Players Need More Control Over Justice System Choices

abuniffpreub18_ESO · March 2015

As Fleshreaper said:

"Well, it wasn't always like that in ESO, the game did not ship like that. So, it's an update to the game that changes how it once was. I personally don't care, I love the current system. However, I am also a reasonable and understanding person and can see how the current system could be a problem, especially to those that have handicaps. I look at it like this, having options are going to keep people in the game and bring new people over. Because FORCE someone to play this way, WILL NOT WORK. They will leave and play something else. When enough players feel this way, the game will die."

"I don't see how giving someone the option to play the game the way they want to play it when it has absolutely no bearing what so ever on your play style, is problem. People are different and some people find this feature annoying, (they are NOT trying to take it away from you) they are just trying to enjoy the game with out having to worry about this feature. So, because people disagree with you on an issue that would have absolutely NO effect on you what so ever, let's call them ignorant? Hello kettle, meet pot."

I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.

I've been here since day one, paid $100 like a lot of others for the collectors edition and now this is not the game I bought. I definitely want a opt out option for the so called justice system. You people that like it, fine keep it. I don't and a lot of others don't either. You want to play your way and I want to play mine.

Flame away.

starkerealm · March 2015

GreySix wrote: »

I'd be fine with completely toggling off the justice system, but potential for abuse would exist were it not done right.

"Oops! Looks like I got caught stealing something, so lemme just toggle this off..."

Except, no one, except maybe Nerevarine, is saying that. What we've been saying over and over is to remove the ability to interact with owned objects before you take them. Not whatever scarecrow you set up in your field to set fire to.

starkerealm · March 2015

Majic wrote: »

The War On Progress

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's absolutely astounding that arguing in favor of people being responsible for their own actions in-game has resulted in actual accusations of trolling.

The system does not need fixing or tweaking in this way. If you steal something "by mistake," then you need to be less trigger happy.

What's astounding is the extraordinary amount of effort that is being devoted to resisting the correction of what are obviously some very serious flaws in the current revision of the game.

What possible harm would correcting these problems cause to you?

Seriously: How does this hurt you?

No, wait, I get it. It diminishes Nerevarine's ability to "pwn noobs" when the PvP component for the justice system comes in. This isn't about players worrying about the justice system, it's about people too scared to go into Cyrodiil, who want the opportunity to gank players in the relative safety of their own alliance starter zones.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »

As Fleshreaper said:

"Well, it wasn't always like that in ESO, the game did not ship like that. So, it's an update to the game that changes how it once was. I personally don't care, I love the current system. However, I am also a reasonable and understanding person and can see how the current system could be a problem, especially to those that have handicaps. I look at it like this, having options are going to keep people in the game and bring new people over. Because FORCE someone to play this way, WILL NOT WORK. They will leave and play something else. When enough players feel this way, the game will die."

"I don't see how giving someone the option to play the game the way they want to play it when it has absolutely no bearing what so ever on your play style, is problem. People are different and some people find this feature annoying, (they are NOT trying to take it away from you) they are just trying to enjoy the game with out having to worry about this feature. So, because people disagree with you on an issue that would have absolutely NO effect on you what so ever, let's call them ignorant? Hello kettle, meet pot."

I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.

I've been here since day one, paid $100 like a lot of others for the collectors edition and now this is not the game I bought. I definitely want a opt out option for the so called justice system. You people that like it, fine keep it. I don't and a lot of others don't either. You want to play your way and I want to play mine.

Flame away.

This isn't flaming, although I'm sure some will construe it as such rather than read the argument.

If you haven't found good provisioning recipes, then you aren't looking in the right places. The best way to get purple recipes (speaking as someone with a provisioner who does not steal things) is through the daily writs. Delves are also an excellent source of food containers. And the risk is more or less equal: I can try and steal things undetected in cities, or I can go in to delves and slay my way to legal goods.

