Ill be honest, I think its a lot of players spamming abilities and using there crappy internet I mean they already know they have a bad ping and they continue to log in and play , and then you have the Euro/oceanic doing the same thing.....Oooh wait there's never a thread that the Euro servers in pvp lagging or screwing up?

Can we deep six a few of these servers and get fresh ones

Leovolao wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Lag so bad last night on Chill that you went through a door and found yourself outside again.
Siege, didn't work most of the time and of course abilites didn't respond.
Went back to non vet, much more enjoyable.

Patience is a virtue. The lag only lasted like 10 mins during the Alessia fight zerg.

jaebdub wrote: »

The lag created at Alessia saved Ash and our emperorship today. We were able to res at Ash because DC couldn't use siege and then proceeded to wipe them. So, thank you for that. Turned the entire day around for us.

This was amazing. I feel a little sorry for the DC because EP totally screwed them by hitting Alessia that hard it actually saved our emp. Outer breached, inner almost breached, uh-oh siege stops working! Keep unflags a few minutes later and we res and kill them

I find it funny how EP always makes excuses about organized groups fighting as the source of the lag. Yet at that Alessia cap there were almost no AD there (that I could see) and the server was lagging so much I was unkillable on the flag for a straight minute.

FPS drops happen when u are fighting in an area with alot of people and alot of particles.

Latency drops happen no matter where you are in Cyrodiil. Different causes :

- Your internet service provider
- Campaign is full (3 faction max pop or very close to be)
- 20+ players spamming aoes (usually when they flip flags inside keeps)

So when you say that we were experiencing a huge latency at Alessia even tho almost no AD were present, you're obviously trying to say that EP only was the root of the problem, as always. The thing is, if AD was fighting at Ash with DC at the same time we were pushing flags at Alessia, that may have overloaded the server right there.

Also, the way the server handles the overload, it will sent packets to random clients. In other words, some people may get higher pings than other depending of how the server handles it. This is why during high latency, some people are able to send &/or receive data from the server when other people are stuck with 10-20k ping and aren't able to do anything. Nothing you can do about it.

This is also why some people complained here that when we experiment latency issues, even if you are on the other side of your faction's gates, you can experiment latency there aswell. Because a huge fight was going on somewhere on the map.

So when you say that there was almost no AD at Alessia but it still lagged, the root of the problem was not necessary EP causing the lag at Alessia by fighting npcs, but the overall bandwith getting transfered in the whole map.

Didn't bothered to read that huge wall of text. All I know is that there wasn't another big fight on the map, as far as I know Alacrity wasn't fighting at Ash (Mano already said the lag made Ash unflag, allowing them to rez there). Someone from Ala correct me if I'm wrong please.
Im not spoutting the usual lagsploiting rage here. I dont think you guys do it on purpose, I just think you don't care as long as you are winning.

If by "winning" they mean getting farmed for 60k/hr+ for over 3 hours then I guess so. Had to organize that massive force to get a keep

WRX wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Lag so bad last night on Chill that you went through a door and found yourself outside again.
Siege, didn't work most of the time and of course abilites didn't respond.
Went back to non vet, much more enjoyable.

Patience is a virtue. The lag only lasted like 10 mins during the Alessia fight zerg.

jaebdub wrote: »

The lag created at Alessia saved Ash and our emperorship today. We were able to res at Ash because DC couldn't use siege and then proceeded to wipe them. So, thank you for that. Turned the entire day around for us.

This was amazing. I feel a little sorry for the DC because EP totally screwed them by hitting Alessia that hard it actually saved our emp. Outer breached, inner almost breached, uh-oh siege stops working! Keep unflags a few minutes later and we res and kill them

I find it funny how EP always makes excuses about organized groups fighting as the source of the lag. Yet at that Alessia cap there were almost no AD there (that I could see) and the server was lagging so much I was unkillable on the flag for a straight minute.

FPS drops happen when u are fighting in an area with alot of people and alot of particles.

