nimander99 wrote: »

Don't be shocked when ZoS realizes the impossibility of rebalancing the game down to level 50 and posts a letter saying Ranks are here too stay.

^ This for sure. It seems like a huge undertaking to overhaul things just to remove the ranks. It'd be easier to up the value of XP or sell XP potions int he store What? awwwww... lol.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

With recently added 3600 CP's to work towards, honestly, what's the benefit to removing the ranks at this point?

There are so many unintended consequences that would result - it's not broken, no reason to 'fix' it.

VR14 is very attainable, and unless you have no plans to gather CP's, you'd end up getting their regardless.

Other than flattening out the gear 50+ (which would eventually simplify things), there is no purpose to it. Either way they would change gear, something would get missed and something would end up out of balance, again.

Thousands of players seem to have disagreed w/ you w/ their wallets previously, but I guess you must be right.

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

Oh, they need to remove the idea of vet ranks entirely. They do. It's a stale effort idea to have players go around to other factions starting zones and do all those quests...again. It always has been.They released the game far too early, and this is what we got. Be happy that you have things like Craglorn to make it seem that actually cared about end game content. Prior to that, vet questing was all we had.

The rank itself has zero to do with the Questing in Silver and Gold being an issue. They can keep ranks just add content so that others can achieve the ranks without forcing them into Sliver and Gold. If this was done I feel like people wouldn't mind the Veteran ranks as much. It would also help to possibly balance out the time needed to achieve each level and either make the lower tiers take longer or the higher tiers go faster. This way pacing is the same and nobody notices a variance/has anything to complain about regarding the pace.

Glurin wrote: »

Future patch notes:

Veteran ranks removed.

Maximum level raised to 63.

I have a feeling this is likely as well, simply because we've earned skill points for our levels beyond 50. I suspect a lot of people would be upset to lose all those skill points, and new players who haven't achieved that level would be upset if they could never earn them (and I wouldn't blame them, unless there were some other means of continually earning skills perhaps via champion system).

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be all too thrilled to have all of this advancement yanked out from under me. I'd probably unsub. If people don't want to do Cadwell's quests, then provide a valid alternative for advancing (like an expansion pack with totally new content), but keep Cadwell's G/S in place. I personally enjoy them and would be sorely disappointed if I suddenly wasn't able to complete them. I do not plan on playing alts. I always play MMOs with a single character and don't want to have to create new ones to enjoy the other content.

Theres no real reason to be subbed anyways so there you go.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

This may come as a bit of a shock to people, but this is a MMORPG. And an element of MMORPG is levelling up. You'll be surprised how many RPGs require you to level up. I can think of some pretty big games that require you to level up. Hell there are even games out there that have added even more levels since their initial release.

Do you really think that removing Vet 1-14 is going to solve the problem? If the answer is yes, how long do you think it will be before the opinion is brought to the forum that levels should removed totally so new players can experience end game content, and ZOS has to change the name again to World for Call Of The Elder Scrolls Battlefield Warrior.

Let's go all the way and remove quests from the game and we can all sit in Cyrodil, quests are so lame and outdated as they have been around since like forever.

I can see the next MEME now... I used to be Vet 14, but I took an arrow to my knee and I'm now only level 50 due to disability, but hey the Vindication system will be here soon, so I can become a guard.

Way to completely miss the entire point of why people want VRs removed and come into a thread patting yourself on the back for making a snarky reply to nobody.

Grats, I guess?

I don't understand the problem? It seems you don't understand the problem yourselves.

Removing levels is not going to have a massive surge of players able to do trials and pledges. and other end game content.

Levelling to Vet 14 is boring, I don't want to do Cadwell silver and gold because it is boring and I don't want to do quests for another faction. Hey guess what, instead of saying remove the levels, how about ADD MORE CONTENT TO DO AT THAT LEVEL!

