Question for Paul Sage regarding vampires

olsborg

MornaBaine wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

If youre stage 4 vampire, it should be easy to spot you. I mean, youre an undead and your probably starting to rot.

Yes and with the implementation of the Justice System guards should attack Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves. Sage himself has hinted that this wold be the case and yet it is NOT happening and no explanation has been given. My belief is that they realized if they did this they would HAVE to make further adjustments to vampires and they just can't be bothered to do that much work.

The devs seem to have gone back on alot of things they have said. Im not sure whats going on, but it seems like they are giving up on alot of their ideas, and downscaling etc. (assumption)

MornaBaine

olsborg wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

If youre stage 4 vampire, it should be easy to spot you. I mean, youre an undead and your probably starting to rot.

Yes and with the implementation of the Justice System guards should attack Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves. Sage himself has hinted that this wold be the case and yet it is NOT happening and no explanation has been given. My belief is that they realized if they did this they would HAVE to make further adjustments to vampires and they just can't be bothered to do that much work.

The devs seem to have gone back on alot of things they have said. Im not sure whats going on, but it seems like they are giving up on alot of their ideas, and downscaling etc. (assumption)

This is probably due to the fact that ALL content going forward has to be monetized in the cash shop. Gone are the days of "free" game updates that introduce meaningful content changes. So anything they cannot easily figure out a way to make a cash shop item is simply not being done. I'd really like to be wrong about this.

phreatophile

As much as I want our concerns addressed immediately if not sooner, I think it's mostly a case of having larger, more important concerns right now. I'm sure a lot of them had to be dragged kicking and screaming to buy to play, but when the suits tell you to right the ship or abandon it...you don't get to keep hemorrhaging subs indefinitely.

Of the countless players of vampire characters, not that many are actually invested in playing a vampire. I think most are in it for the extra strength it brings to their character. There are only so many of us that are really annoyed be ZOS's lackluster implementation. Look at all the vampire threads, it's all of the same usual suspects (4 or 5 of us) every time. However lots of players hate veteran levels, lag, and imbalances between players and months and months in they still have only made a barely adequate attempt to deal with one of those problems.

In my case they have until The Witcher 3 comes out to do something worth sticking around for.

I'd love to see them fix this, but we are a minority and therefore not a priority.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

As much as I want our concerns addressed immediately if not sooner, I think it's mostly a case of having larger, more important concerns right now. I'm sure a lot of them had to be dragged kicking and screaming to buy to play, but when the suits tell you to right the ship or abandon it...you don't get to keep hemorrhaging subs indefinitely.

Of the countless players of vampire characters, not that many are actually invested in playing a vampire. I think most are in it for the extra strength it brings to their character. There are only so many of us that are really annoyed be ZOS's lackluster implementation. Look at all the vampire threads, it's all of the same usual suspects (4 or 5 of us) every time. However lots of players hate veteran levels, lag, and imbalances between players and months and months in they still have only made a barely adequate attempt to deal with one of those problems.

In my case they have until The Witcher 3 comes out to do something worth sticking around for.

I'd love to see them fix this, but we are a minority and therefore not a priority.

While I agree with your overall assessment I don't think that's really any excuse for the lack of attention this gets. I know, I'm holding a company to ethical standards that, unfortunately, corporate America seems to have completely lost touch with. I'm still in wait and see mode but I already have the sinking feeling that I'll eventually leave this game with a very bad taste in my mouth and sorry I ever heard of it. Mr. Sage, the Devs, Zos...any or all of them could change that pretty easily when it comes right down to it by simply doing the right thing.

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

I remember before beta started, well any of the betas I was in any way, there was talk by the Devs about a skill that could be learned by any class that would enable them to have a combat pet. I am still waiting for that. it was hinted at when they showed the video about the Spell Crafting, but i just read a post by Gina that said that Spell Crafting is now on the back burner with no one working on it. I am hoping to see it come out soon, but I have that same feeling you have that it will just fizzle away and never happen.

Unfortunately that is what happens when a game goes to the new model, all the attention goes to what can they develop that will get players to spend money in the game store. And it seems that and raids will have all the attention, and nothing else. I am hoping they don't drive me away from the game, so we will have to see.

MornaBaine

To whoever the nice Dev was who removed the troll post, thank you. However, this has the unintended effect of constantly causing the "your question has new answers" notification to keep popping up even though there are no new answers. Please fix. Thank you.

Roechacca

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

MornaBaine

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Roechacca

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Vampires getting attacked by guards and players at stage 4 .

MornaBaine

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Vampires getting attacked by guards and players at stage 4 .

I hadn't heard that. Could you please link your source? I'd be pretty happy if this were true!

Roechacca

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Vampires getting attacked by guards and players at stage 4 .

