Please do not remove veteran ranks.

skarvika · April 2015

What are ya, some kind of sadist?

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · April 2015

I have consulted with My Lord and Master, Foamy, and he has imparted to me his Squirrelly Wisdom on this matter.

The following statement is my interpretation of My Lord and Master, Foamy, wise words. It is better for me to use my interpretation then to use direct quote as His exact words would make His Highness, The Pince of Darkness, Ozzy Osbourne, blush.

Ok, let's look at the options. Remove the ranks of veteran and replace them with 51-63. So you basically want the coders to leave what they are doing in order to improve the game for the sake of a name change? Do you know how much money that would cost? The bean counters will not like this at all.

Remove the Veteran Ranks totally, linking the current Attribute and Skill Points gained from levelling to certain CP points gained. Ok, let me try to understand this, you are crying that 14 million XP is too much to get to cap from Vet 1 to Vet 14 and you would rather have the CP system where you would need 1.4 BILLION XP to cap? And as the CP system would now be linked to Skill and Attribute points, more powerful equipment and better provisions, that 1.4 BILLION XP would have to be earned on the character intending to use said Skill and Attribute points, more powerful equipment and better provisions whilst also removing the coders from doing work to improve and expand the game to do this.

Remove Veteran Rank totally and scale everything down to level 50... Yeah, good luck in dealing with the response to that.

Leave it as it is, spending the time to improve and expand on the game. If a developer has some spare time between projects, said developer can review the Veteran Rank System and come up with a workable solution that would make the players happy, the Board of Directors happy and the Accounts Department happy. I don't know myself, but I think this could be the way forward.

bg22 · April 2015

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be all too thrilled to have all of this advancement yanked out from under me. I'd probably unsub. If people don't want to do Cadwell's quests, then provide a valid alternative for advancing (like an expansion pack with totally new content), but keep Cadwell's G/S in place. I personally enjoy them and would be sorely disappointed if I suddenly wasn't able to complete them. I do not plan on playing alts. I always play MMOs with a single character and don't want to have to create new ones to enjoy the other content.

They're removing the ranks. Nothing else. Not gold and silver, not your advancement (you will be "back paid" in champion points).

The only difference will be that gold/silver will be optional, and not forced upon ppl who could give two craps about it.

You'll now have the option of being competitive in Cyrodiil at 50, or go raiding end game with friends, or do trials, etc.

So yeah! Options are bad! If you give me options and take away the huge gaps that are known as Veteran ranks I'm quitting!, said no logical person ever.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Teiji · April 2015

Please change title to something not so misleading.

Original poster wants all the quests related to Cadwell's Alamanac to not be removed from the game.

#FixMistFormDamageReduction
#FixSkoriaShoulderDropratePls

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · April 2015

bg22 wrote: »

The only difference will be that gold/silver will be optional, and not forced upon ppl who could give two craps about it.

You'll now have the option of being competitive in Cyrodiil at 50, or go raiding end game with friends, or do trials, etc.

So yeah! Options are bad! If you give me options and take away the huge gaps that are known as Veteran ranks I'm quitting!, said no logical person ever.

So Cadwell Silver and Gold are not optional now? I have to do these quests in order to level up? I can't get the XP from doing Craglorn or Cyrodil alone?

Wouldn't it better if they just remove the gates from entering the opposing faction territory instead and leave everything else intact in case you decide to do them to earn the achievements for the character you are on?

Varicite · April 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

Leave VR levels alone and focus on content.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

The only difference will be that gold/silver will be optional, and not forced upon ppl who could give two craps about it.

You'll now have the option of being competitive in Cyrodiil at 50, or go raiding end game with friends, or do trials, etc.

So yeah! Options are bad! If you give me options and take away the huge gaps that are known as Veteran ranks I'm quitting!, said no logical person ever.

So Cadwell Silver and Gold are not optional now? I have to do these quests in order to level up? I can't get the XP from doing Craglorn or Cyrodil alone?