Latency drops happen no matter where you are in Cyrodiil. Different causes :

- Your internet service provider
- Campaign is full (3 faction max pop or very close to be)
- 20+ players spamming aoes (usually when they flip flags inside keeps)

So when you say that we were experiencing a huge latency at Alessia even tho almost no AD were present, you're obviously trying to say that EP only was the root of the problem, as always. The thing is, if AD was fighting at Ash with DC at the same time we were pushing flags at Alessia, that may have overloaded the server right there.

Also, the way the server handles the overload, it will sent packets to random clients. In other words, some people may get higher pings than other depending of how the server handles it. This is why during high latency, some people are able to send &/or receive data from the server when other people are stuck with 10-20k ping and aren't able to do anything. Nothing you can do about it.

This is also why some people complained here that when we experiment latency issues, even if you are on the other side of your faction's gates, you can experiment latency there aswell. Because a huge fight was going on somewhere on the map.

So when you say that there was almost no AD at Alessia but it still lagged, the root of the problem was not necessary EP causing the lag at Alessia by fighting npcs, but the overall bandwith getting transfered in the whole map.

Didn't bothered to read that huge wall of text. All I know is that there wasn't another big fight on the map, as far as I know Alacrity wasn't fighting at Ash (Mano already said the lag made Ash unflag, allowing them to rez there). Someone from Ala correct me if I'm wrong please.
Im not spoutting the usual lagsploiting rage here. I dont think you guys do it on purpose, I just think you don't care as long as you are winning.

If by "winning" they mean getting farmed for 60k+ for over 3 hours then I guess so. Had to organize that massive force to get a keep

Empty keep*

I wanna see the videos recorded yesterday of all the PvP-Awesomenomnomity.

I come from starcraft 2 ladder (diamond), this is the first and only mmo I'll ever play. If anything like this were happening on a regular basis their servers would be shutdown and not back online until the problem was resolved, plain and simple. If you're angry at anyone it should be ZoS. If the server can't handle AoE, that's on ZoS. You either throw more hardware at the problem or put cooldowns on AoE(this would suck). The problem with the first solution is $$$, ZoS is too greedy.

frozywozy wrote: »

sKorcheD wrote: »

I come from starcraft 2 ladder (diamond), this is the first and only mmo I'll ever play. If anything like this were happening on a regular basis their servers would be shutdown and not back online until the problem was resolved, plain and simple. If you're angry at anyone it should be ZoS. If the server can't handle AoE, that's on ZoS. You either throw more hardware at the problem or put cooldowns on AoE(this would suck). The problem with the first solution is $$$, ZoS is too greedy.

Before someone really angry roll his face on his keyboard and try to teach you how cool he is and reveal his epic knowledges of programming and all, let me tell you this as polite as possible.

Brian Wheeler (the head of pvp) mentioned that the performance issues happening in Cyrodiil aren't caused by poor hardwares. It is poor code design and it's the fault of the developers who first built the game. At this point, even with patches and updates, it is really hard to make it work. It would require to change the core of the code which would take too much ressources, sadly. But they are not giving up.. as they said

That's really bad news considering how many bugs that get reintroduced due to dirty programming habits.

OK, as someone who is not exactly clear what exactly is the "playstyle" as referred to by Huntler and other AD posters here mentioned that the Red guild that shall not be named does, can one of the 30 or so AD members who was at the Chillrend Arrius Lumbermill around 12:00-12:30 AM on the night of April 2 running around wrecking general havoc please explain to me what exactly differentiated that specific AD raid(s - pretty sure that was more than one guild) from the EP "zerg" of players who shall not be named?

