Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Also since people are missing how gdb works, here's a comparison. Free cost plus 35% max health is by far objectively superior to 33% of missing health plus medium magicka cost.

With 35k HP...
Dragonknight at 60% uses green dragon blood, gains back (35000 * 0.4) * 0.33 = 4620 HP (fun fact, blessing of protection in resto staff line costs less, adds a buff, heals consistently every time as opposed to being based on how far down you are, and hits all allies in front of you at the same time!). Dragonknight spends 2900ish magicka.

Sorcerer at 60% uses clannfear and immediately desummons it, gains back 35000 * 0.35 = 12250 HP.
-Sorcerer is refunded entire magicka cost of the spell in most offensive based magicka builds you'd want in 1.6 between rebate passive and cost reduction from 2pc light and 3x jewelry glyphs. Maybe sorc even puts in 20 or 30 champ points for spell cost reduction if they're frisky.

Let's do this again, let's say the same toons have been severely injured and want to save themselves.

Dragonknight at 20% HP punches green dragon blood twice. He gets one heal for 9240hp and a second one for 6191hp. Total health restored at about a cost of 5800+ magicka = 15341 hp.

Sorcerer at 20% HP punches his clannfear twice for heals. He gets two heals for 12250hp each. Total health restored at no cost = 24500hp.

Clear?

What build are you using with 35k HP and enough magicka to make clannfear free? Please stop spreading misinformation because you main a DK and are getting jealous.

Please stop spreading misinformation? There is a lot of misinformation floating around the forums, but it isn't coming from me . I play a sorc, nb, and dk enough to consider all three my "mains". And you might want to try actually making a build to see if it's doable or not prior to calling someone out as lying too .

Here's a non-optimized build that does pretty much what I said:
-You need 26100 total max magicka when wearing 5pc light seducer set, and 3x reduced spellcost enchanted rings. Clannfear comes out to right about 3940 magicka cost in the full setup outlined below this way (tested while character copy was active but it got wiped since, made a new pts toon to show it and explain below):

-3pc soulshine (jewelry), 5pc seducer (light armor), 3pc arena (weap + 2 armor)
-High Elf (Altmer) = 10% extra max magicka & . Undaunted = 6% extra max mag/hp/stam (1 heavy chest (1% max hp passive), 1 medium helm for max protection, 5pc seducer on rest of slots as light armor)
-Example bar setup includes degeneration (8% max hp + hot + spelldmg buff + dot), inner light (2099 crit rating + 5% max magicka), and clannfear. Gains +4% max magicka for having two mage guild abilities slotted.

-PTS toon w/ purple tri-stat food configured with 30 champ points for each tree = 90pts total spent (within a week for many players who already have 70 as of 1.6 patch).
-Champ points spent for spell cost reduction (30pts magician = 7.7% reduction in spell costs), received heals boost (30pts quick recovery = 7.7% boost to all incoming heals), and 30pts elfborn (10.8% boost to crit dmg/heals, unlocks 12% spell crit constellation passive)

-3552 * 1.25x = 4440 mag w/ 32 attribute points
-3660 * 1.15x = 4209 hp w/ 30 attribute points
-Mage mundus stone gives +2200mag with passive boosts included.

-PTS toon with only one mag set bonus ends up with 24302mag & 26501hp in Cyrodiil (inc. 5k hp from cyro zone everyone gets).
-On live we would, of course, be wearing the proper equipment, resulting in... the following:

-Seducer set gives: 945mag * 1.25 passives = 1181mag, 8% cost reduc, 2x mag regen bonuses, vr14 crafted
-Soulshine: 800mag * 1.25 passives = 1000mag, and spellcrit bonus, vr10 version
-Arena: 1039hp * 1.15 passives/slots = 1195hp, 945mag (not adding in this one's mag bonus due to template toon already having one bonus for magicka, to make it even), vr14 crafted

Live toon stats:
26,483mag (15% back passive "Rebate" on pet death/dismissal with 3940 magicka cost: 3972mag received back = FREE)
27,696hp (and an additional +8400 shield bubble from Hardened Ward incl. 33% from morph)

So yes, a scrap short of where I said... but only that. Just shy of 27.7k hp (+8400 bubble available) along with 26.5k magicka, free clannfear which heals 35% of your max health plus the 7.7% boost to all incoming heals (which counts for it), and another 1% from the 1pc heavy armor passive. Heal results in a health restoration of 10,537hp each time.

