Yes. The people who whine about P2W most likely haven't competed in a true P2W environment. I challenge them to go win in Game of War or something as such. You'll get slaughtered unless you can bankroll tens of thousands of dollars. And those people that compete at that level don't blink an eye over it. ESO is nowhere near P2W even with weak 50% XP pots that people are shouting as P2W. Now if they sold you 3600 CP instantly for $$$+ and you only keep the CP for 2 hours then you can complain.

A video speaks a thousand words, thank you!

I dropped $400 on neverwinter at launch and spent weeks destroying people 1v5 in PvP matches. My character wore a cash shop wedding dress, rode a cash shop mount, and purchased the most expensive powerful gear available with each level up. Character name was creditcardcowboy with a parrot pet named pay2win.

I felt good knowing how many people I drove to quit that game in my crusade against pay2win stupidity.

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

But guys... getting .1% increase in spell cost reduction 50% faster is P2W! You just don't get it.

Maybe you dont get what p2w means. Effectively it is pay for advantage not a guaranteed win. Therefore by what you said you can pay for a 1% advantage and a effective p2w...


LOL

Meh, by definition you can call it P2W, sure, but that is not really what matters. This does not give a permanent advantage, such as strong weapons or armor. Additionally, the player is still required to work for the levels. Other players can still reach that point. While we still need to see how this is implemented, I find it far from something to worry about at this time.

Great upload! Games like Archeage and Neverwinter were the dev say "you can earn everything in game" then make the most epic items and enchants un-lockable at .001% is a total joke.

What people NEED to understand is that these games were developed exactly as they were intended! They created horridly p2w games to appeal ONLY to the whales and then call them f2p to bring in thousands of suckers for their whales to kill.

ESO was never developed for the above situation. It was made for the fans of the series.

nimander99 wrote: »

Great upload! Games like Archeage and Neverwinter were the dev say "you can earn everything in game" then make the most epic items and enchants un-lockable at .001% is a total joke.

What people NEED to understand is that these games were developed exactly as they were intended! They created horridly p2w games to appeal ONLY to the whales and then call them f2p to bring in thousands of suckers for their whales to kill.

ESO was never developed for the above situation. It was made for the fans of the series.

Actually Archeage was made as a sub mmo.

The potion is pay to win, it simply is, and if players blindly accept it, how long do you think it'll be before other, more powerful items start making their way into the store? This is the test balloon, and you guys are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

nimander99 wrote: »

Great upload! Games like Archeage and Neverwinter were the dev say "you can earn everything in game" then make the most epic items and enchants un-lockable at .001% is a total joke.

What people NEED to understand is that these games were developed exactly as they were intended! They created horridly p2w games to appeal ONLY to the whales and then call them f2p to bring in thousands of suckers for their whales to kill.

ESO was never developed for the above situation. It was made for the fans of the series.

hm, Neverwinter make that mistake make very low drop but looks like they learn a lesson and revert it at least, players dont come back also.

yeah Eso was not developer for above situation but for fans, but you dont consider that that fans are singleplayers mostly, so they dont care about these systems much, but can have subs as wall to dont play and never spend ....

Evandus wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Great upload! Games like Archeage and Neverwinter were the dev say "you can earn everything in game" then make the most epic items and enchants un-lockable at .001% is a total joke.

What people NEED to understand is that these games were developed exactly as they were intended! They created horridly p2w games to appeal ONLY to the whales and then call them f2p to bring in thousands of suckers for their whales to kill.

ESO was never developed for the above situation. It was made for the fans of the series.

Actually Archeage was made as a sub mmo.

The potion is pay to win, it simply is, and if players blindly accept it, how long do you think it'll be before other, more powerful items start making their way into the store? This is the test balloon, and you guys are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

Overall, I'm inclined to agree here. I know nothing of Archeage or Neverwinter. But I do know my previous MMO of 6 years fairly well. I remember the introduction of these types of items. And once they were accepted how they got more and more outrageous with every game update.

It was interesting to see in that game a reincarnation system get monetized. Before I left that game, it reached the point where you could drop 50 bucks cash and have everything you'd need to do a complete life on your character to gain power. Using the items mad a reincarnation take about 2 hours. Playing the game as intended made it take 2 weeks for an experienced player.

My point exactly, we've all seen it before in other mmos at this point. It's the very reason I'm here, because this was one of the few mmos that DIDN'T nickel and dime people to oblivion.

It starts small, with say an EXP pot. Then, incrementally it gets worse and worse. The goal posts move gradually, not all at once, that way the player base continue to go along with it because "it's not a major difference".

Before you know it we have lockboxes. At first those boxes drop trinkets and cosmetic items (which is already extorting people imo) but then the lockboxes start to contain powerful items of their own. Maybe a top tier weapon? Or regrade mats that push it up beyond what we currently have. Drop chances are so low that you have to sink hundreds to be in with a chance.

Or maybe they avoid boxes altogether, and just put these new powerful items up for sale. Either way it's P2W and it starts with encouraging people to spend money on EXP pots that the game doesn't need, in order to keep up in your champion points with the next guy. The problem is that the gap widens, it doesn't close. Because not only are those casual players using the pots, but the hardcore players are as well.

Sorry I know it all sounds very "tin foil hat", but we've all seen it numerous times in the past five years, with practically every mmo that made the switch to F2P (or in this case B2P). The precedent is there.

To save space I put quotes in the spoiler

@Xabien
Are you sure you watched the whole video OP posted? Because if you did you would not use such arguments as "It starts small, with say an EXP pot. Then, incrementally it gets worse and worse. The goal posts move gradually, not all at once, that way the player base continue to go along with it because "it's not a major difference". It's neither a good nor a valid argument, it's the same as saying "ESO is P2W because it has a required subscription" before they removed it.

How is using an EXP pot the same as using such clearly overpowered items as demonstrated in the video? How will you benefit from that EXP pot to a similar degree as those items in the video? In this instance using champion levels is an invalid argument because they are still EASILY obtained through normal means and normal gameplay in the game as those items in the video can NEVER be obtained in the game by normal means.

Dont make assumptions on what items they will put in the store before ZOS actually confirm anything.

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Eso was made for money. How people stand up for the company choices from ZoS is beyond me.

I'm guessing it's because they're having such fun playing the game and in most cases feel wholly unaffected by a lot of those company choices.

For example, the whole "P2W" argument passes me by completely, I have zero concern about the items sold in the Crown Store because I do not PvP or otherwise play competitively. I haven't even looked at the Crown Store yet, let alone bought anything. I'm still paying a subscription and the business model change hasn't really affected me.

Of course ESO was made for money. ZOS are a business not a philanthropic charity - a distinction usually lost on the "entitlement" generation of freeloaders (not that I'm throwing that label at anyone here). That doesn't mean, however, that the game can't be fun to play and I'm personally enjoying it every bit as much today as I was a year or so ago - more in some respects as some of the changes have improved the game.

can CP be respecced like skills and attributes?