Question for Paul Sage regarding vampires

MornaBaine · December 2014

I wonder if Sage has ever answered a forum question. Anyone know?

Sacadon · December 2014

Note: it's not my intent to condescend if my comments seem that way or plain obvious... I just thought that sharing my perspective may be helpful.

I've never seen him respond directly and expect that any response from him would be indirect such as a broad statement or just via a community rep.

This doesn't necessarily mean he's above it or that he does not care. Rather his time costs more than anyone else at ZOS both in dollars and opportunity. So I believe it's actually in our favor that he doesn't respond directly to player inquiries targeted at him. I believe it's best that he focuses on core leadership tasks that are greater and more impactful on ESO which is largely what is expected of him. Basically, he expects those accountable to the ESO community to handle such things and if they asked him to weigh in constantly, I suspect he would have issue with it.

At the end of the day, we've no idea as to what's going on behind the curtain and can only expect ZOS to be responsive to our needs.

We all know that our posts are being read. I've seen a pattern with ZOS in that they avoid giving us bad news via forum. So given that you've got the first place trophy for perseverance on the vamp justice system topic, I speculate that no answer back is the answer... which is stage 4 is hostile (the bad news they are avoiding to give). Hopefully I'm wrong on this though as I prefer to stay in stage 4... Again, just a guess.

MornaBaine · December 2014

omniobsessed wrote: »

Note: it's not my intent to condescend if my comments seem that way or plain obvious... I just thought that sharing my perspective may be helpful.

I've never seen him respond directly and expect that any response from him would be indirect such as a broad statement or just via a community rep.

This doesn't necessarily mean he's above it or that he does not care. Rather his time costs more than anyone else at ZOS both in dollars and opportunity. So I believe it's actually in our favor that he doesn't respond directly to player inquiries targeted at him. I believe it's best that he focuses on core leadership tasks that are greater and more impactful on ESO which is largely what is expected of him. Basically, he expects those accountable to the ESO community to handle such things and if they asked him to weigh in constantly, I suspect he would have issue with it.

At the end of the day, we've no idea as to what's going on behind the curtain and can only expect ZOS to be responsive to our needs.

We all know that our posts are being read. I've seen a pattern with ZOS in that they avoid giving us bad news via forum. So given that you've got the first place trophy for perseverance on the vamp justice system topic, I speculate that no answer back is the answer... which is stage 4 is hostile (the bad news they are avoiding to give). Hopefully I'm wrong on this though as I prefer to stay in stage 4... Again, just a guess.

No offense taken! I also asked that, if the divine Mr. Sage could not answer, that he have a Dev do so. Since that hasn't happened either....yeah I tend to agree with your thoughts there. Of course I'm hoping that guards DO aggro on Stage 4 vamps...BUT if that is going to be the case, they are going to HAVE to address the current stage timer system. We'd just really like to have some info darn it! LOL

WraithAzraiel · December 2014

The Great and Powerful Sage can't be bothered to grace us with his great and powerfulness. He has minions that do his bidding for him, for he, are the Overlord!

MornaBaine · December 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

The Great and Powerful Sage can't be bothered to grace us with his great and powerfulness. He has minions that do his bidding for him, for he, are the Overlord!

True! Alas, it would seem he has not instructed his minions to get on this. Good help....so hard to find. LOL

Nexxa · December 2014

Regardless of who says it I want to know we're going to get the same kind of attention werewolves got. They got big gains and no nerfs. Bad enough ZoS nerfed a few of our toys simply based on the opinions of a few vocal bad players on the forums rather than doing actual research. Tried running most of the important dungeons as a vampire, ZoS? It's not fun when everyone and their mother does fire damage compared to poison damage which one rarely if ever sees in PVE.

MornaBaine · December 2014

Right there with you Nexxa. But alas, it seems as if vampires are WAY down on the list of importance as far as ZOS is concerned. Honestly, if it weren't for our amazing guild (of "unimportant" roleplayers) I'd have already cancelled my sub over this.

Nexxa · December 2014

I have once already. A lot of bad players will scream 'nerf' rather than compromise their brittle self-esteem (let alone accept that their worth ranges from dead weight to burden in any aspect) but an MMO company really needs to learn to tune these pathetic humanoid piles of excrement out. The forums are not and never will be a place to make decisions in regards to balance, Zenimax. I know this is your first time making an MMO and mistakes will be made (and heaven knows they -have- been made) but that strikes me as a sort of common sense, y'know?

miahq · January 2015

Frankly, instead of just hitting vamps with the nerf bat to shut people up, they should've 1) switched it around so the best deductions come at stage 1, not stage 4 (ask players to put forth some sort of effort? Never!) and 2) changed how the progression works, so that out of combat if you feed regularly you can maintain each stage for longer. And in combat the timer goes faster, so it's not so easy to maintain stage 1 and just fight for 3hrs straight... But I guess the nerf bat is easier, it requires less thinking.