Wouldn't it better if they just remove the gates from entering the opposing faction territory instead and leave everything else intact in case you decide to do them to earn the achievements for the character you are on?

You're going to have a bad time in Craglorn at V1, just sayin'. And not much better in Cyrodiil.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

You're going to have a bad time in Craglorn at V1, just sayin'. And not much better in Cyrodiil.

True, but on the other hand, a good team that is well balanced, with excellent leadership can ease the pain. If one or more with me is Vet 11 or above, I'm more then happy to drag a new Vet through Craglorn kicking and screaming. As for Cyrodil, I've seen Vet 14s have a harder time then Vet 1.

Apart from the gate that prevent you from entering a certain faction because you haven't completed a certain quest at Vet level, the other gates are imaginary, player induced.

Just came to me now, wouldn't it be another idea to release DLC and give an extra free zone or 2 where xp can be gained from Vet 1 -14.

Anoteros · April 2015

Remove Veteran ranks. Open up ALL of Tamriel from the get go. Factions mean jack *** anyways apart from PVP.
Quests after 50 will just give champion points. Those who already have v14 can just get compensated with champion points.

I don't see ZOS doing this but one can only hope.

driosketch · April 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Don't be shocked when ZoS realizes the impossibility of rebalancing the game down to level 50 and posts a letter saying Ranks are here too stay.

I'm not sure what players who want VR gone expect. Do they want the stats of every vet player squashed down to level 50, or do they want everyone's stats to suddenly balloon to VR14 levels as soon as they hit 50?

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

Chuggernaut wrote: »

I'm pretty sure post VR removal, equipment will start to work work off your max CPs, kind of like Diablo 3.

People complained about the gear grind each time VRs were raised. I can only imagine when 150cp gear comes out, 300cp, 1000?

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

The only difference will be that gold/silver will be optional, and not forced upon ppl who could give two craps about it.

You'll now have the option of being competitive in Cyrodiil at 50, or go raiding end game with friends, or do trials, etc.

So yeah! Options are bad! If you give me options and take away the huge gaps that are known as Veteran ranks I'm quitting!, said no logical person ever.

So Cadwell Silver and Gold are not optional now? I have to do these quests in order to level up? I can't get the XP from doing Craglorn or Cyrodil alone?

Wouldn't it better if they just remove the gates from entering the opposing faction territory instead and leave everything else intact in case you decide to do them to earn the achievements for the character you are on?

There's still the skill points to get.

Varicite wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Leave VR levels alone and focus on content.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

The only difference will be that gold/silver will be optional, and not forced upon ppl who could give two craps about it.

You'll now have the option of being competitive in Cyrodiil at 50, or go raiding end game with friends, or do trials, etc.

So yeah! Options are bad! If you give me options and take away the huge gaps that are known as Veteran ranks I'm quitting!, said no logical person ever.

So Cadwell Silver and Gold are not optional now? I have to do these quests in order to level up? I can't get the XP from doing Craglorn or Cyrodil alone?

Wouldn't it better if they just remove the gates from entering the opposing faction territory instead and leave everything else intact in case you decide to do them to earn the achievements for the character you are on?

You're going to have a bad time in Craglorn at V1, just sayin'. And not much better in Cyrodiil.

Been there at VR 1, with the right build at worse I would call it challenging. Not what I consider a bad time.

Ace_SiN · April 2015

kewl wrote: »

Leveling from VR1 - VR14 was about as much fun as rubbing broken glass into my eyes. Done it three times already. They need to go, K-T extinction style.

Yup.. I've done it twice and now I'm close to completing my third. The sooner they remove vet ranks, the sooner I can start persuading my guild to return to the game.

ItsGlaive · April 2015

Zhoyzu wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Don't be shocked when ZoS realizes the impossibility of rebalancing the game down to level 50 and posts a letter saying Ranks are here too stay.

id be livid

Same here.

VR really does slow this game down. It takes work to level, sure. But 1-50 is enough, by the time you've reached that peak you're ready to participate in end game activities, only, with VR, you're only a third of the way through. No end game grouping for you!