And opting out of the Justice System entirely (were that to be an option) wouldn't make the kind of difference you want. You just wouldn't be able to loot anything in cities. Those containers wouldn't be magically made public property.

The main thrust of everyone's opposition to the system seems to be that no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions in-game or suffer any kind of consequences for bad behavior. It's sad that it took this long for the system to get implemented in the game, but it is part of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

starkerealm · March 2015

abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »

I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.

Yeah, the drop rate in the wild is atrocious. I have had pretty good luck finding recipes on the guild kiosks. Sometimes you need to rotate through all the major cities to find ones you want.

I would strongly recommend two addons; SousChef and AwesomeGuildStore. The former makes identifying recipes you don't know a lot easier. It will add a little check mark next to known or unknown recipes (it's user configurable which it does).

AwesomeGuildStore replaces the basic guild kiosk interface with one that is much more user friendly. It will remember what you're searching, so you can just jump from store to store and quickly search. It's easy to pick what you're looking for specifically. (Using the same configuration set as the normal inventory).

You might need AdvancedFilters to get the most out of AGS. This adds a second interface bar under the first on your inventory's categories bar. So when you do something like go to "Materials" you can pick which profession's materials you want to see. With Consumables you can pick Recipes, and only search those.

starkerealm · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

This isn't flaming, although I'm sure some will construe it as such rather than read the argument.

If you haven't found good provisioning recipes, then you aren't looking in the right places. The best way to get purple recipes (speaking as someone with a provisioner who does not steal things) is through the daily writs. Delves are also an excellent source of food containers. And the risk is more or less equal: I can try and steal things undetected in cities, or I can go in to delves and slay my way to legal goods.

Yeah, Nerevarine is right about the writs. If you're not doing them, you should be. They are a fantastic source for some of the rarer recipes, and pay out in more crafting mats than the writ took to complete. If you want to build up a stockpile, you need to be doing these.

He's comically wrong in all other ares, however.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And opting out of the Justice System entirely (were that to be an option) wouldn't make the kind of difference you want. You just wouldn't be able to loot anything in cities. Those containers wouldn't be magically made public property.

Would you stop with that? No one is making that argument except you. No one. It's not relevant, it has nothing to do with the conversation. It's just, "oh, I know, I figured out this one argument point I cans win!! WHY WON'T YOU USE IT!?

"

Just take that strawman out behind the shed and set it on fire.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

The main thrust of everyone's opposition to the system seems to be that no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions in-game or suffer any kind of consequences for bad behavior. It's sad that it took this long for the system to get implemented in the game, but it is part of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

Because players should be punished for poor UI choices. That's entirely reasonable. We don't need no new players. Right?

Keron · March 2015

Even though it derails the topic a bit, I want to put in my 2 cents on the "less supply of provisioning ingredients and/or recipes" discussion: Maybe that's the RNG messing with my perception, but I have never ever before found so many recipes like since introduction of the justice system.

I'm right now questing in greenshade and that region has so many backpacks, urns, barrels, crates and whatnot lying around outside of the cities that I am absolutely sure that there is not one green or blue quality recipe that I have not found at least three times (within the zone level range).

Honestly, go have a look. I'm also sure that there are other regions that have a comparable amount of containers that are not under the justice system. It's really not that bad. Of course this point of view may be completely skewered by an incredible lucky streak, but considering my history, I doubt that.

As to nereva-whatnot and the original topic of this thread, the beautiful thing is that we don't even need to argue with him. The point was made, ZOS needs to make the call whether to change something or not. I would like to make reference to that one famous but awful song of Taylor Swift. You all know which one I mean.

starkerealm · March 2015

Keron wrote: »

Even though it derails the topic a bit, I want to put in my 2 cents on the "less supply of provisioning ingredients and/or recipes" discussion: Maybe that's the RNG messing with my perception, but I have never ever before found so many recipes like since introduction of the justice system.

