Why Molag, why? SPOILERS ENDING!

BugCollector

The final battle with Molag Bal was well done. You get some divine juice and you're able to fight him. I get it.

What I don't get is, why oh why are you able to defeat a Daedric Prince in his OWN REALM? Divine juice or not, this is ridiculous...

Andy22

BugCollector wrote: »

The final battle with Molag Bal was well done. You get some divine juice and you're able to fight him. I get it.

What I don't get is, why oh why are you able to defeat a Daedric Prince in his OWN REALM? Divine juice or not, this is ridiculous...

Not only that, but ofc the "Daedric Prince" is shrinked to human size, since they cant implement God of War gameplay. I'd rather have some more of those half crappy "quicktime" events to kill/ban him, than what i actually did.

My "great" end-fight looked like this:
1) Noticing that your normal "light" attacks got crazy powerfully.
2) Switching to resto-staff and just heal regen + use light attacks.
3) .... beat the "mighty" Daedric Prince, with resto staff light attacks in 5 minutes.

This was so crappy, boring and out of context that it was a big disappointment for me.

BugCollector

Andy22 wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

The final battle with Molag Bal was well done. You get some divine juice and you're able to fight him. I get it.

What I don't get is, why oh why are you able to defeat a Daedric Prince in his OWN REALM? Divine juice or not, this is ridiculous...

Not only that, but ofc the "Daedric Prince" is shrinked to human size, since they cant implement God of War gameplay. I'd rather have some more of those half crappy "quicktime" events to kill/ban him, than what i actually did.

My "great" end-fight looked like this:
1) Noticing that your normal "light" attacks got crazy powerfully.
2) Switching to resto-staff and just heal regen + use light attacks.
3) .... beat the "mighty" Daedric Prince, with resto staff light attacks in 5 minutes.

This was so crappy, boring and out of context that it was a big disappointment for me.

And it just CAN NOT BE DONE! A Daedric Prince in his own realm is unbeatable, infused with the power of divines or not! He can change his realm how he wants it to be. In his own realm, nothing is impossible. He could crush the soulless one just with the power of his mind. I'm just leaving this out of my lore. I'll pretend it didn't happen.

Spriggen

Well Thurn explains that the Amulet of Kings Will grand you power to go toe to toe and that power needed sacrifice. He didn't know you would become a demigod or an acarat of akatosh.

I agree though with most of the replies in this thread that Molag could've crushed the player with a thought. I would have let Molags plan continue, that's just me.

Rayadrel

I'm sorry, was Jyggalag unbeatable in his own realm? No? Then why would Molag Bal be?

BugCollector

Rayadrel wrote: »

I'm sorry, was Jyggalag unbeatable in his own realm? No? Then why would Molag Bal be?

You are missing something here.
The realm was owned by BOTH Jyggalag and Sheogorath, and since the player became Sheogorath, he was able to defeat Jyggalag.

SouthernDiscomfort

What annoys me more than the fact that you're going toe to toe with a daedric prince is that once you've finished the main story there's still all the dark anchors littering Tamriel which even if you argue that is for the sake of gameplay, it still underlines a big hole in the story's foundation.
I really want to say that I like the story but it's things like this that leaves a less than desirable taste in my mouth. God knows what the storyline for Craglorn will be like if that was the main story for the game.

Spiritreaver_ESO

BugCollector wrote: »

Rayadrel wrote: »

I'm sorry, was Jyggalag unbeatable in his own realm? No? Then why would Molag Bal be?

You are missing something here.
The realm was owned by BOTH Jyggalag and Sheogorath, and since the player became Sheogorath, he was able to defeat Jyggalag.

Well the way i see it from an AD&D perspective, Molag Bal's portfolio says one of his spheres is the God of Schemes. Meridia abided by the rules of engagement so to speak by setting up a chance for some outside entity to openly revolt against Molag Bal, a scheme if you will. That was her getting her foot in the door.

Then as one of Molag Bal's victims continually opposed him and continually won against his will, it finally lead to open warfare between the Master and that insurgent victim. Then Meridia could throw her weight into the ring through the main character, having not once directly opposed Molag Bal in his own realm.

It is a bit convoluted, i'll give you that, but it makes perfect sense to me looking at it through the AD&D filter. I'd suggest reading the Forgotten Realms series The Avatar Trilogy and the follow-up Prince of Lies if you get the chance. Great read and goes into depth concerning the whole portfolio concept in AD&D.

Xaei

SouthernDiscomfort wrote: »

What annoys me more than the fact that you're going toe to toe with a daedric prince is that once you've finished the main story there's still all the dark anchors littering Tamriel which even if you argue that is for the sake of gameplay, it still underlines a big hole in the story's foundation.
I really want to say that I like the story but it's things like this that leaves a less than desirable taste in my mouth. God knows what the storyline for Craglorn will be like if that was the main story for the game.

I would rather not have more phasing. And taking them out after you kill Molag Bal would be massively game breaking.

What if you didn't get all the anchors before you did the quest? Does that mean they're lost completely to you forever?

