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Auction House ?
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Potenza✭✭✭✭✭Arizona_Willie wrote: »What a shame.
ESO could be a great game.
I enjoyed it a lot but at a certain stage an AH become a necessity as far as I'm concerned.
I will NOT return until they have an Auction House.
Now I'm playing Dying Light.
Definitely no AH needed there
ESO is not for you.2 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then
lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
That is not called supply and demand. You forget, in the real world there are multiple outlets. Much like in game come to think of it. And even on places such as Amazon, pricing is generally done with the idea of staying in business in mind, it's NOT a race to the bottom like it is with global AHs in mmos.
Just to add - if you'd like to see a global AH on a large server in action, looking at pricing in GW2.Edited by ItsGlaive on March 19, 2015 5:04PMAllow cross-platform transfers and merges3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mountain_Dewed wrote: »I don't understand why players have a hard time going to a kiosk and finding what they need? Rawl'kha alone probably has 99% of the stuff and the rest is well, just hard to get anyway but still not any harder if there was an AH. Maybe someone can explain...
It's the times when you're looking for missing 1% that make ALL the difference. Getting carpal tunnel syndrome from checking EVERY kiosk in the game for that special item, which takes hours, is NOT my idea of fun!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Darklord_Tiberius✭✭✭✭Arizona_Willie wrote: »What a shame.
ESO could be a great game.
I enjoyed it a lot but at a certain stage an AH become a necessity as far as I'm concerned.
I will NOT return until they have an Auction House.
Now I'm playing Dying Light.
Definitely no AH needed there
ESO is a great game.
I have millions of gold from using guild stores and using this system. I played WoW for 5 years and made millions in that game playing the Auction Hall. I learned to adapt and change to this style. Its not hard.
The guild stores are actually a great system because the overall market cannot tank because people want to keep under cutting each other to make a quick buck (I am guessing you are this type of player because your overwhelming desire for an AH).
And to add to my point, the prices in ESO vary from trade guild to trade guild and prices are different across the board. This a great because someone that does not have much money is not forced to have to pay high prices because that's what the market is set at. In ESO you can travel to different cities/zones and browse around until you find a price that fits your budget.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on March 22, 2015 3:30AM4 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
That is not called supply and demand. You forget, in the real world there are multiple outlets. Much like in game come to think of it. And even on places such as Amazon, pricing is generally done with the idea of staying in business in mind, it's NOT a race to the bottom like it is with global AHs in mmos.
Just to add - if you'd like to see a global AH on a large server in action, looking at pricing in GW2.
Yes, there are mutliple outlets in the real world, millions of them, but it only takes me 30 seconds to search for the best deal on a Vizio TV, for example. Searching all the guild stores in Tamriel for the best deal on a Warlock ring takes HOURS.
See the difference?
The guild stores themselves wouldn't be so bad if there was a way to search ALL stores at once, from a single location. Then maybe you could pay for the item ahead of time and go pick it up at the kiosk.Edited by Emma_Overload on March 19, 2015 5:44PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
liquid_wolf✭✭✭✭No Auction House.
I want something better than an Auction House. Something that integrates with the world a bit more.3 -
Darklord_Tiberius✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
That is not called supply and demand. You forget, in the real world there are multiple outlets. Much like in game come to think of it. And even on places such as Amazon, pricing is generally done with the idea of staying in business in mind, it's NOT a race to the bottom like it is with global AHs in mmos.
Just to add - if you'd like to see a global AH on a large server in action, looking at pricing in GW2.
Yes, there are mutliple outlets in the real world, millions of them, but it only takes me 30 seconds to search for the best deal on a Vizio TV, for example. Searching all the guild stores in Tamriel for the best deal on a Warlock ring takes HOURS.
See the difference?
Well lets start with your first problem, you are still looking to buy the Warlock set. Pro tip: that set is useless now without soft caps.1 -
RealRobD✭✭✭Agreed no global AH is a huge failure. Works freakin awesome for GW2, Wow etc. Sometimes designers get an idea they think is amazing, but it turns out not to be
3 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
That is not called supply and demand.
