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The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.
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Just bring in a main AHFFFRRREEEDDDOOOMMM!!!
- Be Anyone.
- Do Anything.
- Go Anywhere.0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭Personally I think that some people haven't quite 'got' the whole trading sidegame going on here...
I totally understand that some want everything instantly & right in front of them with minimal effort (Auction House)...
...But the whole local economies thing, traders, buy low - sell high etc etc..... its fun! It's a mini-game within the game.... that's what I think some don't get.
And just like all parts of ESO you can either ignore it and take other routes such as selling in chat etc, or you can embrace it & have some fun / make more money.
To me its a fun side game & practically content... if they ever removed the trader system & replaced it with a godawful auction house I'd be a saaaad panda.
Oh I get it and can do it, I just don't want to put up with the guild. It's bad enough with all the guild drama you have to deal with when it comes to end game with out having to deal with it just to sell something.
My views will probably change on console and I'll be playing with mostly friends and I don't have to rely on strangers to allow me to sell.
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Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@flaminir Absolutely and well said. Personally, I find it more exciting and entertaining than PVP
lol
I wouldn't go quite that far... though I have to admit those moments waiting to see if we've won our guild trader bid each week can get pretty exciting!
GM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP0 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Personally I think that some people haven't quite 'got' the whole trading sidegame going on here...
I totally understand that some want everything instantly & right in front of them with minimal effort (Auction House)...
...But the whole local economies thing, traders, buy low - sell high etc etc..... its fun! It's a mini-game within the game.... that's what I think some don't get.
And just like all parts of ESO you can either ignore it and take other routes such as selling in chat etc, or you can embrace it & have some fun / make more money.
To me its a fun side game & practically content... if they ever removed the trader system & replaced it with a godawful auction house I'd be a saaaad panda.
Oh I get it and can do it, I just don't want to put up with the guild. It's bad enough with all the guild drama you have to deal with when it comes to end game with out having to deal with it just to sell something.
My views will probably change on console and I'll be playing with mostly friends and I don't have to rely on strangers to allow me to sell.
Its a shame that you've had some bad experiences with guilds from the sounds of it...
From my perspective I've been quite lucky I think... my own guild is around 100 strong (Not a dedicated trading guild) but has a good trader, the trading guilds I'm in are either neutral (Nobody says anything much... no drama, just selling/buying) or actually really fantastic friendly supportive & helpful places.
There are lots of great guilds out there for every part of the game... including trading. Its just a case of finding them.... if you're on EU & need a pointer to a really good one then just drop me an in-game mail to @FlaminirGM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP1 -
TheRealDoc✭✭✭I dislike the current system, but acknowledge that an auction house is not the answer either.
I recently proposed having a "master trader" who indexes all traders in one zone as a compromise solution, so you only have 20+ traders to visit instead of the current 100+.
Having read the thread, another solution may be to:
Keep the guild traders in place, but remove their links to guilds. Then any player can ask any trader to sell their item for them for a percentage fee. The clever bit is that the percentage fee varies according to how busy (based on sales or total gold) that trader is.
So, the high profile busy traders, eg: Craglorn will take a large cut, but the little traders out on backwater roads will take a much smaller cut. Of course it also cuts out all the guilds that only exist to feed the leadership a bigger bank and tax profits!
Everyone profits!3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?3 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »So don't go, no one forcing you to do so, there are more ways to trade besides of guild store. Or join guild where guild leader don't gets a cut from sales.
Show me one way I can sell my goods while being offline like the guild vendors can, without being forced into a guild.
Divad at least is fair and dont stuff this cut gold into his own pockets.
What you are asking for OP is literally a global auctionhouse. People want that since 1 year now. I dont think it will eber happen. But even then, you will get a system cut.0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »I like that idea but it still splits up all the different vendors to the point you have to search vendor after vendor.
And that is the real issue.
The purpose of a commodity market is to encourage trade (that benefits both trader and customer) by making that trade as easy and pain free as possible.
The current system doesn't do that at all.
Players may have to search across the entire world to find what they are looking for.
But what happens if the player in question is level 10 and does not yet have access to anywhere but the 1st and 2nd game zones?
Most arguments in favour of the current system seem to be from players that are either a) already at level cap and so have access to the whole game-world, or b) in a trade guild already.
If you are not in at least one of those categories let me tell you, the current system sucks.
And this doesn't even cover the time wasted searching through all the different guild vendors.
The reason every other MMO has a centralised trade system is precisely because a) it works and b) it offer the players the greatest degree of flexibility and ease of use.
The Guild Trader system may be acceptable if there were a single interface to search ALL traders from a single location.