PTS toon "Fun Times With Sorcs" pictured, with notes annotated:
Full size here: http://i.imgur.com/E8Xz77R.jpg

(EDIT: Annotation regarding spell crit is incorrect, you'd actually be ~3% lower than the amount shown rather than higher. Oopsies...)

Also sporting huge spell cost reductions in the build to vastly increase the number of casts you can make with a given amount of magicka, includes two magicka regen set bonuses (amplified by 9% racial & 20% light armor passives on top of your natural regen, a little more on the main bar with 2 mage guild skills which is another 4%... easy enough to use overload on that bar, and shooting star on the off bar, though you do shed 2% max magicka at that point and 2% regen). Has a good chunk of crit between everything there, as well as a built-in ~4800 spell penetration rating from light armor, to boot (which works alongside something like Elemental Drain or other similar debuffs on enemies to raise damage significantly).

Now, can we get back to the actual discussion?

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Also since people are missing how gdb works, here's a comparison. Free cost plus 35% max health is by far objectively superior to 33% of missing health plus medium magicka cost.

With 35k HP...
Dragonknight at 60% uses green dragon blood, gains back (35000 * 0.4) * 0.33 = 4620 HP (fun fact, blessing of protection in resto staff line costs less, adds a buff, heals consistently every time as opposed to being based on how far down you are, and hits all allies in front of you at the same time!). Dragonknight spends 2900ish magicka.

Sorcerer at 60% uses clannfear and immediately desummons it, gains back 35000 * 0.35 = 12250 HP.
-Sorcerer is refunded entire magicka cost of the spell in most offensive based magicka builds you'd want in 1.6 between rebate passive and cost reduction from 2pc light and 3x jewelry glyphs. Maybe sorc even puts in 20 or 30 champ points for spell cost reduction if they're frisky.

Let's do this again, let's say the same toons have been severely injured and want to save themselves.

Dragonknight at 20% HP punches green dragon blood twice. He gets one heal for 9240hp and a second one for 6191hp. Total health restored at about a cost of 5800+ magicka = 15341 hp.

Sorcerer at 20% HP punches his clannfear twice for heals. He gets two heals for 12250hp each. Total health restored at no cost = 24500hp.

Clear?

What build are you using with 35k HP and enough magicka to make clannfear free? Please stop spreading misinformation because you main a DK and are getting jealous.

Please stop spreading misinformation? There is a lot of misinformation floating around the forums, but it isn't coming from me . I play a sorc, nb, and dk enough to consider all three my "mains". And you might want to try actually making a build to see if it's doable or not prior to calling someone out as lying too .

Here's a non-optimized build that does pretty much what I said:
-You need 26100 total max magicka when wearing 5pc light seducer set, and 3x reduced spellcost enchanted rings. Clannfear comes out to right about 3940 magicka cost in the full setup outlined below this way (tested while character copy was active but it got wiped since, made a new pts toon to show it and explain below):

-3pc soulshine (jewelry), 5pc seducer (light armor), 3pc arena (weap + 2 armor)
-High Elf (Altmer) = 10% extra max magicka & . Undaunted = 6% extra max mag/hp/stam (1 heavy chest (1% max hp passive), 1 medium helm for max protection, 5pc seducer on rest of slots as light armor)
-Example bar setup includes degeneration (8% max hp + hot + spelldmg buff + dot), inner light (2099 crit rating + 5% max magicka), and clannfear. Gains +4% max magicka for having two mage guild abilities slotted.

