I take offence at Molag Bal being called god of schemes. Boethiah is Prince of Plots. They wussified Fire Stone's epithets, and even had Meridia call him the wrong name!
/lore ragenerd off
Well Thurn explains that the Amulet of Kings Will grand you power to go toe to toe and that power needed sacrifice. He didn't know you would become a demigod or an acarat of akatosh.
Huh?? They make the player able to wear the Amulet of Kings??? Which can _only_ be worn by one that is dragonborn, which there is absolutely no sign that the Soulless One is???
BugCollector wrote: »And it just CAN NOT BE DONE! A Daedric Prince in his own realm is unbeatable, infused with the power of divines or not! He can change his realm how he wants it to be. In his own realm, nothing is impossible. He could crush the soulless one just with the power of his mind. I'm just leaving this out of my lore. I'll pretend it didn't happen.
BugCollector wrote: »
1. Deadric Princes are more akin to powerful demigods than true gods. While Akatosh is one of the full on Original Gods (plus being the aspect of time would be a big help).
1. Deadric Princes are more akin to powerful demigods than true gods. While Akatosh is one of the full on Original Gods (plus being the aspect of time would be a big help).
This.
The Aedra are akin to actual gods and are considerably more powerful than the Daedra; both of whom pale in power and scope to Anuiel and Sithis.
Daedra are just really overblown Dremora when it comes right down to it.
Perhaps I'm wrong but it would seem that their weakening was temporary as on at least two occassions: the ending of ESO's main storyline and the ending of Oblivion's storyline, Akatosh's power was used to defeat the Daedric lords Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon.AlexDougherty wrote: »But the Aedra invested their strength into creating the universe, which weakened them. You want proof, Trinimac was one of the strongest Aedra, Boethiah not only thrashed him, but also ate him, which is how Malacath/Mauloch was born (technically he isn't an Daedra BTW).
Perhaps I'm wrong but it would seem that their weakening was temporary as on at least two occassions: the ending of ESO's main storyline and the ending of Oblivion's storyline, Akatosh's power was used to defeat the Daedric lords Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon.AlexDougherty wrote: »But the Aedra invested their strength into creating the universe, which weakened them. You want proof, Trinimac was one of the strongest Aedra, Boethiah not only thrashed him, but also ate him, which is how Malacath/Mauloch was born (technically he isn't an Daedra BTW).
At the very least Akatosh is still on par with the Daedra.
Eh maybe, but something like this always comes off as rather lazy, Mary Sueish writing; I would hope, given the length of time of The Elder Scrolls' existence, the number of lore writers it's passed through, that the Daedra stopped being cheaply written characters.Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »I can only assume this indeed is what he intended all along as part of an overarching scheme mortals cannot even hope to glimpse.
Perhaps I'm wrong but it would seem that their weakening was temporary as on at least two occassions: the ending of ESO's main storyline and the ending of Oblivion's storyline, Akatosh's power was used to defeat the Daedric lords Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon.AlexDougherty wrote: »But the Aedra invested their strength into creating the universe, which weakened them. You want proof, Trinimac was one of the strongest Aedra, Boethiah not only thrashed him, but also ate him, which is how Malacath/Mauloch was born (technically he isn't an Daedra BTW).
At the very least Akatosh is still on par with the Daedra.
The problem with your post is that it suggests that ESO follows AD&D rules when it doesn't. It's like quoting the Quran for guidance on Christian doctrine.malikwalker_ESO wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »
Well the way i see it from an AD&D perspective, Molag Bal's portfolio says one of his spheres is the God of Schemes. Meridia abided by the rules of engagement so to speak by setting up a chance for some outside entity to openly revolt against Molag Bal, a scheme if you will. That was her getting her foot in the door.
Then as one of Molag Bal's victims continually opposed him and continually won against his will, it finally lead to open warfare between the Master and that insurgent victim. Then Meridia could throw her weight into the ring through the main character, having not once directly opposed Molag Bal in his own realm.
