) and ~21K Spell Resistance even though it should be equal. Now I should point out that ZoS ninja changed Nirnhoned body to what it is today from what it was when 1.6 went Live, and I'm not sure when they did it. The way it was at launch was beyond horrible and now it's just about right (for PvE).
As for PvP all I gotta say is boohoo that some Players are learning to use the system for them and take ~50% less damage from others to the point that they have to come here and cry about it. If said Players are actually exploiting and figured out some way to nullify Spell Damage (without Shields) using Nirnhoned and whatever other combination, then yes that needs to be looked at, but ZoS needs to NOT nerf Nirnhoned just because of cheaters (if that's what's happening) but instead find them, deal with them, and fix it so they can't cheat any more.
you lost me when you showed you actually don't understand how nirnhoned is working on live. in the first. sentence. it's modifying base.
I'm sitting at 38k spell resist and 17k phys in 5 lt right now thanks to 3 nirn in a sp dmg build. they're balancing this game drunk with hammers in the dark . don't worry. a few more patches.
This is pretty much the case of 80-90% of the comments on the forums any more and it's really annoying me. People just hop in, have no idea what the thread is about, make a lot of assumptions and then are usually wrong with their own understanding of things and pass judgement.
I really think the forum moderation in ESO should assume the Elitist Jerks style of forum moderation.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube3 -
Winnamine✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »please make nirn increase the spell resist an individual piece of armor gives, just like reinforced, not increases your total spell resist by X%. i think half the people i know have all gone stam because this last patch made magicka builds useless.
Reinforced isn't worth jack on Light Armor, and you want to remove the only trait Light Armor wearers can use to significantly mitigate damage?
No, thanks!
Lol you are just clueless in every post you make.
Really? How am I clueless? Light Armor sucks, and adding Reinforced trait to sucks still equals sucks. At least with Nirnhoned, you can amplify the Spell Resistance you get from abilities, racial passives and gear set bonuses.
Because light armor doesn't "suck."
It's incredibly good for magicka, it just leaves your more vulnerable to physical damage, which can be mitigated by making it reinforced. Adding 2 pieces of heavy is a good idea too.
If you do it right, you can add a lot of survivability, while still running a magicka efficient, mainly light armor build.
I don't have any nirn on my armor, and I'm pretty survivable.
If wearing nirn is the only way you can survive in pvp, I would suggest you reevaluate your build
I don't care about PvP, and I don't wear any Nirnhoned armor currently. My 9th traits haven't finished researching on Light Armor, and I'm too cheap to pay someone else for it. But when my Nirnhoned traits ARE ready to be crafted, I sure as hell don't want to find out it's been gimped because of PvP whining!
If you don't care about pvp, then perhaps I could direct you to any one of the numerous ESO forums that are not dedicated to the Alliance War?
Not that I'm trying to imply that your opinion isn't completely valid and important, on a pvp forum, though you don't pvp, on a nirn trait thread, when you don't wear nirn...
It's threads like these that are the source of nearly every problem with PvE. Every time the developers actually respond to a whining campaign like this, thousands of PvE players are screwed by the resulting nerf. Please don't tell me my opinion isn't relevant when PvP whines have completely gutted the Sorcerer class, for example, and they STILL haven't quit asking for more nerfs!
.
Rofl
Oh god, that's funny. You think they care about pvp.
Listen, you know all the pve content that has come out in the past year? Craglorn...upper Craglorn....Justice System...Undaunted Quests...new dungeons...the list goes on.
In pvp, we're still waiting for that Imperial City they promised us, or dueling grounds, or an arena, or a fix to the lag that makes it nearly unplayable, for god's sake we waited over a month for a fix to the FPS bug which routinely put everyone's FPS down to like, 4, or less. There was a bug that caused the purge skill to one shot entire groups if they were standing in AOE. Took them what? 3 months? to fix that one.
Yeah, they'll probably read our concerns here and hotfix nirnhoned tomorrow.
They love us
Winni
~
VE
Decibel5 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭What advantage does magicka melee have in this game? any?
harness magicka
spell resist class passives
nirnhoned
no sneak attacks
this list could get really big.
WHY are there so many extra defenses against spells in this game? Is it because this was designed before 1.6?1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Im running around with 4x nirn on armor (37K spellresists) and sorces still hit me for 13k dmg cf and 7k course. Now imagine this without nirnhoned --> kkthxbb
But i can understand that all other magicka classes, which cannot stack damage, like sorces can, cry about nirn.
ESO pvp is broken atm and im not talking about lag issues.
These are crits, and you mitigate alot of it....not worth whining about imo.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
babanovac✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
This needs to be understood by all sorcs out there. There are no magicka DKs, templars or NBs that can do this. If nirn is to be nerfed this kind o damage needs to be nerfed too. No matter how much you guys think it's normal to get hit by 10k with 40%-50% spell resist, IT IS NOT.
