pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

Tweaked some spells to make them extremely good, in certain cases some of the best in the game like:

Liquid Lightning, the absolute strongest DOT in the game.
Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.
Hardened Ward, survivability level = 9000.
Twilight, free 500-1K DPS for doing nothing.
Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.
Crystal Frags, procs do massive damage and cost nothing. Cast time also decreased.
Mages Fury, always awesome still awesome. Better now that all Mag Sorcs wil lstack Spell dmg and none of that Weapon Damage crap.
Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.
Thundering Presence, decent DOT .. also pretty much free DPS on a 20 second timer.

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

My Sorc will be the first char I get ready for endgame when the servers come up tomorrow (EU). The rest can wait.

Jahosefat wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

lol, we got nothing else viable, everything else we got is highly situational. And we're still the worst class, no matter if it's healing, tanking or dps. I mean, asking the adds to nicely stand in that 10 sec AoE of ours and let it tickle them? Or stand for 5 minutes and charge a spell that's barely viable anyway.

Well, that's what I said, you clearly can't figure out what's viable. You should change the thread title to "Farewall my Sorc class" because mostly everyone else is already doing well with their Sorcs in 1.6.

Then again, you just wanted to whine.. so carry on.

You are so constructive these days

Hahaha I know right.. my constructive days are well over. Or rather, I'll give answers according to how the question is asked. If people ask questions because they want an honest and good answer, I'll give it (see above).. if people ask questions and it's obvious that they don't want the answer because they've already made their mind up and just want to continue whining forever.. yeah. I've had enough of people telling me my ideas and builds are *** because they can't deal with rotations that involve more than one button.

Liquid Lightning good DOT only for standing boss.Useless PvP
Daedric Prey is ok
Hardened Ward scale only from magicka not ok
Twilight scale better from magicka not ok
Bound Armaments,well...will be ok with extra slot
Crystal Frags non proc is ok.Proc still not instant-not ok
Mages Fury,-without disentegrate proc worst finisher

a small nerf to Surge...down from 50% to 20% it's small?!


About PvP 90% of our class skills reflectable/blockable

Exstazik wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

Tweaked some spells to make them extremely good, in certain cases some of the best in the game like:

Liquid Lightning, the absolute strongest DOT in the game.
Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.
Hardened Ward, survivability level = 9000.
Twilight, free 500-1K DPS for doing nothing.
Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.
Crystal Frags, procs do massive damage and cost nothing. Cast time also decreased.
Mages Fury, always awesome still awesome. Better now that all Mag Sorcs wil lstack Spell dmg and none of that Weapon Damage crap.
Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.
Thundering Presence, decent DOT .. also pretty much free DPS on a 20 second timer.

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

My Sorc will be the first char I get ready for endgame when the servers come up tomorrow (EU). The rest can wait.

Jahosefat wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

lol, we got nothing else viable, everything else we got is highly situational. And we're still the worst class, no matter if it's healing, tanking or dps. I mean, asking the adds to nicely stand in that 10 sec AoE of ours and let it tickle them? Or stand for 5 minutes and charge a spell that's barely viable anyway.

Well, that's what I said, you clearly can't figure out what's viable. You should change the thread title to "Farewall my Sorc class" because mostly everyone else is already doing well with their Sorcs in 1.6.

Then again, you just wanted to whine.. so carry on.

You are so constructive these days

Hahaha I know right.. my constructive days are well over. Or rather, I'll give answers according to how the question is asked. If people ask questions because they want an honest and good answer, I'll give it (see above).. if people ask questions and it's obvious that they don't want the answer because they've already made their mind up and just want to continue whining forever.. yeah. I've had enough of people telling me my ideas and builds are *** because they can't deal with rotations that involve more than one button.

Liquid Lightning good DOT only for standing boss.Useless PvP
Daedric Prey is ok
Hardened Ward scale only from magicka not ok
Twilight scale better from magicka not ok
Bound Armaments,well...will be ok with extra slot
Crystal Frags non proc is ok.Proc still not instant-not ok
Mages Fury,-without disentegrate proc worst finisher

a small nerf to Surge...down from 50% to 20% it's small?!


