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Siege Damage Intended to hit for 24k?
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Gravord✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is
Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.1 -
Gravord✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Typical pattern when things change:
1: A lot of whining from people forced to change their tactics.
2: More whining from people who have trouble changing their tactics.
3: People changing their tactics.
4: Everything settles down.
Patch 2.0 - probably best patch game get. Except few broken things (radiant scaling from 50%, nirn bug, etc) that was mostly already fixed that patch put game on whole new level of good and interesting gameplay with working stamina builds, working melee setups, real need of tanks in pvp and few other positive changes. Ruining that by degrading game into siege spam is mistake and fighting to keep game in better state is not anything you could call "whining". Only true concern about increasing pvp quality in ESO to make it game worth play for long time.2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is people are standing in siege weapons as though they are still like this:
Just learn to move out of the way folks.:trollin:2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭^ They are being used so much that you move out of one right into another. Just wait until a team gets really coordinated with it and blankets and entire field firing all at the same time.
I do like the threat and the different sort of tactics it is bringing; but it could just use about 15% less damage all around.Edited by technohic on March 26, 2015 6:06PM0 -
accina✭If they wan't light and heavy wearers to take same siege damage, why not just follow the same logic and remove vamp's fire vulnearability against of siege weapons ...or at least nerf it a bit. Siege fire dmg was already enough for vamps to avoid it.1
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Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.Edited by Glurin on March 26, 2015 6:44PM"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭even the bridge is so *** funny now. just wow. Kris @Lava_Croft come with me mateeee let's siege the world
Just want to say since this image has been referenced a lot, and something completely off subject on why, with the siege and all and just focus on the bridge.
As a DC player; I kind of am disappointed I don't get to fight on a big bridge like this very often. Maybe its just a weird coincidence that I just haven't gone anywhere in or near DC territory where one exists?
Also; is there a tunnel somewhere in DC I just am not aware of?0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Olysja's screenshot still shows most people are not operating siege equipment. There's definitely room for improvement!2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »@Olysja's screenshot still shows most people are not operating siege equipment. There's definitely room for improvement!
LOL Most viewable have staves. Probably healing and purging.0 -
Gravord✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?1 -
Gravord✭✭✭✭✭even the bridge is so *** funny now. just wow. Kris @Lava_Croft come with me mateeee let's siege the world
Just want to say since this image has been referenced a lot, and something completely off subject on why, with the siege and all and just focus on the bridge.
As a DC player; I kind of am disappointed I don't get to fight on a big bridge like this very often. Maybe its just a weird coincidence that I just haven't gone anywhere in or near DC territory where one exists?
Also; is there a tunnel somewhere in DC I just am not aware of?
Bleaker - Chalman gate? But remember you can go around
1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭even the bridge is so *** funny now. just wow. Kris @Lava_Croft come with me mateeee let's siege the world
Just want to say since this image has been referenced a lot, and something completely off subject on why, with the siege and all and just focus on the bridge.
As a DC player; I kind of am disappointed I don't get to fight on a big bridge like this very often. Maybe its just a weird coincidence that I just haven't gone anywhere in or near DC territory where one exists?
Also; is there a tunnel somewhere in DC I just am not aware of?
Bleaker - Chalman gate? But remember you can go around
Oh, does the bridge just act as a gate? I suppose functionally it does I guess. Still doesn't seem as exciting for some reason.Edited by technohic on March 26, 2015 7:01PM0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
The milegates are 'stronger' choke points than the bridges, since while the water beneath the bridges is infested with deadly slaughterfish, you will still have very little trouble crossing it.even the bridge is so *** funny now. just wow. Kris @Lava_Croft come with me mateeee let's siege the world
Just want to say since this image has been referenced a lot, and something completely off subject on why, with the siege and all and just focus on the bridge.
As a DC player; I kind of am disappointed I don't get to fight on a big bridge like this very often. Maybe its just a weird coincidence that I just haven't gone anywhere in or near DC territory where one exists?
Also; is there a tunnel somewhere in DC I just am not aware of?
Bleaker - Chalman gate? But remember you can go around
Oh, does the bridge just act as a gate? I suppose functionally it does I guess.
Edited by Lava_Croft on March 26, 2015 7:02PM0 -
Observant✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?