Sadownick, you want to go off and do trails, get yourself a team and off you go. What exactly is stopping you? Nothing. As long as you work together you'll actually have a good laugh and wonder what all the fuss was about.

I've just completed The Missing Guardian quest. Team consisted of 3 Vet 14s one Vet 7. 3 of us Night Blades, the other a Templar. Took me FIVE days to complete the quest. Why? Because of stupid mechanism in place that requires 4 people to open the portal. There's a problem. ZOS have made a game which is fairly easy to solo all the way through. Then Craglorn comes along and forces people to group, and if you ask for help in zone (and in most cases guilds as well) the response is NOTHING. Therefore, isn't part of the problem the players? Or are we not allowed to criticise ourselves?

So missed the point? I THINK NOT!

We are under the illusion that Vet 14 means something. All it means is you have a few more Skill and Attribute points, access to better gear and provisions, and if you played through Cadwell Gold and Silver, access to all areas. Does that reflect the skill of a player? Not really. Our job as players is to beat the game, let us act like a community and do what is intended.

Now Varicite you have my full and undivided attention. Snarky? I think I've been pretty level headed in my responses. I could come up with a snarky comment about "not having access to a team of friends" (I'm not sure i used them exact words, but hey the evidence is on the post I made), yet I understand things about shyness so it would really be unfair.

Reply to nobody, if you can't work out my posts is directed at those advocating the removal of VR and in support of keeping them in game then, well, what can I say!?

So if you still think I've missed the point, then feel free to come forward and enlighten me. After all, I am all for enlightenment.

Psst, I'm not sure how I patted myself on my back in previous posts. Could you point them out for me as well

After 50 minutes of reviewing my post before submitting you'd think I'd spot the spelling errors.

Remove Vet Ranks and make the cap level 100 and leave it there.

Work on MORE CONTENT please.

Players that have vet rank 12+ (before the removal) should be rewarded somehow meaningfully not just some mount or pet everyone will be able to get after awhile.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

@stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

How many V14 characters do you have?

PS) If you can't find the snarky tones in your own post, it really does nothing for me or the thread to point them out to you.

However, the assumptions you make about players who dislike the VR system are pretty condescending.

How many characters I have is off topic, has no relevance to the case to support the VR system.

It's actually quite relevant, because I'd like to know how bearable you feel the VR grind is after having leveled multiple characters through the exact same grind.

Varicite wrote: »

The fact you can not point to any actual comments that are snarky means that there isn't any, that's you trying to divert attention.

Choosing not to and not being able to are two very different things. ; )

My choice to continue w/ the topic at hand is actually my trying to divert attention BACK toward what matters.

Varicite wrote: »

I also seem to be the only one that has said there should be new content to support character progression (please correct me if this is wrong). I also chuckle at the fact no one has notice the 1.4 billion XP grind with the CP. So as I have remained firmly on topic, would you kindly do the same.

You misunderstand, my question IS about the topic. It's about the tedious grind that many of us have done multiple times now and wish to see gone, as it serves no real purpose other than to artificially separate players.

Progression can exist w/out the VR1-14 gap; in fact, it DOES exist w/out it already through gear progression and the Champion System.

And yes, I realize the Champ system is a grind, but the major difference is that it's a grind where you can CHOOSE how to gain that XP in your favored endgame activities. Currently, you are forced to grind BEFORE you can even begin to participate in said activities, and that is my issue w/ the system.

You seem to think for some reason that I (and others) dislike the VR system because we do not want to level characters. I'm quite certain I've "leveled" in this game far more than most players, as I've stated numerous times in this thread and others.

16 characters, 8 VR+ (2 deleted to make room), my 6th time going through Cadwell's Almanac. It's a slog and it doesn't HAVE to be.

I'm not sure why people seem to WANT it to be.

