Champion system has given me no motivation to play
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SirEwan✭✭✭Yes, a few friends and guildmates are becoming demotivated because of the system also. In my opinion, I enjoy the fun in earning a new point and spending it to my advantage but I don't like it when all the players around me spend hours grinding the points to eventually become overpowering on the battlefield.
I think your suggestion of capping it at 1 CP per day is a very nice idea but unfortunately this means the same view I have will be had by many new players joining the game. They will seem underpowered in PvP when they hit VR14 because all around them there are players who have been playing longer and therefore are more powerful.
My own suggestion would be to lower the cap of champion points to maybe somewhere around 200(?) and obviously also lower the amount of CP it takes to unlock the high bonuses within the trees. This way at least at some point in the future, if you keep playing you will be on par with the other players. This would also implement a motivator. You can see that if you keep dedicated, you can also achieve this CP Rank, it's not something that is so far out of reach. Kind of like simply levelling to VR14.
This is relatable to the situation of Emperor now that I think of it. No skill involved in becoming an Emperor, just make sure you play a lot. It's this ridiculous system that has now been implemented game-wide.0 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Animal_Mother wrote: »I got this empty feeling entering Haderus the other day. All the familiar faces were gone. It was empty; stale.
They were off grinding CP. They'll come back soon and stomp you into the ground with their CP imbibed muscles.
2 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
Orly ? Let's do a poll then .0 -
AbraXuSeXile✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
These none competitive people one day might want to do PvE or PvP, Then will get excluded because they can't compete. This is when tunes are changed. This might not happen this month, but it will happen. INB4 LF3M Must have minimum 1200 CP.
I don't care if this is a stupid elder scrolls game, It's an MMO with progression, and it should be completable this life time. This is 2015 not some korean grind game.
Let me tell you a story about a game called Myth of soma, There was no max level, no capped stats you could level forever, You had your hardcore players at the top, the semi hardcore falling behind and the casuals still trying to kill kobs. First of all the game got no new players because it was impossible to catch up so the casuals quickly fell out of favour as they had no one to level with, then the semi hardcore realised they was getting slaughtered off the higher level's and couldn't compete so they quit also, so all that was left was the 'hardcore minority' who slowly quit also.
The people you are trying to say want this system will be the first to say F this.Edited by AbraXuSeXile on March 8, 2015 7:12PMAbraXuS
Grand Overlord Rank 50 [First EU]
Clan Leader of eXile
Gaming Community - Est. 1999
Crashing an EP Wedding | DK Emp | 1vX | Between Enemy Lines | Hate Video | 5 v Many3 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭You will never log in and think, "There's nothing I can do to advance my character, at least without a raid group. I've hit the wall"
You will never log in and know, "My character is done. There's nothing else I need to do to advance him! I rock!"
It's perception. Choose to like the opportunity for endless advancement, or let the responsibility to 'finish' drive you to madness. Keep in mind no actual prizes are awarded to the winner
(But PvP EXP does need to increase. ZOS, please look at the median player, not the top-end "follow the emperor around and spam talons/ impulse" group).
Edited by Snit on March 8, 2015 7:07PMSnit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The kind of not happy with vet levels was that of wanting wendys but having to go to burger king.
The kind of not happy with champion point is that of wanting wendys and not getting food at all.0 -
Rhakon✭✭✭Just turn off CS in Cyrodiil!
ZoS could balance all classes in PvP, and balance PvE with help of the CS!
best mmo system ever:) patent will come!0 -
washlov✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
what is the sense of this system? is it fun to click points in a nice looking linear system ?
there are already 3 skill/stat systems with items, skills and attributes, why need one more which will separate the players?
sometimes new items and raise lvl cap and new skills to learn and you have progress, but in the meantime the game is fair and let casuals catch up.0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
No it does not. Sage himself said at the Guild Summit that introducing the Champion System on TOP of the VR system would be IRRESPONSIBLE. Yet that is exactly what they did.