Nerf nirn. But nerf high damage abilities too, so that people don't die in 2 shots anymore.2 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
its great - i realy like fighting you but this is so fu..ingly biased its unbelieveable
[comparing average values to blue moon hits 
] my avarage frag on you is ~3,5k dmg(at 25k magica+2300Spelldmg) witch can skyrocket when i´m having the luck incidently hitting you with a nearly depleted replenishing barrier provided by glory wich negates you spellresists for that attack. otherwise its like throwing wet noodles at you while eating 9-10k crit rushes Edited by Tankqull on April 9, 2015 8:28AMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
andy_s✭✭✭✭Nerf nirn. But nerf high damage abilities too, so that people don't die in 2 shots anymore.
This. Five nirnhoned pieces really help to survive meteor spam in cyrodiil lags...
World's First Cloudrest Hardmode + Speed Run + No Death w/ HODORTick-Tock Tormentor & All vHoF Achievements done w/ ChimairaWorld's First Sanctum Ophidia Difficult Mode (patch 1.5)World#2 vMoL All Achievements w/ Aquila Raiders0 -
All these people crying for nerfs and buffs are mainly whats ruining the game.0
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
Chances are lava whip will be powered by the same thing, since magicka builds tend to use
Similar abilities.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
babanovac✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
PC EU
PvP only0 -
babanovac✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Due to 1.6's changes in stats, the scaling thereof and removal of Soft cap, Nirnhoned had to be changed. I'll let you in on a little secret as to what ZoS originally did with Nirnhoned, I know this because I'm one of the ones who >TESTED< it on PTS. Nirnhoned was made to be exactly what it states, 50% more value than what Reinforced on that very item would be. If Reinforced gave you +100 Armor, then Nirnhoned would give you +150 Spell Resistance. And like with anything ZoS does it wasn't fleshed out properly. There was only ONE single Armor item that gave a grand total of 1% actual Spell Resistance increase, Heavy - Legendary - Chest came it at a dismal +649 Resistance with Nirnhoned on it.No single trait available on 8 pieces of armor should multiply *any* stat on your character sheet by 24% no matter the scenario.
Nirnhoned is currently the best trait for caster weapons by a slim margin. I'm fine with Nirnhoned armor being the same ....but not by a factor of 4 or 5.
What that meant was that items like Light or even Medium Belts and Gloves would have an actual Spell Resistance of less than 0.5%. In other words, completely useless. Even with all 7 pcs being Nirnhoned at Legendary you would barely make up the value of a single Resistance Glyph on a single Jewelry item, which is 3.4% for specific Resistance. Compounding this problem is ZoS STILL hasn't fixed the Champion System as well as Set Bonuses to scale properly. For 1.6 it's supposed to be 1 Resistance for every single 1 Armor your Character has, but it doesn't work that way at all. To put it in simpler terms, if you had 26,420 Armor you should have 26,420 Spell Resistance (the minimum value needed to reach Hard cap with both Wards active), if you weren't wearing anything that boosted Resists or had any points in Spell Shield.
Unfortunately since ZoS hasn't fixed everything properly it doesn't work that way, forcing PvE Tanks and any Player who wishes to PvE as a Vampire to invest in 1-2 Nirnhoned off-pcs plus often times putting 15-50+ points into Elemental Defender and even then often (1-2) Fire glyphs to make up the absurd lack of scaling for Spell Resistance as per what ZoS said it should be when 1.6 hit. Without a single Nirnhoned on my PvE Tank I run ~27K Armor (without Wards) and ~21K Spell Resistance even though it should be equal. Now I should point out that ZoS ninja changed Nirnhoned body to what it is today from what it was when 1.6 went Live, and I'm not sure when they did it. The way it was at launch was beyond horrible and now it's just about right (for PvE).
As for PvP all I gotta say is boohoo that some Players are learning to use the system for them and take ~50% less damage from others to the point that they have to come here and cry about it. If said Players are actually exploiting and figured out some way to nullify Spell Damage (without Shields) using Nirnhoned and whatever other combination, then yes that needs to be looked at, but ZoS needs to NOT nerf Nirnhoned just because of cheaters (if that's what's happening) but instead find them, deal with them, and fix it so they can't cheat any more.
you lost me when you showed you actually don't understand how nirnhoned is working on live. in the first. sentence. it's modifying base.
I'm sitting at 38k spell resist and 17k phys in 5 lt right now thanks to 3 nirn in a sp dmg build. they're balancing this game drunk with hammers in the dark . don't worry. a few more patches.
@DeLindsay is the guy who figured out the math behind nirnhoned in PTS. Any understanding we have is largely based on his knowledge.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
babanovac✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.
26k out of stealth WB by a guarateedcrit by cloak from a NB so farspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.