It is a bit convoluted, i'll give you that, but it makes perfect sense to me looking at it through the AD&D filter. I'd suggest reading the Forgotten Realms series The Avatar Trilogy and the follow-up Prince of Lies if you get the chance. Great read and goes into depth concerning the whole portfolio concept in AD&D.
Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »as for Molag Bal in ESO...I can only assume this indeed is what he intended all along as part of an overarching scheme mortals cannot even hope to glimpse.
AlexDougherty wrote: »Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »as for Molag Bal in ESO...I can only assume this indeed is what he intended all along as part of an overarching scheme mortals cannot even hope to glimpse.
Yes, Meridia pretty much says that, we can only guess how it's to his advantage though.
I doubt his utter defeat with this scheme was to his advantage so much as simply not a setback since he's no more than back to square one. He lost tens of thousands of souls during the battle, the planar meld/vortex is ended, dozens of his nirn-based minions are dead/being tortured by his Coldharbour minions, Meridias city is still in Coldharbour; he has other plans no doubt, but I doubt this defeat worked in his favor.
AlexDougherty wrote: »Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »as for Molag Bal in ESO...I can only assume this indeed is what he intended all along as part of an overarching scheme mortals cannot even hope to glimpse.
Yes, Meridia pretty much says that, we can only guess how it's to his advantage though.
I doubt his utter defeat with this scheme was to his advantage so much as simply not a setback since he's no more than back to square one. He lost tens of thousands of souls during the battle, the planar meld/vortex is ended, dozens of his nirn-based minions are dead/being tortured by his Coldharbour minions, Meridias city is still in Coldharbour; he has other plans no doubt, but I doubt this defeat worked in his favor.
Merida's speech(and correct me if I missed something because I don't remember much of it) focused more on the fact that most of the other daedra all have their own plans for Nirn. Only a couple of them are true conquerors like Molag or Mehrunes but they all enjoy the influence they wield over mortals.
AlexDougherty wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »as for Molag Bal in ESO...I can only assume this indeed is what he intended all along as part of an overarching scheme mortals cannot even hope to glimpse.
Yes, Meridia pretty much says that, we can only guess how it's to his advantage though.
I doubt his utter defeat with this scheme was to his advantage so much as simply not a setback since he's no more than back to square one. He lost tens of thousands of souls during the battle, the planar meld/vortex is ended, dozens of his nirn-based minions are dead/being tortured by his Coldharbour minions, Meridias city is still in Coldharbour; he has other plans no doubt, but I doubt this defeat worked in his favor.
Merida's speech(and correct me if I missed something because I don't remember much of it) focused more on the fact that most of the other daedra all have their own plans for Nirn. Only a couple of them are true conquerors like Molag or Mehrunes but they all enjoy the influence they wield over mortals.
Well Meridia's speech is a weird one, you can read all sorts into it, yes she did say the other Daedra were now interested in you (and Nirn too), but she also said that this outcome was in many ways to Molag Bals advantage.
You didn't defeat Molag Bal at all.You din not even set him back . That whole fight was a joke, he made it appear that you won for some reason incomprehensible to dumb mortals. It's like letting your kid brother beat you at some stupid video game just for fun.
This.
Maybe that soul we got back isn't as clean as we'd like it to be. Must not apply soulstone directly to the forehead.
You're onto something there, I knew there was more but didn't even consider that! I mean how else that soul still sticking around with us after we are iced over and over again!
Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »
Well the way i see it from an AD&D perspective, Molag Bal's portfolio says one of his spheres is the God of Schemes. Meridia abided by the rules of engagement so to speak by setting up a chance for some outside entity to openly revolt against Molag Bal, a scheme if you will. That was her getting her foot in the door.
Then as one of Molag Bal's victims continually opposed him and continually won against his will, it finally lead to open warfare between the Master and that insurgent victim. Then Meridia could throw her weight into the ring through the main character, having not once directly opposed Molag Bal in his own realm.
It is a bit convoluted, i'll give you that, but it makes perfect sense to me looking at it through the AD&D filter. I'd suggest reading the Forgotten Realms series The Avatar Trilogy and the follow-up Prince of Lies if you get the chance. Great read and goes into depth concerning the whole portfolio concept in AD&D.