Regarding PVP (in Blackwater Blade):

1. Most players don't have access to Siege Shield (or if they do, the most basic form)
2. Armor Sets that prevent Siege Damage (Heartland) - only start at VR1


You many need to revisit BWB (regarding your siege damage implementation).


Kill Well
ST

Orchish wrote: »

Khyras wrote: »

Get this through your thick skulls:
When i go to PvP, getting killed by massive NPC or siege weapon damage or anything else except for a player using his skills is completely unacceptable.Getting one shotted by ranged aoe damage siege weapon doing 26k damage is not PvP,its target practice.Remove the cheapshotting mechanics from PvP,its not fun, its frustrating and it only makes me want to quit PvP.
First it was vet rank NPCs,now its replaced by siege weapons, you people simply refuse to learn.Its is possible for a smaller group to defeat larger group or a zerg without god damn siege weapons, i have seen it many times,by maneuvering,coordinating and using group fight tactics not idiotic,mindless siege weapon spam.Its not PvP anymore, its siege weapons war sim.

Nope. You get this through your head. Before now siege was utterly patheti,. Players just standing completely still every time siege hit them knowing full well they were not in danger. Now you can actually start taking notice of those shiny red circles that you always ignore and perhaps start using your roll dodge to avoid said circles?

Clearly your madness has taken over because i see plenty of PvP as well as awesome sieges. Not to mention for the first time in months we can actually break up the mindless zergs running around and lagging out the server on a daily basis.

Can't agree more.

I laugh at most of the people who are saying "L2P", because most of them were the ones complaining about DK scales and who didn't want to play something else than FOTM lethal arrow. But that's off topic.

Siege damage needed a buff, now it needs adjusting. First of all it should be plain reduced on the lowbie campaign. You can't expect new players to all have purge slotted, since it requires having a certain pvp rank to begin with. It's almost impossible to survive a fire treb hit as a nonvet nonhealer.

As a vamp, i still find fire siege damage a bit disturbing on my v14 main (38k damage from a single ballista?). And sometimes, even with the fastest reaction time in the world you CANNOT get out of the red circle.
Example : you are in a keep tower, and defenders are shooting a ballista from the inner wall. The distance for the bolt to hit is so short that an instant roll dodge isnt fast enough to get you out of there. It's just insta death.

But fine whatever, i should be 1000 times more careful in keep battles, ok, but in open field??? The point of Cyrodil being so vast is so we can enjoy different types of gameplay. If you want to click and point and oneshot your enemies and be proud of it, go do some keep sieges, but why do people who want some decent pvp away from the keeps have to suffer this ridiculous change?

As it was said before, you are having a nice 2v2 and suddenly a random guy spawns a fire ballista and puts an end to the fun.

I think they should implement a system where placing siege away from keeps or ressources takes longer and is less effective or something. Maybe increase the reload time on siege if no ressource is nearby.

And so many people are being defensive about this, as if they finally can stop trying to improve their builds and they can kill any skilled player with a single click. Geez admit that it is too strong

Wow. The QQ is unreal here. Siege is finally where it should have been all along. Also please stop with this nonsense about the game being siege vs siege because thats simply not true. I watched EP strategically flank Dc siege last night and wiped them, I watched DC do the same to them on the other side of the milegate. This game now feels like a war, last night was the 1st time in forever i didn't have huge lag spikes with the server being poplocked at prime time. ZOS has finally got it right and siege should be left alone, Zone chat was all i needed to see the last few days, the majority of folks even in various TS i was in absolutely loved the siege changes, those whining about it are definitively not the majority of players.

the only people dieing to siege and QQ are:

1. Those that are vamps(yup fire hurts, get used to it)
2. Those who have very little to no gear or attribute points in HP
3. Those that won't run of the Alliance War skill line skills.

The Alliance War skill line is actually useful now, Siege Shield, Rapid Maneuvers, Purge are all very very useful now as they should be.

Rapid Maneuvers will allow you to get out of any red circle, no excuses(also removes roots and snares). Purge will remove the dots and in most cases prevent you from being 1 shotted. Siege Shield cuts the damage down big time. Siege isn't OP, its finally useful, the problem is folks are not using the tools and skills available to them, not investing anything into health, and then come on here and QQ they got killed.

ZOS this is the 1st time in 8 months there was no major lag ping spikes last night even at prime time, PVP was no longer giant zergs of blobs running around. this is the best change you have made to PVP, heck perhaps even the game, since launch. Brian Wheeler and the PVP team has outdone themselves, and finally fixed what me and others have been saying about siege for a long time.

Remember guys, they already toned down oil before they put this out, i think this has been in the pipeline for awhile, i think its been tested internally for quite awhile, I think they have been watching for quite awhile, its obvious what Cyrodiil was prior to this siege change is not what ZOS envisioned the Alliance War to be which prior to this was nothing more then a mindless numbers game or open zone gladiator arena. We now get real open world warfare, choke points, gates, etc keeps and sieges feel epic, the explosions all around, knowing that artillery can easily kill you, now tactics and siege/counter-siege warfare is important. Defending a keep against superior numbers is now possible.

Wow! this feels as close to "The Great War" as you could possibly get in TES universe!

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War

This siege change makes it truly feel like "3 Banner's War" Thanks ZOS for making this game more about strategy.

I like being able to kill people stacking on the flags with a stone treb from the outside walls. Came in handy during last night's siege on chal. It was kind of like "I hear you like meteor showers".

Etaniel wrote: »

Fine, you want realism? than add friendly fire, because a massive ball of fire will kill you even if an ally shot it.