But as it stands it is IMO the very worst aspect of any MMO I have ever played.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.3 -
Chuggernaut✭✭✭I cannot stand the argument that if an AH was added that all the sudden a shadowy few would control the market. When I jump zone to zone looking for something the price on the item is drastically different within 1000 crowns or so. I would prefer paying the higher price to save time.My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo0 -
ZOS_AlexD✭✭✭Hello, everyone. While we understand that the game's economy and the platforms for trade and sale are a very contentious issue, we still expect everyone to bring their ideas to the forums in a constructive and civil manner. Please refrain from resorting to personal comments or jabs when making your case. Thanks for your understanding.2
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Arkadius✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hello, everyone. While we understand that the game's economy and the platforms for trade and sale are a very contentious issue, we still expect everyone to bring their ideas to the forums in a constructive and civil manner. Please refrain from resorting to personal comments or jabs when making your case. Thanks for your understanding.
Just keep the system as it is. Thank you!
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Jaxsun✭✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?
Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.
Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.
I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.
+1, current system leaves something to be desired.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?
It is absolutely impossible for one guild with 500 people max that can only sell 30 items each to "corner" the market. Even a handful of them.
There isn't a dam thing these imaginary tycoons can do to stop the guy in the next kiosk from selling the same items for a cheaper price.
Every BoE item in the game is attainable by anyone. Items sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay for the convenience of not going out and farm it themselves. Rare drops are more expensive because they are just that. Rare.
Edited by Alphashado on April 8, 2015 12:39PM3 -
Nivzruo_ESO✭✭✭✭Current system is trash, only people defending it are doing so because they can get away with over charging new players.Nelgyntc- V14 NB5 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?
It is absolutely impossible for one guild with 500 people max that can only sell 30 items each to "corner" the market. Even a handful of them.
There isn't a dam thing these imaginary tycoons can do to stop the guy in the next kiosk from selling the same items for a cheaper price.
Every BoE item in the game is attainable by anyone. Items sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay for the convenience of not going out and farming it yourself. Rare drops are more expensive because they are just that. Rare.
No but you could have one person running 5 trading guilds with the same 500 people in taking the top trading places.
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?
It is absolutely impossible for one guild with 500 people max that can only sell 30 items each to "corner" the market. Even a handful of them.
There isn't a dam thing these imaginary tycoons can do to stop the guy in the next kiosk from selling the same items for a cheaper price.
Every BoE item in the game is attainable by anyone. Items sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay for the convenience of not going out and farming it yourself. Rare drops are more expensive because they are just that. Rare.
No but you could have one person running 5 trading guilds with the same 500 people in taking the top trading places.
As an officer in an established trading guild that has been around since launch, I can tell you that it is a lot of work keeping ONE guild full of 500 active members. 5-10 people have to be replaced every other day on average due to inactive accounts from people leaving the game. It is almost impossible for me to imagine how much work and effort would be required to maintain 5 guilds with 500 active members.
And even if such a remarkable feat were to be accomplished, all you would have to do is find another kiosk. There are 122 of them in the game.
There is an incredible amount of misconceptions about trading guilds in this game. Usually made by people that have no idea what they are talking about.
The vast majority of them are nothing more than a collection of normal people trying to have fun and sell their items at market price using the system they are stuck with.
There are addons like Master Merchant and Shopkeeper that list the average selling price for items based on the average of all the guilds that player is in. Most of the prices you see are based on that. Average sales. If something is too high, people will go elsewhere to find it.
And if said item is always expensive everywhere you look, it's because it is a rare item and it sells for an average price that people are willing to pay for the effort someone ELSE put into farming it or crafting it.
Edited by Alphashado on April 8, 2015 12:59PM3 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?
It is absolutely impossible for one guild with 500 people max that can only sell 30 items each to "corner" the market. Even a handful of them.
There isn't a dam thing these imaginary tycoons can do to stop the guy in the next kiosk from selling the same items for a cheaper price.
Every BoE item in the game is attainable by anyone. Items sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay for the convenience of not going out and farming it yourself. Rare drops are more expensive because they are just that. Rare.
No but you could have one person running 5 trading guilds with the same 500 people in taking the top trading places.
As an officer in an established trading guild that has been around since launch, I can tell you that it is a lot of work keeping ONE guild full of 500 active members. 5-10 people have to be replaced every other day on average due to inactive accounts from people leaving the game. It is almost impossible for me to imagine how much work and effort would be required to maintain 5 guilds with 500 active members.
And even if such a remarkable feat were to be accomplished, all you would have to do is find another kiosk. There are 122 of them in the game.
There is an incredible amount of misconceptions about trading guilds in this game. Usually made by people that have no idea what they are talking about.
The vast majority of them are nothing more than a collection of normal people trying to have fun and sell their items at market price using the system they are stuck with.