Xaei

SouthernDiscomfort wrote: »

What annoys me more than the fact that you're going toe to toe with a daedric prince is that once you've finished the main story there's still all the dark anchors littering Tamriel which even if you argue that is for the sake of gameplay, it still underlines a big hole in the story's foundation.
I really want to say that I like the story but it's things like this that leaves a less than desirable taste in my mouth. God knows what the storyline for Craglorn will be like if that was the main story for the game.

I would rather not have more phasing. And taking them out after you kill Molag Bal would be massively game breaking.

What if you didn't get all the anchors before you did the quest? Does that mean they're lost completely to you forever?

Thechemicals

guess you guys missed that quest that expains why.

SouthernDiscomfort

Xaei wrote: »

I would rather not have more phasing. And taking them out after you kill Molag Bal would be massively game breaking.

What if you didn't get all the anchors before you did the quest? Does that mean they're lost completely to you forever?

What would it matter if you didn't destroy all the baby ones? You don't gain anything in the long term for breaking them save the achievements which do bugger all, and they could have done alternative situations instead of dark anchors, even in TESO they included a nod to Skyrim's radiant NPC events such as bandits attacking a mercenary and a peddler.
But like I said, this underlines the flaw in the decision to include the anchors as a general world environment event instead of tying it in with a quest line such as The Fighters' Guild. It's not sustainable in the main plot of the game and they haven't addressed it with an explanation, although I doubt it would give us a good explanation anyway.

Let's forget that massive one looming over the White-Gold Tower, shall we?

Xaei

^ achievements may not matter for you, but it matters a heck load to some.

The thing you need to come to accept about MMORPGs is that sometimes, things just won't fit in perfectly. Personally, I'd rather have the archors there than not having them because although they add to group-play in the game, which there is so little of.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Rayadrel wrote: »

I'm sorry, was Jyggalag unbeatable in his own realm? No? Then why would Molag Bal be?

Because it was actually Sheogorath's realm, and since he is the opposite of Jyggalag, Jyggalag would probably be even weaker than normal. not to mention that he had JUST been reborn, so he was probably not up to full strength.

Molag Bal was at full strength, in his own realm, with HUNDREDS OF MINIONS. And yet, somehow, we was vanquished by some random hero with a divine blessing DESPITE the divines being much less powerful than the Daedric Princes (because the divines created tamriel).

Sleepwalker

Andy22 wrote: »

My "great" end-fight looked like this:
1) Noticing that your normal "light" attacks got crazy powerfully.
2) Switching to resto-staff and just heal regen + use light attacks.
3) .... beat the "mighty" Daedric Prince, with resto staff light attacks in 5 minutes.

This was so crappy, boring and out of context that it was a big disappointment for me.

You chose to fight him with nothing but light attacks. You made it crappy and boring. (And I'm not sure the term "out-of-context" means what you think it means...)

I'll agree that the fight was not at all difficult, but I did experience some butt-puckering moments. One of which was when I decided to see how much damage his heavy attack would do. The other was when the eight or ten titan dragons landed. I mean... that doesn't happen anywhere else. Definitely easy to let an "Oh ***!" slip before you realize that you are massively stronger than they are.

In the end, I believe both Molag Bal and Meridia commented that he was not defeated in the least, but merely set back. As an addition, we're told that we got the attention of the other Daedric princes as well. Doesn't sound at all like we saved any realm, but merely stalled something greater.

TL:DR version - These complaints are silly. The end fight and its aftermath were actually quite logical and practical (for future expansions' sake especially.)

Moderator Edit: Removed cursing.

Laura

people will complain about anything. Literally everyone in my guild was talking about how awesome the end fight was. its certainly better than any end fight in any other elder scrolls that's for sure.

I absolutely agree with @Sleepwalker you MADE it boring with your light attacks. you didn't KILL him (you can not kill a daedric prince) and they explained it in a perfectly lore friendly way.

SexyVette07

Yes, Meridia said you severely wounded him, and it would be quite a long time until he regained his strength. He could still conceivably send dark anchors from his realm since it empowers him, despite him being weakened.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Laura wrote: »

people will complain about anything. Literally everyone in my guild was talking about how awesome the end fight was. its certainly better than any end fight in any other elder scrolls that's for sure.

I absolutely agree with @Sleepwalker you MADE it boring with your light attacks. you didn't KILL him (you can not kill a daedric prince) and they explained it in a perfectly lore friendly way.

What?! He "made it boring" by using the most effective method to kill an enemy? Please, explain to me how that works.

Sleepwalker

By simplifying his entire arsenal of 10 Skills, 2 ultimates, a combination of light and heavy attacks, and stamina based manuevers to ONLY light attacks with the resto staff and one HoT. Why I had to explain that this method is more boring is beyond me...

And if you're truly about to argue that light attacks with the lowest DPS weapon on the game is the MOST effective way to defeat this boss, or any boss for that matter, you belong in a padded room or under a bridge friend.

PBpsy

You didn't defeat Molag Bal at all.You din not even set him back . That whole fight was a joke, he made it appear that you won for some reason incomprehensible to dumb mortals. It's like letting your kid brother beat you at some stupid video game just for fun.