But honestly, I thought that more content was a foregone conclusion. Of course there needs to be more content as well, but that doesn't justify forcing players to hit endgame and then grind 14 VRs before they can actually do anything.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

I've thrown down the gauntlet about you producing evidence where I was snarky. The fact is there isn't any. Now you can apologise for that and no one will think any less of you or produce the evidence.

As for how bearable the grind is, try going completionist on DDO, you'll soon find out what a grind is. I know the pain, but on this game I only have to get it once for each character I have. And on DDO each life you do makes a drastic change to the character, where as here, I'll be honest, I've seen lvl 45s run circles around me at Vet 14. Hell I got butchered by a lvl 12 when I was Vet 8.

And like all MMOs, there really is no such thing as End Game (which nutter came up with that and brought it to a MMO?), end game is only the latest content that comes out so that bar is always changing. Level 50 is not end game, it used to be a long time ago, but we're past that now.

Congratulations for 16 characters, give yourself a pat on the back as I'm too busy patting my own allegedly. But you chosen to do 16 characters. No body forced you.

The separation is player induced. Yes I know that a lvl 45 can't do a Vet Scale Dungeon, but there is nothing stopping a Vet 1, 3, 7, 11 from teaming up with each other to do Vet content (unless it's in an opposing faction territory). However, I've seen people get turned down because of they were not the right level. I understand that Vet 14 gives people a false sense of security, I know, I've been there. But after dragging a Vet 7 with me to do quests in Craglorn, I'm wondering where all the fear came from.

Now as Craglorn is the latest content, I am going to use this for my example. We know it can't be soloed.
A good group leader will create a team and get that team through if you pass his/her requirements to join that team.
A great group leader will look at the tools available, formulate a plan and execute to to the best of his/her teams abilities. adapt accordingly and get the team to success.
Which one do you want to be remembered as?

If I had the time, I would love to prove my point, however I feel that someone is going to beat me to it. There are people out there that really don't care what level you, don't care how many characters you have, just as long as you listen to instructions and follow the leader. If you feel you need to be Vet 14 to do this, then so be it.

All removal of the vet ranks is going to do is divert the man hours away from projects that will expand the game only to be reintroduced later under a different guise. If we as players can not team together to complete content, then what is that saying about the community?

You know what.... I'm going to throw down the gauntlet again. I'm looking for 11 volunteers. The objective to get to Vet 1/level 50 as quick as possible then head into Craglorn to complete it. Those that want to join have to be serious about wanting to succeed in the endeavour. There will have to be prior planning and preparation of course, but we can decide that if 11 others come forward. The point, to prove that the content can be done as it is with the current levels in place. Once this has been done, then come back to me and say Vet 14 is a grind because I will have proof that Vet 14 means nothing and that there is no reason to grind to Vet 14. Then after it has been made, watch what type of content ZOS come out with, it'll be a shocker.

Are you doing trials with your group of VR1s? If you can't find 11 people, you can still do DSA/VDSA w/ 3 others. This would be the ultimate proof that being VR14 means nothing. Pls post vid ASAP.

Endless grind in 2015 mmo is

1 level in 2 hours

Endless grind in 2005 mmo was

1% in 2 hours

It's just VR ranks they are removing, not the quests.

I have a question to all the "Remove VR"-People.
How do you plan to combine that with the different ranks of armor we have in place now?

Uviryth wrote: »

I have a question to all the "Remove VR"-People.
How do you plan to combine that with the different ranks of armor we have in place now?

Simple
ZOS used a 5 champ lv conversion from VR exp so
VR1=CP levels 1-5
VR2=CP levels 6-10
VR14=CP levels 70+

This applies across the board. The beauty of it all is that it keeps in tact some level of seperation from a 50 to a VR14 but it's not a per character limitation. Gear that is on any VR today will still be accessible based on their champion level (acct based)
This also seems to balance two concerns, where a VR is not nerfed and their efforts aren't removed. It also removes the per character grind and allows alts to produce progress because many people change their minds and want to reroll. Now it occurs without too much penalty but none of this flattens the playing field nor does it place the bar too high.