I am not accusing anyone of anything. From my untrained and apparently undiscerning eye, it appears to me that those AD players were doing very similar things as well as running a very similar style as those reds who shall not be named. I honestly don't know. I got a real good and close look at that yellow group for a good 20 minutes. After it became apparent that the dozens of blazing spears I through could not scratch that pain train with all its shields and healing, I stopped attacking from a distance and actually went THROUGH that group at least five or six times mostly because I was curious exactly what was going on in there. I will say those players have excellent target discipline as wherever the crown directed them was more important than the single enemy templar hanging out in their ranks I saw people toward the rear of that group spamming healing springs - I'm not up on the latest narratives as to what exactly the Reds who shall not be named do, but I do recall it was spamming this particular ability in a small area that was one of the main culprits of intentionally lagging out the server. I'd really like to know what it is that the AD guilds do when they group up 20+ members in a tight formation and do their thing is different from when the Red guild that shall not be mentioned group up in 20+ members in a tight formation and do their thing. Because I cannot tell the difference: they stack on crown, dive hard against a concentration of enemies, generally use AoE damage/CC skills, prefer ultimates to be drop by command rather than at individual preference, and make liberal use of healing springs/breathe of life. If I had to pinpoint something, I'd say the Reds in question have a higher ratio of vampires and for a while made more use of coordinated bat-swarm ultimate for a long time before that group became fascinated with Negate magic.

Reading this thread again, it appears that there is the feeling that the Red guild in question brings an inordinate amount of players. I don't know. I can tell you when I play my Red, I follow them, they don't ask me to. I can tell you when I play my yellow, there have been many times I found myself with a veritable yellow horde at Ash or Alessia or Faregyl. Why is a acceptable strategy when a yellow guild tries to backcap a Glademist fight where most of the reds and blues are in combat, but when the Red guild in question does it, is is poor sportsmanship and just a shady attempt to lag the server and steal a scroll? Leaving aside events such as emperor keeps, scroll runs, and such, I've heard enough yellow raid leaders get all excited about a large number of crossed swords on that map and wanting to get in that action. When these lagfests happen, I don't not see the blue or yellow players stop using abilities or taking the high road and walking away, they are doing the same thing as the reds...and such lagfests raise the question why is it that so many yellows and blues are at that given battle in the first place? I find this particular complaint a double standard and one that exaggerates the influence the red guild in question has.

I play a with red and I play a yellow. I've fought with and against the Red zerg that shall not be named. I'd like to say I don't have a dog in the fight. ZoS may have a no naming and shaming policy, but as far as I know there is nothing in that policy that prevents explicit and specific explanations about what observed behavior and tactics are having a detrimental effect on the game's performance. What is it that they are doing that is so bad, you are declaring a campaign "dead" simply because they arrived? If you think the answer is obvious, it isn't to me. Maybe that because I play on all three factions and have observed the behavior of all sides, listened to their Teamspeaks and read their zone chats. Maybe it is because I am skeptical of easy answers, coincidences, or the ever popular "common sense," all of which are far more often wrong than right. Maybe it is because much of what is being attributable to the red guild in question has much to do with factors beyond their control.

Joy_Division wrote: »

OK, as someone who is not exactly clear what exactly is the "playstyle" as referred to by Huntler and other AD posters here mentioned that the Red guild that shall not be named does, can one of the 30 or so AD members who was at the Chillrend Arrius Lumbermill around 12:00-12:30 AM on the night of April 2 running around wrecking general havoc please explain to me what exactly differentiated that specific AD raid(s - pretty sure that was more than one guild) from the EP "zerg" of players who shall not be named?