Have you considered going over them and dropping down at a flank instead of through the actual gate?Vehemence0 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭I love the rage, one button no skill? As in on button impulse and one button bats and one button flame lash or one button talons. Many pvp players are one button monsters. Now it’s one button wrecking blow and one button meteors. It’s not going to be nerfed it did what they wanted us to do, we are spreading out. I love it. I would make the DOTS click slower and would decrease the price of soul gems a little and make purge and siege shield cheaper to cast but keep the damage as is. It has single handedly reduced the bat population significantly. They carry rabies you know.
Next time you one button talons someone for 35k I'll buy you a new house in the city of your choice.2 -
Olysja✭✭✭ye sorry @technohic i've to screen also milegate haha^^ saw some imba sieging there aswell XDD
@Lava_Croft ye you saw the *** noobs on the right side? in stealth afk instead of sieging? ps: do you like my new pocahontas outfit?
Are you a perfect russian woman? add me-> @Olysja (✿☯‿☯✿)
(EU)(EP) Olysja / Hortensius Capitolinus
(EU)(DC) My Heart for Cuties
(EU)(AD) City light painted girl1 -
Durandal✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?
/facepalm
The bridge in the screenshot is not a scroll gate. All a coordinated group needs to do is:- Mount up
- Ride south to the river crossing
- Ride north back to the bridge
- Flank the enemy from behind
The above is more interesting game play then relentlessly ramming into a defended position.
And yes, scroll gates should be difficult to get through. Diversionary tactics are required for scroll captures. Pulling off defenders from the scroll defense is needed in those situations. While the enemy is defending their scroll gate there is a lot of unguarded territory on the map.
These siege changes are great as they make it possible to defend choke points. There are a myriad of counters though and that is where the fun lies. If you are not effective slamming into a position defended by siege... Don't do it. Go somewhere else. Be effective on the map. There are a lot of things to take in cyrodiil.Edited by Durandal on March 26, 2015 7:13PMDurandal
Chrysamere Pact2 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭There will always be a lot of people more interested in AP and titles than PvP and you get that a lot faster sitting on siege than PvPing.0
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Stamina scrub!ye sorry @technohic i've to screen also milegate haha^^ saw some imba sieging there aswell XDD
@Lava_Croft ye you saw the *** noobs on the right side? in stealth afk instead of sieging? ps: do you like my new pocahontas outfit?
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Phoenix99✭✭✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
It's rather obvious that you have no MMO experience.trimsic_ESO wrote: »trimsic_ESO wrote: »if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
What exactly is skillful about point and click siege? Full reliance on items (isn't that what you are with siege?)? Are you that blind?
I could show a video of a guy spamming 1 skill all day and it would still likely show more skill. You want to know why (note this is a dumbed down example to show how ludicrous the comparison is yet still is a better example of skill)? Because the player spamming that 1 skill would have put a lot of thought, effort, and planning into making that build work. Why again you ask? Because that player needed to go out and find/couple the right gear sets together to optimize the build for the sole purpose of that ability (whatever it is). Not only did that player spend time on a gear set to optimize that build, he/she also put together the other skills on the bar to optimize it. Even if only 1 ability is being spammed, that player is running other abilities to support it passively. Perhaps there are escapes on the bar, perhaps there are abilities with passive bonuses, etc. In addition, that player needs to then succeed in using this ability around other enemies (possibly coordinating with teammates).
As I said before this is the simplest, dumbest example I can give of a player using skills to be "skillful" and its still better than siege spam. Because with siege you remove entirely half of what makes an MMO, an MMO. Gear/build customization.
Wise words, shame non of the siege dmg defenders will understand that.
What I understand is that Huntler tries to make people realize that his own mentality of what should be a mmorpg game is in reality the mentality of a battleground environment. Cyrodiil is large scale open world pvp with keeps to assault. Just like Wintergrasp in Wow, you have siege engines to assist players. And they do a *** of damage, as intended.
Key word you used "assist players", not replace any other form of combat as its with such absurd dmg. ESO is not Battlefield 4, one shotting should not happen in mmo no matter what hits you, its fps domain. And Huntler idea of mmo is very accurate by any standards.