Introducing something half finished, bugged, and expecting people to wait another 6 months for the rest of this mythically better system to prove itself viable is not my idea of sense any more than it is to tie progression in it to XP still being earned through a vertical system they claim to want to remove.
NONE of this has anything whatseover to do with preferred playstyles at end game, learn to play new builds, and all this other nonesense you keep going on about.3 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭You will never log in and think, "There's nothing I can do to advance my character, at least without a raid group. I've hit the wall"
You will never log in and know, "My character is done. There's nothing else I need to do to advance him! I rock!"
It's perception. Choose to like the opportunity for endless advancement, or let the responsibility to 'finish' drive you to madness. Keep in mind no actual prizes are awarded to the winner
(But PvP EXP does need to increase. ZOS, please look at the median player, not the top-end "follow the emperor around and spam talons/ impulse" group).
Part of this is true. I log in and see this 120 CP passive in the steed that I really want to have.
But: this means a total of 360 CP, leaving 280 for me to aquire. Seeing that enlightened is worth 1 CP a day, this most likely means that I will need a year to get this. And then I'm at 1/10th of the whole system.
This "endless advancement" is a bit too endless in my eyes. At the same time it's too powerful to miss out on it. New/casual players won't be able to catch up. New content will have to be balanced for them (cause they're the majority of players), meaning that there is no challenge for the other group. On top of that you have the VR grind, which is a pain on its own.Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.1 -
Borders✭✭Imho the best type of endless progression has little to no effect on PvP but has visible merits in terms of appearance. Having the flaming horse mount makes you look cool. Having a character the one shots hardcore PvPers because you have more time to grind squirrels in some far off forest is not.
While long time players of every game need something to keep them logging in anything that affects PvP and to a lesser extent PvE balance should be a no no.
Realize new players should come after the games goes buy to play. A system like this in it's current form will be a daunting challenge for new players and casual players alike. Eventually like all games the requirements for dungeons will go up because the emphasis on speed and security will have players leaning in one direction. New players will be left out in the cold. In many games this means conforming to a certain build within the general "meta". All the while assuring others you are a gaming vet and can handle new content. The problem is no ones can make up for time.
Once other players get far ahead many others will be left out quite literally. While anybody investing time in the game deserves a reward the problem is the reward should not be to make the game easier just the character more prominent among peers. A system like this has the long term consequences of creating grand imbalances that would literally take years to overcome.
I think the only options are either to limit daily progress or allow for quicker exp gain and have some people rush the system in a matter of weeks while leaving it feasible for a casual player playing casually to catch up within a year. Then go back to the drawing board create "swag" items that reward hardcore grinders without affecting game play. if you are not willing to do that B2P won't be nearly as successful as it could have been.
I know this probably will get looked over but if you did read it thank you.Edited by Borders on March 8, 2015 7:34PM4 -
Olysja✭✭✭10x+ for Abraxus. totally true, that system sux. You had to do like: each day you gain enlightened buff for gain 1 point, just one without any chance to farm for a second one. Actually now that you modified all the [snip] way to farm cps my question is, those guys that exploted it to hell gaining 180+ Cps ? they are 60+ days ahead of all normal players now: )
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_MichelleA on March 8, 2015 7:33PMAre you a perfect russian woman? add me-> @Olysja (✿☯‿☯✿)
(EU)(EP) Olysja / Hortensius Capitolinus
(EU)(DC) My Heart for Cuties
(EU)(AD) City light painted girl0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Need one CP free Cyrodiil and probably make the sub-VR one CP free. Then those that want to grind for build will have their playground and those that don't can have theirs.
If they do that, I will just go play the non-CP version and not care if I'm called a casual or whatever. I just would rather play to have fun rather than feel compelled to try to keep up and burn myself out.0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »I also like it how I get punished xp-wise when I'm playing in a group bigger than two.