It is Your complaint about prices being driven down by oversaturation is exactly the fundamental basis for how supply and demand works. Rare items are expensive, common items are not....Until you are able to artificially inflate the prices of common items by reducing market access, thereby making them less common, which is what we have in ESO. That doesn't really help anyone, because buyers end up paying more than they should, and sellers have less buyers to begin with. 5 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
That is not called supply and demand. You forget, in the real world there are multiple outlets. Much like in game come to think of it. And even on places such as Amazon, pricing is generally done with the idea of staying in business in mind, it's NOT a race to the bottom like it is with global AHs in mmos.
Just to add - if you'd like to see a global AH on a large server in action, looking at pricing in GW2.
Yes, there are mutliple outlets in the real world, millions of them, but it only takes me 30 seconds to search for the best deal on a Vizio TV, for example. Searching all the guild stores in Tamriel for the best deal on a Warlock ring takes HOURS.
See the difference?
The guild stores themselves wouldn't be so bad if there was a way to search ALL stores at once, from a single location. Then maybe you could pay for the item ahead of time and go pick it up at the kiosk.
So you agree that multiple outlets works, or at least that this is how it's done in the real world. Good, at least we can put that whole "everything under one roof for pittance" thing aside now. As for the search, I can totally get behind you on this. A better search function, maybe the ability to search the five guilds you belong to, would be a good idea. Or even an NPC in each major town that allows you to search and then tells you where to go to collect the item?
That could work as a very useful compromise! Allow cross-platform transfers and merges1 -
Zorvan✭✭✭✭
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
Try EvE Online, the biggest economic simulation in gaming. Which has an auction house and functions quite well.
So, nope. You lose.Edited by Zorvan on March 19, 2015 10:26PMI've been muted since November 2017 because of the whiny crybabies on this forum and the liberal ZOS employees coddling them.2 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy. People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
Because this is utter bull crap. At the moment the economy hardly functions fir anything other than a few mats, potions and food.
New players can't find gear, trawling round zones looking fir what I needed is crap, finding recipes is nonsense.
It is currently utterly tedious, discouraging when trying to get crafting levelled or selling mats, crap for people trying to save for bank space, bags and horses.
It's a terrible idea, when one of the cornerstones of a currency based system is ease of trade.
They tried it. It doesn't work, something needs to change.
6 -
MikeMoss✭✭✭Hi
I still want an auction house.
Buying and selling has always been something I put a lot of time into.
In ESO I just sell everything to a merchant and move on.
I've bought a few things from guild merchants but usually I can't find anything I need.
If we had a centralized auction I'd be working hard at making money and putting together sets of armor etc.
Mike4 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy. People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
Because this is utter bull crap. At the moment the economy hardly functions fir anything other than a few mats, potions and food.
New players can't find gear, trawling round zones looking fir what I needed is crap, finding recipes is nonsense.
It is currently utterly tedious, discouraging when trying to get crafting levelled or selling mats, crap for people trying to save for bank space, bags and horses.
It's a terrible idea, when one of the cornerstones of a currency based system is ease of trade.
They tried it. It doesn't work, something needs to change.
You say it doesn't work. Many of us use it, enjoy it and will continue to use it. As for gear, it drops frequently enough and is more than simple enough to craft. There are many mmos out there that have an auction house, if you can't accept the way this one does it then maybe try one of those?Allow cross-platform transfers and merges3 -
tallenn✭✭✭An inefficient market favors the few (the "professional" sellers), at the expense of the masses (the consumers). An efficient market would favor the masses at the expense of no one, as we are all consumers.
As long as ZOS chooses to cater to those few, we'll have an inefficient market. May I suggest whoever there that works on economic issue read some Hayek, Mises, Friedman, or even some Ayn Rand.