It's not just you. Recipes do seem to be more common since 1.6. You can't farm out cities the way you used to, but on a per container rate? It does seem to be better. Also, unowned furniture seems to be a goldmine now.

abuniffpreub18_ESO · March 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

Even though it derails the topic a bit, I want to put in my 2 cents on the "less supply of provisioning ingredients and/or recipes" discussion: Maybe that's the RNG messing with my perception, but I have never ever before found so many recipes like since introduction of the justice system.

It's not just you. Recipes do seem to be more common since 1.6. You can't farm out cities the way you used to, but on a per container rate? It does seem to be better. Also, unowned furniture seems to be a goldmine now.

Ok, thanks for the info. I've been looking all over Auridon and all I can find is ingredients and armor, not any recipes. I'll try Greenshade, maybe things are better there.

As far as writs go I went to the mages guild and he didn't give me the option to be certified, only enchanter and alchemy. I never tried writs before so I know I'm not certified. I went there with another character and the option was there. I have two accounts so I started a provisioner on my second account and as I get recipes I'll send them to my provisioner on my main account.

I hope all this isn't a waste of time. By this I mean if they implement pvp like they did the justice system without an opt out option or the ability to decline I'll be out of the game in a heartbeat.

Forgot to mention, both accounts are subbed not b2p.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Keron wrote: »

As to nereva-whatnot and the original topic of this thread, the beautiful thing is that we don't even need to argue with him. The point was made, ZOS needs to make the call whether to change something or not. I would like to make reference to that one famous but awful song of Taylor Swift. You all know which one I mean.

I think this is the saddest part of this whole thread to me. Not the part where you don't want to engage in any kind of reasoned debate, but the fact that many players on this forum (I'd wager there's a big crossover with the players who want this change) literally don't recognize where my name is from.

This is an Elder Scrolls MMO. The Justice System is an integral part of it because of that.

Ysne58 · March 2015

AS I've said before and will repeat again -- regarding the items on tables and shelves etc. If ZOS would put the same kind of warning message that it's stealing and allow the player to decline taking that would solve that part of the issue.

GreySix · March 2015

I downloaded an add-on that prevents my character from taking stolen goods, unless he's in stealth: NoAccidentalStealing.

It works well.

WhimsyDragon · March 2015

Another fun example from tonight: Set up as much safety toggles as I can and go questing. I'm sent to a house, which has the quest doorway icon on it's door so I click it like any other quest. The lock mechanism pops up and I'm all confused, unsure if this is part of the quest or not (doesn't matter if this is a noob mistake -- it shouldn't be an issue) and oh, now I'm disreputable in the town I'm trying to quest in because apparently that's the justice system, not the quest. Awesome!! Thanks for the random time outs! I guess you didn't want me to stay logged in playing the game anyhow!

Also... I can't figure out how this quest is supposed to work now... maybe you have to gain a bad rep to continue the quest line? Ugh. Sigh. Grumble. Annoyed.

WhimsyDragon · March 2015

And then later I get killed by guards due to trying to explore houses for bookcases and hidden quests... look... I won't bother the ones that require locks to be picked, but I need warning so I can say NO before you stick the guards on me. Seriously ruining my game when this is a constant problem.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Adoryn wrote: »

And then later I get killed by guards due to trying to explore houses for bookcases and hidden quests... look... I won't bother the ones that require locks to be picked, but I need warning so I can say NO before you stick the guards on me. Seriously ruining my game when this is a constant problem.

The big red text saying "Trespass" wasn't enough of a clue?

starkerealm · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

(I'd wager there's a big crossover with the players who want this change) literally don't recognize where my name is from.

Yeah, for what it's worth, I'm not in favor of a system where items that have been stolen share their tag with all identical items in your inventory, there is no way to remove said tags, and attempting to sell any of said items to an owner that matches the tag (which the player is not privy to) will incur a bounty.