There's more to the Champion System than code and I appreciate the effort that has clearly been put into all of it. Trying without succeeding is still better than not trying at all.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »While overall a very nice piece of work, the Champion System has been designed without a single regard for the PvP side of ESO. No sane designer would come up with such ridiculously overpowered buffs and think it would not horribly skew the already questionable balance in Cyrodiil.
This nice piece of work took a day maximum to make by any crappy programmer.
Even the maths needed to do the system would be easy, all they did was nerf and recalculate the game to our old stats.
Edited by Lava_Croft on March 8, 2015 7:40PM0 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭what is the sense of this system? is it fun to click points in a nice looking linear system ?
Yes, it is fun to click points that advance your character. That's MMO progression. CP's ensure that people can always log in, play for a bit and get some tangible reward, a bit of progress.
I like the CP system. I understand some don't, but I don't share their need to be capped out and complete. I'd rather have an endless runway ahead, so I can keep clicking that progress button, even without a raid group.
This was always going to be controversial.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dislike that the PvP experience is so abysmal.
Almost all my progress on the Champion System thus far has been made via questing through Cadwell's Gold and Silver on a v1 alt.
Cadwell's netted me 4 Champion points in one evening of play.
PvP + Cyrodiil PvE quests netted me 1 Champion point over two days of play.
Beyond the massive disparity in the rate of Champion Point generation, actually like the system in its current format and am glad it will take so long to progress through.
Currently, the system provides many options to spec into with few points to do so. It provides for the capacity for people to build their characters in more unique ways.
Once the system starts getting maxed out it will be less interesting though, when the inevitable day comes that people have the better part of the system maxed out homogeneity will rule.
Was able to come to terms with the system being unrealistic for me to instantly max out.
Frustrated that the system requires me to rehash the same content for the third or forth time in order to generate enough points to get to the starting points of my planned Champion builds."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
firstdecan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't know why everyone is so upset. ZoS has changed the game and their target market. This is no longer a game for people who want challenging content, or who want to be competitive with each other.
The game is now for role players (which is fine), for people who like to run around and press E in random locations (which is fine), and for people who just want to mindlessly farm mats or the same dungeon all day (which is fine). Outside of those activities, this game is no longer for you. For multiplayer content, it's become a desktop version of a facebook game, a mindlessly banal experience lacking any depth of challenge. For single player content, it's a poor substitution for the sandbox experience of other TES games. All the "improvements" to the game are focused on playing the same mindless content for longer and longer periods of time, and the only content that is actually challenging, PvP, now has a barrier of entry that would take most players years to overcome before they could be competitive.
Welcome to Tamriel Unlimited, so named because that is the amount of time you will have to spend before you can get to enjoyable content.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
No it does not. Sage himself said at the Guild Summit that introducing the Champion System on TOP of the VR system would be IRRESPONSIBLE. Yet that is exactly what they did.
Introducing something half finished, bugged, and expecting people to wait another 6 months for the rest of this mythically better system to prove itself viable is not my idea of sense any more than it is to tie progression in it to XP still being earned through a vertical system they claim to want to remove.
NONE of this has anything whatseover to do with preferred playstyles at end game, learn to play new builds, and all this other nonesense you keep going on about.
I want the VR system gone, and that has nothing to do with this thread. The OP is upset about a game that offers constant horizontal progression. I like that option. So clearly, it's a difference in attitude and playstyle, which is why I keep going on about it.
You guys really want a game that's different from other MMOs? Then let ZO make it.----
Murray?0 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Once other players get far ahead many others will be left out quite literally.
Left out of what?
Certainly, a small core of extremely hardcore players will continue to grind out five or more points a day, and they'll form exclusive groups for Trials, etc. So, everyone else will be left off the top of the leaderboard. But they can still do the content. Assuming ZOS keeps balancing around 'normal' players, and not the top 2%, why would all those normal players be left out? If you can't get in groups with a 500 CP minimum, so what?
