This is the true P2W for you ppl complaiming about xp pot !!!

dido9880ub17_ESO · March 2015

Guys look.... the cash shop is here. I hoped it would not come to it but it has. Once that happens XP potions and the like are inevitable. If you do not like them then do not buy them. Crying and arguing about them is pointless. ESO was developed to make money.

I hope that they will not start to sell true character upgrades in the store, but something like XP potions are harmless. They allow people who have more money and less time to enjoy the game at the same level as the people who have more time and less money. It was good to see that they changed the other potions available in the store to be slightly less powerful than crafted potions.

minnisville · March 2015

Maybe some one can explain something to me..I may be missing some vital assessment to XP....

When you reach, lets say lvl 20 normal, is there not other lvl 20's out there to "compete" with?
Is the only people you are wanting to "compete" with lvl 50 Vet's?
Is there no one your lvl to compete with, because they all used xp pots to reach the highest vet rank?

There should be plenty of people with your xp/rank/lvl to "compete" with. It is anyone else fault if YOU want to compete with the big dogs. Thats on you.
But, I guess this is more of a PVP issue than anything else. So maybe they should make you have to choose, when making a toon, whether or not you are going for pvp or pve. If you choose pvp, then no pots..Would that make pvp'ers happy?...

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

As someone who gets paid a heap of money but still gets a heap of time off I am loling so hard. People actually think that hardcore players like me who are stacked in cash irl wont abuse the hell out of this haha?!

I get 1cp with a good group grinding a certain way every 9-12 minutes. With potions we are going to lol so hard to OP town.

I suck at pvp but I will still own people with this potion training me up hahaha.... and people are still trying to defend it hahahaha....

Ahhhh cant wait until people are in zone saying "LFM for x trial 300+ cp or no invite" and people are crying about that instead on the forums like they couldnt see it coming....

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol

nimander99 · March 2015

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Great upload! Games like Archeage and Neverwinter were the dev say "you can earn everything in game" then make the most epic items and enchants un-lockable at .001% is a total joke.

What people NEED to understand is that these games were developed exactly as they were intended! They created horridly p2w games to appeal ONLY to the whales and then call them f2p to bring in thousands of suckers for their whales to kill.

ESO was never developed for the above situation. It was made for the fans of the series.

Eso was made for money. How people stand up for the company choices from ZoS is beyond me.

LOL!!!!!!!! OMG FACEPALM

I NEVER suggested ESO was a benevolent service free for all peace loving hippies of the world

Ofc ESO was made for money as you so succinctly put it nor am I standing up for ZOS and I challenge you to prove that ESO in fact wasnt made for fans of the series!

My point was and ill reiterate, those games i mentioned were developed TO BE pay too win where as ESO has been developed to MAKE MONEY but not give an edge to those who want to buy said edge. ESO would have gone full free too play if ZOS wanted to create a pay too win environment, and i made that point with f2p bringing in suckers for whales too kill.

Ninrod86 · March 2015

It's very easy for Zenimax to end this drama once and for all ...

Patch note:

Xp potion only increase the xp for normal and veteran levels .

/fixed

krseb17_ESO · March 2015

Nah its really a non-issue in PVP too as all three sides should have equal amount of maxers with lots of CP and folks with less CP.

For PVE? there wont be any new "raids" as things are looking out now and new PVE content are to be scaled to the players anyway.

So the scenario in which XP pots will make a difference is when you come up against an equal number of players in Cyro that have played for exactly the same amount of time as your group but where one of the groups used XP pots and the other did not. And the groups has to be small enough for coordination and tactic not being a factor.

So really, when you go up 1v1 or 2v2 with a person with exact same amount of /played and no one interferes and both are of equal skill and no one gets the jump on the other player then yes, XP pots might make a small difference for the outcome. How many times has this scenario happened to you so far?

Takhistis · March 2015

Isn't like the best example of P2W or even P2survive Clash of Clans?

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

Ninrod86 wrote: »

It's very easy for Zenimax to end this drama once and for all ...

Patch note:

Xp potion only increase the xp for normal and veteran levels .

/fixed

then they make far less money. In the end they are doing it, does not mean it is a good idea.

Game is dumb.

Moiskormoimi · March 2015

Ace_SiN wrote: »

That's one of my favorite vids of all time and he's a funny streamer. I like when he says "you lose cause you no pay". ArcheAge is P2W at its finest. Sure you can get everything by in game means, but the RNG to get the high tier gear is less than 1% per piece(and we're talking hundreds of thousands to millions of gold easy).

