Solo Endgame needed - Must Group Must End.

LameoveR · March 2015

OP, i think it is just spring struck in your head.

Soloeus wrote: »

You were not helpful anyway. My crafting is maxed on 3 different characters. And the best trials sets? And making sets that are competitive with the best traits and combinations? That requires all 9.

What 9? traits? You are wrong.

Kingdinguhling · March 2015

Soloeus wrote: »

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

hes thinking that crafted is garbage or what we are suggesting are 9 trait sets lol. hes obviously just not to educated.

he needs to do some research.

The 9 trait sets are better than the 8 trait sets. As more content appears creating 10 piece sets, for example, how will they compare in power to the 8 or 9 piece sets? How will you get the crafting mats or gear to decon for traits? If it only comes from Group Content, the gap is widened again.

Crafted is not Garbage - but to be competitive you have to have all the traits researched. Especially as more are added.

WE HAVE TOLD U TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THE BEST GEAR IS CRAFTED AND NOT THE TWICE BORN STAR SET (9 trait set)

the sets I suggested are only 3 trait sets.

if you cant win with those in PVP 1v1 then its a LTP issue.

Trial gear has been proven time and time again by PTSer's to be far less superior due to weapon and spell damage being higher on crafted sets. in fact there is a lot of threads angry about trial sets not being worth obtaining anymore.

Soloeus · March 2015

Knootewoot wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I also do not participate in group PvE endgame content. But I do PvP. The argument "my items get weaker..." is not valid. Most people, me included, run around in crafted sets you also have access to as solo player. Hunding( 6 traits) and ashen (2 traits) is still considered good gear for PvP. I even run weaker sets like nights silence (2 traits) most of the times.

All divines trait I use, not nirnhorned so solo friendly.

There are, of course, players running around in the pledges and trials gear. But they do not Pwn on the battlefield.

Also as a solo PvP player you can AP from which you can buy PvP gear from vendors if you don't like crafting. There are some good sets out there.

But if you don't like PvP, yes then I am afraid TESO has little to offer for solo players since Craglorn is completely group orientated. But I fail to see how to implement solo endgame content. You mean like a solo raid?

I love PVP - it is the main reason to play ESO in my opinion.

Don't you have to be in a group to AP Farm?

Soloeus · March 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Noone likes craglorn.

Guess I'm noone then...
Of course, that means I'm Perfect, since noone is Perfect...

HA! Good one, I see what you did there.

Kingdinguhling · March 2015

no u don't have to be in group to AP farm.... just defend keeps and out posts and rebuild walls. youll get tons of AP

Kingdinguhling · March 2015

Now siege weapons are incredibly powerful. and lvl your bow and stay on the walls while defending. youll get tons of AP

Kingdinguhling · March 2015

Just as I suspected this is a LTP issue....

Soloeus · March 2015

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Just as I suspected this is a LTP issue....

Definitely not.

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Now siege weapons are incredibly powerful. and lvl your bow and stay on the walls while defending. youll get tons of AP

Glad they changed them. When I last logged out the only one you "could" use was either flaming oil all over the floor everywhere, or stacking 5+ meatbags all to hit the same spot.

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

no u don't have to be in group to AP farm.... just defend keeps and out posts and rebuild walls. youll get tons of AP

Exaggerate much?

Vegaroth · March 2015

I think they have talked in the past about plans to make a solo version of DSA, i think as mainly solo player that could be great idea. I do daily pledge with a group of guildies (than have patience enougth to deal with my laggy and constantly freezing game) and trials (guild runs), but i preffer solo playing, deppends on mood sometimes u want to do coop stuff, solo stuff or just wandering around, i think part of the appeal of TES series is the wide options they offer and as MMO TESOU lack of solo content once u reach max lvl.

Soloeus · March 2015

Vegaroth wrote: »

I think they have talked in the past about plans to make a solo version of DSA, i think as mainly solo player that could be great idea. I do daily pledge with a group of guildies (than have patience enougth to deal with my laggy and constantly freezing game) and trials (guild runs), but i preffer solo playing, deppends on mood sometimes u want to do coop stuff, solo stuff or just wandering around, i think part of the appeal of TES series is the wide options they offer and as MMO TESOU lack of solo content once u reach max lvl.