About PvP 90% of our class skills reflectable/blockable

I was going to comment on this, but I won't. You can think that your skills are bad if you want. Reroll another class and you'll actually see.

Someone very smart said something like this in another thread:

People who only play Sorcerers think that Sorcerers suck. People who play Sorcerers and other classes think they are good.

Not necessarily always true, but it's proven to be true a lot lately. Grass is always greener on the other side.

Exstazik wrote: »

About PvP 90% of our class skills reflectable/blockable

lol I remember when the execute part of mage's fury was reflectable #PVPproblems

I think a lot of balance in PVP will depend on how much damage people can pump out of MA early on; but we will see. There is an outstanding NB who doesn't talk much on the forum but quoted these numbers:

It is. On PTS all melee moves hit harder than bow.

Let me give you an idea.

Ambush for me hits for 35k
Uppercut 59k
conceal 43k
Snipe 32k

That is pretty balanced.

lol I'm not sure any build relying on bubbles for their main damage mitigation will be able to compete with the super-inflated melee damage. Block-casting will probably be a much tougher build strategy but I'm not sure you can put out enough damage early on to kill anyone. We will see, I'm going to try to go with some LA and mag/bubble build at first but if I keep getting blown up by ambushes then hello hardcore block casting.

Seraphyel wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

Tweaked some spells to make them extremely good, in certain cases some of the best in the game like:

Liquid Lightning, the absolute strongest DOT in the game.
Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.
Hardened Ward, survivability level = 9000.
Twilight, free 500-1K DPS for doing nothing.
Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.
Crystal Frags, procs do massive damage and cost nothing. Cast time also decreased.
Mages Fury, always awesome still awesome. Better now that all Mag Sorcs wil lstack Spell dmg and none of that Weapon Damage crap.
Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.
Thundering Presence, decent DOT .. also pretty much free DPS on a 20 second timer.

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

My Sorc will be the first char I get ready for endgame when the servers come up tomorrow (EU). The rest can wait.

Jahosefat wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

lol, we got nothing else viable, everything else we got is highly situational. And we're still the worst class, no matter if it's healing, tanking or dps. I mean, asking the adds to nicely stand in that 10 sec AoE of ours and let it tickle them? Or stand for 5 minutes and charge a spell that's barely viable anyway.

Well, that's what I said, you clearly can't figure out what's viable. You should change the thread title to "Farewall my Sorc class" because mostly everyone else is already doing well with their Sorcs in 1.6.

Then again, you just wanted to whine.. so carry on.

You are so constructive these days

Hahaha I know right.. my constructive days are well over. Or rather, I'll give answers according to how the question is asked. If people ask questions because they want an honest and good answer, I'll give it (see above).. if people ask questions and it's obvious that they don't want the answer because they've already made their mind up and just want to continue whining forever.. yeah. I've had enough of people telling me my ideas and builds are *** because they can't deal with rotations that involve more than one button.

Liquid Lightning good DOT only for standing boss.Useless PvP
Daedric Prey is ok
Hardened Ward scale only from magicka not ok
Twilight scale better from magicka not ok
Bound Armaments,well...will be ok with extra slot
Crystal Frags non proc is ok.Proc still not instant-not ok
Mages Fury,-without disentegrate proc worst finisher

a small nerf to Surge...down from 50% to 20% it's small?!


About PvP 90% of our class skills reflectable/blockable

I was going to comment on this, but I won't. You can think that your skills are bad if you want. Reroll another class and you'll actually see.

Someone very smart said something like this in another thread:

People who only play Sorcerers think that Sorcerers suck. People who play Sorcerers and other classes think they are good.

Not necessarily always true, but it's proven to be true a lot lately. Grass is always greener on the other side.

I think you are not totally wrong, but you are exaggerating in some points and that doesn't help the discussion.

