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Your Experience/Performance on the Mac

  • skyrimb16_ESO6
    Hi jwbell93,

    The bottle neck on that Mac will be the GPU.

    You should start at Medium settings and then turn shadows to low or off for starters.

    Well, we did pay the same price as the PC users did, so we can expect the same graphics quality, correct?
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter

    Well, we did pay the same price as the PC users did, so we can expect the same graphics quality, correct?

    You do know the difference between Direct3D and OpenGL, don't you? Different shader languages, different ways how things are handled in the background. So no, you can't realistically expect the same quality on two very different systems.

    If you meant the same graphics quality settings, the OP was talking about his system having integrated Intel HD graphics. In this case, neither Windows nor OS X can do wonders, and settings would have to be equally low.
  • skyrimb16_ESO6
    So no, you can't realistically expect the same quality on two very different systems.

    I know that OpenGL doesn't offer all the bells and whistles DirectX does, that M$ is pumping a lot of $$ into keeping their market share (re Vulcan), and that DirectX drivers are individually optimised by the vendors for all major games, while Apple only offers general purpose drivers.

    Yet Blizzard for example is able to offer similar graphics quality and performance for their games. I have played thousands of hours of game time in WoW, D3 and SC2 and can't remember any crash at all. The fact of the matter is, Blizzard is willing to invest more into their Mac ports than Zenimax and that's why Blizzard's Mac ports are fine, and this one sucks.

    So yes, I can expect (nearly) the same quality on OS X and Windows.
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Well, ever since patch 6.0.2 last year and the revamps of the rendering engines that went with it, Blizzard hasn't and still isn't able to provide a viable AA method for their WoW Mac client. Whereas the Windows client now offers four different AA methods with a wide range of sampling size choices, plus a combination of two, the Mac client is left with two flavors of FXAA (one a strong, the other a slightly weaker fullscreen blur), and SSAA 2x, which renders the game at double resolution and then downsamples it (being absolute anathema to FPS). So, not all things are equal on the quality front, even at Blizz.

    Aside from this, Blizzard has not one, but two decades of experience in building games for the Mac (including two OSs and two processor architectures). ZOS hasn't been around that long. And while Blizzard surely has a longstanding company culture of training and honing their own OS X developers, ZOS has to hire in a very small, very specialized market. Furthermore, instead of deciding to grab and further develop the TES toolchain of their mother Bethesda, which isn't capable of building for OS X at all, they went with something completely new, written from scratch, which does.

    In the light of all this, I don't expect exactly equal quality on all platforms, which I take as the realistic view. I have the greatest respect for ZOS to decide to support the Mac from the get-go, which still can't be taken for granted for new games, even in times of ever growing numbers.
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Hi Everyone

    The next patch should contain a number of memory reducing tweaks for the Mac Client.

    Please report if it improves PVP.






    Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on April 3, 2015 6:17PM
    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • skyrimb16_ESO6
    FXAA... ZOS hasn't been around that long

    Your comparison is just ridiculous, I'm not talking about some anti-aliasing details, I'm talking about the game crashing after 10 minutes if I set the details to the same level I could set them to on Windows, on the same hardware.

    On Steam there are hundreds of games that deliver equal quality on both platforms. Therefore I can expect this from other developers as well. And you should too, because otherwise others will become encourage to do the same. With that stance, you'll encourage them to treat us a as 2nd class customers.

    So you can come up with excuses all day long, but the fact of the matter is, Zenimax hasn't delivered on par quality for the Mac platform since the game launched a year ago. If they lack experience in OS X development, fine, then either only charge half the price for the OS X version, or delay OS X release of it until it's playable.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Misinformation & Conspiracy Theories]
    Edited by ZOS_MichelleA on April 4, 2015 3:06PM
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    I don't know what you're talking about. I frequently play ESO for hours on high quality settings without a single crash. But of course you may dismiss this anecdotal evidence, just like you summarily dismissed the tons of improvements that happend since beta.
  • skyrimb16_ESO6
    I'll quote some comments for you from this thread because apparently you weren't reading them:
    GreySix wrote: »
    After the latest update, the client crashed three times in 45 minutes.
    i was playing on ultra settings with AA on with gtx 780 M 4GB video ram and it crashed every 5- 10 mins during pvp
    Gaulomatic wrote: »
    PLEASE - make it run more smooth on Mac OS X. Even streaming the game from the Windows to the OS X box is performing better than native OS X.
    I have been playing on the lowest graphics possible since launch because if I don't I will crash almost anytime I get close to a fight in AvA.