For those like me with a few VR's but none over VR10, I can at least get to endgame after gearing up.

The stats that a VR have can either be set to a per champion level progression per account or some other idea.

The 5 champ lvl conversion comes from how they granted champion points based in exp when patch 2.0 hit

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

1. If you hate the grind so much then why repeat it? Why repeat it again, and again, and 16 times?

And then complain you didn't like it?

Oh, that's simple. All of my characters are of vastly different race / class / build combos and serve different purposes. I love them all fairly equally, however, and want them to excel in endgame because they are all lovingly crafted and great builds.

I enjoy playing them, and I enjoy playing every bit of the game w/ them except for the VR grind itself. Does that make sense?

Does it make sense that while I may enjoy playing my character as a healer in groups and playing challenging PvE content or keeping my group alive in PvP, that I might not enjoy helping Razum-Dar protect his (not my) queen for the 4th time?

I fully understand that others choose to limit themselves to a smaller number of characters, and have no issue w/ that. I am nost definitely NOT saying that anyone else need to play the way that I enjoy.

However, there are 8 character slots by default; does it not stand to reason that ZOS intends for some of us to actually USE those 8 slots?

That means doing the VR grind 8 times.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

2. How does a tedious grind "artificially" separate players? And are you talking the tedious VR grind or the tedious CP grind? They are both based on experience.

VR separates players. CP separate players. "Seasonal" gear would artificially separate players.

What I mean by "artificial separation" is that you are basically forced to go through V1-V14 by either doing Cadwell's Almanac or by AoE grinding (which is clearly not how ZOS wants us to get there).

These players have beaten their main faction's storyline and want to participate in endgame activities like PvP or Trials, but are SO FAR below a V14 character that it becomes unfeasible. ZOS has stated that the main aim of removing VRs is to alleviate this.

Yes, CP is also a grind, you're absolutely correct. However, the difference is that CP can be gained doing almost anything that you enjoy.

VR must be gained in a few very specific manners that many do not enjoy. That's why I view them differently, though they are both clearly a "grind". One is where I choose to grind for perks that I also get to choose.

The other is where they TELL me to grind for static boosts to my character, and if I try to go elsewhere to aoe grind xp instead of doing these quests for the 6th time, they nerf those spots and tell me that I'm doing it wrong.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And how does "seasonal" gear fit in with crafting? How does gear progression work without VR (or CP)?

Honestly, I don't know, they haven't spoken at much length about their plans for Seasonal gear. As I understand it, it will work a lot like WoW's raid gearing system, but that is really just my speculation based on what little has been said.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

OK, so you are concerned about the tedious grind involved in levelling alts, but how is this related to player separation? If you already have one (two, four, eight, sixteen) VR14s then you have reached maximum player separation!

Ah, I didn't mean to make that so confusing. They aren't related, they are separate issues that both stem from the current VR system.

I am concerned about having to do this for every character, yes, but that is a more personal concern, as I'm an admitted altoholic.

Player separation, however, is a much larger concern for a broader spectrum of players. This seems to be ZOS' main concern, as well, and one that I understand.

Again, I didn't mean to mix the two if that's how it came across. They are separate problems. : )

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And if you grind out 1000 CP you really won't be bothered about VR

I'm not really planning to grind out any CP at all, because CP is gained by doing almost anything that I would normally choose to occupy my in-game time w/ (which for me is PvP, solo PvE, grouping w/ a few close friends, etc).

I may even revisit some of the Aldmeri / Ebonheart spots to quest or grind mobs when I'm not being forced to slog through them, because I do actually enjoy some of the areas and quests. I just don't want them to be my only real option.

Sorry for the long-winded response, but it seemed like you wanted to know how I felt personally about these issues and I didn't feel that I fitfully explained them earlier, as my posts are usually designed w/ a much more general view of the game in mind. : )