This is why I'd like them removed. If you need to keep Cadwell's then keep it, but allow us to cap at 50 and join our friends in raids and PVP pls.

Zhoyzu · April 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Don't be shocked when ZoS realizes the impossibility of rebalancing the game down to level 50 and posts a letter saying Ranks are here too stay.

id be livid

I'm just saying when you think about it, really think about it! The idea of balancing the game and all of the higher crafted gear down to lvl 50 not too mention stats alone, It's seems to me like an unrealistic goal. We shouldn't have unreal expectations...

I know LOL thats why id be livid. i was so excited for the removal of VR system as CS is more alt friendly. If VR stays that'll blow. I feel like the CS system fixed alot of issues this game had. now gold silver will be fun as i can stroll through it rather then sprint.

Theres something about building your character from the ground up that makes playing it feel worth while. i never could play on the PTS if i didnt have a character port. it always felt too wrong and too alien. i couldnt ever replicate my character. Adding a v14 template once finishing gold or hitting v14 would just kinda of ruin the experience of character building.

Altaholism, builds character.

Anilahation · April 2015

Glurin wrote: »

Future patch notes:

Veteran ranks removed.

Maximum level raised to 63.

I'd be fine for this.

VR1 and VR14 dungeons are different difficulty and removing VR removes options.

that being said doing cadwells gold and silver alone should allow you to reach vr10 even maybe VR8.

Varicite · April 2015

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

You're going to have a bad time in Craglorn at V1, just sayin'. And not much better in Cyrodiil.

True, but on the other hand, a good team that is well balanced, with excellent leadership can ease the pain. If one or more with me is Vet 11 or above, I'm more then happy to drag a new Vet through Craglorn kicking and screaming. As for Cyrodil, I've seen Vet 14s have a harder time then Vet 1.

Apart from the gate that prevent you from entering a certain faction because you haven't completed a certain quest at Vet level, the other gates are imaginary, player induced.

Just came to me now, wouldn't it be another idea to release DLC and give an extra free zone or 2 where xp can be gained from Vet 1 -14.

Not everyone has access to a "team" of friends at all times just to level up, though.

That is one of the major complaints about Craglorn anyway, the forced grouping and wonky system that requires that ALL players be on the exact same quest step or be unable to see each other at times.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

that being said doing cadwells gold and silver alone should allow you to reach vr10 even maybe VR8.

Out of curiosity, how many times have YOU done Cadwell's Silver and Gold?

I'm working through Gold my 5th time right now. It's painfully tedious. So much that I'd rather just buy a different game, even one that I pay for, than to do this again.

And I still have another VR toon to drag through that nonsense...

As a result, I'm not playing my VR characters much right now, just messing around on alts, because I've been waiting patiently for ZOS to make good on removing this ridiculous grind.

$infraction2008b16_ESO$ · April 2015

Having 63 levels instead of vet ranks would be a pointless change as it would be pretty much the same as vet ranks just with a name change. Having gear linked to cp would also be pointless, while there would be the benefit of not having to grind for alts the grind would still exist for newer players and endgame would be a confusing place where people are not geared for content despite being at the correct level.

What I think should happen instead is scale everything to 50 and replace all vr gear with a single level 50 set equivelent to current vr14 sets and instead have an alternative gear progression tied to champion rank like a new tier of good craftable set bonuses that you can only use when you meet the CR requirements.

That way someone who hits 50 for the first time can gear up to take part in dungeons, trials, pvp etc but there will still be some gear you'll have to work hard and grind before you can put on.

Seraphyel · April 2015

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be all too thrilled to have all of this advancement yanked out from under me. I'd probably unsub. If people don't want to do Cadwell's quests, then provide a valid alternative for advancing (like an expansion pack with totally new content), but keep Cadwell's G/S in place. I personally enjoy them and would be sorely disappointed if I suddenly wasn't able to complete them. I do not plan on playing alts. I always play MMOs with a single character and don't want to have to create new ones to enjoy the other content.