    Those are massive problems, and we're not in the beta, we're 1 year after launch.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
    Edited by ZOS_MichelleA on April 4, 2015 3:04PM
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    I'm neither, but thank you very much for your concern. It's obvious that, while I'm focusing on the undeniably positive aspects and improvements (and I've been with the Mac client ever since its first inception), you are not inclined to follow. Duely noticed.

    It is quite unnecessary, however, to resort to hyperbole and personal attacks in order to try to get your opinion across. Things are not as bad as you would like them to see. :smiley:
  • j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO
    I run a Hackintosh with a nVidia 760, and everything set to ultra. I have a crashed maybe twice in the past 2 weeks. I understand that 50FPS is unacceptably slow to some players, but it is "okay" for me.
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    I run a Hackintosh with a nVidia 760, and everything set to ultra. I have a crashed maybe twice in the past 2 weeks. I understand that 50FPS is unacceptably slow to some players, but it is "okay" for me.
    I have had a very smooth experience, too, ever since 2.0.4 hit live. No crashes at all, frame rates are well over 50 FPS most of the time at default high quality settings, even with AA and VSYNC enabled, Shadows on Medium (down from default High), Water Reflection on Low (up from default Off), Ambient Occlusion set to On (from default Off). I'm running the 2013 27" iMac's GeForce GTX 780M at 2560x1440, so getting 50+ FPS seems like a very decent performance to me. The slight delay in texture loading is still visible very rarely after entering some buildings, though.

    All in all, I'm very happy with the turn of events. Kudos to Chris and the team. :smiley:
  • Gorak
    Gorak
    ✭✭✭
    chris.dillman

    Also do not update this iMac to 10.10…
    It has access to even less RAM and will make AVA worse.

    I wish I had seen this prior to updating my OS to Yosemite. The game was running fairly well until the update on April 13/15, and now it freezes completely upon log in. I can't even stay on long enough to open the settings and turn them down. Prior to yesterday, I was able to run the game quite satisfactorily (about 40-50 fps) with setting on medium. I have a late 2012 iMac:

    Processor: 2.9 GHz Intel Core i5
    Memory: 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 512 MB

    How will ZOS be addressing this issue for Mac users? I am a subscriber, but will have to end my subscription if I cannot play the game. I really enjoy the game and don't want to stop playing :(

    I want a raven avatar, please.
    PC NA; DC ftw
  • ZOS_MollyH
    Hi @epicenvoyub17_ESO !

    Just for some clarification, did you just update your OS, or are you referring to the game patch itself? If you have an open ticket with customer support, can we please have the ticket number?

    Whenever there are updates to both the game and for an OS, it can take a little bit of time to settle out the changes and ensure that they run smoothly together with your system. Thank you for your patience!
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Gorak
    Gorak
    ✭✭✭
    ZOS_MollyH wrote: »
    Hi @epicenvoyub17_ESO !

    Just for some clarification, did you just update your OS, or are you referring to the game patch itself? If you have an open ticket with customer support, can we please have the ticket number?

    Whenever there are updates to both the game and for an OS, it can take a little bit of time to settle out the changes and ensure that they run smoothly together with your system. Thank you for your patience!

    I updated my OS a few days ago, but the problems really kicked into high gear as soon as I did the game patch yesterday. So far today, I have been able to load the game, but have not been able to play for more than a few minutes at a time at best, mere seconds at worst. This issue isn't new for me as it has been there for a while: it got considerably worse with "Tamriel Unlimited", and each subsequent patch.

