Kuettbullen wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I am a vampire myself, and I say yes. Vampires (and werewolves) and hideous creatures and should die. They prey on the people like parasites. Already (on DC) there are enough quests against werewolves and vampires. People just hate them.

At stage 1 people should tell you , you look sick
At stage 2 people should tell you, go visit the shrine and pray to whoever they should pray to.
At stage 3 people do not want to talk/barter to you (except in cyrodill and thief hideouts)
At stage 4 people attack you.

Time between stages should be longer then (like 4 hours)

Werewolves should in human form be told they smell like dog
In werewolve form = instant attack

Edit: and night's silence armor should stack again.

If you want to implement KoS on vampires also make KoS (Kill on Smell) for werewolves because vampires cant control how they look same as werewolves cant control how they smell or atleast make hoods and helmets have impact if people can detect if you're a vampire or not.

It doesn't matter that vampires can't control how they look. Neither can most monsters. Werewolves, on the other hand, can and I do not begrudge them the fact that, for the most part, their curse is concealed. However, vampires CAN mitigate how they look through feeding. Since we're only talking about vamps being KOS at Stage 4 this isn't nearly the handicap some people make it out to be.

TheBloodartist wrote: »

Probitas wrote: »

I don't see any real negatives in this game to being a vampire since most debuffs are overcome by other buffs.

Say the what now? Are we playing the same game? In PVE I consider being a vampire almost unplayable due to the amount of fire damage present every-frikkin-where.Especially in certain story missions.

MornaBaine wrote: »

What people are getting confused about is that some players have also spoken of wanting a bounty to be incurred (which WOULD initiate PvP) when vampires feed on NPC Townies. That doesn't have anything to do with their Stage. Stage 4 vamps do not get flagged for PvP, they merely become KoS to city guard NPCs. To incur a bounty you have to actually engage in a criminal activity... which is what attacking a townie to feed on them would be classed as.

Speaking of incurring a bounty, Im not sure if I understand the system correctly yet since I returned to game from a long hiatus with Tamriel unlimited...

But feeding on a townie will make the said townie attack you once the stun wears off. And you kinda have to kill them cause they keep hitting you with their tiny fists. Isn't murder a criminal activity already?

About the topic... I am not completely opposed to guards attacking high-stage vampires on sight, but I don't want to encourage such an idea until I'm sure devs think the entire game experience through completely and not just screw something else up in the process. Cities currently are very important, need them for selling stuff, crafting, guild missions and mission chains.

Feeding has several issues:
- the stages advance too quickly, on this I agree with everyone else
- there are plenty mobs that a vampire cannot feed on even though he should be able to. All non-humanoids, undead, daedra, werewolves.. Because of this, there are many large areas in the game where feeding is much harder, and most practical feeding victims are in the cities. Thus, restricting city entry can be really bad.
- Cannot feed in combat, something that should be possible to attempt, maybe with a random chance of success.
- Cannot feed on people leaning on a wall or having their backs to a wall. Feeding in a dungeon is a pain in the rear because of this.
- Cannot feed on civilians stealthily. Once feeding is done, they will attack you and often necessitate killing them. We could use feeding on sleeping people like in skyrim or something similar. Especially if devs would make guards attack vampires, there should at least be some manner of stealth-feeding possible. It would also be way more immersive than the current feeding animation..
- The stages effects don't have much importance apart from visually.
- The animation is FRIKKEN STUPID.

Welcome to the "dear gods please make vampires make more sense" club. Good to have you aboard. Since the PvP portion of the Justice System appears to be on indefinite hold we can only speculate on how that might work with regards to vampires and werewolves. But now that we have the portion of the Justice System that relates to PvE we can figure out some good ways to make it apply to vampires and werewolves.

If you feed all the way down to Stage 1 before entering a city that will then give you 3 hours before you have to worry about incurring the wrath of the guards, which should be PLENTY of time to take care of whatever business you are there to transact.