Literally this can play out as, "well, this guy just walked into my shop with a piece of bonemold armor that they pried off a dead guard outside. But, I once had a piece of bonemold stolen by someone six years ago. Clearly, this must be the thief. GUARDS!"

Yeah, no. I love Morrowind, but that doesn't mean it's theft and ownership system was elegant, or even really functional. Looking back fondly on a game with vastly different systems at work, and a primary conceit of being able to reload from choices... to the point that it is literally in a tutorial prompt just doesn't work for an MMO where one interface flake out can result in a new player's character being permanently blocked from playing again.

MissBizz · March 2015

Adoryn wrote: »

Another fun example from tonight: Set up as much safety toggles as I can and go questing. I'm sent to a house, which has the quest doorway icon on it's door so I click it like any other quest. The lock mechanism pops up and I'm all confused, unsure if this is part of the quest or not (doesn't matter if this is a noob mistake -- it shouldn't be an issue) and oh, now I'm disreputable in the town I'm trying to quest in because apparently that's the justice system, not the quest. Awesome!! Thanks for the random time outs! I guess you didn't want me to stay logged in playing the game anyhow!

Also... I can't figure out how this quest is supposed to work now... maybe you have to gain a bad rep to continue the quest line? Ugh. Sigh. Grumble. Annoyed.

What quest is this? Post on the forums with details such as the name of the quest, as well send in /feedback. ZOS has moved a few stealable (not a word, but I'm making it) items away from common clicking areas to help people out, they may have just not remembered there is a quest that leads there.

timidobserver · March 2015

Adoryn wrote: »

So just in the past couple hours, the justice system that I've wanted nothing to do with is making a mess out of my game. First, I thought I'd help heal someone who was fighting the werewolf (for the quest) in Daggerfall, not realizing that the reason they were failing was because there was a Daggerfall guard in the mix. Luckily, I died and didn't take the rep hit because of that. Ok, so now I guess I won't help any of my 'allies' which is a pity because some folks who choose to be healers really like helping others when they can, especially newbies. Heck, for all I know, she probably accidentally hit the guard while trying to attack the werewolf.

Shortly afterward, I was trying to click on an npc merchant to check their wares, but accidentally right clicked an item on the cart behind them and stole it... no dialog box confirming or anything and now there's a bounty on my head. Sooo sooo sooo not cool at all for that to happen so easily. I also almost accidentally stole while trying to talk to the banker moments before, but since it was a chest, I was able to cancel. Seriously? Honest players shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and get tagged as a thief when they ARE NOT. The justice system is failing when it works against folks like this, unless you want to say that Tamriel's system is quite crooked and fond of incriminating/framing innocent citizens.

I want to opt out so badly, some sort of toggle, because this really isn't my play style and I'm baffled as to how this got past the test server. Please remedy this, ZOS!

Edit: Title for clarification -- also, I want to point out that I'm not looking to remove the justice system at all, but I do want it to be implemented in a way that honors the choices players make!

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info943-NoAccidentalStealing.html

redwoodtreesprite2 · March 2015

"timidobserver wrote: »

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info943-NoAccidentalStealing.html

Does that also prevent clicking on items not in containers though? I can't tell from the addon thread.
And while I have the addon, I am afraid to test this. I will NOT steal anything!

Also, until the problem with quests in town and AoE and healing is fixed, I also am not going to progress in any questline that creates those situations. This will frustrate my husband I know, as we were planning to continue questing this month. But I won't do any quests that has the chance of making me a murderer in the game.

Moonshadow66 · March 2015

Adoryn wrote: »

(...)
Shortly afterward, I was trying to click on an npc merchant to check their wares, but accidentally right clicked an item on the cart behind them and stole it... no dialog box confirming or anything and now there's a bounty on my head. Sooo sooo sooo not cool at all for that to happen so easily. I also almost accidentally stole while trying to talk to the banker moments before, but since it was a chest, I was able to cancel. Seriously? (...)

