The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

sylviermoone wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

He (or she) didn't say you could sell your items at a vendor without being in a guild, he said you can trade items for gold without being in a guild, as man people do via zone chat.

I like the current system, though I will agree that it can be sucky for low level chars, as they don't have access to a vast majority of the games vendors.

I think a possible solution to this issue that fits with the current system would be to implement a second tier of vendors, either several consolidated in a specific place (perhaps Eyevea?) or one trader per zone that is open to all players.

I'm lucky enough to be in 3 guilds that work incredibly hard to keep their vendors week after week. Those guilds are established, they formed early in the game's life, and they organized quickly and efficiently when the guild trader system was put into place. I can assure you, no GM in those guilds is simply "pocketing the profit".

For whatever issues people have with the current trade system, it is still a significant improvement on the old system, which only allowed access to buy and sell in the guilds you were in. Now, instead of only being able to buy from 5 guilds at the most, you have the ability to hop around and shop through a multitude of stores.

You can infectively sell to other players is what he means.

I'll keep saying it I don't have to be in a guild to quest, run dungeons or craft. So why do I have to be in a guild to use a vendor.

SteveCampsOut · April 2015

TheRealDoc wrote: »

I dislike the current system, but acknowledge that an auction house is not the answer either.

I recently proposed having a "master trader" who indexes all traders in one zone as a compromise solution, so you only have 20+ traders to visit instead of the current 100+.

Having read the thread, another solution may be to:

Keep the guild traders in place, but remove their links to guilds. Then any player can ask any trader to sell their item for them for a percentage fee. The clever bit is that the percentage fee varies according to how busy (based on sales or total gold) that trader is.

So, the high profile busy traders, eg: Craglorn will take a large cut, but the little traders out on backwater roads will take a much smaller cut. Of course it also cuts out all the guilds that only exist to feed the leadership a bigger bank and tax profits!

Everyone profits!

I think that's the best solution I've heard in a long time!

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

It is absolutely impossible for one guild with 500 people max that can only sell 30 items each to "corner" the market. Even a handful of them.

There isn't a dam thing these imaginary tycoons can do to stop the guy in the next kiosk from selling the same items for a cheaper price.

Every BoE item in the game is attainable by anyone. Items sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay for the convenience of not going out and farming it yourself. Rare drops are more expensive because they are just that. Rare.

No but you could have one person running 5 trading guilds with the same 500 people in taking the top trading places.

While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

@Gandrhulf_Harbard I can understand peoples comments about a centralised system. I just don't think it's a good thing for various reasons I've posted multiple times. You may as well change the name of whatever it would become to "Pound/Dollar Store" as everything will ultimately be cheapened.

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

I have no idea where you are coming from with this statement. I started in January. I have 7 characters (4 are mules). 3 are maxed in Enchanting, Woodwork, Clothing, Blacksmithing. I've not bothered with the others as I have friends who do this and can give me the stuff when I need it (provisioning or potions). How on earth is the trade system actually preventing you from doing that? I can only assume it's because you want to purchase the mats you need rather than go and look for them. If so, that's not a trade issue, that's a personal preference issue

If there is a change that needs to be made.....and I'm not saying that there should be....then the obvious one would be adding a "half way house" where anyone can join (subject to not being part of another guild) and you can list/add 30 items to the system there. I tell you one thing right now however, there will be sooooo much crap on that site it will be un-real. Every Tom *** and harry will be posting up their 15 Iron Ore for 100g or 7 Raw Birch for 50g. I would HATE to see the size of the DB filled with crap, having 100's of people constantly loading it and reloading it and searching it..... *Shudders for the BI guys in ZoS*

But guess what, what if I need just 15 Iron Ore to make something for an Alt or a Friend and I am so over-level for Iron Ore I can't be bothered to go farm it?

Every other major MMO has an AH that works just like your feared example, and every other major MMO gets on just fine with it in terms of player satisfaction, and most of them are doing at least as well financially as ESO, if not better.