They will remove them.

VR is the worst part about ESO. Cadwells Silver & Gold won't be removed but the whole VR system is just awful and needed to be removed months ago.

Varicite · April 2015

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Having 63 levels instead of vet ranks would be a pointless change as it would be pretty much the same as vet ranks just with a name change. Having gear linked to cp would also be pointless, while there would be the benefit of not having to grind for alts the grind would still exist for newer players and endgame would be a confusing place where people are not geared for content despite being at the correct level.

What I think should happen instead is scale everything to 50 and replace all vr gear with a single level 50 set equivelent to current vr14 sets and instead have an alternative gear progression tied to champion rank like a new tier of good craftable set bonuses that you can only use when you meet the CR requirements.

That way someone who hits 50 for the first time can gear up to take part in dungeons, trials, pvp etc but there will still be some gear you'll have to work hard and grind before you can put on.

While I do agree that a level cap raise does sound like pretty much the same as vet ranks on paper, I think it should be noted that it really depends on how those extra levels are handed.

Currently:

1 VR = 10x the XP of a normal level
1 VR = 2x the power gain of a normal level

If this was changed to be more in line w/ normal levels (both power gain AND XP required), the grind that currently exists would be largely abolished.

As well, ways to GAIN XP would need to be increased. Zones that scale to your current level are a step in the right direction, providing opportunities to gain XP outside of the traditional forced Silver -> Gold -> Craglorn / AoE grind that has become so dauntingly tedious to players.

With that said, I actually do agree w/ what you've said here about simply scaling everyone back to 50 - I think that overall that would be best for the game in general, allowing players the freedom to choose which endgame activities they take part in to gain the necessary CP w/out an unnecessary artificial gating method that only serves to separate players.

We need to keep in mind one thing:

The MAIN aim of the Champion System and removal of VRs is to diminish the separation between players that currently exists post-50 and to allow MORE players the freedom of choice when reaching 50.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] The system shouldn’t separate players more.

Finally, some people seem to be concerned w/ the skill points received from attaining VR ranks. ZOS has already stated that these will NOT be removed from players, so there should be no need to worry:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.

cyclonus11 · April 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Please change title to something not so misleading.

Original poster wants all the quests related to Cadwell's Alamanac to not be removed from the game.

#FixMistFormDamageReduction
#FixSkoriaShoulderDropratePls

False. I don't want veteran ranks removed. I don't want to lose my advancement (so I will accept an equal trade-off, such as normal levels). And my comments on Caldwell's are in regards to people complaining about having to do those. Like I said, give an alternative (new content) for people to advance to VR14. And CP's are a terrible substitute.

Rook_Master · April 2015

Vet Ranks are fine. I agree with OP. It's so much development effort to change everthing like the itemization and monster stats. Let's just keep it and focus on new content at this point.

Jando · April 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

The only thing they need to to is make the xp needed to attain the next vr rank scale the way it does form 1-49. That's it. They don't have to remove any levels, content, gear etc. Then, when they introduce new content they won't have to increase the level cap because the content is needed for attaining champion points.

I agree...I have like 5 posts suggesting this very approach...including in this thread.

The VR grind can be almost completely removed by a simple hotfix. This must be obvious to ZoS, so I think it's pretty clear that they are having second thoughts about removing Veteran Ranks. Most likely because they feel it will negatively affect their revenue model funded by ESO+ and soon to be available XP Pots.

Jando · April 2015

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

Varicite · April 2015

Jando wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

How else do you go from V1-V10 w/out doing Silver and Gold.

ZOS quite clearly does NOT want you grinding for this xp, as they nerf every spot they find to be decent xp returns. The only other method is PvP for 10 Veteran ranks, and then another 4 more?

What a silly statement, of course Silver and Gold are directly linked to VR, it's the only real content in which to actually OBTAIN VRs.

Part of the point of removing VRs themselves is to UNLINK Cadwell's Almanac from endgame progression and actually MAKE it optional content.