This happened to me just yesterday when I tried talking to an NPC/merchant where he moved a bit to the side and I was stealing a weapon from the rack behind/next to him instead. Although it was kinda embarrassing since it happened in the crowded crafting house in Windhelm, I was glad I was outside already and could jump and run directly to the next refuge (I had some other stolen goods in my inventory already, but on purpose, I didn't want to lose them again

) Anyways, this is not good, though. Even the stealthy type of player wouldn't want to steal anything at any time, especially not unwillingly.

The other thing that bothers me a lot is that, apparently, the only door that can be entered when you got caught stealing something is the refuge entrance, so when you're in a house and get caught, it's basically "game over" since you can't leave. The only options are trying to fight back (which I don't want!) or get yourself killed (which I don't want either, but from these two options, I pick this one, and it sucks).

Moonshadow66 · March 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

Adoryn wrote: »

So just in the past couple hours, the justice system that I've wanted nothing to do with is making a mess out of my game. First, I thought I'd help heal someone who was fighting the werewolf (for the quest) in Daggerfall, not realizing that the reason they were failing was because there was a Daggerfall guard in the mix. Luckily, I died and didn't take the rep hit because of that. Ok, so now I guess I won't help any of my 'allies' which is a pity because some folks who choose to be healers really like helping others when they can, especially newbies. Heck, for all I know, she probably accidentally hit the guard while trying to attack the werewolf.

Shortly afterward, I was trying to click on an npc merchant to check their wares, but accidentally right clicked an item on the cart behind them and stole it... no dialog box confirming or anything and now there's a bounty on my head. Sooo sooo sooo not cool at all for that to happen so easily. I also almost accidentally stole while trying to talk to the banker moments before, but since it was a chest, I was able to cancel. Seriously? Honest players shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and get tagged as a thief when they ARE NOT. The justice system is failing when it works against folks like this, unless you want to say that Tamriel's system is quite crooked and fond of incriminating/framing innocent citizens.

I want to opt out so badly, some sort of toggle, because this really isn't my play style and I'm baffled as to how this got past the test server. Please remedy this, ZOS!

Edit: Title for clarification -- also, I want to point out that I'm not looking to remove the justice system at all, but I do want it to be implemented in a way that honors the choices players make!

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info943-NoAccidentalStealing.html

I saw your post after I posted mine, sorry.. but thank you for the link!

WhimsyDragon · March 2015

Tried the add-on and think it works for the stealing aspect! Time will tell.

Also noticed today a lot of situations where one could easily steal from a desk/dresser/etc while trying to click the readable books/scrolls/notes on top. I know some may say 'just be careful' but who wants to be all meticulous about that sort of thing? The game has been out a full year now and suddenly being careful about every move made is not so appetizing $:\$

Merlin13KAGL · March 2015

The occasional accidental pumpkin is really not that big of a deal. Go to a guard, pay the 89 gold and move along.

My personal favorite is when you'll be in a town that has been/is being ravaged, you single handedly save it from the vermin bent on taking all of the resources, but they still get upset if you take the smallest of items.

"Thank you for saving my family from certain doom."

"No, you may not have that apple."

Mikoto · March 2015

How about an 'are you sure?' toggle?

rayeab16_ESO · March 2015

personaly, i WANT to have all containers and items that are owned by NPCs to be uninteractable to me.
i want anyone that passes me by, if i happen to be crouched down in stealth, to be un-pickpocketable
i want any chest or door that is locked (and owned by an NPC) to only show my pointer in red and be unable to click on it.
and when i am outside of a town, and i am using a healing skill, i want it to not heal those with a bounty.

that is what i personaly would want from a justice system opt out.
for me to turn off the ability to steal from owned containers, to steal owned items on display and to not be able to pick pockets or attack guards or even have my healing spells to heal those who have a bounty on their heads.

if that means i can never go to cyrodill, then so be it. i wouldnt actualy go there anyway.