Honestly though, where did I exaggerate here? What I wrote about the skills is in my opinion 100% correct, and in cases like LL it's not an opinion but rather a fact. Looking at that damage per second for a 10 sec cast, I haven't found anything that does that much damage. It's a 14K dot, not counting crits.

Derra wrote: »

Well destro sorc is mostly fine. There is really nothing to complain about apart from pet builds having about 10 to 15% more dps than non pet specs.

I think a bigger problem than builds is actually gearing your character properly for dps. The old sets and jewelry enchants are no longer vaible and most ppl i´ve talked to have not realized that.

Don't think the first statement is true. I know people have managed 12-13K+ without pets ( 70CP ) and that's the highest I've seen any pet build do too.

Your 2nd statement is very correct tho. All gear needs to be replaced and in many cases by fairly obscure ones as well.. like chest drops and PvP vendor stuff. I've already collected all mine but I guess a lot of people haven't thought about that yet. Also I hate that gear is less diverse than ever, now there's really only one combo that even works. With maybe a variety of Undaunted sets but nothing else

+ the fact that all top end PVE gear is among the worst gear you can find. I started PVPing instead lately, there will be no reason anyways to do anything in PVE anymore..

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

It was nice having this class in ESO, now it's a thing of the past.

Speak for yourself.

People have no idea how OP Sorc actually is. Just because you no longer have an ultimate in the game that rates 15 out 10 on the OP scale doesn't mean you are no longer viable. Sorc is still amazing powerful.

Here is something I posted a few weeks ago about Sorc's and why they needed to be nerfed

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151074/discussion-of-sorcerer-changes-and-its-impact-on-pvp-mechanics-group-play#latest

Oh and also...Negate is still the most powerful ultimate in PvP. It removes infinite amount of current ground effects! 5 Banners, 2 nova's and a veil on the ground? Ohh Negate BYE-BYE!

Not many Sorcs play Sorcs the way they should be. I'll let some of ya'll figure that out in time.

pppontus wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Stamina Sorc is totally gimped though! Yes, every class can do good DPS just spamming Wrecking Blow, but think about what the 1.5 stam sorc had and think about what the 1.6 stam sorc has.... 1.5 stam Sorc had 10% cost reduction on some of the best spells they use (surge, lightning form, bolt escape) as well as the one true real advantage of a stam sorc - THE HIGHEST WEAPON DMG IN GAME! That last thing there was the whole reason to be a stamina sorc. You could stack weapon dmg to levels that other classes could not. Now, with Rally >>> Crit Surge, there is no more advantage and we also lost the 10% cost reduction. In addition, all other classes gained stamina morphs that are useful while the Sorc only got a 2 slot taking up toggle that does no direect damage itself. I don't even count dark deal, as it is useless to channel with a melee character.

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Overload

Overload and Power Overload will now properly scale their damage off Weapon Damage and Stamina in the event that they are higher than Spell Power and Magicka.

If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.

Aren't all ultimates scaling from Stam+Weapon Damage if this is higher? I believe this above was just a bugfix as Overload was not doing that at the time of the changes (while all other ultimates were).

You may be right and it may be a bug fix, but I also kind of remember reading that a lot of other ultimates are only scaling on stamina or magicka.... so perhaps the stamina buff for Sorc with Overload is that it takes weapon damage into account as well. Either way, it is just sad to see the two (or three) stamina things they listed for Sorc in all of the PTS patch notes while other classes got so much. It was almost as if ZOS made the conscious decision that they no longer want Sorcs to be able to be stamina based, which makes no sense considering all three other classes can be either stamina or magicka.

pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

This is the most counter-factual statement I've ever read on this forum.

#1) The Surge Cooldown is not in any way, shape or form a "small nerf". The effect of the cooldown is to totally kill any synergy Surge has with AOE damage spells during combat with multiple mobs. I used to be able solo tough mobs like the spiders at Spindleclutch... now I can't. Clannfear de-summoning, bubble shields, Resto staff.... NONE of that stuff works as fast or effectively as Surge healing!