    I know that things need to "settle out" when updates occur to both system and game, and I will wait a bit to see how it goes, but currently this is unplayable. As a subscriber, I had hoped for better playability, not worse.
    I want a raven avatar, please.
    PC NA; DC ftw
  • Seedier
    Seedier
    ✭✭
    Sadly last patch has really been several steps in the wrong direction... although up to the last patch performance (both fps-wise and crash-wise) had been highly satisfactory, this patch has indeed rendered it unplayable for me too sadly. Would be nice to see a hotfix to roll it back to a previous version if at all possible.
  • Suntzu1414
    The last patch significantly effected my performance, as well.
    Please review and revise.

    Today, I could play 15 min in pvp.
    Then, it crashed 4 times...system reboot.

    Relog. my entire party is dead..lol
    Then, play...15 min. Crash.


    Maybe, the crashing is the real game...
    ST

    DC - NB VR15 - Khajit - DW / S+B / Bow
    DC - NB VR 15 - Wood Elf - S+B / Resto
    DC - TP VR 15 - Brenton - Resto / Dual Wield
    DC - SC VR 12 - High Elf - Desto / Dual Wield
    EP - TP VR 5 - Nord - 2hd / 2hd
    EP - DK 20 - Imperial - S+B / Desto / Bow
  • bugmom
    bugmom
    ✭✭✭
    Thought it was fixed but I crashed several times last night as well. Twice involving transitus ( is that problem back?) and once exiting the game.
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Suntzu1414 wrote: »
    The last patch significantly effected my performance, as well.
    Please review and revise.

    Today, I could play 15 min in pvp.
    Then, it crashed 4 times...system reboot.

    Relog. my entire party is dead..lol
    Then, play...15 min. Crash.


    Maybe, the crashing is the real game...
    ST

    Suntzu1414;1742792

    We rolled back an optimization on thursday last week.

    You should be seeing PVP up times of around 2 hours or more.

    Now theres always a chance you are running into a general bug of some kind not related to low memory etc.


    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • Seedier
    Seedier
    ✭✭
    indeed, the hotfix fixed the issue...
  • j.frank.nicholsb14_ESO
    Yes, OSX is running smoothly again - thank you. I am running latest OSX as well.
  • JNight
    JNight
    I was about to finally update my mac to yosemite until i got into ESO and noticed these endless threads everywhere about issues between them. Wondering if it's safe to update now or wait until the 64 bit client is out?
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    JNight wrote: »
    I was about to finally update my mac to yosemite until i got into ESO and noticed these endless threads everywhere about issues between them. Wondering if it's safe to update now or wait until the 64 bit client is out?
    A 64-bit game client for any platform hasn't even been officially announced yet. There's no ETA whatsoever, so please don't hold your breath waiting for it. :wink:

    Go ahead and update to Yosemite (be sure to make a backup first, so you can rollback in the event of something going awry). It's on version 10.10.3 by now, and 10.10.4 is in the works. So far, my client has been rock stable in version 2.0.7.
  • henrycupcakerwb17_ESO
    Suntzu1414 wrote: »
    The last patch significantly effected my performance, as well.
    Please review and revise.

    Today, I could play 15 min in pvp.
    Then, it crashed 4 times...system reboot.

    Relog. my entire party is dead..lol
    Then, play...15 min. Crash.


    Maybe, the crashing is the real game...
    ST

    :D :D :D :D :D i was DYING for this game 's release back then when i had SO much fun playing AVA in the beta phrase of ESO ( on windows ) , the large scale combat/ the movement dynamic engagement of different battalion / epic scene of siege weapons flying over your head while sieging the gate, its a dream came true <3

    who'd have known that on the mac client could be such a hellish experience :D

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Advertising]
    Edited by henrycupcakerwb17_ESO on May 27, 2015 10:40AM
  • JNight
    JNight
    Yeah, i've been crashing a lot more lately since the last patch. before, i could play for 4+ hours without a single crash but now the game is crashing left and right randomly. from every few minutes, up to an hour.
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