Aceit · January 2015

I see where Paul Sage is coming from except his logic doesn't hold up in my opinion.

It is true that a vampire should be recognizable in game so that you know to use fire/fighter guild abilities.

The problem is that wouldn't be fare, as stated above. Since vampires are not grossly overpowered why paint a giant target on them?

Either make the debuffs of vampirism less extreme (my preference) or make vampires true vampires, so that they destroy!

Gilliamtherogue · January 2015

Your comparison to the idea that werewolves have no indicators of their affected state is actually incorrect. Both vampires and werewolves have specific alterations to the humanoid body that you can find if you know what to look for. I will agree that vampires are much easier to set apart than werewolves in their affliction, but players infected with Lycanthropy actually have longer (and sharper) teeth and nails that protrude, but may remain hidden under helmets and gloves; but as could as a vampire. I suggest comparing a character with a before and after for yourself!

MornaBaine · January 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Your comparison to the idea that werewolves have no indicators of their affected state is actually incorrect. Both vampires and werewolves have specific alterations to the humanoid body that you can find if you know what to look for. I will agree that vampires are much easier to set apart than werewolves in their affliction, but players infected with Lycanthropy actually have longer (and sharper) teeth and nails that protrude, but may remain hidden under helmets and gloves; but as could as a vampire. I suggest comparing a character with a before and after for yourself!

That's interesting! One of my husband's characters recently became a werewolf so I'll have to take a gander at her and see if I can see the differences. Still, even if there, these are very subtle and would likely only be apparent to the player of the character, not the populace at large. And as there ARE abilities that make recognizing vampires easy there's even less reason to slap them with a huge visual marker that can be circumvented with armor anyway.

Oronell · January 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

So Stage 4 vampires WILL be treated as if they are criminals in the Justice System as has been confirmed in the Livestream. So, Mr. Sage... since we know that even the NPCs will finally be able to tell what a vampire is at Stage 4 but, presumably not at the other 3 Stages...does it STILL make any sort of sense for those previous Stages to be visually apparent? If so, why?

You will most likely receive a different reaction from NPCs for each stage, like in Oblivion. Stage 2 may get you comments like...."You feeling ill?" While Stage 3 may be avoidance.

MornaBaine · January 2015

Oronell wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So Stage 4 vampires WILL be treated as if they are criminals in the Justice System as has been confirmed in the Livestream. So, Mr. Sage... since we know that even the NPCs will finally be able to tell what a vampire is at Stage 4 but, presumably not at the other 3 Stages...does it STILL make any sort of sense for those previous Stages to be visually apparent? If so, why?

You will most likely receive a different reaction from NPCs for each stage, like in Oblivion. Stage 2 may get you comments like...."You feeling ill?" While Stage 3 may be avoidance.

I really DO hope they will go to that much trouble. But I am rather doubtful they have the interest in doing much of anything to enhance the experience of those of us who play vampires.

Oronell · January 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Oronell wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So Stage 4 vampires WILL be treated as if they are criminals in the Justice System as has been confirmed in the Livestream. So, Mr. Sage... since we know that even the NPCs will finally be able to tell what a vampire is at Stage 4 but, presumably not at the other 3 Stages...does it STILL make any sort of sense for those previous Stages to be visually apparent? If so, why?

You will most likely receive a different reaction from NPCs for each stage, like in Oblivion. Stage 2 may get you comments like...."You feeling ill?" While Stage 3 may be avoidance.

I really DO hope they will go to that much trouble. But I am rather doubtful they have the interest in doing much of anything to enhance the experience of those of us who play vampires.

An enhanced player experience was the entire point of the Justice system in Oblivion and Skyrim. If the system for ESO is implemented without those core features they really will be missing the mark.

phreatophile · January 2015

Oronell wrote: »

An enhanced player experience was the entire point of the Justice system in Oblivion and Skyrim. If the system for ESO is implemented without those core features they really will be missing the mark.

I'm not convinced they even know where the mark is. They've certainly been hitting pretty wide from the mark where both Vampires and Werewolves are concerned.

Lynnessa · January 2015

Back to Oblivion, demons!

Actually, I wanted to say that this is a very interesting discussion and I've learned from it.

I agree that if vampirism is to be a "crime" (Crime? The word scarcely conveys the WRONGNESS of these abominations whose very existence causes pain in the world itself!) ..ahem... that the timer needs to be drastically changed.

TRoclodyte · January 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

All of this just goes to show that vampires were incredibly poorly implemented and are in desperate need of an overhaul all around. Immune to daylight? They really should not be. They should have to employ additional magic to remain unscathed in the sun. That could be implemented in a variety of ways. A potion. A "daywalker" set of armor. A passive skill not available until Vamp Level 3. A ring. A trophy type item that must be slotted. In all instances being indoors or underground in some dungeon removes the sun damage and keeping to shadows should only cause half the damage that being in direct sunlight would cause. THAT would make vamps a challenge to play and yet still make them viable during daylight.