SouthernDiscomfort

Xaei wrote: »

^ achievements may not matter for you, but it matters a heck load to some.

The thing you need to come to accept about MMORPGs is that sometimes, things just won't fit in perfectly. Personally, I'd rather have the archors there than not having them because although they add to group-play in the game, which there is so little of.

I reject that statement; if the hole is circular, you don't try to force a square peg to make the fit. Just because it's an MMO it doesn't make it acceptable to have major story flaws.

I don't have to accept anything, it's the story designers who need to realise when there's fractures in their own story and mend it.

Edit: I say "mend" it, they can't really; in this case, that poor excuse for a world event is out there now so there's nothing that can be done about it but take notes on what not to do next time.
I really want to like this game and their story but they make it so damn hard at times! If they can't improve their act in the future stories they wish to implement then I'm going to have to forget about this game entirely and join the group of people who believe this is not a TES game worthy of investing time in.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Sleepwalker wrote: »

By simplifying his entire arsenal of 10 Skills, 2 ultimates, a combination of light and heavy attacks, and stamina based manuevers to ONLY light attacks with the resto staff and one HoT. Why I had to explain that this method is more boring is beyond me...

And if you're truly about to argue that light attacks with the lowest DPS weapon on the game is the MOST effective way to defeat this boss, or any boss for that matter, you belong in a padded room or under a bridge friend.

Now, now. No need to be a condescending butthole with that last paragraph.

If you give a player a way to do something, it should be considered a part of the game. In this case, having this boring option be better than the other options at his disposal that you deem more interesting, means that the bossfight is being made boring FOR HIM.

gcalex5

I can see why this is iffy lorewise to be able to beat him in his own realm but I can see past that....however the mechanics of the fight being dodge the balls and get out of his cone attack seemed a bit underwhelming. So my only complaint there is that they could have added several new mechanics to make the final battle for ESO vanilla to be a little more exciting

Sleepwalker

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Sleepwalker wrote: »

By simplifying his entire arsenal of 10 Skills, 2 ultimates, a combination of light and heavy attacks, and stamina based manuevers to ONLY light attacks with the resto staff and one HoT. Why I had to explain that this method is more boring is beyond me...

And if you're truly about to argue that light attacks with the lowest DPS weapon on the game is the MOST effective way to defeat this boss, or any boss for that matter, you belong in a padded room or under a bridge friend.

Now, now. No need to be a condescending butthole with that last paragraph.

If you give a player a way to do something, it should be considered a part of the game. In this case, having this boring option be better than the other options at his disposal that you deem more interesting, means that the bossfight is being made boring FOR HIM.

We are in agreement. I didn't say he shouldn't have done it. I said he made it boring by doing it... Why did you comment at all? I'm going with the "under the bridge" theory now.

I do go the "condescending butthole" route sometimes, sure. Hard not to when someone says something so ridiculous. Don't worry, you'll heal.

UnderKingRhun

um, was i the only one who noticed that he seemed kinda happy the vestige won? i walked away from the fight thinking " damn, i played right into his scheming slimy hands"

KenjiJU

PBpsy wrote: »

You didn't defeat Molag Bal at all.You din not even set him back . That whole fight was a joke, he made it appear that you won for some reason incomprehensible to dumb mortals. It's like letting your kid brother beat you at some stupid video game just for fun.

This.

Maybe that soul we got back isn't as clean as we'd like it to be. Must not apply soulstone directly to the forehead.

Sleepwalker

KenjiJU wrote: »

This.

Maybe that soul we got back isn't as clean as we'd like it to be. Must not apply soulstone directly to the forehead.

Oooh, I like the way you think. Didn't even hesitate when grabbing that soul, and I probably should have. Well played, God of Schemes.

gcalex5

KenjiJU wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

You didn't defeat Molag Bal at all.You din not even set him back . That whole fight was a joke, he made it appear that you won for some reason incomprehensible to dumb mortals. It's like letting your kid brother beat you at some stupid video game just for fun.

This.

Maybe that soul we got back isn't as clean as we'd like it to be. Must not apply soulstone directly to the forehead.

You're onto something there, I knew there was more but didn't even consider that! I mean how else that soul still sticking around with us after we are iced over and over again!

Sakiri

I take offence at Molag Bal being called god of schemes. Boethiah is Prince of Plots. They wussified Fire Stone's epithets, and even had Meridia call him the wrong name!

/lore ragenerd off

Sakiri

KenjiJU wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

You didn't defeat Molag Bal at all.You din not even set him back . That whole fight was a joke, he made it appear that you won for some reason incomprehensible to dumb mortals. It's like letting your kid brother beat you at some stupid video game just for fun.

This.

Maybe that soul we got back isn't as clean as we'd like it to be. Must not apply soulstone directly to the forehead.

Its okay, Aidan.

AngryNord

Spriggen wrote: »

Well Thurn explains that the Amulet of Kings Will grand you power to go toe to toe and that power needed sacrifice. He didn't know you would become a demigod or an acarat of akatosh.

Huh?? They make the player able to wear the Amulet of Kings??? Which can _only_ be worn by one that is dragonborn, which there is absolutely no sign that the Soulless One is???