As long as ZOS refuses to make meaningful changes that actually make each Stage have real pros and cons, Stage 4 is going to remain the preferred Stage for PvPers. That being the case, the time of Stage 1 and Stage 3 should be switched. Stage 1 should last one and a half hours instead of its current 30 minutes and Stage 3 should be the briefest Stage. This way the PvP crowd can choose to feed just once when they just need to duck into a city for repairs and be back to Stage 4 quickly so that they can return to Cyrodiil at their preferred Stage.

However, IF ZOS were to revamp vamps and make the Stages all have meaningful pros and cons then the timers would need to be redone completely with each Stage lasting 2 hours since a "day" in Tamriel is roughly 6 hours.

Stealth feeding in cities NEEDS to happen. Vampires need a charm ability that will allow them to feed on civilians without incurring aggro. Of course this also needs a chance of failure and should probably be an active ability you need to slot and level up. When a vampire does feed on a townie, instead of just incurring aggro from them, there should also be a chance they will RUN! And scream! Drawing lots of guards!

It would be my dream come true if they'd do the following regarding NPC reactions to the various Stage.

Stage 1: No reaction. Maybe an incredibly small chance of the odd NPC telling you, "You look a little pale. Have you seen a doctor?"

Stage 2: NPCs begin to remark on your pallor and "hungry eyes."

Stage 3: NPCs start refusing to deal with you and some will outright run away but without causing a fuss.

Stge 4: KOS to guards and even some citizens, other citizens scream and run for the hills at your approach.

Regarding the feeding animation, so ALL of this, " The animation is FRIKKEN STUPID."

michael_bimson wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nights are 2 hours whereas days are 4.

Maybe its summer in Tamriel?

Ultimately, I feel the treatment of vampires should fit in with established lore, in Daggerfall I think you pretty much passed unnoticed, in Morrowind most people except the Mages Guild and House Telvanni would either not engage with you or actively try and kill you, in Oblivion there are a couple of vampires who pass unnoticed in society and people would shun you at stage four and guards refuse to accept yields and in Skyrim its attack on sight at stage 4.

Each game has established a number of vampire clans some of which are more obviously vampires than others, so could require the identification of each vampire's bloodline and the bloodlines could provide varied benefits. However instead of one small tweak I seem to be moving on to an entire vampire based update so perhaps it would be better left alone

No, there totally NEEDS to be an entire vampire update and one that is much better than what werewolves got. Werewolves totally need another one.

No, no aboslutly not.. I don't want to be followed by tons of guards evrytime i enter a city.. and i don't want to be forced to feed evry 2 hr to get rid of my stage 4.. Stage 4 reduces cost of vamp skills, especially mist form, which is important for me from pvp perspective.. Also i am using bats as ultimate while doing pledges.. So NO!

Ryuho wrote: »

No, no aboslutly not.. I don't want to be followed by tons of guards evrytime i enter a city.. and i don't want to be forced to feed evry 2 hr to get rid of my stage 4.. Stage 4 reduces cost of vamp skills, especially mist form, which is important for me from pvp perspective.. Also i am using bats as ultimate while doing pledges.. So NO!

Read the OP all the way through. Read the thread. In addition to making vamps KOS at Stage 4, other changes would need to be implemented as well. BECAUSE of PvPers. That's been taken into account. So please acquaint yourself with the entire concept before making a decision. Please also realize that you aren't the only one who plays the game and while the desires of PvPers are important (and, as stated, have been taken into account) it is unreasonable to treat vampires as if they are the exclusive province of PvPers. Thank you.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

The only reason a guard would kill you on sight is if you acted like a maniac. There are plenty of vampires in the series where everyone knew they were vampires but just let them be because they didn't go on a murderous rampage when they wanted to go out for a pint. If everyone went off and killed the other because they looked like monsters then we'd only be playing Imperials, Redguard or Nord as every other race would be decimated for being monstrous looking or the ability to use magic better.

I'm all for realism, but I don't want the realism of medieval Europe and it's discriminatory practises.