Same here. Around 25K physical resistance and spell resistance at hard-cap and a few days ago I was hit by a 16K Crystal Fragment. I think that's fair though, as they are reflectable and will deal even more damage to the caster compared to Wrecking Blow that can't even be interrupted.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.
Same here. Around 25K physical resistance and spell resistance at hard-cap and a few days ago I was hit by a 16K Crystal Fragment. I think that's fair though, as they are reflectable and will deal even more damage to the caster compared to Wrecking Blow that can't even be interrupted.
These large crystal fragments hits on heavy armor are in 99% of the cases a result of an absorbshield on the victim.
If you have an absorbshield with say 500 dmg left (barrier, healward, anything really...) a 10k procced fragements will hit the shields 500 dmg unmitigated. For the second hit on your HP the system does NOT check mitigation again leading to 9.5k x 1.5 unmitigated critical dmg landing on a 40k resist tank.Edited by Derra on April 9, 2015 1:07PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
babanovac✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.
Same here. Around 25K physical resistance and spell resistance at hard-cap and a few days ago I was hit by a 16K Crystal Fragment. I think that's fair though, as they are reflectable and will deal even more damage to the caster compared to Wrecking Blow that can't even be interrupted.
These large crystal fragments hits on heavy armor are in 99% of the cases a result of an absorbshield on the victim.
If you have an absorbshield with say 500 dmg left (barrier, healward, anything really...) a 10k procced fragements will hit the shields 500 dmg unmitigated. For the second hit on your HP the system does NOT check mitigation again leading to 9.5k x 1.5 unmitigated critical dmg landing on a 40k resists.
Wow... if that's how it works then it's broken really badly.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.
Same here. Around 25K physical resistance and spell resistance at hard-cap and a few days ago I was hit by a 16K Crystal Fragment. I think that's fair though, as they are reflectable and will deal even more damage to the caster compared to Wrecking Blow that can't even be interrupted.
These large crystal fragments hits on heavy armor are in 99% of the cases a result of an absorbshield on the victim.
If you have an absorbshield with say 500 dmg left (barrier, healward, anything really...) a 10k procced fragements will hit the shields 500 dmg unmitigated. For the second hit on your HP the system does NOT check mitigation again leading to 9.5k x 1.5 unmitigated critical dmg landing on a 40k resists.
Wow... if that's how it works then it's broken really badly.
It is how it works and why I took blazing shield off my bar. Without stacking to 30k health, a lot of things can hit harder than the shield itself.
That said; I was hit by 15-16k shards consecutively before in heavy armor without shields, but this was before the sharpened trait fix and may have been before the nirhoned fix. Now we have different issues with nirhoned resist. The game is so F'ed up right now, its not even funny.0 -
Oughash✭✭✭✭There is no contradiction in this discussion.
Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.
As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.
Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.
You cant compare this. If a sorc hits you with a crit for 10k dmg with 37k resist, youre most like hit with a procced crystal fragment powered by might of the guild and a crit.
To compare that to a noncrit, instantcast lavawhip is like.....(i give up)
I have never seen lava whip (melee ability which requires to be up close and near the danger) hit me for 10k+. Crystal frags does that on a regular basis.
Yea, but what you ppl dont seem to understand, is that these abilties have HUGE differences, you shouldnt compare them to eachother in the first place.
Lava is instant cast and can be spammed, crystal has cast time and a procc chance (35%) to increase dmg by 20%, not to mention most sorcs take advantage of motg to get this to procc with it, nerf something across the board because some ppl are good at taking advantage of synergies? well, kthxbye..
No, nerf something because no one should die in 2 hits - yes, even if those 2 hits come from 2 different sorcs, because only one can't pull it off because of reasons you presented. There is absolutely no justification for having an ability that takes half your health. Be that Crystal frags or any other ability, including some stamina abilities that get close to crystal frags.
"close to" I'll have you know wb exceeds cf damage, and sorcs arent nearly the most bursty class/build out there. Sure cf hits hard, but it hits once with a combination of buffs, it cant be spammed like some things can.
Personally i have never been hit by WB for more than 9K, and i'm running less physical resist than spell. This is in full heavy armor.
Same here. Around 25K physical resistance and spell resistance at hard-cap and a few days ago I was hit by a 16K Crystal Fragment. I think that's fair though, as they are reflectable and will deal even more damage to the caster compared to Wrecking Blow that can't even be interrupted.
These large crystal fragments hits on heavy armor are in 99% of the cases a result of an absorbshield on the victim.
If you have an absorbshield with say 500 dmg left (barrier, healward, anything really...) a 10k procced fragements will hit the shields 500 dmg unmitigated. For the second hit on your HP the system does NOT check mitigation again leading to 9.5k x 1.5 unmitigated critical dmg landing on a 40k resist tank.
woah woah woah? Is this true? This is totally broken if true.1