As Agrippa and other great members of this community pointed out several times, if you get one-shotted by a siege projectile, you are a glass cannon type of character and it's time for you to spec and gear accordingly to face the thruth. nuff said
In a well designed game, there is a room for:
- tanks
- healers
- and glass canon archetypes
Well, this is even the basis of PVP.
and there still is place for glass canons, just dont get hit by the siege weapon.... i mean, unless you are building a melee glass canon (which is then stupid) then you should have zero problem with kiting siege, I can do it as a melee/ranged hybrid, so can you (today got 1 hit killed by treb and only beca\use i thought I can stay 1 more second to shoot my stuff).
Sorry, but did you play an MMO before?
Just asking, because you are pretending that a melee character can't be a glass canon. We're playing in a team, with one or more healers, you know?
But yes, you are right: in ESO it's just not possible to do that, and it's one one numerous issues of this game: being too limited in the role and build, and forcing people to have all the same stuff and template.
melee glass canon works, just not during the sieges.... I mean, you still can gank people with it, or stealth to the back and kill siege crews in open field combat or even during the counter attack when besieged... just do not expect to use it near the walls when the enemy is defending the keep, it is rather obvious, no?
It's rather obvious that you have no PvP experience, especially high level one and competitive one0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?
Should there be? I mean it is basically the last line of defense.
Funny you should mention it though. Yesterday EP managed to open one of the AD gates. AD naturally put down a crapton of siege and started bombarding the gate. You know what happened? EP got slaughtered and ragequit.
Oh, wait, that's not what happened at all. EP broke through, destroyed the siege and ran off with the scroll."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Gravord✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?
Should there be? I mean it is basically the last line of defense.
Funny you should mention it though. Yesterday EP managed to open one of the AD gates. AD naturally put down a crapton of siege and started bombarding the gate. You know what happened? EP got slaughtered and ragequit.
Oh, wait, that's not what happened at all. EP broke through, destroyed the siege and ran off with the scroll.
Then you had morons on defence. No way to break scroll gate with any semi decent players defending it.
1 -
Observant✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?
Should there be? I mean it is basically the last line of defense.
Funny you should mention it though. Yesterday EP managed to open one of the AD gates. AD naturally put down a crapton of siege and started bombarding the gate. You know what happened? EP got slaughtered and ragequit.
Oh, wait, that's not what happened at all. EP broke through, destroyed the siege and ran off with the scroll.
Then you had morons on defence. No way to break scroll gate with any semi decent players defending it.
False.
0/1Vehemence0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
I'm a '0 skills nab'.Lava_Croft wrote: »The changes to siege damage are simply awesome and have greatly improved the overall PvP experience.
Not sure if troll or 0 skills nab.
I trust your words so gave you "agree" on post
Skill in a MMO is not really spamming buttons or skills, although there is a minor impact of it (obviously correct timings, reactions, etc. are important). Skill gets involved with 2 primary components: Planning and During. The planning phase is half of what makes a MMO and corresponds to skill and it happens days, weeks, etc. before you do any fight. With siege, planning is entirely removed. The "During" phase when it comes to skill is spatial awareness such as not standing in red, blocking certain attacks, bashing others, roll dodging when needing to, correctly timing attacks/combos, etc.if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...
Now count all of those above items that I believe (and hopefully you do too) impact skill, and tell me.... how many are involved with siege? How many are involved with the other option (aka fighting).
There are two kinds of planning involved in a fight, its the planning of your build/equipment for the skirmishes and there's the greater battle plan involving positioning, siege and maybe multiple coordinated strike teams.
During the fight you need spatial awareness such as not standing in red, roll dodging when needing to, and also quick thinking about where to move the fight, and to know where you weak spots/blind spots are in any given scenario. This applies to the whole fight, siege or no siege. Actually hard hitting siege increases the need for awareness and the ability to change tactics quickly both alone and as a group imo.
So your rethorical question does not convince me that siege requires no skill in planning or duration of a fight, on the contrary it adds another dimension of planning and even more need of sitational awareness during a fight.
I always look around me to see if seige is getting deployed - because then I know where my next target is Siege make strategically good positions in the terrain/battlefield more important. I like that!
But siege should maybe take longer to deploy, it should allways be a high risk operation to set up.