Personally, I simply choose to not participate in the market, aside from listing motifs I don't need on my one guild's store. There's really nothing anyone else is selling that I need, and I'm not going to overpay for things I might want.6 -
Endurance✭✭✭there are guild stores scattered all around the game but i dont like having to run around different parts of the maps to find random ones and many of the stores usually sell noob crap like lvl 10 ~ 30 junk i dont even need and barely any crafting materialI'm outta here2 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
I think it does end up breaking the economy. Supply and demand is not the end all beat all. With as little "regulation" as game mechanics allow for it's too ez for die-hard traders to "corner" markets when they have access to all possible supply with the click of a button. The current system simulates a real world economy better by input of geographic limitations. Your proposed system would make it WAY too easy for collusion among trading guilds to abuse the system AND THEY WOULD. See it in every MMO with a global system. ZoS's approach is a good middle ground for keeping traders honest and prices decent for the time and effort involved.
Don't try to minimize the supporters of the current system. We've seen this topic go on for over a year and the community support for the current system is overwhelmingly in our favor. I guarantee you there are more than a "couple" of people as you say that support the current system and REJECT the Lais ez Faire approach you pose for a global system.
This system breaks up the monopoly before it happens. That's why guilds are limited in size and access to goods are limited through location. The addons available that crunch number from guild sales is all the global access we really need. Subsequently prices are not "artificially inflated" because we can see what they are trading for across the board. Prices tend to be relative to location, the better locations bringing higher prices due to convenience and foot traffic.
Besides, I like the rat race of searching items and deals through vendor hopping. With the addon "awesome guild trader" it makes the experience even better so I don't have to retype my search anew with every vendor I visit.
The question I have for you is this. Why on Earth would I risk the satisfaction I and many others have with the current system on that which you propose? Since I seem to have as much access to goods as I need. I find whatever I'm looking for at a price that are typically agreeable. Sometimes the prices are high but usually due to location and I can move on to the next cart if I chose to do so. Other times I find great deals. Why change it if the system is actually working for me as a consumer?Edited by Vizier on March 20, 2015 3:58PM4 -
Milktray✭✭✭You have 5 guilds you can join, 5 hubs of people to keep in touch with. Other games, 1 guild, dwindling players
Here it keeps you intouch with people and if one guild gets to small for you, drop a note why AND JOIN ANOTHER!! Jesus, how lazy are some of these people ?ZoS please understand everyone thinks and pronounces things differently, so please add to your 'rules' that things get removed if the Mod doesn't actually quite understand phrasing1 -
radiostar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the trader system Z made. Yes, I thought they were going to do it differently (like the chef vendor would also sell player-made foods, the armor vendor would also sell player-made gear etc.) but they did a good job on it their way.
I would like them to keep improving it. I want to be able to open the trader screen and search by an item name. Or at least on the search results screen, sort by the name column heading so at least everything is in alpha order. Then I can scroll down to what I'm looking for.
In other games I used the AH too, made gazillions of game dinero. Yes, it's fun but plateaus very fast. Here, I'm selling a lot and it even picked up since TU launched. One guild got record sales, good for us and good for the next trader bid. I would like to be able to join more guilds to sell more, but honestly I'm crafting to the max I can and it's hard to keep up with sales.
There are some good deals to buy also. I don't mind visiting different traders, but I get how it can feel like a big chore. If the search function on the traders worked a little better, it wouldn't feel so tedious. You could quickly see if what you want is there and move on. Right now, it's more of browsing than tracking down what you need at that moment.
Another thing might help is being able to find where a guild store moves to if they get a different trader the next week. So when you go back to their old trader, it tells you where they went and you can visit their store again for more bargains. Maybe Z has some plans for that.
But no AH needed."Billions upon Billions of Stars"2 -
Chelo✭✭✭✭✭Sooner or later Devs will add an AH... This economy system is the worst I have seen in a MMO in years... They just need time to realize this... Thanks lord the game is B2P now because with more players, the AH will come hopefully sooner =D2 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭You have 5 guilds you can join, 5 hubs of people to keep in touch with. Other games, 1 guild, dwindling players
Here it keeps you intouch with people and if one guild gets to small for you, drop a note why AND JOIN ANOTHER!! Jesus, how lazy are some of these people ?
Broken.
As for the person saying go find a game with an auction house. People already have and I am sure that contributed somewhat to having to go b2p.