I had a blast in ArcheAge until the whales took over. Watching the bad PvPers(people that were stomped before they were geared) be able to take on 20+ by themselves turned the game into a crapfest.

I had a blast in beta, when the company actually cared. Shame really, because aside from the lack of decent pve, the game is really fun.

nimander99 · March 2015

Xabien wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Great upload! Games like Archeage and Neverwinter were the dev say "you can earn everything in game" then make the most epic items and enchants un-lockable at .001% is a total joke.

What people NEED to understand is that these games were developed exactly as they were intended! They created horridly p2w games to appeal ONLY to the whales and then call them f2p to bring in thousands of suckers for their whales to kill.

ESO was never developed for the above situation. It was made for the fans of the series.

Actually Archeage was made as a sub mmo.

The potion is pay to win, it simply is, and if players blindly accept it, how long do you think it'll be before other, more powerful items start making their way into the store? This is the test balloon, and you guys are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

Archeage does have a patron sub yes, but even that patron sub doesnt allow you to be on an equal footing with cash shop users! The patron sub is just another ruse and still means you are a sucker and gonna get smashed by the real cash shop whales. Jake Song made this mmo to appeal to the pvp whales.
I challenge you to point to a single mmo that doesn't have an exp boost.

ckovarovicb14_ESO · March 2015

Tandor wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Eso was made for money. How people stand up for the company choices from ZoS is beyond me.

Of course ESO was made for money. ZOS are a business not a philanthropic charity - a distinction usually lost on the "entitlement" generation of freeloaders (not that I'm throwing that label at anyone here).

This is it right here. It was made to earn money. They have given you all something for free and you *** because it isnt exactly equal to something that people pay for. Should subs not get the extra exp gain now? The only reason I am not for free to play models is because of all the entitled whiners in these games. Added xp is nothing you cannot earn through your non paying grind, get over it. Instead of pay to win this needs to be entitled not pay and whine.

If they add Godly gear to the store, I'll *** along with you, but exp gain is not a pay to win. You win nothing, just get there faster.

eventide03b14a_ESO · March 2015

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

As someone who gets paid a heap of money but still gets a heap of time off I am loling so hard. People actually think that hardcore players like me who are stacked in cash irl wont abuse the hell out of this haha?!

I get 1cp with a good group grinding a certain way every 9-12 minutes. With potions we are going to lol so hard to OP town.

I suck at pvp but I will still own people with this potion training me up hahaha.... and people are still trying to defend it hahahaha....

Ahhhh cant wait until people are in zone saying "LFM for x trial 300+ cp or no invite" and people are crying about that instead on the forums like they couldnt see it coming....

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol

I hate to say it because I certainly don't want to contribute to this reckless system of paid XP gain, but I would probably buy them too if it came down to it. And unlike the guy who is married with kids, I happen to be kid free and have plenty of disposable income.

Darlgon · March 2015

BTW. Isnt this really a video on how to say "F@$#" every two seconds.. What a piece of garbage.

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

As someone who gets paid a heap of money but still gets a heap of time off I am loling so hard. People actually think that hardcore players like me who are stacked in cash irl wont abuse the hell out of this haha?!

I get 1cp with a good group grinding a certain way every 9-12 minutes. With potions we are going to lol so hard to OP town.

I suck at pvp but I will still own people with this potion training me up hahaha.... and people are still trying to defend it hahahaha....

Ahhhh cant wait until people are in zone saying "LFM for x trial 300+ cp or no invite" and people are crying about that instead on the forums like they couldnt see it coming....

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol

I hate to say it because I certainly don't want to contribute to this reckless system of paid XP gain, but I would probably buy them too if it came down to it. And unlike the guy who is married with kids, I happen to be kid free and have plenty of disposable income.

Yeap you and I will sit here and fight for this to be fair but in the end BLEEP it... I win either way. Normally being the good guy doesnt make you win however this time if people are dumb enough to allow this without a fight I still win so LOLOLOL I will see you at OP Town bro

nimander99 · March 2015

Also when i say exp pots are not pay too win i am only speaking to the existence of that item, not the circumstances that will drive the majority of people to use said item.