The very worst AH system I have ever seen would be a 1000% improvement on the current trade system.

If a game wants to enjoy increased revenue from more players it must add something that attracts more players.

The current system has too many hurdles putting people off.

You need 50+ Members in a guild just to be able to trade.
Then you need tens of thousands of gold spare each week just to get a shot at any kiosk, and far more than that to get any hope of a decent kiosk.

The money involved there over inflates the prices of goods creating further barriers to inclusion for casual players. Casual players want as much inclusion in the game-world as they can get, without the "work" involved in playing an MMO in a hard-core manner. Casual players are now the bread-and-butter of the MMO industry. The hard-core player market simply doesn't exist in MMOs anymore, well not for the kind of player numbers required to cover the investment in a game as big as ESO.

And if you doubt that last sentence go look at Wildstar. A brilliant game in many ways, brought low by its excessive obsession with keeping things "hard-core". Less than a year in they were scaling back the hard-core elements and that was after they launched the game with a B2P model built-in.

I don't mind a bit of hard-core content, especially in dungeons and raids - heck I actually expect it. But a hardcore grindfest just to be able to sell a few things via trade? No way.

Now the game has gone the B2P the current trade system's day are numbered - casual players just won't accept it.

The very best thing Zeni can do is accept that now and start working on an AH-like system than can be shipped when the game launches on Console.

The very worst thing they can do is listen to the people telling them the trade system debacle isn't an issue - that way lies less customers.

All The Best

Mishanya · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

Flaminir · April 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

If you absolutely abhor guilds to the point where you refuse to be in one (totally understandable, everyone has their own opinion), then might I suggest just utilizing zone chat to sell your wares? Have a few good friends and you might be able to essentially have a trade partner that is willing to cut you in the profits. I made more than a few shiny pennies using this method when I was looking for a guild to dedicate to.

As it stands, there is no way for a player with no guild to have access to a system that will allow them partake in the economy (save for 'social' methods like those referenced above). Many threads have been opened discussing ideas such as stalls, 'open-market' trading zones, expansion on hireling duties, etc. I would much rather embrace those ideas that have an auction house implemented. I'm a players-can-set-up-stalls advocate myself.

I'm not sure that is totally understandable in the context of this game tbh.

ZoS can't please everybody... they have to make certain decisions on mechanics which will be unpopular to some people.

But this is an MMO... its designed to be played with others... in groups... with other people around.

Now if you don't like the chat from a trade guild then that's not a problem (& understandable), just switch it off. But I can't see any justifiable reason at all where somebody should really be refusing point blank to join a guild of any kind, and then say they have no access to the trade system.

Just join a trade guild... switch off the chat & low & behold... you have access to the trade system but don't need to interact with anybody else if that's your wish.

If ZoS attempted to cater to people who simply refuse to engage then they would never get anywhere. & we would also have an overly simplified & non-immersive game.

The options are there to use... and be as social or unsociable as people want.

(I'm not saying the system is perfect btw... its not. I'm just saying that I think there is a lot of scope for some to broaden their horizons and make better use of the tools that are available in the game now).

Mishanya · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

If you absolutely abhor guilds to the point where you refuse to be in one (totally understandable, everyone has their own opinion), then might I suggest just utilizing zone chat to sell your wares? Have a few good friends and you might be able to essentially have a trade partner that is willing to cut you in the profits. I made more than a few shiny pennies using this method when I was looking for a guild to dedicate to.

As it stands, there is no way for a player with no guild to have access to a system that will allow them partake in the economy (save for 'social' methods like those referenced above). Many threads have been opened discussing ideas such as stalls, 'open-market' trading zones, expansion on hireling duties, etc. I would much rather embrace those ideas that have an auction house implemented. I'm a players-can-set-up-stalls advocate myself.

I'm not sure that is totally understandable in the context of this game tbh.

ZoS can't please everybody... they have to make certain decisions on mechanics which will be unpopular to some people.

But this is an MMO... its designed to be played with others... in groups... with other people around.