I hadn't heard that. Could you please link your source? I'd be pretty happy if this were true!

I've listened to so many pod casts I can't remember the exact one . They had Paul sage on and he said they still had these things planned for the justice system just at a later date after they have the bugs worked out from the pvE portion . I think it was ESO behind the scenes podcast or something similar . Apologies , I'll try to find it if I can .

MornaBaine

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Vampires getting attacked by guards and players at stage 4 .

I hadn't heard that. Could you please link your source? I'd be pretty happy if this were true!

I've listened to so many pod casts I can't remember the exact one . They had Paul sage on and he said they still had these things planned for the justice system just at a later date after they have the bugs worked out from the pvE portion . I think it was ESO behind the scenes podcast or something similar . Apologies , I'll try to find it if I can .

Thanks, I'd appreciate it!

Roechacca

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Vampires getting attacked by guards and players at stage 4 .

I hadn't heard that. Could you please link your source? I'd be pretty happy if this were true!

I've listened to so many pod casts I can't remember the exact one . They had Paul sage on and he said they still had these things planned for the justice system just at a later date after they have the bugs worked out from the pvE portion . I think it was ESO behind the scenes podcast or something similar . Apologies , I'll try to find it if I can .

Thanks, I'd appreciate it!

I think it's in this one . I'm not fully awake yet N need to get coffee but pretty sure this is the one .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&v=17PAMFN02js

MornaBaine

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Last I heard it was still being planned but later when the PVP portion of the justice system get incorporated .

I'm not sure what you're responding to. Could you elaborate please?

Vampires getting attacked by guards and players at stage 4 .

I hadn't heard that. Could you please link your source? I'd be pretty happy if this were true!

I've listened to so many pod casts I can't remember the exact one . They had Paul sage on and he said they still had these things planned for the justice system just at a later date after they have the bugs worked out from the pvE portion . I think it was ESO behind the scenes podcast or something similar . Apologies , I'll try to find it if I can .

Thanks, I'd appreciate it!

I think it's in this one . I'm not fully awake yet N need to get coffee but pretty sure this is the one .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&v=17PAMFN02js

OK thanks I'll check it out!

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

I just finished that youtube interview and there was nothing said about vampires, not that I heard anyway. but I am old and may have missed it.

Cody

Why don't you feed and people wont be able to tell you are a vampire?

man i wish town guards attacked stage four vampires like they did in Oblivion; it would be such fun to watch a poor vamp being chased by 15 invincible town guards that all have pull chain and cant be fooled by cloak:)

MornaBaine

Cody wrote: »

Why don't you feed and people wont be able to tell you are a vampire?

That's exactly what would need to happen in the event Stage 4 aggros the guards. It would give players incentive to make their vampires feed which is what is currently lacking.

Cody wrote: »

man i wish town guards attacked stage four vampires like they did in Oblivion; it would be such fun to watch a poor vamp being chased by 15 invincible town guards that all have pull chain and cant be fooled by cloak:)

As some who plays a vampire, yes, this is exactly what I want. This adds additional challenge and inconvenience to playing a vampire which is exactly what needs to happen.

MornaBaine

nightwalkerrobin_ESO wrote: »

I just finished that youtube interview and there was nothing said about vampires, not that I heard anyway. but I am old and may have missed it.

Once I clicked on it I realized I'd listened to it before as well. I don't recall Sage mentioning vampires on that one.

Valmond

MornaBaine wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Why don't you feed and people wont be able to tell you are a vampire?

That's exactly what would need to happen in the event Stage 4 aggros the guards. It would give players incentive to make their vampires feed which is what is currently lacking.

Cody wrote: »

man i wish town guards attacked stage four vampires like they did in Oblivion; it would be such fun to watch a poor vamp being chased by 15 invincible town guards that all have pull chain and cant be fooled by cloak:)

As some who plays a vampire, yes, this is exactly what I want. This adds additional challenge and inconvenience to playing a vampire which is exactly what needs to happen.

The only reason i don't keep myself as stage 1 is because the hasle of constantly having to leave my current zone or dungeon just to find a single mob i can sneak up on and drain every 30 minutes is way too much.

As it is, the stage timer needs to be several times longer, and the penalties/rewards that come from increased stages need to be increased, to make it worth feeding.

As for being attacked on sight if i'm stage 4 vampire and get spotted by guards/civilians in broad daylight, hell yes.

MornaBaine

Valmond wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Why don't you feed and people wont be able to tell you are a vampire?

That's exactly what would need to happen in the event Stage 4 aggros the guards. It would give players incentive to make their vampires feed which is what is currently lacking.

Cody wrote: »

man i wish town guards attacked stage four vampires like they did in Oblivion; it would be such fun to watch a poor vamp being chased by 15 invincible town guards that all have pull chain and cant be fooled by cloak:)

As some who plays a vampire, yes, this is exactly what I want. This adds additional challenge and inconvenience to playing a vampire which is exactly what needs to happen.