I am wholly against ZOS' decision to unilaterally nerf all EXP gain and not release new content for months to artificially drive up the need for said EXP pots....

DDuke · March 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

I challenge you to point to a single mmo that doesn't have an exp boost.

And in turn, I challenge you to find me a MMO with unlimited levels (e.g. Champion System) that has XP Boosters and isn't considered P2W.

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I challenge you to point to a single mmo that doesn't have an exp boost.

And in turn, I challenge you to find me a MMO with unlimited levels (e.g. Champion System) that has XP Boosters and isn't considered P2W.

Lol a smart person instantly sees how much you owned him then but instead he will come back with a bad game and say it, feeling as smart as a doctor and you will have made his ego blow up the earth. We will then have to move to mars to live, people will get sick of teh red dirt and we will slowly work towards moving to another planet like pluta, its cold there though but yea.

minnisville · March 2015

Ok, after reading a few more posts, and talking with a friend of mine, I can actually see both sides of the situation here.

I still dont see it being truly P2W(because it's not instant, it takes time either way), but I can see how xp pots can be a problem for the pvp side of things.
There can only be a couple of ways that they can fix this:
Either not have them in the store at all. Only having cosmetic and non combat stuff.
Keeping them in, and separating the pvp zones into "vet rank" areas. (I can see issues here too)
When making a toon, choose whether or not to put them into a pvp status. If pvp, no xp pots available for that toon in the store, or can't be used by them.
Either way, I can now see the problem now. And, Im sure that something may be applied later, but it isn't going to make everyone happy.
But, I will now leave this topic alone, as I can see both sides of the coin here. And, don't fall on either side.
Good luck to all the pvp, competitive people!

sadownik · March 2015

A point of view from returning player.

Right now i have lvl 49 char. Every time i go to cyrodil vet campagin to play with older kids i get mauled. I literraly die in less than a second and all im left with is a nice death recap. And im ok with it. I tell myself one day if i stick to ESO ill get up there, get decent gear and ill do my piece of mauling.

Now champion system is already putting me a t disadvantage. Im not ready for putting anymore money in ESO and i dont think i will be anytime soon. So with xp potions my chance to get somewhere near the middle of the player list is getting thiner and thiner.

One may say "well good you dont pay you dont get it" but here is the point. This is philosophy of F2P games not b2p where the amount of wallet riding should be (and in my experience with gw2 and tsw is) tonned down. Futhermore i do agree that this is just the beggining. How long it will take to see enlightement refreshment potions in store?

Messy1 · March 2015

The man in the video makes many good points . . .

nimander99 · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I challenge you to point to a single mmo that doesn't have an exp boost.

And in turn, I challenge you to find me a MMO with unlimited levels (e.g. Champion System) that has XP Boosters and isn't considered P2W.

3600 equals infinity in what universe?

ckovarovicb14_ESO · March 2015

Solution= make all pvpers start out with 4 classes and all the same skills. BAM! That's equal and that's "FAIR".

If you cannot taste the sarcasm... don't bother.

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

sadownik wrote: »

A point of view from returning player.

Right now i have lvl 49 char. Every time i go to cyrodil vet campagin to play with older kids i get mauled. I literraly die in less than a second and all im left with is a nice death recap. And im ok with it. I tell myself one day if i stick to ESO ill get up there, get decent gear and ill do my piece of mauling.

Now champion system is already putting me a t disadvantage. Im not ready for putting anymore money in ESO and i dont think i will be anytime soon. So with xp potions my chance to get somewhere near the middle of the player list is getting thiner and thiner.

One may say "well good you dont pay you dont get it" but here is the point. This is philosophy of F2P games not b2p where the amount of wallet riding should be (and in my experience with gw2 and tsw is) tonned down. Futhermore i do agree that this is just the beggining. How long it will take to see enlightement refreshment potions in store?

Bingo! you win.

It takes me 9-12 mins to get a CP even without the potion. When the increased enlighten potions comes out im going to take a bullet train to OP Town haha.

nimander99 · March 2015

Why not just disable Champion System when entering Cyrodiil? That would kill this argument.

Sevalaricgirl · March 2015

Razzak wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

The thing is, you never have to pay....ever. You don't need those potions. What happened to gaming for entertainment, to have a immersive experience. I've spent a ton on SWTOR but none of it on stuff to make me a better gamer, it was all clothes and vehicles for my 8 characters. Did I need to do it, no. Did I need to buy the horse in ESO's store...no. Do you need to buy the XP potions....no.