#2) PVP balance is an oxymoron. Fix one issue, and they just start complaining about something else: shield stacking, block-casting... whatever. Destroying a class defining skill to preempt PVP whiners was totally uncalled for. I don't even want to HEAR about PVP and their endless grievances. They already ruined Bolt Escape, now they've killed Negate and Surge, too!

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

what is horrible is that 95% of the build with highest dps that people have come up with so far involves pets. hte other 5% has no pets but less dps.

forced into pets is just wrong. play the way you want is what they say but so far with 1.6 is forced pets or you lose dps.

And how would people who wanted pets to be viable pre 1.6 have felt? No matter which build would parse higher dps there will be someone who feels left out. Now there are builds out there that can reach high numbers without pets, and some of them probably yet to be found. Pet builds still have some flaws in them but if you are neglecting 1/3 of your classes skill lines (potentially) then there might be some complications that could theoretically come along.

From comparing the builds people are posting Sorcs (pet and non pet builds) don't seem to be in a bad place, encounters might actually determine which of the builds might be more viable (as the limited UI will limit pets usefullness at times).

pppontus wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

Tweaked some spells to make them extremely good, in certain cases some of the best in the game like:

Liquid Lightning, the absolute strongest DOT in the game.
Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.
Hardened Ward, survivability level = 9000.
Twilight, free 500-1K DPS for doing nothing.
Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.
Crystal Frags, procs do massive damage and cost nothing. Cast time also decreased.
Mages Fury, always awesome still awesome. Better now that all Mag Sorcs wil lstack Spell dmg and none of that Weapon Damage crap.
Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.
Thundering Presence, decent DOT .. also pretty much free DPS on a 20 second timer.

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

My Sorc will be the first char I get ready for endgame when the servers come up tomorrow (EU). The rest can wait.

Jahosefat wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

lol, we got nothing else viable, everything else we got is highly situational. And we're still the worst class, no matter if it's healing, tanking or dps. I mean, asking the adds to nicely stand in that 10 sec AoE of ours and let it tickle them? Or stand for 5 minutes and charge a spell that's barely viable anyway.

Well, that's what I said, you clearly can't figure out what's viable. You should change the thread title to "Farewall my Sorc class" because mostly everyone else is already doing well with their Sorcs in 1.6.

Then again, you just wanted to whine.. so carry on.

You are so constructive these days

Hahaha I know right.. my constructive days are well over. Or rather, I'll give answers according to how the question is asked. If people ask questions because they want an honest and good answer, I'll give it (see above).. if people ask questions and it's obvious that they don't want the answer because they've already made their mind up and just want to continue whining forever.. yeah. I've had enough of people telling me my ideas and builds are *** because they can't deal with rotations that involve more than one button.

Liquid Lightning good DOT only for standing boss.Useless PvP
Daedric Prey is ok
Hardened Ward scale only from magicka not ok
Twilight scale better from magicka not ok
Bound Armaments,well...will be ok with extra slot
Crystal Frags non proc is ok.Proc still not instant-not ok
Mages Fury,-without disentegrate proc worst finisher

a small nerf to Surge...down from 50% to 20% it's small?!


About PvP 90% of our class skills reflectable/blockable

I was going to comment on this, but I won't. You can think that your skills are bad if you want. Reroll another class and you'll actually see.

Someone very smart said something like this in another thread:

People who only play Sorcerers think that Sorcerers suck. People who play Sorcerers and other classes think they are good.

Not necessarily always true, but it's proven to be true a lot lately. Grass is always greener on the other side.

I primarily play sorc and I don't think they suck XD. NB would be second played but it would be a max of like 10 % time played.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Every person in this thread that is trying desperately to keep up the illusion that "Sorcs are fine" does not play a sorc as their main or has other V14 classes they can play when the get tired of the extra work sorcs have to put in to be competitive.

Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.