This exactly.

I find there a difference between a Formal Group - and just minor co-oping. I don't mind minor co-oping once in a while. What I hate, is the need to be in a Formal Group to get anything done past V10.

Knootewoot · March 2015

Soloeus wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I also do not participate in group PvE endgame content. But I do PvP. The argument "my items get weaker..." is not valid. Most people, me included, run around in crafted sets you also have access to as solo player. Hunding( 6 traits) and ashen (2 traits) is still considered good gear for PvP. I even run weaker sets like nights silence (2 traits) most of the times.

All divines trait I use, not nirnhorned so solo friendly.

There are, of course, players running around in the pledges and trials gear. But they do not Pwn on the battlefield.

Also as a solo PvP player you can AP from which you can buy PvP gear from vendors if you don't like crafting. There are some good sets out there.

But if you don't like PvP, yes then I am afraid TESO has little to offer for solo players since Craglorn is completely group orientated. But I fail to see how to implement solo endgame content. You mean like a solo raid?

I love PVP - it is the main reason to play ESO in my opinion.

Don't you have to be in a group to AP Farm?

I don't farm PvP. I just have fun playing. I group with my guild for PvP, but I also solo PvP and get enough AP by defending keeps. I currently sit on 5 million AP and have always more then enough sieges to completely flatten cyrodill.

Just play, and the AP will come. I don't use the elite gear from the vendor since I just run around in crafted sets from the start area's. I use the AP only for sieges and soulgems.

Kingdinguhling · March 2015

Knootewoot wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

I don't enjoy raids/trails and impatient rude people. I also don't enjoy rushing through content, and I don't like it when entering into a piece of content pre-obligates a large block of my time. Unfortunately, this means I cannot even compete in PVP. My items get weaker every few weeks/months (because stronger stuff comes out that I cannot get), and any fun or challenge is removed because I can just rely on the others to cover my weaknesses (challenge), and the people grouping up are hardly fun to group with.

I also do not participate in group PvE endgame content. But I do PvP. The argument "my items get weaker..." is not valid. Most people, me included, run around in crafted sets you also have access to as solo player. Hunding( 6 traits) and ashen (2 traits) is still considered good gear for PvP. I even run weaker sets like nights silence (2 traits) most of the times.

All divines trait I use, not nirnhorned so solo friendly.

There are, of course, players running around in the pledges and trials gear. But they do not Pwn on the battlefield.

Also as a solo PvP player you can AP from which you can buy PvP gear from vendors if you don't like crafting. There are some good sets out there.

But if you don't like PvP, yes then I am afraid TESO has little to offer for solo players since Craglorn is completely group orientated. But I fail to see how to implement solo endgame content. You mean like a solo raid?

I love PVP - it is the main reason to play ESO in my opinion.

Don't you have to be in a group to AP Farm?

I don't farm PvP. I just have fun playing. I group with my guild for PvP, but I also solo PvP and get enough AP by defending keeps. I currently sit on 5 million AP and have always more then enough sieges to completely flatten cyrodill.

Just play, and the AP will come. I don't use the elite gear from the vendor since I just run around in crafted sets from the start area's. I use the AP only for sieges and soulgems.

TRUE THIS!!!!! this is what im trying to say as well ....

this OP is trolling he has no clue what he is talking about.

ElliottXO · March 2015

Grinding alone brings most XP, most skill points and most gold.

What else do you want? Best gear? So everyone will play alone? Awesome MMO.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · March 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

This is Elder Scrolls ONLINE, not Elder Scrolls VI.
I hear this game offers great opportunities for solo play.

The 'G' in MMORPG doesn't stnad for group .. and online simply means you need to connect to a server to play, the word has no other meaning.

And while there may be "great opportunities" for solo play there comes a point when it reverts to a 1990s group-or-die affair which many (the majority likely) don't want to be forced to do simply to LEVEL UP: that's the hallmark of games from the 1990s or those early in the 2000s like FFXI which were based on earlier games.