Now if you don't like the chat from a trade guild then that's not a problem (& understandable), just switch it off. But I can't see any justifiable reason at all where somebody should really be refusing point blank to join a guild of any kind, and then say they have no access to the trade system.

Just join a trade guild... switch off the chat & low & behold... you have access to the trade system but don't need to interact with anybody else if that's your wish.

If ZoS attempted to cater to people who simply refuse to engage then they would never get anywhere. & we would also have an overly simplified & non-immersive game.

The options are there to use... and be as social or unsociable as people want.

(I'm not saying the system is perfect btw... its now. I'm just saying that I think there is a lot of scope for some to broaden their horizons and make better use of the tools that are available in the game now).

My original post States why you shouldn't have to go to a 3rd party to do something as basic as selling your items to other players

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

Dubhliam · April 2015

Don't remove it.
Ever.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

Now you're talking out your ass no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

My observation is that you're skim reading...drawing conclusions and inferring incorrectly.

It's the way Most MMO's work does not mean that most don't use what you want this game to offer.
It does mean that most MMO games use the player to player interactions strategy.
That's not to include or dismiss a global selling system or whatever else.

How long have you been involved in MMO gaming?
This game and some of its developers are from DAoC....DAoC used a very similar approach by allowing player to player trading, guilds and those members to list items for sale and allowed non guild players to buy from those guilds.

The game didn't have a global AH and it worked great.
This was in 1998-today

There are many other games that didn't have a global AH

Now around 2002-2004 games began to make moves towards a global trading system that did not require "membership" like WoW came in with but even in those games it was alliance, faction or realm based.

In every game that had or that had a global AH of any kind, those all became overrun with bots, gold sellers, account hacking and so why would ZOS introduce something that they know promotes frustration and that will introduce long term problems.

I do believe you're a lot younger than myself as I'm almost 40 so the gaming and online experiences that I've had since the early 1990's of MMO and non MMO gaming causes me to side with ZOS on this topic

DaniAngione · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

That's like complaining you have to be online to play the game with others...

You're adapting your text to fit YOUR needs... Like when you say "Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY to sell items the vendors? "

Well, why not say the same for Trials? The most EFFECTIVE WAY to do them is regularly, with people you know, from your big raiding GUILD.

The most EFFECTIVE way to PVP, is just like trials, in big groups with people you know... from your PVP GUILD.

You can't compare a casual style of playing to THE MOST EFFECTIVE way to deal with commerce. Guilds make EVERYTHING more effective. And the opposite is true: YES, you can sell and buy stuff without guilds.... It's just not as effective...

So.... Nope, your arguments are invalid.

Game is fine the way it is. Guilds are historically related to trade both in Tamriel's history and real history. People wouldn't gather together in companies, associations and such if it wasn't the MOST EFFICIENT way to trade.

I'm so glad ESO walks away from "your typical-average hand-holding Auction House system". It's so fun to walk around looking for better deals, being able to "scam" some gold here and there by buying low and selling high... Markets feel more alive with people walking around checking deals instead of being cramped inside an useless AH building...

So much better.

Mishanya · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

[edited for baiting]

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

Now you're talking out your ass no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

My observation is that you're skim reading...drawing conclusions and inferring incorrectly.

It's the way Most MMO's work does not mean that most don't use what you want this game to offer.
It does mean that most MMO games use the player to player interactions strategy.
That's not to include or dismiss a global selling system or whatever else.

How long have you been involved in MMO gaming?
This game and some of its developers are from DAoC....DAoC used a very similar approach by allowing player to player trading, guilds and those members to list items for sale and allowed non guild players to buy from those guilds.

The game didn't have a global AH and it worked great.
This was in 1998-today

There are many other games that didn't have a global AH

Now around 2002-2004 games began to make moves towards a global trading system that did not require "membership" like WoW came in with but even in those games it was alliance, faction or realm based.

In every game that had or that had a global AH of any kind, those all became overrun with bots, gold sellers, account hacking and so why would ZOS introduce something that they know promotes frustration and that will introduce long term problems.