Father · April 2015

I prefer to play without the grind of level. No problem grinding for Champion points as it will be with my guildmates in any of my characters not just the Vr14 ones.

Jando · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

How else do you go from V1-V10 w/out doing Silver and Gold.

ZOS quite clearly does NOT want you grinding for this xp, as they nerf every spot they find to be decent xp returns. The only other method is PvP for 10 Veteran ranks, and then another 4 more?

What a silly statement, of course Silver and Gold are directly linked to VR, it's the only real content in which to actually OBTAIN VRs.

Part of the point of removing VRs themselves is to UNLINK Cadwell's Almanac from endgame progression and actually MAKE it optional content.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

driosketch · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

How else do you go from V1-V10 w/out doing Silver and Gold.

ZOS quite clearly does NOT want you grinding for this xp, as they nerf every spot they find to be decent xp returns. The only other method is PvP for 10 Veteran ranks, and then another 4 more?

What a silly statement, of course Silver and Gold are directly linked to VR, it's the only real content in which to actually OBTAIN VRs.

Part of the point of removing VRs themselves is to UNLINK Cadwell's Almanac from endgame progression and actually MAKE it optional content.

Right.

I'm not going to claim Gold and Silver was well implemented. It exists for single character players to do all the content without alts and as an easy way to inflate endgame content. None the less, a year later it is tied to game progression. The availability skill points alone makes the zones hard to ignore.

I guess if you made the zones all a flat level 50, you could rely to the story to carry you through. It would just seem weird to me to have the effective difficulty of the later zones become easier where as in 1-49 the zone enemies increased in strength along with your character's progression the farther you went.

driosketch · April 2015

Jando wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

How else do you go from V1-V10 w/out doing Silver and Gold.

ZOS quite clearly does NOT want you grinding for this xp, as they nerf every spot they find to be decent xp returns. The only other method is PvP for 10 Veteran ranks, and then another 4 more?

What a silly statement, of course Silver and Gold are directly linked to VR, it's the only real content in which to actually OBTAIN VRs.

Part of the point of removing VRs themselves is to UNLINK Cadwell's Almanac from endgame progression and actually MAKE it optional content.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

@Jando You might be missing the flaw I'm pointing out. So let me pose these questions to you.

What level are the NPCs in each zone of Silver/Gold with this change?

If you have a player like OP who likes doing these quests, after the first zone of just doing the quests and objectives, what level should the player be at?

Without having a player outlevel the content they are doing, assuming no grinding or PvP but still killing mobs along the way, what needs to happen to the exp gains in each zone of Silver/Gold to keep this balance?

Varicite · April 2015

Jando wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

How else do you go from V1-V10 w/out doing Silver and Gold.

ZOS quite clearly does NOT want you grinding for this xp, as they nerf every spot they find to be decent xp returns. The only other method is PvP for 10 Veteran ranks, and then another 4 more?

What a silly statement, of course Silver and Gold are directly linked to VR, it's the only real content in which to actually OBTAIN VRs.

Part of the point of removing VRs themselves is to UNLINK Cadwell's Almanac from endgame progression and actually MAKE it optional content.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

This is most likely going to be the solution, imo, but it doesn't have to be.

You could honestly just scale everyone back to lv50. Yes, I do understand exactly how much this would shake things up by removing crafting mats and a sense of progression, but this would hardly be the first time ZOS has done something like this.

Just hear me out. Barring the frustration that some players will undoubtedly feel at losing those 14 ranks, ZOS has stated implicitly that you would still not be losing the skill points gained from advancing through the Veteran ranks.

With everyone as a level 50, Cadwell's Almanac then becomes a CHOICE for those who wish to experience the other factions' storylines, a huge source of skill points, and most importantly a method of advancement for gaining CP.

If you dislike this, you could still PvP or AoE grind, but w/out the huge artificial gap between 50 and endgame, one could start obtaining the gear that they need to participate in OTHER endgame activities like Trials much sooner.