Grapdjan · March 2015

Yes but we're getting off topic really. The OP was simply demanding that they be allowed to do the current endgame dungeon and raid content solo and enjoy the same quality rewards.

doggie · March 2015

Funcom added quite a bit of Solo end game content to Age of Conan in 2010-2012, it started with the faction system where you could level up on one side get a few epics then betray the faction and level up the other side to get more loot. Then they started to add Solo dungeons in 2011 and 2012. These dungeons rewarded the same token you got from Hardmode dungeons. So you could buy the best dungeon gear in time.

Ontop of that there was PVP gear that was quite good, and as far as I know they still add to the pvp gear. They've also added world bosses that everyone can attend with zero absolutely ZERO skills or communications required. If you're on the boss hate list you get the same loot as everyone else.

The reason Funcom added all this stuff is that about 25-35% of the players in a mmorpg is Solo players. So if you want to retain their subs you need to provide them content.

That said in ESO there is quite a bit of stuff to do as a solo player and the majority of the best loot appear to be from world drops, crafting, or pvp, and you can upgrade everything to gold. It's not that bad compared to other games.

If you have the best solo gear for you class in ESO there will be very few players who have better gear.

Soloeus · March 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

Yes but we're getting off topic really. The OP was simply demanding that they be allowed to do the current endgame dungeon and raid content solo and enjoy the same quality rewards.

Partially.

I am not demanding - that is against the Terms of Service and Community Rules.

I am saying that this game will only appeal to a small niche of gamers so long as once you reach the top you can only continue to advance from Group Play. Enjoying the same quality of rewards for my time is the goal. I want my time to be as valued as the time of others. Granted, I am not spending my time with others but that doesn't make my time worthless.

I have too many reasons for not liking Group Only as a means to advance. The best solution is to permit solo players to enjoy the game on the same level as Group Players. This doesn't mean "easier" - it could in many situations mean "harder." The point isn't difficulty (the game isn't hard anyway). It is time value.

There is nothing unreasonable about my request - the only objectors are people who want to force me to play the type of game they want ESO to be, at the expense of people like me. For those who like group content, you won't be forced to play Solo Content to advance. But for those who don't, we are forced to play Group Content to advance. That is the problem.

LordSkyKnight · March 2015

MMOs need to revert back to the way they were in the 90s including grouping and difficulty. I would love them to chase off these casual soloists. They are the main reason MMOs have been dumbed down to the point that they are at now. If they game becomes anymore solo friendly, it would need to be called massively solo online persistent world. Good grief, if you want to play solo go buy some offline single player game and gtfo.

Soloeus · March 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

This is Elder Scrolls ONLINE, not Elder Scrolls VI.
I hear this game offers great opportunities for solo play.

The 'G' in MMORPG doesn't stnad for group .. and online simply means you need to connect to a server to play, the word has no other meaning.

And while there may be "great opportunities" for solo play there comes a point when it reverts to a 1990s group-or-die affair which many (the majority likely) don't want to be forced to do simply to LEVEL UP: that's the hallmark of games from the 1990s or those early in the 2000s like FFXI which were based on earlier games.

Exactly, we need evolution not de-evolution. For the genre to evolve it must do one of 2 things:

1. Re-invigorate the MMO fad so it becomes mainstream again. Regenerate interest in MMO's among the general public.

Or

2. Find a new audience.

I know a large audience of gamers - Solo Players. We are one of the biggest demographics. We are alienated from this genre of game because even if there is Solo Content early and mid-game the end-game does a bait-and-switch into group only. This is the point in which most Solo Players quit an MMO. The means to not lose these players - is to have solo content at the endgame which can be repeated to the heart's desire. Content which gives equal rewards on terms of item quality as group players. This doesn't drive anybody away - it brings people in.

Common sense, really.

AngryNord · March 2015

Solo players are alienated from MULTIPLAYER games... How weird... Turn in NeXT week for more weirdness: Men are alienated from giving birth.

SteveCampsOut · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

And what successful game in the history of MMO's has ever offered what you outlined in the opening post?
.