It'll be rougher in PvP. But there are already so many gross disparities in Cyrodiil, this is just another raindrop in a thunderstorm.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
washlov✭✭✭what is the sense of this system? is it fun to click points in a nice looking linear system ?
Yes, it is fun to click points that advance your character. That's MMO progression. CP's ensure that people can always log in, play for a bit and get some tangible reward, a bit of progress.
I like the CP system. I understand some don't, but I don't share their need to be capped out and complete. I'd rather have an endless runway ahead, so I can keep clicking that progress button, even without a raid group.
This was always going to be controversial.
yeah but why it needs four systems for that there are already stats skills and gear this should be enough to give you things to do
its a 24/7 farmer system which makes all things where you get not max xp feel wasting your time1 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭The two changes I would like to see, that would really help the new comers are:
1. Allow people to start earning cps from day 1.
2. Allow people to gain cp through crafting inspiration gain.
By the time they get to Vr they will have at least a few points to play with to help with the catching up process.0 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »[...]
There's more to the Champion System than code and I appreciate the effort that has clearly been put into all of it. Trying without succeeding is still better than not trying at all.
Where I work this is called research, and is never done if the customers actually want something they can use, and want it in a given timeframe. After all, this is not an elementary school theater group but a company that wants to earn money and make players stick with their product.nerevarine1138 wrote: »[...]
I want the VR system gone, and that has nothing to do with this thread. The OP is upset about a game that offers constant horizontal progression. I like that option. So clearly, it's a difference in attitude and playstyle, which is why I keep going on about it.
You guys really want a game that's different from other MMOs? Then let ZO make it.
To me, the whole CP system looks more like vertical progression. Whether you call it vertical or horizontal, it's still a system where new/casual players will NEVER be as good as the ones who spend/spent more time playing the game.Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.1 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭Champion System without new content = utter bs. Harsh words, but the truth.
You either brought CS with DSA or Upper Craglorn or with another kind of new content. CS without new content doesn't make any sense.1 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah but why it needs four systems for that there are already stats skills and gear this should be enough to give you things to do
its a 24/7 farmer system which makes all things where you get not max xp feel wasting your time
Because you can finish the other systems in a matter of months. CP is about keeping you interested for years. It won't work on everyone Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Champion System without new content = utter bs. Harsh words, but the truth.
You either brought CS with DSA or Upper Craglorn or with another kind of new content. CS without new content doesn't make any sense.
Agreed..
Champion System seems as though it was implemented as a way to increase the appeal of the existing content including things like Cadwell's Gold and Silver which have been looked down upon for reasons that the Champion System does not fix, and which many players have already finished.
For new players coming with the release of Tamriel Unlimited, the system should be pretty cool aside from feeling so far behind existing players.
For existing players...not clear on what the appeal is supposed to be; ZOS gave me a shiny new progression system with no meaningful way to progress through it aside from playing an alt."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
No it does not. Sage himself said at the Guild Summit that introducing the Champion System on TOP of the VR system would be IRRESPONSIBLE. Yet that is exactly what they did.
Introducing something half finished, bugged, and expecting people to wait another 6 months for the rest of this mythically better system to prove itself viable is not my idea of sense any more than it is to tie progression in it to XP still being earned through a vertical system they claim to want to remove.
NONE of this has anything whatseover to do with preferred playstyles at end game, learn to play new builds, and all this other nonesense you keep going on about.
I want the VR system gone, and that has nothing to do with this thread. The OP is upset about a game that offers constant horizontal progression. I like that option. So clearly, it's a difference in attitude and playstyle, which is why I keep going on about it.
You guys really want a game that's different from other MMOs? Then let ZO make it.
It has everything to do with it because we are still tied to it and everything we do within the Champion System is resting on it, so you cannot divorce one from the other since VR is still in the game. As far as the CS being horizontal progression, I completely disagree. What was proposed was. What we currently HAVE is not.