Well, probably imposssible to make anything about sun damage until ZOS fixes the weather. Sunny on my screen, raining on your screen. "Why are you burning? The sky is filled with clouds!"

MornaBaine · February 2015

Well now I have to wonder if a vampire costume that let's your vampire look mortal once more will be in the cash shop. Since apparently now that's my last hope.

Stravokov · February 2015

i think we can all agree that silence from ZOS/Paul Sage is a clear indication they have no plans to do anything with it. if they did they would have responded.

personally the vampire actives skills are worthless in my opinion, thus making stage 4 pointless to be in. only reason i am still a Vampire with my character is because of my nostalgic attachment to it. that's it.

i get the feeling that is the general consensus among the majority of the Vampire players as well.

MornaBaine · February 2015

Stravokov wrote: »

i think we can all agree that silence from ZOS/Paul Sage is a clear indication they have no plans to do anything with it. if they did they would have responded.

personally the vampire actives skills are worthless in my opinion, thus making stage 4 pointless to be in. only reason i am still a Vampire with my character is because of my nostalgic attachment to it. that's it.

i get the feeling that is the general consensus among the majority of the Vampire players as well.

It's so sad though. I look at how POORLY vampires and werewolves were implemented (werewolves STILL need tons of work even after having been improved) and I wonder why they even bothered.

MornaBaine · February 2015

The thing that REALLY bothers me though is that Sage flat out SAID that it's "important" for other players to be able to tell who the vampires are. And to that I simply asked, "Why?" After all, it's caused nothing but trouble among players. Yet he refuses to back up his reasoning with any sort of logical explanation. Or any explanation at all for that matter. He's not unaware of this thread or the fact that it poses a question a lot of people would like to have answered. That he continues to ignore an issue he could easily clear up in 5 seconds is really disappointing.

Hamfast · February 2015

As I have shown in the past, I agree with many of your points Morna, I tend to disagree on trinkets and costumes and lean more toward passive skills... I also think longer and reversed stage times with the passive making stage 1 (and perhaps later stage 2) look normal without some extra sight skill from the fighters guild to see Vampires and later Werewolves (perhaps a passive, like the vampire appearance skill)...

But I wonder about the lore, ESO takes place hundreds of years before the other ES Games, Lore from later may be different, remembered or written by someone who remembered things differently.

That being said, there are NPC Vampires in the game that appear normal, players should have a way to hide their affliction as the NPC Vampires do. Watching them for a few hours will not turn them into ravening demonic monsters, so they seem not to need to feed to maintain their good looks, which could mean the costume is more likely, or I have way too much time on my hands simply "Watching" an NPC...

Sphinx2318 · February 2015

P.S. Buff DK's

nightwalkerrobin_ESO · February 2015

Paul Sage also said that guards would notice stage 4 vampires and werewolves that transform in the cites. Well I have tested it and the guards don't care. So I guess he has not answered you because he really does not have an answer. He obviously did not know how the reactions of the guards was supposed to be with the Justice System.

MornaBaine · February 2015

nightwalkerrobin_ESO wrote: »

Paul Sage also said that guards would notice stage 4 vampires and werewolves that transform in the cites. Well I have tested it and the guards don't care. So I guess he has not answered you because he really does not have an answer. He obviously did not know how the reactions of the guards was supposed to be with the Justice System.

It's just really frustrating that Sage and apparently all of ZOS refuse to address ANY questions regarding vampires. I know I'm not "special" because I watch them ignore every other vampire thread that ever gets posted as well, no matter who it is by.

Stannum · February 2015

I don't understend why my originally black-fur khajit has become pale-grey.

MornaBaine · February 2015

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't understend why my originally black-fur khajit has become pale-grey.

Right? It makes no sense. My Breton vampire, who has black hair....her hair did not change to white when she became a vampire. Of course, if the fur of khajiit vampires did NOT turn white they would be alone among all the vampires of ESO with the ability to NOT look like vampires. And THAT would start yet another firestorm. But, logically, it makes absolutely no sense for this to happen. Just like it makes no sense for human and mer vampires to look like zombies most of the time yet elicit ZERO reaction from NPCs.

olsborg · February 2015

If youre stage 4 vampire, it should be easy to spot you. I mean, youre an undead and your probably starting to rot.

MornaBaine · February 2015

olsborg wrote: »

If youre stage 4 vampire, it should be easy to spot you. I mean, youre an undead and your probably starting to rot.

Yes and with the implementation of the Justice System guards should attack Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves. Sage himself has hinted that this wold be the case and yet it is NOT happening and no explanation has been given. My belief is that they realized if they did this they would HAVE to make further adjustments to vampires and they just can't be bothered to do that much work.