The "problem" is that those "discriminatory" practices you decry are already firmly established in the game. In DC you have SEVERAL quests that pit you against vampires and bloodfiends. Count Verandis Ravenwatch, close friend of many years to High King Emeric, is forced to hide his vampirism by the King's command. Because even Emeric knows that, if Ravenwatch is discovered to be a vampire, he's a dead man. Vampires are rightly feared and mostly hated. The game mechanics we have to deal with as players should reflect this while at the same time giving us means to mitigate the worst of it. Like, you know, the ability to HIDE our vampirism just like Ravenwatch. But then if we fail to do so.... it's all about the pitchforks and torches.

And as this game is set before all the others, then it is logical to say that Count Ravenwatch actions here could have brought about the tolerance for Count Hassildor of Skingrad in Oblivion. Vampires still have free will, they still choose how they feed. If they choose to go to the tavern and slaughter everyone in it for a light snack, they they should expect the full force of the law to come down on them. Which is what a lot of the NPC vampires tend to choose to do in this game. Yet those that choose not to are tolerated.

Emeric DOES know Verandis is a vampire. That is made clear in the quest. Verandis hides his condition at Emeric's insistence. Because he doesn't want his good friend the vampire to be killed by a mob. Because he knows most people hate and fear vampires.

Vizier wrote: »

Absolutely. Stage 4 vamps should be be classified as criminal and open season for vampire hunters. This is a prrrrfect mechanism for open world PvP, role play and immersion throughout Tamriel.

They would need to make each stage of vampirism last much much longer though. It is not reasonable for vampires needing to feed every 20 minutes. That time-frame should never have existed in the first place IMO. For those that don't want to be vamp 4 it's a constant need to feed. Make it every 24 hours and offer vampires a haven they can retreat to such as Castle Rivenspire for DC they can provision, feed and sell goods. This way there is a reasonable and lore friendly alternative for them to function in game and if they don't want to participate in PvP they have lots of time to ensure they aren't Vamp 4.

There should be a fighters guild Vamp Hunter achievement necessary to be part of the other side an Fighters Guild and Vamp Faction should be mutually exclusive.

I would LOVE to see this or something like it implemented. You bet.

I like the lore aspect. I would add something - If I just fed, my resistance to fire and fighters guild abilities should be way higher.

FadedJeans wrote: »

Yes. Vampires should be KoS for stage 3 or 4.

Transformed Werewolves should also be KoS.

You're playing monsters. There should be benefits and consequences.

I would go with shunning at stage 3 and KOS at stage 4. Otherwise agreed.

Yes, if it actually took a week to get to stage 4 and not, like, 3 hours.

Ryuho wrote: »

Good luck in City of Ash or vs DK in pvp..

Agreed, a stage 4 vamp ought to have little chance against concentrated fire or FG abilites. But I could have done a better job explaining myself, by 100% vulnerability to Fighter's Guild abilities I mean same as current since I don't believe we have any reliable measure of FG ability vulnerability. You are vulnerable or you're not.

I'm saying that the vulnerablity at stages lower than 4 should be lower than it is now. That way if you are headed to COA you would have the option of giving up some offensive capability in favor of survivability by feeding before you head in.

Kalfis wrote: »

Sure, as long as we can kill the guards. Then It would be fair.

I do hope the immortal guards are a stopgap until they can figure out the player enforcer mechanic.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and edited response]

Gix wrote: »

Completely sabotaging someone else's experience just because "you don't like it" is a terrible idea. With that said, I do agree that vampires should get some disadvantages; particularly in the later stages of vampirism.

A more sensible change would be to slowly increase their bounty at Stage 4 by 1 gold every few minutes (like 5min or so)... so that they can eventually be KoS by guards if they completely ignore it and, while the guards would treat them like mere thieves, at least the guards would react to them. However, even this is nowhere near a good solution.

Whatever the solution may be, it has to promote "fun" and not be a complete chore.

I think a better solution is to make Stage 4 not the only stage to be in by making stages 1 -3 more desirable depending on what you are facing.