At this point, the difference I see between this and other MMOs is absolutely ZERO short of the IP.1 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
No it does not. Sage himself said at the Guild Summit that introducing the Champion System on TOP of the VR system would be IRRESPONSIBLE. Yet that is exactly what they did.
Introducing something half finished, bugged, and expecting people to wait another 6 months for the rest of this mythically better system to prove itself viable is not my idea of sense any more than it is to tie progression in it to XP still being earned through a vertical system they claim to want to remove.
NONE of this has anything whatseover to do with preferred playstyles at end game, learn to play new builds, and all this other nonesense you keep going on about.
I want the VR system gone, and that has nothing to do with this thread. The OP is upset about a game that offers constant horizontal progression. I like that option. So clearly, it's a difference in attitude and playstyle, which is why I keep going on about it.
You guys really want a game that's different from other MMOs? Then let ZO make it.
It has everything to do with it because we are still tied to it and everything we do within the Champion System is resting on it, so you cannot divorce one from the other since VR is still in the game. As far as the CS being horizontal progression, I completely disagree. What was proposed was. What we currently HAVE is not.
At this point, the difference I see between this and other MMOs is absolutely ZERO short of the IP.
Well in all fairness other MMO's don't normally flip flop by adding one system stacked on a system that's sitting on the shoulders of the other system . They just raise the level cap by 5 or 10 .0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
No it does not. Sage himself said at the Guild Summit that introducing the Champion System on TOP of the VR system would be IRRESPONSIBLE. Yet that is exactly what they did.
Introducing something half finished, bugged, and expecting people to wait another 6 months for the rest of this mythically better system to prove itself viable is not my idea of sense any more than it is to tie progression in it to XP still being earned through a vertical system they claim to want to remove.
NONE of this has anything whatseover to do with preferred playstyles at end game, learn to play new builds, and all this other nonesense you keep going on about.
I want the VR system gone, and that has nothing to do with this thread. The OP is upset about a game that offers constant horizontal progression. I like that option. So clearly, it's a difference in attitude and playstyle, which is why I keep going on about it.
You guys really want a game that's different from other MMOs? Then let ZO make it.
It has everything to do with it because we are still tied to it and everything we do within the Champion System is resting on it, so you cannot divorce one from the other since VR is still in the game. As far as the CS being horizontal progression, I completely disagree. What was proposed was. What we currently HAVE is not.
At this point, the difference I see between this and other MMOs is absolutely ZERO short of the IP.
Well in all fairness other MMO's don't normally flip flop by adding one system stacked on a system that's sitting on the shoulders of the other system . They just raise the level cap by 5 or 10 .
Hehe. I don't think I was going there, but true enough.
I was referring to the fact we are still tied to vertical progression, just as I have been in nearly every other MMO I have played.0 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »AbraXuSeXile wrote: »we are maximisers
And this is the heart of the problem (not unique to PvP).
A very small subset of gamers are so obsessed with having the biggest numbers on their imaginary charts that they literally cannot handle a system that emphasizes constant and varied character progression. And it's really annoying.
People keep complaining that ESO is trying too hard to be like other games. But the instant the developers actually add features that create new styles of play (Justice System, Champion System, etc.), people throw fits on the forums because it no longer resembles the old familiar MMO styles.
Its called being competitive, which isnt a small number of people. Anyone who is in a proper pvp or pve guild is a maximiser to be the best.
And the justice system and champion system has been done on many other games under different names, its nothing new except that they was completable in this life time.
And again, this is a change in the way that many MMO veterans approach their game. But no, most players aren't as "competitive" as you think. Most MMO players never see most endgame content. And this game is for everyone to enjoy, not just the min/maxers.
The CS takes the game closer to an Elder Scrolls game, which is a good thing. Your adventure in the prior games never ended; you just kept progressing. It's worked for years, but people need to give it a chance in an MMO setting instead of instantly declaring it terrible because it breaks with the traditional model.AbraXuSeXile wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Is something actually going to be done about the champion system? Its very apparent now that most of your playerbase doesn't like it, are you going to sit back and wait 5 months like you usually do or actually do something?