-PTS toon w/ purple tri-stat food configured with 30 champ points for each tree = 90pts total spent (within a week for many players who already have 70 as of 1.6 patch).
-Champ points spent for spell cost reduction (30pts magician = 7.7% reduction in spell costs), received heals boost (30pts quick recovery = 7.7% boost to all incoming heals), and 30pts elfborn (10.8% boost to crit dmg/heals, unlocks 12% spell crit constellation passive)

-3552 * 1.25x = 4440 mag w/ 32 attribute points
-3660 * 1.15x = 4209 hp w/ 30 attribute points
-Mage mundus stone gives +2200mag with passive boosts included.

-PTS toon with only one mag set bonus ends up with 24302mag & 26501hp in Cyrodiil (inc. 5k hp from cyro zone everyone gets).
-On live we would, of course, be wearing the proper equipment, resulting in... the following:

-Seducer set gives: 945mag * 1.25 passives = 1181mag, 8% cost reduc, 2x mag regen bonuses, vr14 crafted
-Soulshine: 800mag * 1.25 passives = 1000mag, and spellcrit bonus, vr10 version
-Arena: 1039hp * 1.15 passives/slots = 1195hp, 945mag (not adding in this one's mag bonus due to template toon already having one bonus for magicka, to make it even), vr14 crafted

Live toon stats:
26,483mag (15% back passive "Rebate" on pet death/dismissal with 3940 magicka cost: 3972mag received back = FREE)
27,696hp (and an additional +8400 shield bubble from Hardened Ward incl. 33% from morph)

So yes, a scrap short of where I said... but only that. Just shy of 27.7k hp (+8400 bubble available) along with 26.5k magicka, free clannfear which heals 35% of your max health plus the 7.7% boost to all incoming heals (which counts for it), and another 1% from the 1pc heavy armor passive. Heal results in a health restoration of 10,537hp each time.

PTS toon "Fun Times With Sorcs" pictured, with notes annotated:
Full size here: http://i.imgur.com/E8Xz77R.jpg

(EDIT: Annotation regarding spell crit is incorrect, you'd actually be ~3% lower than the amount shown rather than higher. Oopsies...)

Also sporting huge spell cost reductions in the build to vastly increase the number of casts you can make with a given amount of magicka, includes two magicka regen set bonuses (amplified by 9% racial & 20% light armor passives on top of your natural regen, a little more on the main bar with 2 mage guild skills which is another 4%... easy enough to use overload on that bar, and shooting star on the off bar, though you do shed 2% max magicka at that point and 2% regen). Has a good chunk of crit between everything there, as well as a built-in ~4800 spell penetration rating from light armor, to boot (which works alongside something like Elemental Drain or other similar debuffs on enemies to raise damage significantly).

Now, can we get back to the actual discussion?

Cyrodiil bonus HP isn't included in the clannfear heals sooooo no you are still spreading misinformation. You were just 12.5k off your HP guess.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Also since people are missing how gdb works, here's a comparison. Free cost plus 35% max health is by far objectively superior to 33% of missing health plus medium magicka cost.

With 35k HP...
Dragonknight at 60% uses green dragon blood, gains back (35000 * 0.4) * 0.33 = 4620 HP (fun fact, blessing of protection in resto staff line costs less, adds a buff, heals consistently every time as opposed to being based on how far down you are, and hits all allies in front of you at the same time!). Dragonknight spends 2900ish magicka.

Sorcerer at 60% uses clannfear and immediately desummons it, gains back 35000 * 0.35 = 12250 HP.
-Sorcerer is refunded entire magicka cost of the spell in most offensive based magicka builds you'd want in 1.6 between rebate passive and cost reduction from 2pc light and 3x jewelry glyphs. Maybe sorc even puts in 20 or 30 champ points for spell cost reduction if they're frisky.