I do believe you're a lot younger than myself as I'm almost 40 so the gaming and online experiences that I've had since the early 1990's of MMO and non MMO gaming causes me to side with ZOS on this topic

I never played DAoC and you guessed wrong I'm 30.

The first proper MMO I ever played was SWG and I loved how the economy worked in that game. It was totally player driven, but you didn't have to join a club to sell your stuff. You had your own shop and vendors. You sold your wares by making a name for your self.

My whole issue is having to join a guild to sell because you are at the whim of another player.

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

You can't do everything without a guild so stop saying you can.

You CANT use vendors to sell your gear without a guild. Everything else you can do with out a guild except that one thing.

[edited to remove quote]

Thymos · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Please tell me the guilds that require this. That way I can avoid them, because ultimately I have a choice on which guilds I want to join. Because of this choice that I have, people create guilds to fit different needs and have more and more relaxed requirements to join. No one is forcing me to do what you just wrote there, even if I did join a guild like that. There's a sense of competition between guilds and recruitment, and this makes each guild different and unique. This argument here still applies to having to be in a guild to sell through a vendor.

Mishanya · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

You can't do everything without a guild so stop saying you can.

You CANT use vendors to sell your gear without a guild. Everything else you can do with out a guild except that one thing.

But you should pay for vendor, nobody would sell your stuff for free

[edited to remove quote]

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Please tell me the guilds that require this. That way I can avoid them, because ultimately I have a choice on which guilds I want to join. Because of this choice that I have, people create guilds to fit different needs and have more and more relaxed requirements to join. No one is forcing me to do what you just wrote there, even if I did join a guild like that. There's a sense of competition between guilds and recruitment, and this makes each guild different and unique. This argument here still applies to having to be in a guild to sell through a vendor.

No guild does what you quoted with questing, they do it with trading. You have to sell x amount you have to log in x amount of days.

My point is no one would be happy with having to be in a guild just to quest so why is every happy with trade guilds doing it?

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

You can't do everything without a guild so stop saying you can.

You CANT use vendors to sell your gear without a guild. Everything else you can do with out a guild except that one thing.

But you should pay for vendor, nobody would sell your stuff for free

Where did I say there shouldn't be a charge for selling items? Go on go through the 4 pages and quote me where I said there should be no charge for using vendors.

[edited to remove quote]

tcgoetzub17_ESO · April 2015

Please no auction house. Auction houses wreck games.

Look at Diablo3. They realized that AH wrecked their game and removed it.

Thymos · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Please tell me the guilds that require this. That way I can avoid them, because ultimately I have a choice on which guilds I want to join. Because of this choice that I have, people create guilds to fit different needs and have more and more relaxed requirements to join. No one is forcing me to do what you just wrote there, even if I did join a guild like that. There's a sense of competition between guilds and recruitment, and this makes each guild different and unique. This argument here still applies to having to be in a guild to sell through a vendor.

No guild does what you quoted with questing, they do it with trading. You have to sell x amount you have to log in x amount of days.

My point is no one would be happy with having to be in a guild just to quest so why is every happy with trade guilds doing it?

Because IT WORKS. It creates interaction. It encourages the MMO part of the genre, not just multiplayer with the option to lone wolf. Like I wrote before, I have a choice in what guild I want to join.

We really haven't seen any major dips or inflation in the game's economy, now have we? Over time things would steadily decrease in price, but that's normal even in real life.

We also haven't seen any real takeover from gold-sellers. Sure there was a problem at first, but please let me know of any game that is brand new that doesn't share that problem in the beginning.

Mishanya · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

You can't do everything without a guild so stop saying you can.

You CANT use vendors to sell your gear without a guild. Everything else you can do with out a guild except that one thing.

But you should pay for vendor, nobody would sell your stuff for free

Where did I say there shouldn't be a charge for selling items? Go on go through the 4 pages and quote me where I said there should be no charge for using vendors.

