ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

A hotfix buffing it would really be appreciated.

frozywozy wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

the dmg got nerfed because you cant mitigate it anymore, so how much less (or even more) dmg you get compared to 1.5 depends on how much mitigation you have

Siege could not be mitigated in 1.5, nothing has changed on that front.

Siege damage was mitigated by armor in 1.5. It isn't anymore in 1.6.

No, this is completely false. In 1.5 Flaming Oil dealt 600 damage to normal players, 900 damage to vampires, 300 damage to vampires in Mist Form, 480 damage to players in siege shield, etc.

It was NOT mitigated by armor.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

You are aware of what I said above, right? Siege has never been affected by armor, so unless you're referring to the Cyrodiil Heavy Armor set which reduces damage taken from siege by 20%, I don't see what there is to monitor.

In 1.5 Flaming Oil dealt 20% of my max health per tick, now it deals 12% of my max health per tick. Given that I have changed nothing (62 points in health, no health on armor), that is a pretty clear 40% nerf to siege damage despite your claimed 10% increase.

Domander wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

............but I thought siege ignores armor?

lol you're right..I didn't think about that..If it ignores armor then it shouldn't matter if the person is wearing light armor or no armor.

Make Siege damage ignore Shields and then maybe We'll be getting somewhere.

Zerging is alive and well. The "anti-zerg" sticky bomb is useless (unless you want to tag for AP) and, now, with the feather-tickle that siege gives you can only fight zerg with zerg. Toe to toe.

Oil is laughable. Fix this. No need to monitor it. Everyone with a half a clue in Cyro worked it out in 10 minutes. Buff it. Double it even. That would be interesting.

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

Today, EP breached the east postern at Alessia, there were 6 oil pots over the stairs, caltrops everywhere and multiple cats and ballistas aimed at the hole... the Ep zerg just ran right up the stairs, no harm no foul, and killed everyone with Meteors and Radiant Destructions.

You said that you wanted to reduce the ridiculous amount of zerging in this game. I'm not seeing it. Make siege useful, ffs.

As it stands, the balance of power during a siege is on the attackers side, never mind how much more so it is with lag, and the balance during any siege should always favor the defenders (unless they're vastly outnumbered). Otherwise, what's the point of defensive fortifications!?

This is the really big problem. Nobody wants to defend keeps anymore because they know it's pointless. The opposition is going to stream in regardless of what you throw at them.

The siege damage is pathetic. I can stand there on a ballista doing counter-siege, get hit by an enemy treb(s) and/or ballistas, and my health bar barely moves. My siege engine gets destroyed real quick but who cares. It wasn't doing any damage anyway. And vampires are lousy examples to use in this discussion. There aren't that many left in PVP that I see.

I think you should swap the damage output from the Jesus beam with the damage from siege engines. And bring back impenetrable. Or give give me a pea shooter - at least the cost should a lot less than what I'm wasting now.

umagon wrote: »

Why not just make the damage based off player's health total. So that the weapons for example do damage equal to at least 30% of their total health as a base amount, before any reduction is applied. That way char level doesn't matter.

This wouldn't work as players would run low HP levels with high shield values. Siege needs to be a fixed value so players can choose what is important to them, avoiding the siege or staying stacked etc..

@ BrianWheeler -

I appreciate the thought put into the decision on not having siege one-shot nonvet players. Just before 1.6 hit, I recently made a new alt and went into Cyrodiil. I was killed by a single ballista shot. I was so used to being able to ignore/mitigate, heal through them that when I got hit on my level 15, I was actually surprised I died. So I do agree this is a legimtate conern.

But...

The problem in the buffs given to nonvet players entering Cyrodiil are woefully inadequate. Nonvet players stand zero chance at all competing on a Vet server because they have crap gear, few passives, and don't even have their skilllines maxed out. They are so helpless that some players typically ignore them out of pity. I understand there is Backwater blade, however, let's be real, at least half of those players are very experienced ESO vets messing around on alts and besides not every non-vet not wants to play there.

Recognizing the issue in this topic and your concern, isn't the best move to actually up the buffs non-vets get? I mean, you calculated these buffs way way way back in March, right? When the max level was Vr10, before all this new gear was released, and about a dozen iterations of the evolving META? i'm pretty sure if you double the bonuses non-vet gets, they still will be little more than speedbumps. up the nonvet bonus so they can actually compete, then you can up the relative damage on seige weapons without fear of one-shotting non-vets. Problem(s) if not solved, at least addressed.