What you say is partially true. Its make game more demanding for team facing sieges. But what you conviniently skip is that team with sieges skill requirements are much lower that the skills needed to counter idiotic siege dmg. And thats the problem. Minimal risk, 0 effort in char/gear/team build is deadly and require lot effort to counter that. Now put it in hand of any semi decent team, with few balistas, solid def tanks spamming roots/snares and you have mass murder done way too easy.
And i partly agree with that as well. Allthough im sure good attacking teams will figure out a counter to the defending scenario you just outlined Bottom line I still think its a better game then before, that's where we differ i guess.
What do you think of an increased deployment time? Maybe even an increased deployment time outside of keeps to make siege less viable in group vs group fights?
If an enemy has fortified a position in advance it SHOULD be much harder to take i think, but to be able to fortify you position with siege in a few seconds doesnt feel quite right.
Increase deployment would be some kind of solution but that wouldnt solve issue with 20 balistas spam on keep def or for example choke points like gates on way to scrolls. Theres no way around there, you have to pass one little gate, with oils on top, caltrops inside gate and 20 balistas aiming and devastating anyone entering. In this scenario it doesnt make "harder to attack", it make it impossible to break if defenders know what they doing. And deployment time wont help with that either as after loosing keeps theres still plenty time to fortify gates. Dmg reduction is necessary.
If you are right and this becomes the new meta, there will most likely be a dmg nerf - but then i really hope they don't go too far making it useless again. Never had so much fun in Cyrodill as these last few days, and i don't even use siege apart from the occasional wall-hitting myself - I just love the thrill of the increased danger and tactical responses necessary.
Sure it make game bit more interesting, but it vanish fast if 90% enemies dont try fight you with their character but by siege only. Look on Olysja screen, siege wars only. Too high dmg give lazy players chance to be dangerous without effort, obviously they will go only for that and never even try improve their gameplay, build, gear and so on. As somebody said few posts ago, if theres fight 3vs3 and one or even both sides try setup balista instead fight normal way, its clear sign it went way too far.
90% huh. Sorry, not seeing it. Look at the screenshot of the bridge? The one with about twenty or thirty people on each side fighting over that narrow choke point with places specifically designed to put boiling oil and ballistae on it? This is your proof that people don't fight anymore and just throw rocks at each other? Please. Did it ever occur to you that they could maybe, I don't know, go around?
If there's a 3v3 fight on the open field and somebody tries to set up a siege engine, that person is a moron. If the people who don't set up siege engines stand still and let him hit them with it instead of charging at him, or even just moving to the side, then those people are morons. Siege is slow. Really, really slow. And you are defenseless while operating it. But I'll even throw you a bone and say this took place at a keep. Those three not defending the keep are going to have an easy time avoiding the siege fire, and if they don't then they make morons look like geniuses.
Did it occur to you there no fkin way around on scroll gates?
Should there be? I mean it is basically the last line of defense.
Funny you should mention it though. Yesterday EP managed to open one of the AD gates. AD naturally put down a crapton of siege and started bombarding the gate. You know what happened? EP got slaughtered and ragequit.
Oh, wait, that's not what happened at all. EP broke through, destroyed the siege and ran off with the scroll.
Then you had morons on defence. No way to break scroll gate with any semi decent players defending it.
Ah, but according to you, it shouldn't matter. Just pound the gate with siege and nobody will ever be able to get through. That scroll sitting in Farragut Keep proves you wrong."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Olysja✭✭✭guys cmon, when you place 40 sieges on a *** resource 100% needed for take back a keep, and there are no ways to round it or to push it, can i ask you, where the *** is the pvp(player versus player)? i take my kills anyway with or without sieges, and i always used sieges, but atm each *** lowbie with 0 dps is using a siege just cause the AP/h is better than the one he had before. And anyway many core pvpers on thornblade (EU) are atm placing sieges also in 2v2 3v3 and i'll not explain here with which kind of tricks. core players not lowbies. We are cryinghard about a Meteora 190points ulti that does 20k(on lowbies undressed) and we are agreed on a *** *** balista that does 30k+(dmg+ticks) on a full dressed endgame player with a recast time of 2 secs and an AOE bigger than any other spellcasted AOE. this isn't anymore pvp, it's SiegeVSplayersVsSieges. And the problem is not just in prime time (19.00-23.00) when you can't enter an outpost full sieged even with a full faction push, the problem is also in the morning at 9.00am or at 2.00am in the night where the sieges makes the game also in smallscaled pvp; don't look at tards with a fire balista, there are great players aiming well with sieges: )Are you a perfect russian woman? add me-> @Olysja (✿☯‿☯✿)
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PeggymoeXD✭✭✭✭Shield, roll, cloak, purge, purify, roll, move, get away, mitigate damage, roll, don't go in the AoE. <-- Some secrets to not dying to siege.