Really? This skill is a win button? Didn't know that. Next time I'm fighting any melee powerful class I will just cast mines, then type the /sleep emote and take a fat nap in the center of my mines while everything dies around me.

Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.

TWO Slots

Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.

Nuke? OK. I'm done here. There are clearly people that despise the sorc class so much that they don't even sanity check their posts.

Without listing names, several major sorc players are now rolling other classes. I am sure there are more than the ones I know about.

The class is dying because it is simply not as fun or rewarding to play anymore (compared to other classes) as it took a high level of skill to play effectively and mistakes are much more costly than with other classes.

2H sorc was the most fun I have ever had in this game but melee sorc is the most neglected of all sorcs, storm calling skills cost too much for medium armor sorcs, and sorcs lack stamina effective survivability.

I will be playing my templar as either melee or magicka as templars are much better casters than sorcs in this new patch.

Well for me it´s the opposite. I only have a sorc and with 1.6 I´m finally able to put up competetive dps as a caster (while also buffing 3% crit and 10% magica regen ).

I agree with you though. Sorc is simply not fine because the class is lacking in terms of meaningful synergies and skill choices with stamina AND magica builds (skills are great on their own but have only niche purposes and are utterly useless elsewhere e.g. liquid lightning: finally a great dot - you will just never be able to use it in pvp...).
Also it has become the worst healer in 1.6.
Tanking got a buff though.

Edit: Also i hate that sorc have to chose on EVERY relevant class skill if they want the pve or pvp morph (curse, ward, lightningflood, both pets, storm armor, fragments(some builds).
Not a sorc skill but for every class: Force shock.

NOBODY actually knows the full specifics as of right now. the server is down, and updating, we willl wait to see. And for those of you that played on the PTS, remember, that was just a suggestion, not new ideas carved in stone, hence the name TEST server.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Every person in this thread that is trying desperately to keep up the illusion that "Sorcs are fine" does not play a sorc as their main or has other V14 classes they can play when the get tired of the extra work sorcs have to put in to be competitive.

Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.

Really? This skill is a win button? Didn't know that. Next time I'm fighting any melee powerful class I will just cast mines, then type the /sleep emote and take a fat nap in the center of my mines while everything dies around me.

Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.

TWO Slots. 20% of your active skills.

Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.

Nuke? OK. I'm done here. There are clearly people that despise the sorc class so much that they don't even sanity check their posts.

Without listing names, several major sorc players are now rolling other classes. I am sure there are more than the ones I know about.

The class is dying because it is simply not as fun or rewarding to play anymore (compared to other classes) as it took a high level of skill to play effectively and mistakes are much more costly than with other classes.

2H sorc was the most fun I have ever had in this game but melee sorc is the most neglected of all sorcs, storm calling skills cost too much for medium armor sorcs, and sorcs lack stamina effective survivability.

I will be playing my templar as either melee or magicka as templars are much better casters than sorcs in this new patch.

High level of skill to play effectively in 1.5? Wow. Maybe you're talking about PVP, what do I know, but in PVE it was literally a 2 button class. Which was boring as hell. Lots of new awesome skills to use now at least in PVE.

Also you might want to sanity check yourself a bit, as for example @xMovingTarget who is a part of Hodor (who just happens to be the most successful and probably by far the best PVE guild) is rolling a Sorc. Just because average joe logs on the PTS and presses surge then crushing shock -> does 4000 DPS then rerolls.. doesn't mean anything.

I wish you good luck with your rerolling to Templar because I can tell you that it's not going to be easier to play at all.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

This is the most counter-factual statement I've ever read on this forum.

#1) The Surge Cooldown is not in any way, shape or form a "small nerf". The effect of the cooldown is to totally kill any synergy Surge has with AOE damage spells during combat with multiple mobs. I used to be able solo tough mobs like the spiders at Spindleclutch... now I can't. Clannfear de-summoning, bubble shields, Resto staff.... NONE of that stuff works as fast or effectively as Surge healing!