And how do you want it to be?
You'll come to vendor and put items on sale just through him?
Then we need only one vendor in Belkarth, and one vendor for each location for noobs. Its just boring. And looks weird.

[edited to remove quote]

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Please tell me the guilds that require this. That way I can avoid them, because ultimately I have a choice on which guilds I want to join. Because of this choice that I have, people create guilds to fit different needs and have more and more relaxed requirements to join. No one is forcing me to do what you just wrote there, even if I did join a guild like that. There's a sense of competition between guilds and recruitment, and this makes each guild different and unique. This argument here still applies to having to be in a guild to sell through a vendor.

No guild does what you quoted with questing, they do it with trading. You have to sell x amount you have to log in x amount of days.

My point is no one would be happy with having to be in a guild just to quest so why is every happy with trade guilds doing it?

Because IT WORKS. It creates interaction. It encourages the MMO part of the genre, not just multiplayer with the option to lone wolf. Like I wrote before, I have a choice in what guild I want to join.

Interaction with who?

The 20 vendors I talked to while trying to find an item?
Or
My self as I traveled on my own to those 20 vendors?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

Now you're talking out your ass no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

My observation is that you're skim reading...drawing conclusions and inferring incorrectly.

It's the way Most MMO's work does not mean that most don't use what you want this game to offer.
It does mean that most MMO games use the player to player interactions strategy.
That's not to include or dismiss a global selling system or whatever else.

How long have you been involved in MMO gaming?
This game and some of its developers are from DAoC....DAoC used a very similar approach by allowing player to player trading, guilds and those members to list items for sale and allowed non guild players to buy from those guilds.

The game didn't have a global AH and it worked great.
This was in 1998-today

There are many other games that didn't have a global AH

Now around 2002-2004 games began to make moves towards a global trading system that did not require "membership" like WoW came in with but even in those games it was alliance, faction or realm based.

In every game that had or that had a global AH of any kind, those all became overrun with bots, gold sellers, account hacking and so why would ZOS introduce something that they know promotes frustration and that will introduce long term problems.

I do believe you're a lot younger than myself as I'm almost 40 so the gaming and online experiences that I've had since the early 1990's of MMO and non MMO gaming causes me to side with ZOS on this topic

I never played DAoC and you guessed wrong I'm 30.

The first proper MMO I ever played was SWG and I loved how the economy worked in that game. It was totally player driven, but you didn't have to join a club to sell your stuff. You had your own shop and vendors. You sold your wares by making a name for your self.

My whole issue is having to join a guild to sell because you are at the whim of another player.

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Just pointing out age 30 and age 40 in reference to gaming technology is a BIG difference.
My first console was an Intellivision
30 year olds - Nintendo or Sega

First MMO
40 years old - prob EverQuest, Neverwinter Nights, DAoC, Ultima Online
30 years old- prob SWG, WoW, Final Fantasy XI, etc

Regarding the topic and points you share....it's not that your points don't have value or make sense but rather that you're applying a limited view to commerce and player interactions for MMO's

Limited questing or dungeons by guild:
Some argue and more suggest that to ensure a reliable experience being a member of certain guild types is almost required.
So for VR content many are limited to a guild requirement due to the LFG tool.

I can comprehend the feeling but I cannot sympathize because since 2012-2013 ZOS was very clear that this game wouldn't have a global ah

Edit; you're not required to join any guild to sale items....you personally feel that a guild membership is required in order to sale items for the value you have placed on those items.

Item value by design promotes player to player interactions for a greater benefit.
Just as in real life...selling or trading items to retail stores or cars and houses to dealers provides a substantially lesser value than trying to sale outside within human to human interactions.

This is no different

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

You can't do everything without a guild so stop saying you can.

You CANT use vendors to sell your gear without a guild. Everything else you can do with out a guild except that one thing.

But you should pay for vendor, nobody would sell your stuff for free

Where did I say there shouldn't be a charge for selling items? Go on go through the 4 pages and quote me where I said there should be no charge for using vendors.

And how do you want it to be?
You'll come to vendor and put items on sale just through him?
Then we need only one vendor in Belkarth, and one vendor for each location for noobs. Its just boring. And looks weird.