On a side note, I will add that seige weapons do fine against other seige weapons and walls - do *not* add the damage here. It is the VR14 payers, with their shields, immunities, heals, and mitigation that siege weapons need a boost against.

Keron wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't siege engines supposed to ignore armor?

It's kind of disheartening to read this from the PvP lead...

They have always ignored armor.

all i can say is I am happy to be able to say that I remember when PvP was fun..before it was gutted..before FCs were abused..back when oils actually killed people..all worthless things now. The Devs went from these things being abused to not worth spending ap on.

Right now the system is so cushy that you can stand still while several ballista trebs and catapults hit you with 1ton boulders directly on your head without having to move....

here is how it should be....

change the damage on seige weapons to decrease the farther from the center of impact you are, with the center being easily able to instantly kill even vet players but being extremely small and easy to avoid.

a good mechanic, you have a Base Impact Radius(BIR) and every double of that beyond it the damage is halved. for instance if you have a weapon that has a BIR of 2, every 2 beyond the BIR the damage is halved.

If a Seige weapon hits another seige weapon, the inital impact radius is completly absorbed and as a result all damage is halved. the seige weapon hit takes 20% bonus damage



exacts should be like this

*Damage(DMG) Base Impact Radius(BIR) Radius Limit(RL)

Catapults
DMG:30k (15k on scattershot)
BIR:4m (8m on scattershot)
RL:16m (16m on scattershot)
RELOAD:5s
HP:150k,
short distance parabolic arc

Ballista
DMG:35k
BIR:2m
RL:8m
RELOAD:6s
HP:75k
Straight arc untill sudden dropoff(fast projectile speed and high accuracy)

Trebuchet
DMG:40k
BIR:3m
RL:12m
RELOAD:9s
HP:300k
Long Distance Parabolic Arc



Player Level should modify the damage of incoming Seige weapon fire slighly. with each level below the cap reducing damage by 1% for a maximum of 53% when entering at LVL10

if V14 players get one shot by seige weapon splash damage because they dont have enough HP then thats just a LTP issue.

---

as extreme as this system sounds, in my experience, 99% of all seige impacts on moving players would not be direct hits.. and only those who are not moving from aim to fire and projectile travel, which can easily be more than 10 seconds would be susceptible to being instantly killed by seige.. basically only the stupid or the AFK would be potentially instantly killed.


these changes if implemented exactly as described above would simply make standing still while being attacked by seige weapons deadly, and would require players to at least slowly move out of the way to survive heavy seige, it would also help to spread out seige when a keep is contested.

i woul

Turelus wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

Today, EP breached the east postern at Alessia, there were 6 oil pots over the stairs, caltrops everywhere and multiple cats and ballistas aimed at the hole... the Ep zerg just ran right up the stairs, no harm no foul, and killed everyone with Meteors and Radiant Destructions.

You said that you wanted to reduce the ridiculous amount of zerging in this game. I'm not seeing it. Make siege useful, ffs.

As it stands, the balance of power during a siege is on the attackers side, never mind how much more so it is with lag, and the balance during any siege should always favor the defenders (unless they're vastly outnumbered). Otherwise, what's the point of defensive fortifications!?

This won't change ever though, because to get into a keep you do this.

Use Rapid (bye bye caltrops snares)
Use Purge/Purify (bye bye Oil Dot)
Use Barrier (bye bye other damage)
Use Immovable (bye bye CC)

Run inside and left/right, do not attack until at top of stairs (to save the rapid) then kill everyone still trying to oil.
Only a bad zerg group will lose to oil on an inner breach, I have never seen a quality TS group who know the above mechanics wipe entirely from a rush.

On topic however, I have to agree with others I have never seen any clue as to Siege weapons effecting damage based on armour prior to 1.6 (and I tested with people/armour/buffs) via PTS back when they announced Siege Shield would become an armour bonus rather than a mitigation percentage, nothing changed.

When I see guys shooting ballistas at me I should feel scared, I should want my team carrying siege weapon shields to guard me and my siege, not stand there shooting away giggling at the silly guy shooting me with a fire ballista.

i would like to add, that if my ideas above were implemented, it would become impossible to just force your way into a single gap with that much seige in it without losing a few or alot of members... you would have to at least open another hole to be able to enter freely.

again, direct hit and damage drops farther from base radius.