Flame (elemental?) Resistance Increases the damage you take, it does not mitigate it

Legit92 · February 2015

Hello, I was on the pts the other day to test out the new enchantments on rings. I found that not only it was overly nerfed (not worthwhile at all!), the math was wrong and it now increases the damage you take instead of mitigates it.

Multiple nodes also seem to have values different than what the tool tip says for the champion system.
Elemental Expert -> 20%, not 25%
Spell Erosion -> Possibly not working at all. (didn't increase the damage the lava was dealing to me, at 2k spell resist)
Elemental Defender -> 15% not tooltip value (20? 25?)

I only had an easy means to test fire resistance mitigation, but I would assume the math was done wrong for all 3 elemental types.
Here's a video of demonstration:

youtu.be/6Bu_GCx26f8

Legit92 · February 2015

Before watch, I've redone testing using fire bugs in stonefalls and fire resist enchantments are correctly working, negating 7.3% fire damage per enchantment. With more lava testing, lava is extremely weird (and wrong) when dealing with fire enchantments. Sorry, should have done more testing first.

Don't see an edit option and it looks like I embedded my video wrong, hopefully this one works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bu_GCx26f8&feature=youtu.be

madangrypally · February 2015

This could be why damage is much higher then it should be on PTS even without buff stacking bugs. Good catch.

Its a little late tonight but tomorrow Ill do more testing on it from as many sources as possible. Would be nice to have someone test it against a monster or another player.

Lava may not follow the same principals as npc/player damage. Need to figure out that also.

Panda244 · February 2015

For easier understanding.

Lava deals 1000 damage on contact. After 3 seconds it deals 2000 damage, after another 3 seconds it deals 4000 damage.

The longer you stand in lava the more damage it will eventually do, it increases exponentially I believe, try waiting 10-15 seconds before you step back in with flame resist, because even if you stand in it long enough to trigger the harder hitting damage, then step out, if you step back in you'll still get hit with the higher damage for some reason, it doesn't reset when you jump out and back in, gotta give it a minute to cool-down....

That, or fire resist is broke-eh-did

madangrypally · February 2015

A good test way to test fire damage is against Imps.

Need to also remember that the champion system seems to be calculated differently then normal increases. There have been some great post with more in-depth calculations. These need to be taken into consideration.

Something I noticed with just basic testing is I was able to increase my lightening damage from the star that increased magic damage as well as the star the increased shock damage. Even though it says 25% damage increased per star, need to remember this is not flat overall damage increase. It comes out to be much much less. The same will likely apply similar to things like fire resist and spell resist.

Legit92 · February 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

For easier understanding.

Lava deals 1000 damage on contact. After 3 seconds it deals 2000 damage, after another 3 seconds it deals 4000 damage.

The longer you stand in lava the more damage it will eventually do, it increases exponentially I believe, try waiting 10-15 seconds before you step back in with flame resist, because even if you stand in it long enough to trigger the harder hitting damage, then step out, if you step back in you'll still get hit with the higher damage for some reason, it doesn't reset when you jump out and back in, gotta give it a minute to cool-down....

That, or fire resist is broke-eh-did

If it was an issue, the damage wouldn't have been a consistent number. I've also tested it while standing it lava for 3-5 ticks with the same damage number for each tick.

kaithuzar · February 2015

This definitely needs to be resolved if they plan on anyone actually playing as a vampire.

Legit92 · February 2015

Okay, I just redid my tests using the bugs in stonefalls, every 2.3k resist enchantment is correctly negating 7.3% fire damage. With more testing done on lava, lava is just extremely buggy, by all means. There is no extra damage accumulation over time from sitting in lava though.

For reference, with 17k hp I was taking 100 dmg less in lava with fire enchantment rings and no champion points. It was more total damage though. I assume lava is a % of your hp, but that doesn't explain mix results or why 6500 fr would resist only 100 dmg. Doesn't matter a ton overall. My bad, should have tested it more.

madangrypally · February 2015

Negating 7.3% for every 2.3k resist enchantment seems to high imo.

~32500 Resist should equal 50% damage mitigation.
~650 Resist thus should equal 1% damage mitigation.

2.3k resist then should equal ~3.54% damage mitigation. It seems you are getting a little over double the mitigation then you should be getting.

(I know players can increase resist values by percentages which will effect the 2.3k resist value, but increasing it by that much seems impossible imo)

Legit92 · February 2015

madangrypally wrote: »

Negating 7.3% for every 2.3k resist enchantment seems to high imo.

~32500 Resist should equal 50% damage mitigation.
~650 Resist thus should equal 1% damage mitigation.

2.3k resist then should equal ~3.54% damage mitigation. It seems you are getting a little over double the mitigation then you should be getting.