What I mean is every member has to join the 5 guilds so there's less work to do. You replace them in one guild you replace them in all the guilds.
Now out of the 122 vendors there are about 20 that are really wanted. You own 5 of them.
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Wolfshead✭✭✭✭In one way i understand OP point of view but i'm guild but i dont use guild trader i just sell to vendor if i dont destroy item for get point in craft but then again i have close 100K gold without using guild trader i do sometime sell in channels but not very often and still i have good sum of money.
Even in other like SWTOR or WoW "when i was playing that game" i hardly use AH to make money but i still have money so buy the thing i want it is not hard to make money if you want do and honest at it is very easy to make money in ESO i make easy 5000 to 10000 gold just form few hour play in ESO that is basically just from do quest and sell thing i dont need to vendor.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm going to ask the obvious question here, which I'm pretty of the answer.
Liam - Have you EVER run a Trading Guild in ESO?
(And just so we're clear, YES or NO!).
As Alpha said, running a Guild is a massive commitment. People complain about "having to travel to other areas to find items". Well, imagine doing that kind of time investment, almost every night and more at the weekend, JUST to keep a productive Guild running.
I'm a deputy in a 450 strong guild - although about 150 active...and it's a shed load of work!
I've been in 12 Guilds and settled on 5 - although presently thinking of swapping one out as they are not active enough and keep losing their Trader. Not ONE of them has been questionable/dodgy/iffy/etc - never had a problem with any of them.CP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
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✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭1 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭In one way i understand OP point of view but i'm guild but i dont use guild trader i just sell to vendor if i dont destroy item for get point in craft but then again i have close 100K gold without using guild trader i do sometime sell in channels but not very often and still i have good sum of money.
Even in other like SWTOR or WoW "when i was playing that game" i hardly use AH to make money but i still have money so buy the thing i want it is not hard to make money if you want do and honest at it is very easy to make money in ESO i make easy 5000 to 10000 gold just form few hour play in ESO that is basically just from do quest and sell thing i dont need to vendor.
That's how I do it, I am currently sitting on about 30k that's after spending over 150k on bank and bag space and going from 0 to 40 in provisioning from buying mats.
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liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭I'm going to ask the obvious question here, which I'm pretty of the answer.
Liam - Have you EVER run a Trading Guild in ESO?
(And just so we're clear, YES or NO!).
As Alpha said, running a Guild is a massive commitment. People complain about "having to travel to other areas to find items". Well, imagine doing that kind of time investment, almost every night and more at the weekend, JUST to keep a productive Guild running.
I'm a deputy in a 450 strong guild - although about 150 active...and it's a shed load of work!
I've been in 12 Guilds and settled on 5 - although presently thinking of swapping one out as they are not active enough and keep losing their Trader. Not ONE of them has been questionable/dodgy/iffy/etc - never had a problem with any of them.
No I haven't.
Your missing my point though, it's got nothing to do with who's in the guild really. It's the fact I have to be in one in the first place.
Would you be happy if you had to join a guild if you wanted to quest?
Would you be happy if you had to join a guild if you wanted to run a dungeon?
Would you be happy being forced into joining a guild to do anything that involves some 3rd party player who has no business in what your doing in the first place?
It's like having to ask my mum can I sell my old games to game It's ridicules.
Edited by liammozzb16_ESO on April 8, 2015 1:18PM2 -
Arkadius✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?
It is absolutely impossible for one guild with 500 people max that can only sell 30 items each to "corner" the market. Even a handful of them.
There isn't a dam thing these imaginary tycoons can do to stop the guy in the next kiosk from selling the same items for a cheaper price.
Every BoE item in the game is attainable by anyone. Items sell for whatever price someone is willing to pay for the convenience of not going out and farming it yourself. Rare drops are more expensive because they are just that. Rare.
No but you could have one person running 5 trading guilds with the same 500 people in taking the top trading places.
As an officer in an established trading guild that has been around since launch, I can tell you that it is a lot of work keeping ONE guild full of 500 active members. 5-10 people have to be replaced every other day on average due to inactive accounts from people leaving the game. It is almost impossible for me to imagine how much work and effort would be required to maintain 5 guilds with 500 active members.
And even if such a remarkable feat were to be accomplished, all you would have to do is find another kiosk. There are 122 of them in the game.
There is an incredible amount of misconceptions about trading guilds in this game. Usually made by people that have no idea what they are talking about.
The vast majority of them are nothing more than a collection of normal people trying to have fun and sell their items at market price using the system they are stuck with.
What I mean is every member has to join the 5 guilds so there's less work to do. You replace them in one guild you replace them in all the guilds.
Now out of the 122 vendors there are about 20 that are really wanted. You own 5 of them.
That's simply ridiculous. One will never ever find 500 people that will all join the same 5 guilds. Be realistic.1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭although presently thinking of swapping one out as they are not active enough and keep losing their Trader.