I am not accusing anyone of anything. From my untrained and apparently undiscerning eye, it appears to me that those AD players were doing very similar things as well as running a very similar style as those reds who shall not be named. I honestly don't know. I got a real good and close look at that yellow group for a good 20 minutes. After it became apparent that the dozens of blazing spears I through could not scratch that pain train with all its shields and healing, I stopped attacking from a distance and actually went THROUGH that group at least five or six times mostly because I was curious exactly what was going on in there. I will say those players have excellent target discipline as wherever the crown directed them was more important than the single enemy templar hanging out in their ranks I saw people toward the rear of that group spamming healing springs - I'm not up on the latest narratives as to what exactly the Reds who shall not be named do, but I do recall it was spamming this particular ability in a small area that was one of the main culprits of intentionally lagging out the server. I'd really like to know what it is that the AD guilds do when they group up 20+ members in a tight formation and do their thing is different from when the Red guild that shall not be mentioned group up in 20+ members in a tight formation and do their thing. Because I cannot tell the difference: they stack on crown, dive hard against a concentration of enemies, generally use AoE damage/CC skills, prefer ultimates to be drop by command rather than at individual preference, and make liberal use of healing springs/breathe of life. If I had to pinpoint something, I'd say the Reds in question have a higher ratio of vampires and for a while made more use of coordinated bat-swarm ultimate for a long time before that group became fascinated with Negate magic.

Reading this thread again, it appears that there is the feeling that the Red guild in question brings an inordinate amount of players. I don't know. I can tell you when I play my Red, I follow them, they don't ask me to. I can tell you when I play my yellow, there have been many times I found myself with a veritable yellow horde at Ash or Alessia or Faregyl. Why is a acceptable strategy when a yellow guild tries to backcap a Glademist fight where most of the reds and blues are in combat, but when the Red guild in question does it, is is poor sportsmanship and just a shady attempt to lag the server and steal a scroll? Leaving aside events such as emperor keeps, scroll runs, and such, I've heard enough yellow raid leaders get all excited about a large number of crossed swords on that map and wanting to get in that action. When these lagfests happen, I don't not see the blue or yellow players stop using abilities or taking the high road and walking away, they are doing the same thing as the reds...and such lagfests raise the question why is it that so many yellows and blues are at that given battle in the first place? I find this particular complaint a double standard and one that exaggerates the influence the red guild in question has.

I play a with red and I play a yellow. I've fought with and against the Red zerg that shall not be named. I'd like to say I don't have a dog in the fight. ZoS may have a no naming and shaming policy, but as far as I know there is nothing in that policy that prevents explicit and specific explanations about what observed behavior and tactics are having a detrimental effect on the game's performance. What is it that they are doing that is so bad, you are declaring a campaign "dead" simply because they arrived? If you think the answer is obvious, it isn't to me. Maybe that because I play on all three factions and have observed the behavior of all sides, listened to their Teamspeaks and read their zone chats. Maybe it is because I am skeptical of easy answers, coincidences, or the ever popular "common sense," all of which are far more often wrong than right. Maybe it is because much of what is being attributable to the red guild in question has much to do with factors beyond their control.

Off topic, this is an insanely long post /clap. On topic idk I don't run with the red group in question, I can tel you that at one point their was two groups there, not by plan though. Later it was just one group of 21ish players melting through DC and EP. IMO I feel at one point EP did intentionally lag the servers (glade mist , opposite side of the keep where the breech was spamming healing springs about 4 months ago), however I don't think they do it now. i think the issue now is purely on ZOS. I can't be mad at a red group for playing tight, and for red pugs following and organized guild. Just my .02. Let's face it, there are shady people on every faction, and shady things have happened on a lot of occasions, ZOS just needs to address the issues as best they can. Hopefully we will all still be around when they get addressed.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

There is no chance that people with slower connections are causing the lag. They would drop and CTD or kick to login the moment a "keep alive" packet was missed.

Your most likely culprit is either a program or knowledgeable tech savvy that is packet flooding. Either via use of a third party, or by clever misuse of the client itself.

Things like this are possible, and other companies have put in safeguards to prevent it, but from the anecdotal evidence, the years worth of build up, and my own observation, specific individuals are using "something" to send too much data to ZOS in a sort of quasi DDOS which is preventing others from accessing at the same time.

Imagine a bridge or a tunnel. Its nice and wide with ten lanes for traffic in each direction (unrealistic but stick with me here)

The "haxploiter" has a way to send 500 busses a second 10 lanes abreast due to some shady program or client defect. Those of us in the midst of that are slowed down or stopped as long as he/she is doing it.