Agreed!

c0rp wrote: »

Cyrodiil is AvAvA. Its not a Colosseum. I don't care if your "1v3" open field battle got "ruined" because you ate a flaming fireball to the face and got killed. Seems a lot of the QQ comes from these people.

I love a good "skill only" battle. But this is true. Nobody is going to respect the rules of a 3v3 if they see you fighting in a field.

Khyras wrote: »

Aminals wrote: »

It's a realistic game, being smashed on by a massive ball of fire will kill you. There's really no excuse for not packing your own heat too, you can fire back with the same results.

NukeAllTheThings wrote: »

Higher siege damage didn't bother the group I was running with. Then again we were using different skills and tactics in the game instead of raging on the forums.

Excuse me, but i would like to use skills that i WANT to use in PvP, not dance like a monkey to whatever tune they decided to play THIS month.

Excuse me, I would like my ambush skill to one shot any player who comes in my way while tanking 3 fire trebs, not let TESO decide how they want me to play THIS month.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Strategy is not the problem here their is an easy counter to seige, purge and more likely seige shields both are far to expensive for a stamina build to use counter siege use to be my thing but now one shield = no magic so no heal with red circles everywhere not getting hit was not an option so I used the shield and could use no other magic at all

One person should be aiming and firing the siege weapon while another person repairs the siege and casts wards and heals. Why is this such a bad thing? Nobody's siege has more range than another which means the side that is playing cooperatively will ultimately win, all other things being equal. This is a positive change that will now require more varied builds and coordination.

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I understand what you are saying to a point, but realistic siege could not be carried nor operated by a single person in warfare. One guy did not have five in his pocket. So, realism is out the window. Not only that, but the fire times are dramatically longer in real life as well, 15 minutes reload was accomplished only by well trained teams of men.

Ehh... You can't have it all. The changes seem geared towards Cyrodiil feeling like a medieval war zone. For instance removing forward camps, as teleporting an army across a map is more powerful than any incantation, and as a result each faction has to actually earn their way to their enemies home keeps. Gives the game more of a realistic depth. Same with siege actually causing an impact, it adds to combat in a way which feels right. Of course you don't need three guys to haul and man one ballista, and when you die you automatically respawn, that's not wholly realistic but it's fun. You get what I'm saying, take the good leave the bad.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Siege shield is fine during sieging but you cant afford to cast it during fights when enemies are sieging you.

I agree with the decision to increase siege damage to players but 50% is just too much. Such a big change should be tested before coming to the live server. I think the percentage has to be decreased to 25-35% and it should be fine. Also it looks like siege damage can crit, this should be removed imo.

That's why you get out of the way. It takes a long time to reload and fire the damn things, not to mention if you have to re-aim it. We are so much more maneuverable than a siege engine.

Aminals wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I understand what you are saying to a point, but realistic siege could not be carried nor operated by a single person in warfare. One guy did not have five in his pocket. So, realism is out the window. Not only that, but the fire times are dramatically longer in real life as well, 15 minutes reload was accomplished only by well trained teams of men.

Ehh... You can't have it all. The changes seem geared towards Cyrodiil feeling like a medieval war zone. For instance removing forward camps, as teleporting an army across a map is more powerful than any incantation, and as a result each faction has to actually earn their way to their enemies home keeps. Gives the game more of a realistic depth. Same with siege actually causing an impact, it adds to combat in a way which feels right. Of course you don't need three guys to haul and man one ballista, and when you die you automatically respawn, that's not wholly realistic but it's fun. You get what I'm saying, take the good leave the bad.

Agreed. I like the new damage, though I do believe it would benefit all if it were dialed a bit down. No player should ever be single shotted, by anything. Not a build, not environment and not an item. In every situation you should have a chance to at least pull off one set.

That being said, maybe cap a % of total health any siege were capable of. That way it would be unique to each health bank and not one shot so many. I had a little fun knocking down four or so at a time in groups, but as I single highhandedly took several resources the next day, I saw this becoming less fun over time. I do value the feeling of beating an actual person with combos or speed just a bit more and would like to see that encouraged a bit with of course protecting the zerg busting ability of siege.

Siege is the new ultimate in this game. Make sure quickslot is your new best friend because you will need it more than ever.

Also, message to ZOS, fix your siege it sucks bad.

Its a bad call. Lets face it we are not about realism otherwise it would be friendly fire and placing fire balistas inside a building would be just rediculous. It would be like introducing foot soldiers in World of Tanks. A dude with a freakin knife trying to kill a guy in a tank. Yea it has turned Cyrodiil into a siege fest instead. You know something is overpowered when everyone starts using it like free candy. The damge is realistic but the way everyone just throws down siege everywhere on the map is not. Otherwise we would all be playing flight simulator pvp games instead of FPS. The FPS games are more popular because we want to experience that hands on fighting instead of riding in a jet shooting rockets all day.

Tintinabula wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

why can't people just move....

do you know how many times I roll only to land with one foot in another red circle? Of course you realize with siege being the FOTM now not only am I dodging the enemies red circles but my own teamates as well?

Sure ,siege is great for sitting atop a wall and aiming for the breach..I get plenty of kills that way..<<yawns>>..but for actual PvP?..charging an enemy only to realize they have a friend behind a tree(40 - 50 meters away I might add) with a ballista just waiting to aim it at me?.. Its dumbed down PvP and created a cheap one trick pony of a playstyle.

i dont know why you keep on encountering all these balistae in open fields behind enemies; I don't:/ and when I do I just move.