It's better than having to go through some random I don't know like you. Give me one reason why I should have to ask you can I please join your guild so I can sell stuff. The whole concept of getting permission of another player to use part of the game makes no sense to me.

[edited to remove quote]

Thymos · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Please tell me the guilds that require this. That way I can avoid them, because ultimately I have a choice on which guilds I want to join. Because of this choice that I have, people create guilds to fit different needs and have more and more relaxed requirements to join. No one is forcing me to do what you just wrote there, even if I did join a guild like that. There's a sense of competition between guilds and recruitment, and this makes each guild different and unique. This argument here still applies to having to be in a guild to sell through a vendor.

No guild does what you quoted with questing, they do it with trading. You have to sell x amount you have to log in x amount of days.

My point is no one would be happy with having to be in a guild just to quest so why is every happy with trade guilds doing it?

Because IT WORKS. It creates interaction. It encourages the MMO part of the genre, not just multiplayer with the option to lone wolf. Like I wrote before, I have a choice in what guild I want to join.

Interaction with who?

The 20 vendors I talked to while trying to find an item?
Or
My self as I traveled on my own to those 20 vendors?

You're telling me that you didn't have any interaction, while your stance is to not join a guild. How can you tell me that when you're not part of a guild with an active store? Or am I just assuming this?

The interaction is between seller and his guild, which does include the guild leader. Remember, when this game first launched, you had to claim a resource in Cyrodiil to sell to people outside the guild. Adding the vendors just made a new system to make it more accessible, but we could easily just suggest that it goes back to the original method. When it was like that, I joined a few market guilds just so I could "buy" from them, and only them. The addition of the vendors has just helped out sellers, and actually helped reduce prices, because there are fewer walls to find what you want, and not as much of a limited supply anymore.

The market guilds I am in are usually my first choice when looking for specific items, because I know it will benefit me to purchase from them. If I purchase from them, then the guild profits, and the guild members profit. If the guild profits, we maintain our good locations of vendors. The vendor system has created a new sense of competition between guilds, so a good location is worth a lot more than a location in the middle of the wilderness. A good location benfits me, as I can move my product rather quickly.

Athas24 · April 2015

Initially I hated the concept of trade guilds being necessary to sell effectively when I joined the game. After I played a while however I grew up and realized that the games economy is rather unique and that if we had a Global Auction house or anything similar ALL of the prices for goods would Drastically lower. Already some green and blue items sold are so low at a vendor (and I'm in some very popular trade guilds) that they sell for only a few gold over what the NPC vendor will pay for them. Imagine for a second if Everyone was selling their trash in a global setting.
-First, this would make it completely worthless to even attempt to sell green items at the auction house. The NPC will pay you 40-70 gold for them depending on the lv of the item. You'll probably get that same amount or less with a global auction house.
-Second, blue items and set pieces would drop drastically in price. This means that anything selling for a few hundred would be at the level where current greens are at and likely cost/sell for maybe 100 gold each. While this may sound grand for a new player, it kills the sales being made by individuals and again, those items might as well be NPC vendor sold for the convenience of being immediate sales.
-Third, all of the rare materials like Motifs, Traits etc. would drastically reduce in price making all of the "rare" items a lot less rare. All it would take is a few people selling these items for cheap to affect sales. We would all easily see how many of those items are Actually in circulation compared to what we estimate there to be, which I'd venture a guess there are a decent amount of them out there.
All in all the economy would drastically shift and I personally don't see it shifting for the better. I can however see people complaining a lot more about how they aren't finding rare items enough or getting good loot from chests and bosses etc. Though these gripes are already out there, they will be a lot more prevalent once everyone is selling things for pennies.

Mishanya · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

[snip]

Quests are your personal expirience, though guildies could give you some interesting tips on quests.
Dungeons/Trials/PvP much more interesting and effective with guildies, than randoms.
Craft same as with quests.
Sells same as with Dungeons/Trials/PvP.