The biggest piece of evidence I have to support my theory is my own data transfer/ping. I run a 30 meg A rated connection (according to speed and line quality tests), my ping in cyrodiil is normally about 80 (can be as low as 60 and as high as 100 during normal gameplay)

When these "events" occur I notice two things right away, my ping jumps into five digit territory (yes seconds worth of actual latency lag), my toon can still move and jump and animate so its not my client rendering, my fps stays the same so its not my video card or system.

When I open task manager=>resource monitor something sticks out like a sore thumb, I am running at nearly full bandwidth to the server, which NEVER happens on a video game, with data rates approaching 30mbps. Additionally my TCP traffic pegs out at 100%. To put it in other words, my client is receiving so much data that its as if I am stream watching five or so videos simultaneously while downloading a huge file too. No MMO has ever had that kind of data transfer requirement. If you understand how much data 30mbps actually is you know what I mean. (30mbps is approximately 1 gigabyte of data every four minutes under optimal conditions, or downloading a full length feature film in 1080p in about six)

Someone is packet flooding, it is completely obvious, either by direct client manipulation, or via use of a third party program designed for that purpose.

...or far worse...a competitor deliberately trying to destroy the game from the inside through a mixture of ZOS naivety and their vast experience of issues.

Or, more likely, crap server code as already admitted by ZOS.

WRX wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

So instead of running around and dominating the map, you now have competition that can kill you.

Personally, I think the lag is caused by the many dead AD and DC bodies that litter the map. There's never any lag when you guys aren't dieing.

You didn't know this because you were on Thorn, but Chill regularly locked during primetime before yesterday's lag fest. There was no one side domination (expect for perhaps the blue zerg night capping occasionally), otherwise the map was constantly flipping, changing, with good fights, and minimal lag.


And its cute pumpkin that you think you're competition and if by competition you mean bring far more people to overwhelm the opposition then i guess you're right

As I said, Chillrend has experimented high latency almost every evening for the past couple weeks. Sometimes up to 3-4k latency and that lag occured when specific guild groups of AD or DC were engaging in large numbers. There was no "minimal lag" during those periods of time as u said. It was as bad as Thornblade.

The latency comes when 3 factions are max pop or close to max pop, then an organized group engage another one and they both spam aoe abilities. Chillrend was max pop several times the past two weeks and this is due to the new gain of players and old players coming back into Cyrodiil with the B2P change of the game.

Yesterday no one was overwhelming the opposition, all 3 factions were max pop.

You are 100% wrong. I would have one lag fight every 3-4 days, and it lasted no more than 2 minutes.

My issue with said guild is they cant not seem to operate on their own. They will take 60 organized players with them everywhere they go, this is what causes the lag. Before any of you try to dispute this, remember I know a lot of players that play with you.

I've enjoyed the outnumbered fight on chillrend, NONE of them lagged.

Anyways I knew what this guild was going to bring, perhaps I will look into going back to Thorn to fight the actually skilled red guild that I have immense respect for.

I wouldnt say he was 100% wrong, last night i was watching your group running your train at Arrius. my latency would go from 128 to almost 300 with just your group farming pugs. I could literally tell when your group would come out of stealth and run through the pugs on latency alone, I didn't even have to look at the rest of the screen. When you guys would run back and stealth my latency would go back to 120. If there was another group doing the same thing the lag would have been as bad as what happened in thorn. You guys also had a large contingent of pugs with you as well.

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

So instead of running around and dominating the map, you now have competition that can kill you.

Personally, I think the lag is caused by the many dead AD and DC bodies that litter the map. There's never any lag when you guys aren't dieing.

You didn't know this because you were on Thorn, but Chill regularly locked during primetime before yesterday's lag fest. There was no one side domination (expect for perhaps the blue zerg night capping occasionally), otherwise the map was constantly flipping, changing, with good fights, and minimal lag.