I personally live ESO and would like to see it flourish, and strongly feel that a simpler approach to trade and player driven economy and easier transfer if materials, consumables and equipment would result in better player retention.
As for my own experience I'm an old hat at MMO s in general, I've been playing for a few months and have a few million of in game assets. I've kind of made it work for me, but still think for the good of the game an auction house would be better than the current flawed system.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You have 5 guilds you can join, 5 hubs of people to keep in touch with giving you a restricted number of trading outlets scattered all over the world and that change from week to week. Other games, 1 guild, dwindling players and a single world-wide unrestricted trading system
Here it keeps you intouch with people and if one guild gets to small for you, drop a note why AND JOIN ANOTHER!! Jesus, how lazy are some of these people ?
My additions in bold and italics answer your point.
0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Put it this way, ZOS have the user data, all of it. Sales, purchases, pricing, types if items being sold etc etc. if the numbers show it working (as I firmly believe it IS), then we'll keep it. If the numbers show it isn't working, then they'll change it eventually for the same mindless race to the bottom we have in every other mmo.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges1 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
I think it does end up breaking the economy. Supply and demand is not the end all beat all. With as little "regulation" as game mechanics allow for it's too ez for die-hard traders to "corner" markets when they have access to all possible supply with the click of a button. The current system simulates a real world economy better by input of geographic limitations. Your proposed system would make it WAY too easy for collusion among trading guilds to abuse the system AND THEY WOULD. See it in every MMO with a global system. ZoS's approach is a good middle ground for keeping traders honest and prices decent for the time and effort involved.
Don't try to minimize the supporters of the current system. We've seen this topic go on for over a year and the community support for the current system is overwhelmingly in our favor. I guarantee you there are more than a "couple" of people as you say that support the current system and REJECT the Lais ez Faire approach you pose for a global system.
This system breaks up the monopoly before it happens. That's why guilds are limited in size and access to goods are limited through location. The addons available that crunch number from guild sales is all the global access we really need. Subsequently prices are not "artificially inflated" because we can see what they are trading for across the board. Prices tend to be relative to location, the better locations bringing higher prices due to convenience and foot traffic.
Besides, I like the rat race of searching items and deals through vendor hopping. With the addon "awesome guild trader" it makes the experience even better so I don't have to retype my search anew with every vendor I visit.
The question I have for you is this. Why on Earth would I risk the satisfaction I and many others have with the current system on that which you propose? Since I seem to have as much access to goods as I need. I find whatever I'm looking for at a price that are typically agreeable. Sometimes the prices are high but usually due to location and I can move on to the next cart if I chose to do so. Other times I find great deals. Why change it if the system is actually working for me as a consumer?
Every single poll I've seen on this subject has shown majority support for adding an auction house. I'm not sure where you get your information. As for monopolies, they are more likely in this system than in an open market. There's nothing "lais ez faire" about an open market, the market by nature regulates itself. Common goods are cheap, rare goods are expensive, and this is dictated not by people, but by .....
supply and demand. Availability of goods. The system you're in favor of creates artificial limits that don't need to exist, for any reason.
I don't have the patience for playing the market, but I have made millions upon millions of credits in SWTOR just selling crafting mats that I outlevel/don't use or just plain have a surplus of. In ESO, i just vendor them. In this game, buyers are being deprived by a poor system.Edited by Drachenfier on March 20, 2015 5:27PM3 -
Theosis✭✭✭✭This system is terrible. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Terrible.
If I could find all the Kiosks in 20 minutes maybe it would be okay. If there was a market place that would be different.
These Kiosks are only good for select people. Not everybody can earn 5 mil gold of their natural talents. Not everyone has the time to search through the Kiosks to buy and sell so well.
These Kiosks are hard to find and not every guild has one.This is were my signature would be if I was allowed one.3 -
radiostar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If I could find all the Kiosks in 20 minutes maybe it would be okay. If there was a market place that would be different.
Maybe have it where you press m for the map, and one of the icons is for the traders. Which would show every trader and let you port there the way we can with dungeons. But that might be too easy for Z."Billions upon Billions of Stars"0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This system is terrible. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Terrible.