You can do everything alone, but with guild its just advanced.

You can't do everything without a guild so stop saying you can.

You CANT use vendors to sell your gear without a guild. Everything else you can do with out a guild except that one thing.

But you should pay for vendor, nobody would sell your stuff for free

Where did I say there shouldn't be a charge for selling items? Go on go through the 4 pages and quote me where I said there should be no charge for using vendors.

And how do you want it to be?
You'll come to vendor and put items on sale just through him?
Then we need only one vendor in Belkarth, and one vendor for each location for noobs. Its just boring. And looks weird.

It's better than having to go through some random I don't know like you. Give me one reason why I should have to ask you can I please join your guild so I can sell stuff. The whole concept of getting permission of another player to use part of the game makes no sense to me.

You don't have to ask anybody. Lots of guilds with vendors recruit people in chat, and some of them even have autoinvites. This is just my advice, cuz I want to help you. Thanks Azura, its a few people like you here. One or few big marketplaces will ruin ESO economy.

[edited to remove quote]

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

Now you're talking out your ass no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

My observation is that you're skim reading...drawing conclusions and inferring incorrectly.

It's the way Most MMO's work does not mean that most don't use what you want this game to offer.
It does mean that most MMO games use the player to player interactions strategy.
That's not to include or dismiss a global selling system or whatever else.

How long have you been involved in MMO gaming?
This game and some of its developers are from DAoC....DAoC used a very similar approach by allowing player to player trading, guilds and those members to list items for sale and allowed non guild players to buy from those guilds.

The game didn't have a global AH and it worked great.
This was in 1998-today

There are many other games that didn't have a global AH

Now around 2002-2004 games began to make moves towards a global trading system that did not require "membership" like WoW came in with but even in those games it was alliance, faction or realm based.

In every game that had or that had a global AH of any kind, those all became overrun with bots, gold sellers, account hacking and so why would ZOS introduce something that they know promotes frustration and that will introduce long term problems.

I do believe you're a lot younger than myself as I'm almost 40 so the gaming and online experiences that I've had since the early 1990's of MMO and non MMO gaming causes me to side with ZOS on this topic

I never played DAoC and you guessed wrong I'm 30.

The first proper MMO I ever played was SWG and I loved how the economy worked in that game. It was totally player driven, but you didn't have to join a club to sell your stuff. You had your own shop and vendors. You sold your wares by making a name for your self.

My whole issue is having to join a guild to sell because you are at the whim of another player.

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Just pointing out age 30 and age 40 in reference to gaming technology is a BIG difference.
My first console was an Intellivision
30 year olds - Nintendo or Sega

First MMO
40 years old - prob EverQuest, Neverwinter Nights, DAoC, Ultima Online
30 years old- prob SWG, WoW, Final Fantasy XI, etc

Regarding the topic and points you share....it's not that your points don't have value or make sense but rather that you're applying a limited view to commerce and player interactions for MMO's

Limited questing or dungeons by guild:
Some argue and more suggest that to ensure a reliable experience being a member of certain guild types is almost required.
So for VR content many are limited to a guild requirement due to the LFG tool.

I can comprehend the feeling but I cannot sympathize because since 2012-2013 ZOS was very clear that this game wouldn't have a global ah

Edit; you're not required to join any guild to sale items....you personally feel that a guild membership is required in order to sale items for the value you have placed on those items.

Item value by design promotes player to player interactions for a greater benefit.
Just as in real life...selling or trading items to retail stores or cars and houses to dealers provides a substantially lesser value than trying to sale outside within human to human interactions.

This is no different

You're a funny one. Computers I played before I was 10

Atari
Nes
Amiga
Spectrum
Commodore 64

MMO's I have played

Myth of soma
Legends of Mir
SWG
EQ 1+2
WoW
DCUO

Don't jump to conclusions and think you know someone.

I have no quarrel with player driven economy like I said I played SWG you don't get more player driven than that. I don't care how they do the economy, just as long as I don't have to ask another players permission to do part of it.