Which is, of course, another serious flaw with the current system.
Now, were we to have a permanent centralised trade system, independent of guild membership no player would face losing access to the trade facility just because their guild was not active enough, or couldn't afford to pay for Guild Trader.
The current Guild Trader system also over-inflates commodity prices because so much gold is required just to keep hold of a trade kiosk.
Now the game has gone B2P (and that only happened because it will increase overall revenue) it is inevitable that the current trade system will have to be abandoned. Many, many casual players are locked out of the trade system currently and for some of them that will be a cause for concern about their future commitment to the game.
Once players start leaving the game, or as word gets around, not even buying to try the game because of the horribly flawed trade system then Zeni will have no choice but to change things.
At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.
And even though the game is now B2P I am actually paying for a subscription. But I con't honestly say how long that will continue as long as I am constantly stonewalled by an entirely dysfunctional trade system.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.3 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Gandrhulf_Harbard I can understand peoples comments about a centralised system. I just don't think it's a good thing for various reasons I've posted multiple times. You may as well change the name of whatever it would become to "Pound/Dollar Store" as everything will ultimately be cheapened.At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.
I have no idea where you are coming from with this statement. I started in January. I have 7 characters (4 are mules). 3 are maxed in Enchanting, Woodwork, Clothing, Blacksmithing. I've not bothered with the others as I have friends who do this and can give me the stuff when I need it (provisioning or potions). How on earth is the trade system actually preventing you from doing that? I can only assume it's because you want to purchase the mats you need rather than go and look for them. If so, that's not a trade issue, that's a personal preference issue
If there is a change that needs to be made.....and I'm not saying that there should be....then the obvious one would be adding a "half way house" where anyone can join (subject to not being part of another guild) and you can list/add 30 items to the system there. I tell you one thing right now however, there will be sooooo much crap on that site it will be un-real. Every Tom *** and harry will be posting up their 15 Iron Ore for 100g or 7 Raw Birch for 50g. I would HATE to see the size of the DB filled with crap, having 100's of people constantly loading it and reloading it and searching it..... *Shudders for the BI guys in ZoS*CP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
CP561 Naked Nord | Tanky DK | Stamigicka Build
✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?
This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.
Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.
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Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭If you absolutely abhor guilds to the point where you refuse to be in one (totally understandable, everyone has their own opinion), then might I suggest just utilizing zone chat to sell your wares? Have a few good friends and you might be able to essentially have a trade partner that is willing to cut you in the profits. I made more than a few shiny pennies using this method when I was looking for a guild to dedicate to.
As it stands, there is no way for a player with no guild to have access to a system that will allow them partake in the economy (save for 'social' methods like those referenced above). Many threads have been opened discussing ideas such as stalls, 'open-market' trading zones, expansion on hireling duties, etc. I would much rather embrace those ideas that have an auction house implemented. I'm a players-can-set-up-stalls advocate myself.1 -
sylviermoone✭✭✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.
Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.
He (or she) didn't say you could sell your items at a vendor without being in a guild, he said you can trade items for gold without being in a guild, as man people do via zone chat.
I like the current system, though I will agree that it can be sucky for low level chars, as they don't have access to a vast majority of the games vendors.
I think a possible solution to this issue that fits with the current system would be to implement a second tier of vendors, either several consolidated in a specific place (perhaps Eyevea?) or one trader per zone that is open to all players.
I'm lucky enough to be in 3 guilds that work incredibly hard to keep their vendors week after week. Those guilds are established, they formed early in the game's life, and they organized quickly and efficiently when the guild trader system was put into place. I can assure you, no GM in those guilds is simply "pocketing the profit".
For whatever issues people have with the current trade system, it is still a significant improvement on the old system, which only allowed access to buy and sell in the guilds you were in. Now, instead of only being able to buy from 5 guilds at the most, you have the ability to hop around and shop through a multitude of stores.Co-GM, Angry Unicorn Traders: PC/NA
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@sylviermoone2 -
psufan5✭✭✭✭Just make the search for items look through ALL guild stores, but make you go TO the store to purchase it. It can tell you what city the vendor is in, and you have to travel there to get your item.
Surgical Incision
Former Emperor
USPS42 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.
Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.
I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available
There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.
Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.
ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.
Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.
IF they had no need to use player interactions...considering the heavy focus on single player content there would be no reason for this game to be an MMO. It would just be a game that you have to log online to play. Occasional grouping for dungeons would be the limited player to player interaction and then we would see thousands of threads asking...why is online required if no sub and no need for player interaction.
This is the main focus of guilds...to enhance player to player interactions and to fight for access to commerceEdited by NewBlacksmurf on April 8, 2015 2:11PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012