too many people site that 'players want to have the ability to continue stealing without getting caught, just like in the old days.' but actualy, most of us DONT want to steal. it was an option befor (though if the justice system was allways planned, it should not have been. owned constainers should have been st to not be interacted with, so we did not get used to the idea of being able to nick anything we wanted) but now its not, we dont actualy want to continue to nick things.
we just want the option to opt out, like we were told by the game makers, we would be able to do.

instead, we only have the options to not auto-loot stolen items, to not attack innocents.
and to not interact with anything, heal anything or cast any AoE spells because it might auto-target a justice breaker.

how many of you who want an opt out, just want not to have to interact with anything owned by an NPC? not to steal AT ALL?
thats what i want. for my game to not interact with anything stealable that is owned by an NPC.
i do not care if that means half the town becomes un-interactive *for myself only* because everyone lese can continue to loot, pillage and destroy to their hearts content. i do not loot chest except out in the world (when i find them, which is rare even befor the justice system was added) i do not loot crates or sacks or check desks, unless it for a quest.

(oh, and i think that nerevarine1138 is a combo of nerevarine and THX1138, a old and hard to find scifi film that was the first thing george lucas made? love that movie, along with soylent green and omega man and even wierd old zardoz ^^)

i dont want to be able to steal at all. i want to totaly opt out of it.
i dont mind others being able to murder and kill and steal. i just dont want to have to do it myself on most of my chars.
and as to the 'i will just turn it off for a moment' that is easy to fix. 24hour cooldown on opting in-out of the justice system.

i think that those of us who want to fully opt out, will not care if it takes 24hours befor you can opt in again, on any character. right guys?

ZOS_MandiParker · March 2015

We have discussed having a “no theft” type of option in the UI for players who never want to steal owned items. While this option is not consistent with the Elder Scrolls, we do understand some of the frustration with accidental looting, though we consider Justice to be an integral part of Tamriel.

Accidentally stealing a “takeable item” (an owned drink or apple on the table behind the merchant) produces a relative small bounty, and if you are intentionally avoiding criminal activity then you likely won’t suffer many consequences aside from paying a handful of gold that’s appropriate to your level. For an accidental and uncommon pick-up, it is a minor fine and you’re back to your life as an upstanding citizen. This is relatively uncommon, and so it would be a low risk and no reward mode of gameplay for these players.

When you are actually a criminal with an inventory full of stolen goodies and you accidentally pick up an owned apple near a guard rather than speaking with an npc, that’s when you get slammed and your goodies get taken by the guard, and you get hit with a massive bounty. This is a consequence of the system, though – it is a system of high risk and high rewards. Reducing the aspect of risk during the peak moments prior to reward would invalidate much of the current system. The system is part of the world and not just when it’s convenient – that’s how it is in the Elder Scrolls series.

Further, having a “No Theft” toggle would remove interactivity in the world and it would eliminate one of the few non-combat risks that people might encounter. Sometimes even the most careful player will run into a hostile monster by accident (and sometimes they get killed by this), but we do not allow players to toggle off hostility. That would be quite odd, right?

This system is designed to be augmented in the future with more social elements, and we anticipate that players will become more mindful of the laws in Tamriel. Avoiding murder as a toggle was a concession given because it could result in a massive fine and possibly death even if you otherwise play as an upstanding citizen because the bounty is so much higher than simple theft. The option is default Off because we want people to know what their options are in the world before they assume that those options don’t exist. Auto-looting stolen items is also a toggle because we wanted to allow you to specifically confirm your action to steal an individual item, as auto-looting many items at once could be as financially devastating as murder. Both of these opt-outs were specifically designed only to help players avoid the harshest penalties for truly accidental actions. (The unintentional criminal healing issue is a separate thing really, and we’re considering some options for it.)