If you're still on here complaining, you have been weeded out as squish. I've been in Cyrodiil all week, in heavy defensive and offensive battles and have died to siege 3 times. If you can't mitigate damage, or cleanse the DoT, than you should practice it. Stop relying on the zerg to purge or cleanse you. Try these things yourself. If a large group is being focused by siege, stay out of that group. I'm honestly flabbergasted at the fact that the majority of the community is having such a fit over such a simple problem. Yeah, every now and then, you will be hit with siege, it's not 100% avoidable. But I'd give it a solid 75% avoidable, and if you didn't avoid it, definitely still possible to live through with the correct actions. During a failed attempt to capture Alessia, I was sitting in siege rezzing people being killed by it. Then proceeded to the walls and killed one of the players manning siege myself before being focused and killed by player skills. I run 3 pieces of heavy armor, 4 medium and have about 24k health. I do not consider myself a tank in pvp, given that I have about 2k weapon damage unbuffed. It's possible to not be one shot and still deal damage I promise you.Kitty DK
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Gravord✭✭✭✭✭PeggymoeXD wrote: »Shield, roll, cloak, purge, purify, roll, move, get away, mitigate damage, roll, don't go in the AoE. <-- Some secrets to not dying to siege.
Again. Why on earth you have to do so much things to counter 1 click nab sitting on siege? Where are his superior skills to hit 20k+ without any bothering with gear, spec, leveling. Risk vs reward, effort vs reward. Broken siege remove any balance from those factors.
Its not about dying to siege but totally broken concept having nothing common with idea of player vs player game.Edited by Gravord on March 26, 2015 8:09PM1 -
Ara_Valleria✭✭✭✭✭Soo00oooo..
Yesterday me and few others were sieging a resource tower inside which a well know group of strawberries were trying to set up a farm. While sieging the said tower, I noticed a few (5 or so) cherries set up seige a few steps behind me, to siege me while i was still on my siege.
Basically, instead of trying to sneak up to me and try to kill me while i was distracted (since i was sieging), these clever individuals decided the best course of action is to set up siege just a few steps behind me and 1 shot me 'cause why not ? Siege should be able to do that right ?
Why bother fighting people using abilities when you can just Siege the crap out of them ?
Such high level strats should be encouraged right ?
#WipeWithoutAFight
#AbilitiesAreForPussies
#OnlyProsUseSeige
#SVS
*No they couldn't kill me using their ingenious plan.
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Durandal✭✭PeggymoeXD wrote: »Shield, roll, cloak, purge, purify, roll, move, get away, mitigate damage, roll, don't go in the AoE. <-- Some secrets to not dying to siege.
Again. Why on earth you have to do so much thing to counter 1 click nab sitting on siege? Where are his superior skills to hit 20k+ without any bothering with gear, spec, leveling. Rks vs reward, effort vs reward. Broken siege remove any balance from those factors.
Its not about dying to siege but totally broken concept having nothing common with idea of player vs player game.
Well you could sneak up to said "nab" and kill them and then burn the siege... Or just burn their siege and sneak away. Or set up counter siege, or dodge out of the first shot of the siege and then sprint in and kill him... or __InsertCommonSenseHere__
Or you could just stand still in the aoe and let him kill you with siege >.>
Durandal
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyone who complains about the siege damage seriously needs to readjust their tactics because this is not a difficult thing to avoid. Yes zerg bombs and "stacking on crown" are no longer viable tactics and I'm glad. People who want to heal, now have a reason to. Stop rushing in with a large tight group and do some actual strategy and planning and you will do just fine.- It takes time to set up a siege weapon.
- Aiming and firing take a couple seconds.
- It takes time for the projectile to fly through the air.
- You have to wait a few seconds to reload and repeat the process.
Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on March 26, 2015 8:12PM:trollin:2