Let's do this again, let's say the same toons have been severely injured and want to save themselves.

Dragonknight at 20% HP punches green dragon blood twice. He gets one heal for 9240hp and a second one for 6191hp. Total health restored at about a cost of 5800+ magicka = 15341 hp.

Sorcerer at 20% HP punches his clannfear twice for heals. He gets two heals for 12250hp each. Total health restored at no cost = 24500hp.

Clear?

What build are you using with 35k HP and enough magicka to make clannfear free? Please stop spreading misinformation because you main a DK and are getting jealous.

Please stop spreading misinformation? There is a lot of misinformation floating around the forums, but it isn't coming from me . I play a sorc, nb, and dk enough to consider all three my "mains". And you might want to try actually making a build to see if it's doable or not prior to calling someone out as lying too .

Here's a non-optimized build that does pretty much what I said:
-You need 26100 total max magicka when wearing 5pc light seducer set, and 3x reduced spellcost enchanted rings. Clannfear comes out to right about 3940 magicka cost in the full setup outlined below this way (tested while character copy was active but it got wiped since, made a new pts toon to show it and explain below):

-3pc soulshine (jewelry), 5pc seducer (light armor), 3pc arena (weap + 2 armor)
-High Elf (Altmer) = 10% extra max magicka & . Undaunted = 6% extra max mag/hp/stam (1 heavy chest (1% max hp passive), 1 medium helm for max protection, 5pc seducer on rest of slots as light armor)
-Example bar setup includes degeneration (8% max hp + hot + spelldmg buff + dot), inner light (2099 crit rating + 5% max magicka), and clannfear. Gains +4% max magicka for having two mage guild abilities slotted.

-PTS toon w/ purple tri-stat food configured with 30 champ points for each tree = 90pts total spent (within a week for many players who already have 70 as of 1.6 patch).
-Champ points spent for spell cost reduction (30pts magician = 7.7% reduction in spell costs), received heals boost (30pts quick recovery = 7.7% boost to all incoming heals), and 30pts elfborn (10.8% boost to crit dmg/heals, unlocks 12% spell crit constellation passive)

-3552 * 1.25x = 4440 mag w/ 32 attribute points
-3660 * 1.15x = 4209 hp w/ 30 attribute points
-Mage mundus stone gives +2200mag with passive boosts included.

-PTS toon with only one mag set bonus ends up with 24302mag & 26501hp in Cyrodiil (inc. 5k hp from cyro zone everyone gets).
-On live we would, of course, be wearing the proper equipment, resulting in... the following:

-Seducer set gives: 945mag * 1.25 passives = 1181mag, 8% cost reduc, 2x mag regen bonuses, vr14 crafted
-Soulshine: 800mag * 1.25 passives = 1000mag, and spellcrit bonus, vr10 version
-Arena: 1039hp * 1.15 passives/slots = 1195hp, 945mag (not adding in this one's mag bonus due to template toon already having one bonus for magicka, to make it even), vr14 crafted

Live toon stats:
26,483mag (15% back passive "Rebate" on pet death/dismissal with 3940 magicka cost: 3972mag received back = FREE)
27,696hp (and an additional +8400 shield bubble from Hardened Ward incl. 33% from morph)

So yes, a scrap short of where I said... but only that. Just shy of 27.7k hp (+8400 bubble available) along with 26.5k magicka, free clannfear which heals 35% of your max health plus the 7.7% boost to all incoming heals (which counts for it), and another 1% from the 1pc heavy armor passive. Heal results in a health restoration of 10,537hp each time.

PTS toon "Fun Times With Sorcs" pictured, with notes annotated:
Full size here: http://i.imgur.com/E8Xz77R.jpg

(EDIT: Annotation regarding spell crit is incorrect, you'd actually be ~3% lower than the amount shown rather than higher. Oopsies...)