This was implemented because the playerbase asked for a change. There are some kinks that need to be ironed out, but they aren't changing back to a linear progression with a clear stopping point. Nor should they.
Show me where people asked for a system where they would take our stats and make us get them over the course of the next 10 years lol.
Undaunted grind was hard enough on the pvpers but we did it, but this system is baws.
Most ES veterans asked for a system that was more open and less of a definitive, level-capped endgame. And you don't have to "earn back" your stats. My characters are stronger now than they were pre-patch. If yours aren't, change your build.
Where are you getting this "most" from ?
These forums were a major source of the feedback. So were the Reddit AMAs, in-game feedback, etc. The developers were very up-front about why they were changing the leveling system, and it makes sense.
No it does not. Sage himself said at the Guild Summit that introducing the Champion System on TOP of the VR system would be IRRESPONSIBLE. Yet that is exactly what they did.
Introducing something half finished, bugged, and expecting people to wait another 6 months for the rest of this mythically better system to prove itself viable is not my idea of sense any more than it is to tie progression in it to XP still being earned through a vertical system they claim to want to remove.
NONE of this has anything whatseover to do with preferred playstyles at end game, learn to play new builds, and all this other nonesense you keep going on about.
I want the VR system gone, and that has nothing to do with this thread. The OP is upset about a game that offers constant horizontal progression. I like that option. So clearly, it's a difference in attitude and playstyle, which is why I keep going on about it.
You guys really want a game that's different from other MMOs? Then let ZO make it.
It has everything to do with it because we are still tied to it and everything we do within the Champion System is resting on it, so you cannot divorce one from the other since VR is still in the game. As far as the CS being horizontal progression, I completely disagree. What was proposed was. What we currently HAVE is not.
At this point, the difference I see between this and other MMOs is absolutely ZERO short of the IP.
Well in all fairness other MMO's don't normally flip flop by adding one system stacked on a system that's sitting on the shoulders of the other system . They just raise the level cap by 5 or 10 .
And bring up new content for those 5 or 10 levels. Zenimax doesn't.
2 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The last week of 1.5, I was having a blast and it was one of the best weeks i had on eso, and i was eager to log back in every day. Since the patch, i've lost all my motivation.
PvP doesn't attract me anymore, and that is mostly due to the nonsense ultimate regen system which i find completely stupid. That's coming from someone who spent 90% of his time in Cyro, and the other 10% farming plants so i could have tripots for my PvP sessions.
Now in PvP I feel like the only thing i'm doing is counting down the seconds until i get an ultimate while i'm getting Jesus Beamed by fotm templars who haven't figured out that the execute range is 50% and not 100% health, and also thinking to myself, wow, all this time i could be spending getting CP instead of this boring zergfest where now only numbers matter.
And yes i hate knowing the fact i will never be able to max out my character. At first i liked the CP system, thought it would give me even more incentive to play, but since then i've realised i'm going to need 3 times the amount of /played that i've done in the past year ( roughly 60 days) to get those total 3600 points. So if i spend my entire time grinding, it's going to take me over 150 days of /played grind time to reach that maximum. Who the hell wants to grind 3 years to get your old level back????
And don't tell me "just play the game don't grind", i've done (almost) every quest, every trial, every dungeon, countless achievements, all skyshards, every craft, levelled everything except 2 hander. There is almost nothing else to do for me then PvP and grinding. And since i find PvP completely boring since 1.6 (not because i get reked, i've found a pretty decent build to 1vX), and i don't want to grind for another 3 years, i really don't know what to do when i log on.
Strange thins is that everyone in my guild (To be fair there's one guy who's enjoying himself out of the 30 people) is completely depressed by this patch and has no more motivation either.
I'm off to play some starcraft
/rant off5
This discussion has been closed.