#2) PVP balance is an oxymoron. Fix one issue, and they just start complaining about something else: shield stacking, block-casting... whatever. Destroying a class defining skill to preempt PVP whiners was totally uncalled for. I don't even want to HEAR about PVP and their endless grievances. They already ruined Bolt Escape, now they've killed Negate and Surge, too!

Even in PVE it was utterly broken. See my calculations on the previous page. A buff that makes you heal for 12K per cast of an offensive skill dealing full damage = not ok. It was horribly unbalanced since the day it was born, just so happened it didn't have much effect in PVP because of Impen - and in PVE it wasn't considered because well, mobs can't use /feedback.

Nihil wrote: »

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

what is horrible is that 95% of the build with highest dps that people have come up with so far involves pets. hte other 5% has no pets but less dps.

forced into pets is just wrong. play the way you want is what they say but so far with 1.6 is forced pets or you lose dps.

And how would people who wanted pets to be viable pre 1.6 have felt? No matter which build would parse higher dps there will be someone who feels left out. Now there are builds out there that can reach high numbers without pets, and some of them probably yet to be found. Pet builds still have some flaws in them but if you are neglecting 1/3 of your classes skill lines (potentially) then there might be some complications that could theoretically come along.

From comparing the builds people are posting Sorcs (pet and non pet builds) don't seem to be in a bad place, encounters might actually determine which of the builds might be more viable (as the limited UI will limit pets usefullness at times).

pppontus wrote: »

Exstazik wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

So what did they do to sorcs?

Tweaked some spells to make them extremely good, in certain cases some of the best in the game like:

Liquid Lightning, the absolute strongest DOT in the game.
Daedric Prey, awesome nuke to keep up 100%.
Hardened Ward, survivability level = 9000.
Twilight, free 500-1K DPS for doing nothing.
Bound Armaments, here you go 8% extra Magicka on top of your massive amount of Magicka if you're willing to give up a slot.
Crystal Frags, procs do massive damage and cost nothing. Cast time also decreased.
Mages Fury, always awesome still awesome. Better now that all Mag Sorcs wil lstack Spell dmg and none of that Weapon Damage crap.
Daedric Minefield, if you face a melee guy you've already won.
Thundering Presence, decent DOT .. also pretty much free DPS on a 20 second timer.

In essence, a small nerf to Surge which was needed because it would completely break PVP balance without Impen. The rest buffs.

My Sorc will be the first char I get ready for endgame when the servers come up tomorrow (EU). The rest can wait.

Jahosefat wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

lol, we got nothing else viable, everything else we got is highly situational. And we're still the worst class, no matter if it's healing, tanking or dps. I mean, asking the adds to nicely stand in that 10 sec AoE of ours and let it tickle them? Or stand for 5 minutes and charge a spell that's barely viable anyway.

Well, that's what I said, you clearly can't figure out what's viable. You should change the thread title to "Farewall my Sorc class" because mostly everyone else is already doing well with their Sorcs in 1.6.

Then again, you just wanted to whine.. so carry on.

You are so constructive these days

Hahaha I know right.. my constructive days are well over. Or rather, I'll give answers according to how the question is asked. If people ask questions because they want an honest and good answer, I'll give it (see above).. if people ask questions and it's obvious that they don't want the answer because they've already made their mind up and just want to continue whining forever.. yeah. I've had enough of people telling me my ideas and builds are *** because they can't deal with rotations that involve more than one button.

Liquid Lightning good DOT only for standing boss.Useless PvP
Daedric Prey is ok
Hardened Ward scale only from magicka not ok
Twilight scale better from magicka not ok
Bound Armaments,well...will be ok with extra slot
Crystal Frags non proc is ok.Proc still not instant-not ok
Mages Fury,-without disentegrate proc worst finisher

a small nerf to Surge...down from 50% to 20% it's small?!


About PvP 90% of our class skills reflectable/blockable

I was going to comment on this, but I won't. You can think that your skills are bad if you want. Reroll another class and you'll actually see.

Someone very smart said something like this in another thread:

People who only play Sorcerers think that Sorcerers suck. People who play Sorcerers and other classes think they are good.