(I know players can increase resist values by percentages which will effect the 2.3k resist value, but increasing it by that much seems impossible imo)

Wouldn't touch the rings if it was as low as 4% reduction. Also you're looking at it from one perspective. You lose a lot of utility by doing triple enchantment.

The main idea is, 325000 spell resistance works on all elemental damage AND magic.
Fire resistance only works on fire. The value should ideally be 4 times 3.5, giving us 14% per enchantment.

It's okay that it's only 7.3% because it can't be reduced like spell resistance easily can. (Except maybe that one destro skill)

Domander · February 2015

From the bit of testing I did against scamp, ~2k fire resist (dark elf passive) gave about 3.6% damage reduction.

They need to adjust it, compared to live elemental resists are almost nothing.

Legit92 · February 2015

Domander wrote: »

From the bit of testing I did against an imp ~2k fire resist (dark elf passive) gave about 3.6% damage reduction.

They need to adjust it, compared to live elemental resists are almost nothing.

I agree that it seems a little weak, though in live it's certainly a little too strong. Worse part is that rings are by far the most customizable thing in ESO. 1800 SR + 1025 FR in live gives you the 50% hardcap on damage. And since there are no longer any caps...

Video is a little old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLM3f2pSjXw#t=110

Domander · February 2015

Legit92 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

From the bit of testing I did against an imp ~2k fire resist (dark elf passive) gave about 3.6% damage reduction.

They need to adjust it, compared to live elemental resists are almost nothing.

I agree that it seems a little weak, though in live it's certainly a little too strong. Worse part is that rings are by far the most customizable thing in ESO. 1800 SR + 1025 FR in live gives you the 50% hardcap on damage. And since there are no longer any caps...

Video is a little old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLM3f2pSjXw#t=110

50% is still a hardcap in 1.6

Armitas · February 2015

madangrypally wrote: »

~32500 Resist should equal 50% damage mitigation.

32,500 resist... Sounds silly just saying it. "Hey man, whats your resist at?" "Thirty two thousand five hundred" "....Whu..what?". Man I hate these inflated stats, it's just silly ridiculous.

5 years later. "Hey man, what's your resist at?" "One hundred and fifty two thousand four hundred and seventy three" ..."whu...wha?"

madangrypally · February 2015

~32,500 Armor and Resist = 50% damage mitigation which is mitigation hard cap of 50%.

Its possible to show a higher armor/resist value but mitigation does not increase past the 50% especially in heavy. Possible in medium and impossible in light armor.

Need to keep in mind that this mitigation is from armor/resist and not from other sources that may reduce damage taken. IE:
Nord: 6% reduced damage taken and Empowering Sweep 15% reduced damage dealt to you.

The champion systems
Elemental Defender, Hardy and Thick Skinned says it reduces a type of damage dealt to you by a percent.

This to me indicates this will not be part of the 50% damage mitigation from armor/spell resist.
These will most likely not give 25% reduced damage dealt to you either but some other less value. This is because the 25% is likely calculated differently then most players think which means the end result has a much lesser value.

I have not tested them to get the real numbers and how how they are calculated but dont expect 25% end damage reduction for one of those star passives.

Legit92 · February 2015

madangrypally wrote: »

~32,500 Armor and Resist = 50% damage mitigation which is mitigation hard cap of 50%.

Its possible to show a higher armor/resist value but mitigation does not increase past the 50% especially in heavy. Possible in medium and impossible in light armor.

Need to keep in mind that this mitigation is from armor/resist and not from other sources that may reduce damage taken. IE:
Nord: 6% reduced damage taken and Empowering Sweep 15% reduced damage dealt to you.

The champion systems
Elemental Defender, Hardy and Thick Skinned says it reduces a type of damage dealt to you by a percent.

This to me indicates this will not be part of the 50% damage mitigation from armor/spell resist.
These will most likely not give 25% reduced damage dealt to you either but some other less value. This is because the 25% is likely calculated differently then most players think which means the end result has a much lesser value.

I have not tested them to get the real numbers and how how they are calculated but dont expect 25% end damage reduction for one of those star passives.

I figured they would design the game so hardcaps didn't need to exist, rather it would be nearly impossible to get enough of one stat to reach something extraordinary. Pretty silly to remove softcaps only to make it easier to reach the hardcaps.

Though for Nord passives you shouldn't view it as an extra 6%. More than likely that mitigation comes in seperately. So, 100 dmg mitigated by 50% = 50 damage mitigated by 6% = 47 damage done to you. The nords passive is actually pretty awful. Raising your hp by 6% would be more helpful for quite a few reasons.

Tooltips need to be simplified if they do use some weird math for the champion system. I was only using 2k spell resist in my video so it shouldn't be to off from the original values. (Testing was done in lava which is apparently super weird, so I wouldn't trust that data anymore)