And its cute pumpkin that you think you're competition and if by competition you mean bring far more people to overwhelm the opposition then i guess you're right

As I said, Chillrend has experimented high latency almost every evening for the past couple weeks. Sometimes up to 3-4k latency and that lag occured when specific guild groups of AD or DC were engaging in large numbers. There was no "minimal lag" during those periods of time as u said. It was as bad as Thornblade.

The latency comes when 3 factions are max pop or close to max pop, then an organized group engage another one and they both spam aoe abilities. Chillrend was max pop several times the past two weeks and this is due to the new gain of players and old players coming back into Cyrodiil with the B2P change of the game.

Yesterday no one was overwhelming the opposition, all 3 factions were max pop.

You are 100% wrong. I would have one lag fight every 3-4 days, and it lasted no more than 2 minutes.

My issue with said guild is they cant not seem to operate on their own. They will take 60 organized players with them everywhere they go, this is what causes the lag. Before any of you try to dispute this, remember I know a lot of players that play with you.

I've enjoyed the outnumbered fight on chillrend, NONE of them lagged.

Anyways I knew what this guild was going to bring, perhaps I will look into going back to Thorn to fight the actually skilled red guild that I have immense respect for.

I wouldnt say he was 100% wrong, last night i was watching your group running your train at Arrius. my latency would go from 128 to almost 300 with just your group farming pugs. I could literally tell when your group would come out of stealth and run through the pugs on latency alone, I didn't even have to look at the rest of the screen. When you guys would run back and stealth my latency would go back to 120. If there was another group doing the same thing the lag would have been as bad as what happened in thorn. You guys also had a large contingent of pugs with you as well.

Ping in the 250-300 isn't anything to crazy, damage was registering and the game still had fine flow. Mine was more in the lower 2's, but everyone varies.

I will give you that there was another group of 12ish there, but they are friends and didnt want to tell them to go away lol..

I had a nice talk with Haulo (Sorry forgot how you spell it) from red about what Ive been meaning from my posts. We left that resource to see if our friends could hold the farm and maybe get the tick to themselves because we don't really like farming like that.

Also later in the night we were fighting about 25ish blues and 40ish reds, sandwiched between them for 30+ minutes. Still very reasonable ping.

Let me preface what I'm going to say with this:

Lag can obviously be caused without intent. Just because you're experiencing lag doesn't automatically mean the other side is lagsploiting. Not everyone in a faction with lagsploiters are guilty of it by association. ZOS obviously deserves criticism for lag, and for the fact that their server instability allows for exploitation.

That said, Lagsploiting does exist, and (GUILD NAME REDACTED) most certainly has done it in the past, and quite possibly still. I will say that I haven't witnessed (GUILD NAME REDACTED) doing the healing springs lagsploit in a little bit. But, without a shadow of a doubt (GUILD NAME REDACTED) has lagsploited in the past. We have experience of seeing it done countless times along with first-hand verification from former and current EPers that it is a tactic (GUILD NAME REDACTED) has used it in the past. Perhaps to their credit, or maybe just because we switched to chill and/or I've been swamped at work and playing less, I haven't seen (GUILD NAME REDACTED) using this lagsploit in some time. But there's nondenying this has happened. If I knew of an AD guild using a similar lagsploit, I would condemn them alongside (GUILD NAME REDACTED).

But we all know what they were doing. We'd have to call it out when we saw (GUILD NAME REDACTED) when sieging keeps with the order of 'kill them before the hide in a corner and lag the game out.' If they really weren't lagsploiting, explain to me the merits of turtling in a corner with healing springs spam? It's a tactic that NEVER works without lag, and has no tactical value outside of lagsploitation.

Queue EP denial and 'tin-foil hat' accusations now....

I lag when playing DC against AD, I lag when playing AD against EP, and I'm sure if I logged into my EP lowbie and went to pester DC I would lag around them too. The only common theme when all this insane lag is occurring is that there is more players participating in a battle than the server can handle.