Also sporting huge spell cost reductions in the build to vastly increase the number of casts you can make with a given amount of magicka, includes two magicka regen set bonuses (amplified by 9% racial & 20% light armor passives on top of your natural regen, a little more on the main bar with 2 mage guild skills which is another 4%... easy enough to use overload on that bar, and shooting star on the off bar, though you do shed 2% max magicka at that point and 2% regen). Has a good chunk of crit between everything there, as well as a built-in ~4800 spell penetration rating from light armor, to boot (which works alongside something like Elemental Drain or other similar debuffs on enemies to raise damage significantly).

Now, can we get back to the actual discussion?

Cyrodiil bonus HP isn't included in the clannfear heals sooooo no you are still spreading misinformation. You were just 12.5k off your HP guess.

As of 1.6.3 it worked including that, as it should. If it's broken in 1.6.4 you should file a bug report with repro steps. You're welcome for the build .

edit: youre right about cyrodiil buff now. wasnt like that earlier when i tested. ok u are only 7.5k hp wrong now.

Just curious

Sorc tank? In 1.6? Where cloth has 1/4 of the armor of plate?

I LOVED my Sorc in 1.5 or less. I'd jump in, pop my PERMANENT razor armor (which looks SO cool), and aoe/crit/self heal.

I just wonder about the mana regen if sorcs are using plate, or their melee survivability in 1.6 if they are using cloth

Snit wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I think it's hilarious that people who are not Sorcs think Sorcs are in great shape based on their (anecdotal) performance in 1v1 PvP.

First of all, where the heck is all this 1v1 PvP happening? 'Cause it sure ain't happening anywhere in Cyrodiil I've ever been. Here's my Sorc's experience: .

There are guilds focused on 1v1 and duels. Some of the more skilled players stream. Devs watch those streams.

Im an avid group PVPer. And while I want PvP to be competitive, one simply cannot judge PvP based on duels and arrainged 1v1 pvp.

The main reason why is that you can premeditate what skill set and gear you will wear. In this game-- gear matters a lot; especially with the set gears that give x, y, z bonuses.

I mean lets say you were to duel a DK-- well get that flame resist gear, those anti healing gear/skills, and go to town.

Its like Shadowbane charters-- if I knew I was going to fight mass holy dps-- well im gonan wear 75% resist to holy, and totally negate prelate and nukersader builds.

Its the total picture that counts in a large scale pvp MMO

Keepercraft wrote: »

Did Templar are sill best healer then mage with healing staff?

other players yes,

a health focused Tank Sorc's self heals will be better than a Similar Templar, but Templars are still undisputed in terms of healing groups, big or small..

Breath of life is likely always going to be the king of friendly heals.

i would also like to mention as someone commented above, NBs mark target has always been a insane self heal, but it is only useful against groups of trash enemies where a kill can be made easily.. against boss fights in terms of self healing alone NBs have always been weak, with only the power of Veil to help them midigate damage, something DKS always had better in the form of Magma Armor.

The lag issue can't be overstated. The Volatile Familiar was completely unusable long before any other skill became unusable in laggy situations. I don't see how the Unstable Clannfear will be any different.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I've never seen any extra issues with the pets vs. any other skills in the game when Cyrodiil is having latency problems. Just like every other skill, it's impacted too. With no extra net lag though, there are no usability issues at all on the pet cycling... I could do a hundred of them in a row while running and jumping all over the place if I wanted to and not fail once. It's timing, just like any other combination of button presses in the game .

But you can easily get 3 Dragon Blood heals in a row off quicker or as quick as a Sorc can summon/unsummon the clannfear twice. Look, I know you put out all these DK parses doing super high damage and also do videos of DK in PVP and you really are scared of another class having a heal that is similar in relative power all things considered. It is okay though that Sorc has this heal. I wish it wasn't so clunky to cast though as I'm sure myself and many others will be routinely raging at having it misfire in laggy PVP battles. The DK can just spam their heal with no issue while it is laggy and they're sure that if anything gets through the lag, they'll be healed. Sorc do not have that luxury.