Not to mention XP potions are there to help f2p players get some of the XP they are losing to subbed players. But no one says you have to spend any money on it. If people don't spend the money, ZOS will put stuff in the store that people will spend money on, better armors, other mounts, customization.

And for the person who said none of us should stand by the decisions ZOS makes....1) it's their game...2) they are a company that's trying to make money off a game. That's all there is to it. You either stay and play or go find another game.

I imagine you either don't or don't intend to play at end game dungeons and trials, PVP or other competitive aspects of ESO. And it's not a question if you need to pay, it's a question of why those that do pay, have an advantage at what they can do when they are playing those competitive parts I mentioned.

If you want an analogy ... Imagine you not receiving the same rewards as other players. You don't need to get them ... ever, but for the game to make you feel like you have succeeded at something, it also has to make you feel like you are playing with the same privileges. 50% and more bonus XP for CP gain, will make many feel like they are playing with brakes applied. And if real currency is the only real solution for that, it is P2W. Or getting very close to that.

I respectfully disagree and stand by my assumptions. In dungeons, who are you winning against...a pixel boss. Does it really matter if you have you name on a list for a game? PvP is the only place you are competing against other players and no, I don't PvP and don't intend to.

As reference, I do a lot of end game Flashpoints and Operations in SWTOR and in no way do I see it as a competition against other players thus it is not P2W. You can't win against yourself or a pixel. You can only win in PvP.

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Why not just disable Champion System when entering Cyrodiil? That would kill this argument.

That would disable there only item which is worth buying in the store as well loooooooool.

nimander99 · March 2015

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Why not just disable Champion System when entering Cyrodiil? That would kill this argument.

That would disable there only item which is worth buying in the store as well loooooooool.

Right which is exactly the same thing as saying disable exp pot boost for CP's

Hortator Mopa · March 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Why not just disable Champion System when entering Cyrodiil? That would kill this argument.

That would disable there only item which is worth buying in the store as well loooooooool.

Right which is exactly the same thing as saying disable exp pot boost for CP's

profitable ideas are not fair ideas, not fair ideas are normally p2w ideas, p2w is good profit.

We all lose the game is ruined and i am rich as f so lol have fun vsing me and beating me in trial times.

lichmeister · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

I think we need a new term for xp p2w... should be P2GSQ.... Pay to get stuff quicker.

P2W and P2GSQ is not the same

With this you imply that everyone would get to the same point eventually, like in other MMOs (e.g. level cap).

However, with Champion System there is virtually no level cap. On average, it takes you 9-10 years to get 3600 CPs, and they can just as easily add in another 3600 before you ever reach that.

It is much more than just "pay to hit max level quicker, then everyone is equal".

It is more like throwing money at a power granting hamster wheel and making it spin faster. P2W.

If the "stuff" you refer to is equal power with Player X who chugs these potions, it will never happen. Player X will also keep gaining power and there are no real limits on it. If it never happens, then "P2GSQ" doesn't really exist, and the potions are just P2W plain & simple.

I hope this makes sense, I tried to explain it as well as I could.

this is exactly the difference between ESO Exp Pots and virtually every other MMO: in most cases the only effect of the Exp Pot is to get you to the level cap so you can do all that zany end game content. in eso the Experience just keeps piling up for a literal decade!
the difference will be more apparent as time goes on so imagine that you have been grinding away for 4 years as a hard core player and have a (mighty) 1800 CP but have never or rarely used and exp pots. Imagine, now that a competing player with virtually identical playing habits has had the money to keep himself in potions all the time... he will have approximately 2700 which will add up to a sizable combat advantage!

Atirez · March 2015

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Why not just disable Champion System when entering Cyrodiil? That would kill this argument.

That would disable there only item which is worth buying in the store as well loooooooool.

Right which is exactly the same thing as saying disable exp pot boost for CP's

profitable ideas are not fair ideas, not fair ideas are normally p2w ideas, p2w is good profit.

We all lose the game is ruined and i am rich as f so lol have fun vsing me and beating me in trial times.

And that profit is a false economy. Why boost income in the short term at the expense of long term repeatable cash flow from a thriving game. XP potions that do not increase CP would still sell. All those people levelling Alts for example or who just want to get to the end game. Hell, release a character boost to level 50 or Vet 14 and that is also all good.