I'd be fine with completely toggling off the justice system, but potential for abuse would exist were it not done right.
"Oops! Looks like I got caught stealing something, so lemme just toggle this off..."
The War On ProgressWhat's astounding is the extraordinary amount of effort that is being devoted to resisting the correction of what are obviously some very serious flaws in the current revision of the game.nerevarine1138 wrote: »It's absolutely astounding that arguing in favor of people being responsible for their own actions in-game has resulted in actual accusations of trolling.
The system does not need fixing or tweaking in this way. If you steal something "by mistake," then you need to be less trigger happy.
What possible harm would correcting these problems cause to you?
Seriously: How does this hurt you?
abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »As Fleshreaper said:
"Well, it wasn't always like that in ESO, the game did not ship like that. So, it's an update to the game that changes how it once was. I personally don't care, I love the current system. However, I am also a reasonable and understanding person and can see how the current system could be a problem, especially to those that have handicaps. I look at it like this, having options are going to keep people in the game and bring new people over. Because FORCE someone to play this way, WILL NOT WORK. They will leave and play something else. When enough players feel this way, the game will die."
"I don't see how giving someone the option to play the game the way they want to play it when it has absolutely no bearing what so ever on your play style, is problem. People are different and some people find this feature annoying, (they are NOT trying to take it away from you) they are just trying to enjoy the game with out having to worry about this feature. So, because people disagree with you on an issue that would have absolutely NO effect on you what so ever, let's call them ignorant? Hello kettle, meet pot."
I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.
I've been here since day one, paid $100 like a lot of others for the collectors edition and now this is not the game I bought. I definitely want a opt out option for the so called justice system. You people that like it, fine keep it. I don't and a lot of others don't either. You want to play your way and I want to play mine.
Flame away.
abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »This isn't flaming, although I'm sure some will construe it as such rather than read the argument.
If you haven't found good provisioning recipes, then you aren't looking in the right places. The best way to get purple recipes (speaking as someone with a provisioner who does not steal things) is through the daily writs. Delves are also an excellent source of food containers. And the risk is more or less equal: I can try and steal things undetected in cities, or I can go in to delves and slay my way to legal goods.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »And opting out of the Justice System entirely (were that to be an option) wouldn't make the kind of difference you want. You just wouldn't be able to loot anything in cities. Those containers wouldn't be magically made public property.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »The main thrust of everyone's opposition to the system seems to be that no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions in-game or suffer any kind of consequences for bad behavior. It's sad that it took this long for the system to get implemented in the game, but it is part of the Elder Scrolls Universe.
Even though it derails the topic a bit, I want to put in my 2 cents on the "less supply of provisioning ingredients and/or recipes" discussion: Maybe that's the RNG messing with my perception, but I have never ever before found so many recipes like since introduction of the justice system.
starkerealm wrote: »Even though it derails the topic a bit, I want to put in my 2 cents on the "less supply of provisioning ingredients and/or recipes" discussion: Maybe that's the RNG messing with my perception, but I have never ever before found so many recipes like since introduction of the justice system.
It's not just you. Recipes do seem to be more common since 1.6. You can't farm out cities the way you used to, but on a per container rate? It does seem to be better. Also, unowned furniture seems to be a goldmine now.
As to nereva-whatnot and the original topic of this thread, the beautiful thing is that we don't even need to argue with him. The point was made, ZOS needs to make the call whether to change something or not. I would like to make reference to that one famous but awful song of Taylor Swift. You all know which one I mean.
And then later I get killed by guards due to trying to explore houses for bookcases and hidden quests... look... I won't bother the ones that require locks to be picked, but I need warning so I can say NO before you stick the guards on me. Seriously ruining my game when this is a constant problem.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »(I'd wager there's a big crossover with the players who want this change) literally don't recognize where my name is from.
Another fun example from tonight: Set up as much safety toggles as I can and go questing. I'm sent to a house, which has the quest doorway icon on it's door so I click it like any other quest. The lock mechanism pops up and I'm all confused, unsure if this is part of the quest or not (doesn't matter if this is a noob mistake -- it shouldn't be an issue) and oh, now I'm disreputable in the town I'm trying to quest in because apparently that's the justice system, not the quest. Awesome!! Thanks for the random time outs! I guess you didn't want me to stay logged in playing the game anyhow!
Also... I can't figure out how this quest is supposed to work now... maybe you have to gain a bad rep to continue the quest line? Ugh. Sigh. Grumble. Annoyed.
So just in the past couple hours, the justice system that I've wanted nothing to do with is making a mess out of my game. First, I thought I'd help heal someone who was fighting the werewolf (for the quest) in Daggerfall, not realizing that the reason they were failing was because there was a Daggerfall guard in the mix. Luckily, I died and didn't take the rep hit because of that. Ok, so now I guess I won't help any of my 'allies' which is a pity because some folks who choose to be healers really like helping others when they can, especially newbies. Heck, for all I know, she probably accidentally hit the guard while trying to attack the werewolf.
Shortly afterward, I was trying to click on an npc merchant to check their wares, but accidentally right clicked an item on the cart behind them and stole it... no dialog box confirming or anything and now there's a bounty on my head. Sooo sooo sooo not cool at all for that to happen so easily. I also almost accidentally stole while trying to talk to the banker moments before, but since it was a chest, I was able to cancel. Seriously? Honest players shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and get tagged as a thief when they ARE NOT. The justice system is failing when it works against folks like this, unless you want to say that Tamriel's system is quite crooked and fond of incriminating/framing innocent citizens.