But what about progression? Trials would be rewarding powerful Season gear, giving players a much-needed carrot for their now-empty sticks and for those just hitting the endgame scene, previous Season's gear would be obtainable in a much easier fashion so they would no longer be barred from playing the game how they like.

And of course, there IS the Champ system that is supposed to allow players more flexibility in how they spec their characters. I personally would have liked to see a cap on the total number of CP a character could use, making the system one of horizontal progression rather than an extremely long vertical one, but it is still rather new.

Again, I DO understand the frustration at losing perceived progression in the Veteran system, but the whole system is just an artificial gating tool that serves more to separate players (and cause them to leave entirely) more than anything else. While its concept may be sound, the simple reality of the situation is that Veteran ranks are driving much of the player base away. I'm reluctant to hold on to any vestige of this debacle.

I honestly feel that the game as a whole will be SO MUCH better for everyone once it's been cleansed of the VR system and there is much more actual CHOICE brought back to a game founded on that very principle.

Jando · April 2015

driosketch wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I have another thread (one of many) on this same issue.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

Gold and Silver is based around one VR per zone. For 1-49, each zone covers several levels. They would need to either increase the number of levels, or, more likely, rebalance all the xp gains. Especially for CP, which considering the time to point gain rate the devs are aiming for, would leave you with the same time to grind, just with smaller numbers.

No. Gold and Silver are not directly linked to Veteran Ranks, nor should they be. They are optional content. Other than reducing the amount of xp to earn a Veteran Rank, they can leave everything exactly as it is now and everything will be fine. Champion Points have nothing to do with this discussion. It's a separate issue.

How else do you go from V1-V10 w/out doing Silver and Gold.

ZOS quite clearly does NOT want you grinding for this xp, as they nerf every spot they find to be decent xp returns. The only other method is PvP for 10 Veteran ranks, and then another 4 more?

What a silly statement, of course Silver and Gold are directly linked to VR, it's the only real content in which to actually OBTAIN VRs.

Part of the point of removing VRs themselves is to UNLINK Cadwell's Almanac from endgame progression and actually MAKE it optional content.

My simple solution is not to remove veteran ranks, but to lower the xp required to gain each rank equal the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50. Essentially, VR14 becomes level 63. No other changes to the game are required. It can probably be done in a hotfix. Problem solved. Should have been done months ago.

@Jando You might be missing the flaw I'm pointing out. So let me pose these questions to you.

What level are the NPCs in each zone of Silver/Gold with this change?

If you have a player like OP who likes doing these quests, after the first zone of just doing the quests and objectives, what level should the player be at?

Without having a player outlevel the content they are doing, assuming no grinding or PvP but still killing mobs along the way, what needs to happen to the exp gains in each zone of Silver/Gold to keep this balance?

For now, NPC will be the same level they are now. No change.

Hmmm...I would imagine a player would be approximately VR5? by the time they leave the first zone.

It's a fool's errand to try to keep it balanced. The only potential solution is to make all Cadwell Gold /Silver NPC's something like Veteran Rank 20 and then "Battle Level" everyone up appropriately when they enter a Gold/Silver zone.

driosketch · April 2015

Jando wrote: »

It's a fool's errand to try to keep it balanced. The only potential solution is to make all Cadwell Gold /Silver NPC's something like Veteran Rank 20 and then "Battle Level" everyone up appropriately when they enter a Gold/Silver zone.

And with that your solution is no longer as simple as a hot fix. That's all I was getting at.

Not saying it's a bad idea. That's actually an interesting work around. It just isn't a simple one.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

With recently added 3600 CP's to work towards, honestly, what's the benefit to removing the ranks at this point?

There are so many unintended consequences that would result - it's not broken, no reason to 'fix' it.

VR14 is very attainable, and unless you have no plans to gather CP's, you'd end up getting their regardless.

Other than flattening out the gear 50+ (which would eventually simplify things), there is no purpose to it. Either way they would change gear, something would get missed and something would end up out of balance, again.