Exstazik wrote: »

familiar costs 6000 magicka without any reduce.....

jelliedsoup wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

O yeah, NB get's a full heal that only costs 1000 magicka. Wait...nope, that was a dream.

You have sap essence and strife.

Sap is not a reliable ability in it's current state with 1.6.

It doesn't heal at all period once the heal AOE cap is passed. An example that would be similar to display this concept and to promote the clarity of the bug is healing springs not healing anyone if the target group is larger than it's aoe cap. Healing springs certainly doesn't work that way however sap is.

Think I will wait until Sorcerers take the lead in any role (DPS, Healing, Tanking) before I start taking any discussion of them being OP serious.

Artemis wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

O yeah, NB get's a full heal that only costs 1000 magicka. Wait...nope, that was a dream.

You have sap essence and strife.

Facepalm. They are much weaker. Also, let's not forget about PvE. If you haven't tried to find a group for the vDSA weekly as a non-dk/templar tank getting rejected because you're not dk/temp or getting ignored at all, then you better not say anything about self-heals, okay?

So, it looks like in 1.6 only 1 class won't be able to tank everything as reliable. Hopefully, they give NBs something too. Really glad they helped sorc-tanks, now it's time to bring NBs on par with others.

Face palm to you my good sir, I'm an nb who was trying the old reverse irony switch.

As an nb i care not for healing. .cannot wait to mark target in 1.6....

Double facepalm then. You didn't even read my post. I was talking about PvE tanking and namely about the last fight in vDSA using good old timers thing, which is employed by most of the groups/players. Please, tell me how do you tank it as a nb? Using sap essence and strife only? Or maybe mark target will help? You are not the only nb out there. And some of us do care about healing especially when it makes the difference between "sure, let's go" and "no, we will look for another tank" or worse - ignore.

indeed, do you know what "also"means?

So... want your torch back? We barely used it

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Also since people are missing how gdb works, here's a comparison. Free cost plus 35% max health is by far objectively superior to 33% of missing health plus medium magicka cost.

With 35k HP...
Dragonknight at 60% uses green dragon blood, gains back (35000 * 0.4) * 0.33 = 4620 HP (fun fact, blessing of protection in resto staff line costs less, adds a buff, heals consistently every time as opposed to being based on how far down you are, and hits all allies in front of you at the same time!). Dragonknight spends 2900ish magicka.

Sorcerer at 60% uses clannfear and immediately desummons it, gains back 35000 * 0.35 = 12250 HP.
-Sorcerer is refunded entire magicka cost of the spell in most offensive based magicka builds you'd want in 1.6 between rebate passive and cost reduction from 2pc light and 3x jewelry glyphs. Maybe sorc even puts in 20 or 30 champ points for spell cost reduction if they're frisky.

Let's do this again, let's say the same toons have been severely injured and want to save themselves.

Dragonknight at 20% HP punches green dragon blood twice. He gets one heal for 9240hp and a second one for 6191hp. Total health restored at about a cost of 5800+ magicka = 15341 hp.

Sorcerer at 20% HP punches his clannfear twice for heals. He gets two heals for 12250hp each. Total health restored at no cost = 24500hp.

Clear?

No.

Sorcerer at 20% HP begins to punch her clannfear and then gets bashed, venom arrowed, invaded, crushing shocked, blazing speared, or just dies from DoTs or from a random fire ballista bolt before the clannfear ever appears. Total health restored = - 20% (i.e. death).

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

PTS toon "Fun Times With Sorcs" pictured, with notes annotated:
Full size here: http://i.imgur.com/E8Xz77R.jpg

(EDIT: Annotation regarding spell crit is incorrect, you'd actually be ~3% lower than the amount shown rather than higher. Oopsies...)

Now, can we get back to the actual discussion?

Ya got 9k stam. Heal only works if you aren't cc'd. They gutted it anyway, I'm glad they can follow advice that appears to be thorough