If I could find all the Kiosks in 20 minutes maybe it would be okay. If there was a market place that would be different.
These Kiosks are only good for select people. Not everybody can earn 5 mil gold of their natural talents. Not everyone has the time to search through the Kiosks to buy and sell so well.
These Kiosks are hard to find and not every guild has one.
There's usually a cluster of traders in the main city in each zone, and then 2 other traders outside of that. All within steps of a wayshrine (with a few exceptions - not sure why ZOS hates Shornhelm).
If I could find all the Kiosks in 20 minutes maybe it would be okay. If there was a market place that would be different.
Maybe have it where you press m for the map, and one of the icons is for the traders. Which would show every trader and let you port there the way we can with dungeons. But that might be too easy for Z.
There is a map icon for guild traders.The Moot Councillor0 -
Grapdjan✭✭✭✭Yes and some people have only a few hours play time a week, and they'd like to buy stuff too.2
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Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol
I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game. Tired of providing links to ZOS's posts. It's even not funny anymore, it's rather sad. Sad that people think that no need to check previous discussion. Sad that they are too lazy and too unwise to keep this place constructive and civilian. Sad that most people don't use search tool and asking the same questions over and over and over and over and over again. This topic it totally useless.
I think you mean "sad that they hold a different opinion to you".
The OP is right. The guild store system does not provide an effective means of public trading, and its retention is only sought by those who belong to the guilds that corner the market in kiosks. Well, the rest of us would quite like to be able to sell stuff too, and have a lot less hassle finding the other stuff that we want to buy. Whether it's an AH or some other form of public trading, there needs to be a better system than the one we have currently. That's why it's an issue that comes up so frequently.
@Tandor nope, I'm absoultely fine if someone have different opinion. It make you to look different on the same question.Drachenfier wrote: »AshySamurai wrote: »
I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.
Auction House choose any link you want.
I don't see anything in any of those links to give evidence that auction houses ruin economies. What I do see is a bunch of people that want to corner markets without competition arguing against having them. Letting supply and demand do what it does naturally is a good thing. Artificially inducing inflated prices by limiting market access is a bad thing.
There are now 142 Guild traders in Tamriel (126 from before + 16 new ones in Outlaw Refuges). I don't see how anyone can "corner the market" in that set up.
What's the point then, of segregating the markets? If "so many guild traders" are readily available, then just centralize it and call it a day.
Why keep asking the same bloody question? You've heard why centralising is a bad idea. It breaks the economy.
No. it. does. not.
You and a couple others claiming it does over and over doesn't make it true.People undercut one another until there's absolutely nothing left, crafters are unable to make their money back, regular players are unable to make decent gold and STILL the best items get jacked up in price - leaving an entire population with little gold and no way to afford to buy the best stuff.
That's called supply and demand, killer, simple economics. Artificially inflating prices due to limited access does not "make a good economy".
That is not called supply and demand.
It is Your complaint about prices being driven down by oversaturation is exactly the fundamental basis for how supply and demand works. Rare items are expensive, common items are not....Until you are able to artificially inflate the prices of common items by reducing market access, thereby making them less common, which is what we have in ESO. That doesn't really help anyone, because buyers end up paying more than they should, and sellers have less buyers to begin with.
what you fail to see is that in the real world retailers will not undercut in price so drastically as to lose profit in what they are selling. This happens all the time in MMOs that have server wide auction houses. People will undercut until profit is no longer available and are actually losing currency in said transaction, this is done in order just to make a quick sell. This kills crafters viability to sell their wares for a profit. So you see it doesn't function as it would in the real world because if you don't sell that item In your virtual world your character will not loose their business, they will not go hungry. Bottom line is that people don't see that the trading guild system creates a whole new mini game with in ESO, something that hasn't been seen since the days of older mmos such as SWG and UO. The global auction house system killed the trading game in mmos, I for one am glad ESO brought it back. Hell I say take it one step further and create a merchant class, one with skills and passives to improve crafting trading and socializing.2