Example #1 DAoC! Solo Class Quest Items!! Can't be gotten through a group challenge but comparable at the time they came out with Group Loot items! In DAoC each classline had quest from level 5 to 50 ending in a reward for that class type. These quests were SOLO! At level 50 each class when completing their Master Quest received a full set of Armor and a Weapon specific to their needs! DAoC has been running with Sub's since 1998. May not be as popular now as it originally was, but it counts as successful simply due to the longevity it has achieved!

Grapdjan wrote: »

Yes but we're getting off topic really. The OP was simply demanding that they be allowed to do the current endgame dungeon and raid content solo and enjoy the same quality rewards.

No he wasn't. He was asking for "Equivalent" items from Solo content.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO · March 2015

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

and most are wearing crafted gear in endgame atm because its the strongest... so you just don't seem to be doing any research.

get you a 5 piece hunding rage 5 ravagers and go to town in PVP. or 5 piece hunding and 5 piece morags tong.... its all crafted. ravageres if you have some AP.

You can only craft this with Group Only Content (Nirnhoned).

your crazy hunding rage is in the first zone and is only 3 trait lol.

and I believe that ravagers only cost like 30k AP each piece. as for Morags tong I believe its like 4-5 trait but its still easy to craft when you find the booth.

Sorry to intervene here, but some corrections on the above seem in order, no?

Hunding's Rage is a crafted set, which requires the crafter to know 6 traits.
Ravager is not a crafted set, but can be bought at VR14 from the elite vendor in Cyrodil for about 248k AP per piece and is also a reward for top ranked PVPer at the end of the PVP campaign. Cost for VR13, VR10 etc. is much less though.
Morag Tong can also be bought at the Vendors in Cyrodil, but only in the form of the "surprise me" packages. It's quite rare and will take even more AP to get if you are looking for some specific pieces. (Best bet is guild stores and zone chat)

If there is actually a crafting station anywhere in Tamriel for Morag Tong, this one would be really keen to know, as this one is just about to start research on the 9th trait for the last pieces...

The best gear set-ups currently are

one full set of dropped / bought armor with 3 pieces of jewelry (for the 3 extra set boni from the jewelry)
one set of crafted armor (5, 4 or 3 pieces)
one set of crafted or dropped armor (in case of 2/3 pieces or even 2/3/4 pieces in case of dual wield or sword and board.

For a total of 11 (for all 2 handed options) or 12 (for dual wield / sword and board) pieces total, you will then have set-ups using 5+5+1/2 or 5+4+2/3 or 5+3+3 pieces.

Please also note, that there are some decent 3 pieces sets with decent set-boni, where most parts are also jewelry. When using these, you can even get a very decent set-up (certainly good enough for soloing most bosses / dungeons and even PvPing) with all the remaining pieces from crafted sets only. (You might want to put different enchantments on these)

The lack of crafted jewelry is the reason why many consider crafted gear to be sub-par to dropped sets. But as pointed out above (and by many others in various posts on this forum), one or two crafted sets are part of any good set-up nowadays.

However, keep in mind that some boni / boni combinations will not be available by crafted sets (they are extremely unevenly distributed), forcing you to use a dropped set also for your set #3 if your set-up demands these boni.

Xsorus · March 2015

5 hunding, 3 piece dheurger, 3 piece shadow walker, you can craft, and buy everything I listed, none of it requires group combat.

LucyferLightbringer · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Your solution is that they waste man hours and money creating something that would make the necessity for grouping obsolete. Grouping which is the bread and butter of an MMO.

Grouping is not bread and butter of MMO, many players playing online together and interacting in various ways is. Really cant wait for dlcs to show up, then we can start voting with wallets. We will see if developing solo content is waste of man hours and money, or maybe we will see that many people don't want to pay for forced group conten

Uviryth · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

And what successful game in the history of MMO's has ever offered what you outlined in the opening post?

LotRo lets you scale the endgame-stuff to 1-12 players. The only thing that changes is the amount of tokens you get. You can get everything in the game while playing solo, only slower.

Keron · March 2015

Whoa, a second one of those on the same day? Yay, this is a promising start for today. Let's see a little more unbridled forum rage by OP who just wanted to rile up others but got caught up in his own machinations.