Not necessarily always true, but it's proven to be true a lot lately. Grass is always greener on the other side.

I primarily play sorc and I don't think they suck XD. NB would be second played but it would be a max of like 10 % time played.

Obviously not everyone is going to feel that way. I just meant that people who only have a Sorc (or for that matter any other class) at high VR seem to think that their class is always more broken and/or underpowered compared to other classes. Heck, we've even seen DKs post that they are underpowered in 1.5. If people don't play or understand other classes, it's easy to think that the class can be blamed for all of the players own shortcomings. ^^

Erock25 wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Stamina Sorc is totally gimped though! Yes, every class can do good DPS just spamming Wrecking Blow, but think about what the 1.5 stam sorc had and think about what the 1.6 stam sorc has.... 1.5 stam Sorc had 10% cost reduction on some of the best spells they use (surge, lightning form, bolt escape) as well as the one true real advantage of a stam sorc - THE HIGHEST WEAPON DMG IN GAME! That last thing there was the whole reason to be a stamina sorc. You could stack weapon dmg to levels that other classes could not. Now, with Rally >>> Crit Surge, there is no more advantage and we also lost the 10% cost reduction. In addition, all other classes gained stamina morphs that are useful while the Sorc only got a 2 slot taking up toggle that does no direect damage itself. I don't even count dark deal, as it is useless to channel with a melee character.

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Overload

Overload and Power Overload will now properly scale their damage off Weapon Damage and Stamina in the event that they are higher than Spell Power and Magicka.

If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.

Aren't all ultimates scaling from Stam+Weapon Damage if this is higher? I believe this above was just a bugfix as Overload was not doing that at the time of the changes (while all other ultimates were).

You may be right and it may be a bug fix, but I also kind of remember reading that a lot of other ultimates are only scaling on stamina or magicka.... so perhaps the stamina buff for Sorc with Overload is that it takes weapon damage into account as well. Either way, it is just sad to see the two (or three) stamina things they listed for Sorc in all of the PTS patch notes while other classes got so much. It was almost as if ZOS made the conscious decision that they no longer want Sorcs to be able to be stamina based, which makes no sense considering all three other classes can be either stamina or magicka.

I agree Sorcs need more love in the Stamina department.

Snit wrote: »

It's not that bad

As a DPS sorc, my primary concern is really over crit surge. That was so important for clearing adds, I wonder how well some fights (Veteran Spindleclutch) will go now. Healers can no longer count on sorcs to largely keep themselves up in those situations.

You can heal yourself pretty well still with Surge actually, it's not a "full health no matter how many mobs attack me"-thing anymore but it heals for a more than decent amount. In my testing I at least always end up with 3-4K HPS which is very strong for a skill that doesn't lose you any DPS.

Erock25 wrote: »

Stamina Sorc is totally gimped though! Yes, every class can do good DPS just spamming Wrecking Blow, but think about what the 1.5 stam sorc had and think about what the 1.6 stam sorc has.... 1.5 stam Sorc had 10% cost reduction on some of the best spells they use (surge, lightning form, bolt escape) as well as the one true real advantage of a stam sorc - THE HIGHEST WEAPON DMG IN GAME! That last thing there was the whole reason to be a stamina sorc. You could stack weapon dmg to levels that other classes could not. Now, with Rally >>> Crit Surge, there is no more advantage and we also lost the 10% cost reduction. In addition, all other classes gained stamina morphs that are useful while the Sorc only got a 2 slot taking up toggle that does no direect damage itself. I don't even count dark deal, as it is useless to channel with a melee character.

If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.

Having said that, you can still stack more weapon power with a dual wield build than any other class without relying on a 2h off-hand for execute freeing up your off-hand for bow. Sorc still has the highest weapon power in the game for any duel wield build if you have to buck the trend and play a melee sorc.

Wooo Hooo My Two-Handed Heavy Armor Sorc build is absolutely STUNNING!