The only reason i don't keep myself as stage 1 is because the hasle of constantly having to leave my current zone or dungeon just to find a single mob i can sneak up on and drain every 30 minutes is way too much.

As it is, the stage timer needs to be several times longer, and the penalties/rewards that come from increased stages need to be increased, to make it worth feeding.

As for being attacked on sight if i'm stage 4 vampire and get spotted by guards/civilians in broad daylight, hell yes.

Exactly this.

StihlReign

@ZOS_PaulSage If Vampires want to hide in plain sight, they should have decreased health anytime the Sun is out and they're out - in PvP and PvE.

They should also be banned (grey out from use) ANY Fighters Guild ability while they retain the disease.

phreatophile

StihlReign wrote: »

@ZOS_PaulSage If Vampires want to hide in plain sight, they should have decreased health anytime the Sun is out and they're out - in PvP and PvE.

They should also be banned (grey out from use) ANY Fighters Guild ability while they retain the disease.

Re: daylight. I'm all for daylight penalties provided day and night are the same length (days are much longer now) and the penalties don't follow us indoors. The lore that was concocted for our specific bloodline screams "because MMO" and ought to be jettisoned as the silliness that it is. I'd like to see major or even total debuffs for all three regens in daylight that go away in the dark. 100%(Zero) health/magicka/stamina regen debuff in daylight at stage 4 to 25% at stage 1 would be my preference.

Re: Fighter's guild. I'm not so sure about this one. Especially the extra damage passives that anyone who has leveled the skilline has against vampires; we have no counter. We have been nerfed pretty hard already, this would have been appropriate before all the nerfs and would be again if ZOS were to un-nerf vampires. The guild accepts daedra worshipers in it's highest ranks, I'm not sure there's a logical explaination for not being able to use the skills and passives at all. A small(5% increasing to 25%) chance to have a skill rebound and harm the vampire using it that increases with stage would be very cool, but the passives should stay. Anybody remember using Dawnbreaker as a vampire in Skyrim? It hurt.

Valmond wrote: »

As for being attacked on sight if i'm stage 4 vampire and get spotted by guards/civilians in broad daylight, hell yes.

I'm all for this. I would extend it to same faction guards in Cyrodil, too, with the caveat that they notice you only out of combat for a minute or two to keep them from turning on you during a fight. Also, comments about our "condition" should start at stage 2, some merchants should refuse us service at stage 3, and every merchant except fences should refuse us and attack/run at stage 4.

Hamfast

I seem to remember something about the developers running into a problem with changing reactions of NPC's due to the stage a vampire was in... but my mind is not as good as it used to be.

I would also like to hear the ideas on the future of Vampires, from @ZOS_PaulSage if he could be convinced to lower himself to reply to this segment of the population, but I would accept @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else who wishes to address the subject... I would even accept something from @ZOS_JasonLeavey'sHair...

Concerns are - (feel free to add some)
- Justice system/NPC Reactions to vampires at different stages
- Changing the looks of Vampires at different stages from more normal (stage 1) to monstrous (Stage 4)
- Changing the feeding schedule for vampires (more time to play between stages)
- Costumes/Potions that Vampires can use to "Hide" their affliction
- Any changes to "Time of Day" that may be in the future (Day time, Night Time, Underground)
- Anything else they feel we would like to hear...

MornaBaine

Hamfast wrote: »

I seem to remember something about the developers running into a problem with changing reactions of NPC's due to the stage a vampire was in... but my mind is not as good as it used to be.

I would also like to hear the ideas on the future of Vampires, from @ZOS_PaulSage if he could be convinced to lower himself to reply to this segment of the population, but I would accept @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else who wishes to address the subject... I would even accept something from @ZOS_JasonLeavey'sHair...

Concerns are - (feel free to add some)
- Justice system/NPC Reactions to vampires at different stages
- Changing the looks of Vampires at different stages from more normal (stage 1) to monstrous (Stage 4)
- Changing the feeding schedule for vampires (more time to play between stages)
- Costumes/Potions that Vampires can use to "Hide" their affliction
- Any changes to "Time of Day" that may be in the future (Day time, Night Time, Underground)
- Anything else they feel we would like to hear...

Honestly, if they ever (any of them) seriously replied to one of my vampire threads the shock might kill me. Nevertheless, I'd be willing to risk it! LOL

AureateRN

MornaBaine wrote: »

nightwalkerrobin_ESO wrote: »

Paul Sage also said that guards would notice stage 4 vampires and werewolves that transform in the cites. Well I have tested it and the guards don't care. So I guess he has not answered you because he really does not have an answer. He obviously did not know how the reactions of the guards was supposed to be with the Justice System.