I want to opt out so badly, some sort of toggle, because this really isn't my play style and I'm baffled as to how this got past the test server. Please remedy this, ZOS!
Edit: Title for clarification -- also, I want to point out that I'm not looking to remove the justice system at all, but I do want it to be implemented in a way that honors the choices players make!
"timidobserver wrote: »
(...)
Shortly afterward, I was trying to click on an npc merchant to check their wares, but accidentally right clicked an item on the cart behind them and stole it... no dialog box confirming or anything and now there's a bounty on my head. Sooo sooo sooo not cool at all for that to happen so easily. I also almost accidentally stole while trying to talk to the banker moments before, but since it was a chest, I was able to cancel. Seriously? (...)
timidobserver wrote: »So just in the past couple hours, the justice system that I've wanted nothing to do with is making a mess out of my game. First, I thought I'd help heal someone who was fighting the werewolf (for the quest) in Daggerfall, not realizing that the reason they were failing was because there was a Daggerfall guard in the mix. Luckily, I died and didn't take the rep hit because of that. Ok, so now I guess I won't help any of my 'allies' which is a pity because some folks who choose to be healers really like helping others when they can, especially newbies. Heck, for all I know, she probably accidentally hit the guard while trying to attack the werewolf.
Shortly afterward, I was trying to click on an npc merchant to check their wares, but accidentally right clicked an item on the cart behind them and stole it... no dialog box confirming or anything and now there's a bounty on my head. Sooo sooo sooo not cool at all for that to happen so easily. I also almost accidentally stole while trying to talk to the banker moments before, but since it was a chest, I was able to cancel. Seriously? Honest players shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and get tagged as a thief when they ARE NOT. The justice system is failing when it works against folks like this, unless you want to say that Tamriel's system is quite crooked and fond of incriminating/framing innocent citizens.
I want to opt out so badly, some sort of toggle, because this really isn't my play style and I'm baffled as to how this got past the test server. Please remedy this, ZOS!
Edit: Title for clarification -- also, I want to point out that I'm not looking to remove the justice system at all, but I do want it to be implemented in a way that honors the choices players make!
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info943-NoAccidentalStealing.html
There is no "time" it's pay or be executed without a trial.Can't do the time. don't do the crime?starkerealm wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Well, maybe the broke people should get more gold. If they need 80 gold, they will need to sell... let's see... about 4 normal quality items or a stack of foul hides. Or they could just kill a few things. Or... wait for it... they could not steal and incur a bounty if they (inexplicably) don't have the gold to cover it.
Yeah, those newbies that just got out of the wailing prison, that'll show them for not having a job the instant they dropped from the sky into the see. Layabouts all of 'em. Let 'em rot. Right?
You think this game is absolutely perfect just the way it is don't you? You have never once in any thread ever offered a constructive way this game could be enhanced, fixed, or made better. What you do instead is pick apart any criticism whether it effects you in any way or not. What would you call a person who does that?nerevarine1138 wrote: »abuniffpreub18_ESO wrote: »As Fleshreaper said:
"Well, it wasn't always like that in ESO, the game did not ship like that. So, it's an update to the game that changes how it once was. I personally don't care, I love the current system. However, I am also a reasonable and understanding person and can see how the current system could be a problem, especially to those that have handicaps. I look at it like this, having options are going to keep people in the game and bring new people over. Because FORCE someone to play this way, WILL NOT WORK. They will leave and play something else. When enough players feel this way, the game will die."
"I don't see how giving someone the option to play the game the way they want to play it when it has absolutely no bearing what so ever on your play style, is problem. People are different and some people find this feature annoying, (they are NOT trying to take it away from you) they are just trying to enjoy the game with out having to worry about this feature. So, because people disagree with you on an issue that would have absolutely NO effect on you what so ever, let's call them ignorant? Hello kettle, meet pot."
I agree with Fleshreaper 100%. I used to get a lot of recipes for my provisioner, not any more. I can't even find them for sale anywhere. People say to look outside the cities for them, yeah right I think I found one low level recipe doing that.
I've been here since day one, paid $100 like a lot of others for the collectors edition and now this is not the game I bought. I definitely want a opt out option for the so called justice system. You people that like it, fine keep it. I don't and a lot of others don't either. You want to play your way and I want to play mine.
Flame away.
This isn't flaming, although I'm sure some will construe it as such rather than read the argument.
If you haven't found good provisioning recipes, then you aren't looking in the right places. The best way to get purple recipes (speaking as someone with a provisioner who does not steal things) is through the daily writs. Delves are also an excellent source of food containers. And the risk is more or less equal: I can try and steal things undetected in cities, or I can go in to delves and slay my way to legal goods.
And opting out of the Justice System entirely (were that to be an option) wouldn't make the kind of difference you want. You just wouldn't be able to loot anything in cities. Those containers wouldn't be magically made public property.
The main thrust of everyone's opposition to the system seems to be that no one wants to take personal responsibility for their actions in-game or suffer any kind of consequences for bad behavior. It's sad that it took this long for the system to get implemented in the game, but it is part of the Elder Scrolls Universe.