My two cents on topic: Endgame is called endgame because it adds another level of play on top of pure difficulty: coordination. You need to synergize (and that is not only referring to pressing x when it comes up on screen), you have different tasks simultaneously and need to organize that all of em are fulfilled appropriately.

If you show me a possibility to achieve a similar level of coordinating yourself and the encounters that require this to be solved for single player content and all this while being doable for every class/race/build (the definition of solo content you give the impression of demanding is that: doable for every jack and his son), then and only then you may have an argument to get the same rewards.

All the more, the sets considered to be almost BiS and mostly better than the trials gear are either crafted (fully solo-able) or from PvP (for most stamina builds) or are available in treasure chests (martial knowledge). What you really are saying is:

Wääh, I want my "master's what-not" without having to do group content!

(the letter "ä" is a German one. Consider the mimetic expression leading that sentence to be a very adequate representation of a child's sounds if it doesn't get what it wants).

I concede that the Undaunted sets are nice and gated behind veteran group content. Also they are the only "sets" that bestow a bonus for just wearing one piece - talk about instant gratification

. But they are by no means required to be able to compete in either PvE or PvP, not even for the "endgame" you so clearly do not want to take part in.

R1ckyDaMan · March 2015

When Craglorn was released ZOS prob lost alot of subs, those who waited were left unhappy as the next update was Upper Craglorn, more people left, the game had such a large elder scrolls fanbase to appeal to, they chose the MMO player route and suffered for it, they need to start making content to appeal to the "majority" of elder scrolls players if want to make this game a success and that includes end game that does not force grouping.

People can say that MMO's are group or die, this is not just an MMO its an elder scrolls MMO.

BlackEar · March 2015

Soloeus wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

This is Elder Scrolls ONLINE, not Elder Scrolls VI.
I hear this game offers great opportunities for solo play.

Ahh, this strawman argument again. Go away.

It wasn't a strawman argument. He was not presenting it as something you claimed. He was merely emphasizing the difference.

Crafting is a viable option to get good endgame gear and you can do it solo.
There is your solution.

Other than that, gear from solo content should never be as powerful as that which requires group play. It is simply bad design. What I am saying is: I think it is a bad idea and I plead the developer's to not do this.

SpiritusSancti · March 2015

It always surprises me that people imagine there is a single answer to the question of solo play. That there is a single definition for MMO and that there is no room for alternative play styles. There is room for solo content just as there is room for group play. To define MMOs as group play only is fine, as a personal definition, but to do so whilst simultaneously seeking to restrict another player's definition of MMO is mean-spirited. The game's creators have indicated that they want to see more solo content introduced and we will all be the richer for the increased choice.

Those who feel solo play should not exist are free to abstain from solo content.

More particularly I believe the solo play areas should allow players an equal chance of obtaining high end equipment because for many of us the opportunities to do so in groups are limited by real world commitments and time constraints (but I also believe it ought to require a similar level of effort to obtain those items).

I suppose one could always create sets whose 5th or last bonus stat would only be available if you obtained it whilst grouped and wore it whilst grouped or obtained it whilst solo and wore it whilst solo... Not as a general rule but one or two sets obtainable and wearable on that basis.

Then, those who don't want to accept others ought to be able to play some of the PvE content whilst solo, could take some measure of satisfaction from knowing they can't enjoy their rewards - unless solo.

Etaniel · March 2015

@Soloeus Alright so if i understand correctly, your issue is that your gear isn't as strong as others in PvP, because they do end game content that you can't do solo?

The only gear i use is gear that i crafted myself, or gear i got through ap boxes. It doesn't require 9 traits. Even if it did, since when is 9 trait gear restricted to people who group???? Can you not farm nirncrux solo in in craglorn?? Can you not pay a crafter if you're too lazy to farm it? I really am confused here.

If zos added solo content that yielded the same gear as group trials, it would kill multiplayer pve. No one would bother grouping up when they can just solo everything. It totally destroys the mmo aspect.
I haven't seen a single valid argument from you yet. And please don't tell me you need trial gear to be competitive, i've never worn any trial gear and i'm as competitive as can be in PvP AND in PvE.