It's just really frustrating that Sage and apparently all of ZOS refuse to address ANY questions regarding vampires. I know I'm not "special" because I watch them ignore every other vampire thread that ever gets posted as well, no matter who it is by.

Don't feel too terribly singled out. Since April 2014 (and before really, given beta commentary) ZOS has ignored ALL requests that have anything to do with changes in/much needed fixes to physical appearance issues.

At the same time that same misleading paragraph is EVERYWHERE, from the start screen to advertising to the top of this page, crowing about their new alleged "cosmetic items" ...which aren't.

Have none of them been through a department store? Costumes are NOT sold in the cosmetics department. Cosmetic items would alter HAIR and FACE, like makeup and hairstyle. Costumes are clothing/armor items. They consist of a few RP pieces that can be stolen, some armor sets and that ...white atrocity that we can purchase with CPs.

Since launch, and with the exception of some beast race specific helmet/gear clipping and fit issues, ZOS has ignored cosmetic/character fix related posts and questions except to say on occasion, and walking their promises farther and farther back as time goes on, that a fix is in the works involving players helping other players, which has not, a year later, yet happened.

In fact SOMEONE'S pet "dentures for NPCs project" with the creepy grey teeth and grey lips for most npcs is the only thing I've seen that approaches any kind of cosmetics change, and it was completely unnecessary. Better to have waited for better technology. Having worked in dentistry and as a nurse before the biomed field and having partnered with speech therapists for my patients I am less impressed than repulsed by the mechanics to be honest. In fact I find it distracting...and aggravating when I think of the time, effort and resources poured into it, which I feel would have been FAR better spent elsewhere, like fixing the OBVIOUS character creation mode vs in-game mode differences which have most people, at least males, giving up and running around in full coverage helmets at all times, which is utterly disappointing in an MMORPG. How can you see people as people when they all look like walking suits of armor but for the colors they choose and perhaps a tail here or there? It's SO impersonal!

Clearly the unfairness of making vampires BLAZE like neon lights at midnight from day one of life ...unlife with an extremely slow initial skill build curve, PLUS failing to compensate for the "ugly" with any kind of realistic power from inception forward to compensate for the fact that NPCs have magic vampire detection and the fact that other players can identify them from a very long distance away is just ...another example of how one class/subclass of player ALWAYS has to be on the bottom rung of the NERF ladder...or maybe it's the top rung. Either way, it's NOT fair...especially to vampires.

I'd really like to see some of the laid off staff rehired and put to work on these issues now that people are buying the game to play for "free". At least some of the profit should be invested back into issues existing (read loyal) players care about. We ARE still the paying base upon which the fly by night players come and go.

Tough love is still love, and I do love this game.

Gan Xing

tldr

I do want to note that if you have a certain addon (and this may have already been said), you can see if the opponent is a vampire or werewolf if you look at them (you see their buffs/debuffs)

MornaBaine

Gan Xing wrote: »

tldr

I do want to note that if you have a certain addon (and this may have already been said), you can see if the opponent is a vampire or werewolf if you look at them (you see their buffs/debuffs)

I never fail to be astonished by people who boast that they don't read things ...and then offer opinions anyway. And yes, I'm aware of the infamous add-on. As is ZOS.

WraithAzraiel

MornaBaine wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

tldr

I do want to note that if you have a certain addon (and this may have already been said), you can see if the opponent is a vampire or werewolf if you look at them (you see their buffs/debuffs)

I never fail to be astonished by people who boast that they don't read things ...and then offer opinions anyway. And yes, I'm aware of the infamous add-on. As is ZOS.

Hilarious ain't it?

Gan Xing

OK..

Actually went and read through.

1. I agree with a lot of what you guys said about how the vampirism should be able to have a passive that can hide your look, or go from tier 1 (more normal) to tier 4 (more monstrous).
2. I also think that they should have implemented the part where the guards attack you if they see that you are tier 4 vampire.
3. I have a Khajiit, and was discussing on a different feed how odd it was that a Khajiit's fur changed color when it became a vampire. Considering the phenology of animals (and humans) it made little sense.

Schurge

I like the way I look... Beautiful and alien at stage 1... emotionless evil undead at stage 4... the inability to blend in is the least of the vampire's problems.... Just did Riven-whatever where the entire zone was about vampires in my vet grind and the fact that my eyes were white... face bruised and sunken... no one recognized me as a vampire... no new dialogue options, nothing was disappointing.

I don't know why it seems a lot more people are more upset about the visual changes rather then the fact that vampirism (and lycanthropy) were implemented all wrong. Vampirism is basically a skin and debuff you trade for Dark Stalker.

Vampirism should have been rare and hard to get, alter the PvE experience completely, and offer a high risk high reward play style for PvP.