Justice as a fully integrated system like Champion, Combat, and Crafting. It is critical to future content in the game, and we want players to learn how to live with the underlying rules of the system before introducing heavier mechanics and related content. Having said that, we will still continue to monitor friction points for players and address specific areas of concern, so please continue to report things that cause frustration and we will absolutely look into these issues as we develop the system further.

Oh! Also, if you have a hard time finding recipes or ingredients, then you should definitely spend more time in Delves and Dungeons -- always unowned and usually stuffed with goodies.

AshTal · March 2015

While I find the accidental steal annoying I can live with this.

The one that drives me nuts is when a couple of NPC's are fighting. One on my side one on theirs. I accidently clip the friendly NPC as we move round he then attacks me. So do his friends and I end up with 1000's of gold bounty.

What's worse is that these are dominion soldiers, In the battle field I am rewarded for killing them just because I am playing through Cadwells gold quests I am then charged 1000's of gold when I go back to devon's watch for killing them in self defence.

derpsticks · March 2015

One of the best dev responses ever, thank you. Tell the other devs to comment like this.

eventide03b14a_ESO · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Well, maybe the broke people should get more gold. If they need 80 gold, they will need to sell... let's see... about 4 normal quality items or a stack of foul hides. Or they could just kill a few things. Or... wait for it... they could not steal and incur a bounty if they (inexplicably) don't have the gold to cover it.

Yeah, those newbies that just got out of the wailing prison, that'll show them for not having a job the instant they dropped from the sky into the see. Layabouts all of 'em. Let 'em rot. Right?

Can't do the time. don't do the crime?

There is no "time" it's pay or be executed without a trial.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »

As Fleshreaper said:

"Well, it wasn't always like that in ESO, the game did not ship like that. So, it's an update to the game that changes how it once was. I personally don't care, I love the current system. However, I am also a reasonable and understanding person and can see how the current system could be a problem, especially to those that have handicaps. I look at it like this, having options are going to keep people in the game and bring new people over. Because FORCE someone to play this way, WILL NOT WORK. They will leave and play something else. When enough players feel this way, the game will die."

"I don't see how giving someone the option to play the game the way they want to play it when it has absolutely no bearing what so ever on your play style, is problem. People are different and some people find this feature annoying, (they are NOT trying to take it away from you) they are just trying to enjoy the game with out having to worry about this feature. So, because people disagree with you on an issue that would have absolutely NO effect on you what so ever, let's call them ignorant? Hello kettle, meet pot."

I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.

I've been here since day one, paid $100 like a lot of others for the collectors edition and now this is not the game I bought. I definitely want a opt out option for the so called justice system. You people that like it, fine keep it. I don't and a lot of others don't either. You want to play your way and I want to play mine.

Flame away.

This isn't flaming, although I'm sure some will construe it as such rather than read the argument.

If you haven't found good provisioning recipes, then you aren't looking in the right places. The best way to get purple recipes (speaking as someone with a provisioner who does not steal things) is through the daily writs. Delves are also an excellent source of food containers. And the risk is more or less equal: I can try and steal things undetected in cities, or I can go in to delves and slay my way to legal goods.

And opting out of the Justice System entirely (were that to be an option) wouldn't make the kind of difference you want. You just wouldn't be able to loot anything in cities. Those containers wouldn't be magically made public property.

The main thrust of everyone's opposition to the system seems to be that no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions in-game or suffer any kind of consequences for bad behavior. It's sad that it took this long for the system to get implemented in the game, but it is part of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

You think this game is absolutely perfect just the way it is don't you? You have never once in any thread ever offered a constructive way this game could be enhanced, fixed, or made better. What you do instead is pick apart any criticism whether it effects you in any way or not. What would you call a person who does that?

Attorneyatlawl · March 2015

@ZOS_MandiParker you make a strong case and I applaud writing out the design reasoning here so transparently and thoroughly. For the record, I agree. I as a player have grabbed an item accidentally and gotten a fine. If a guard runs up to me later I pay up and am fine, it was my goof.