Vampires - It's not enough

MADshadowman · February 2015

awkwarrd wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Even though this is only about vamps and i don't really want ww talk in here, i feel you and admit that ww are only a little better designed than vamps and both miss a lot of stuff to make them viable and fun. I wonder if we would get more attention if we would fight together for the changes we want.

Yeah, i apologize for bringing WW into the argument.

You're right i feel WW and VAMP fighting together on a feedback front would be more beneficial.

It's hard to bring up one without the other, since they are both in the same lore structure within TES.

I really could go on and on about both in a huge post, but i stop myself, as you'v seen in previous replies.

Both WW and VAMP being in ESO is great, but it's also not great, because they aren't given justice at all.
They both get way more CONS than PROS, and if it wasn't for SORC and DK abusing broken mechanics, they probably wouldn't even have been given a 2nd look.

I have read through this thread, and countless others, and i have seen some really horrible suggestions.. and some really good suggestions.
And majority of them look at both WW and VAMP in the same light as a developer and not from a game perspective, the more technical vs the more fun.

While im sure there are WW who might disagree with me on some points, i bet that the WW community is just happy they are getting something.. if anything.. after 9months of just being neglected.
They would accept anything at this poin, regardless of if it was fun or good, having multiple howls like they are a foghorn on and oldschool lighthouse.
The WW has soo many more possibilities that would make the damn sub-class fun, and i wish the DEVs would just stop and smile and do something good instead of getting way too boxed in.

Where as the Vampire community just seems to be getting the middle finger after being hit so hard with so many nerfs primarily because of class's able to abuse the mechanics.

So basically every 9 months either WW or VAMP will get an update, and probably will be added to the game via a DLC after 1.6.
And from 1.6, i think VAMP is next on the rotation for getting an update.. hopefully.. but VAMPs will need to wait another 9months.

Every one of those "the road ahead" blogs, completely ignores the 2 sub-class's or factions, and are just slightly mentioned in vague patch notes, that's it..

It's a pretty poor design in general..
For example:
A DK can be a vamp, with fire abilities in his bar.. and the fighters guild silver bolts in his bar, and he can still function at 100% with no drawbacks.
All he has to worry about is "Poison" or "Fire" and "the fighters guild tree".
Not the fact he is technically abusing more mechanics.. like being able to use fire and poison.. and silver bolts.. and there is nothing to deter him.. from using things that are fatal to him, just like how they were able to stack ulti-reduction and spam batswarm for 3 weeks when the exploiters discovered the bug.. 3 weeks it took to fix that.. with multiple nerf patches to vamp along that "the road ahead" which was mentioned via patch notes yet again..

I guess DKs would disagree with me whole heartedly about my examples of VAMP DKs.
But i didn't design the VAMP to be susceptible to fire, i didn't design the DK to have a dang fire whip and breath..

I didn't make the elements affect the sub-class's this way.

I didn't think of a horrible mechanic vs a fun one when using element abilities in a subclass.

I didn't make the WW and VAMP disease giving spawns easily killable by 1 person who is low level.

I didn't design the disease giving spawns to not represent the evil and fear they should in the public, basically because they knew the mechanics designed for the sub-class were going to be crap and tweaked and nerfed every 9 months or until a bug was exploited and abused.

I didn't make the DK able to use everything the game has to offer with no LORE-WALL while still trying to balance the sub-class WW and VAMP around the Lore.

Im just voicing feedback and making suggestions, sure some of them sound harsh, but i hope the DEVs wear some beer-goggles when reading what i say and notice the poetry in my words, because i don't mean for my frustration to shine through and i hope that is how it's viewed.
Or else it's just going to be like Jay Wilson kind of development with Bobby Kotich pulling the strings in the background.
If you all can remember quotes from either of those people, let's hope the ESO DEVs are better in all aspects..
Bobby Kotich was a gaming monster that designed games for money and is even quoted as saying that in an interview, and Jay Wilson just insults people and customers.
I would hate to be able to compare ESO staff to either of them.

God.. i did it again.. look at the size of this dang post..

Well, your long posts only show that there is a lot to be said. The sad thing is that we will not get a response no matter how much we post in here. I mean we're at almost 5k views and over 200 comments and nothing, not a single word from any of the staff members. It is just insulting and hurting to be ignored like that.

awkwarrd · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Well, your long posts only show that there is a lot to be said. The sad thing is that we will not get a response no matter how much we post in here. I mean we're at almost 5k views and over 200 comments and nothing, not a single word from any of the staff members. It is just insulting and hurting to be ignored like that.

Well it's nice to know the ESO DEVs are consistent.
Back in the day it was exactly the same, until a game breaking bug was found, they never said anything, and what they did say was in a patch note with stupidly vague information.

I remember a bunch of people and myself posting about how vague the patch notes were, because the tooltips were broken and bugged so you couldn't really tell in-game without downloading a bunch of addons to test it.

I really should have known that nothing has really changed, since the batswarm cost tooltip is still saying the wrong information.
It takes 9 months to patch a tooltip from another patch way back in the day, and people did tell them about it, but obviously they have done nothing about it since then.

I don't even know if the 1.6 tooltip is fixed.. so longer than 9months if it isn't.

That pretty much says it all about the DEVs on WW and VAMP if that is correct.

No wonder they are giving a mount for loyal players for subscribing during all of this, because whats to stop them from unsubbing because regardless of what people tell them, it means jack, and money will decide everything.

That's pretty much how "The Shroud of the Avatar" is being developed.
Maybe that is just how business do their business now and forever.
Maybe ESO isn't strong enough to stand up and do it differently, but then again the cash-shop is probably the best i'v seen in a long while, except i don't really know the Crowns to $$ ratio when they release.
After seeing the ESO BETA and the changes when launched and then them adding things to the game that weren't even in the PTR in previous PTR's so they couldn't even be tested and were infact broken when they patched, i rarely believe anything from this game until it's launched to see how it is going to be, then watch the vague patch notes hotfixing everything after that.

The loyalty people who subbed for 300 days.. deserve more than a mount for being such a die-hard kinda weirdo individual/fan to enjoy a game through all of that.
I guess they should feel lucky in general to be getting anything at all though.
Then again the mount looks ok, but i say that from a guy who has mounts that are neglected, i couldn't give half a crap about mounts in this game, from the start they always dismounted you for no dang reason, and i just was not interested in them bcoz it took so very long for them to fix it, while leaving the "infinite" stamina on them bugged and broken.
A mount just takes you from A to B.. and the rest of the time you are either crouched or using siege or in a dungeon or something or grinding.. i couldn't care at all for a special mount in this game.

Hortator Mopa · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

All my toons are vampires. I enjoy being a vampire, not only for the skills and passives, but also for RP reasons (even though i don't really RP).

Vampires were pretty strong in the beginning, maybe a little too strong, since then they have taken a good beating with the nerf hammer and now they feel like a collection of misadvantages with abilities that can't make up for that.

We take 50% more fire damage.
We have a 75% reduced health regen.
We're always in vampire form, so fighters guild abilities work on us at all times.

Of course there have to be some disadvantages, but what do we get for being so vulnerable?

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.

Drain Essence
Only useful in PVE, but not really worth replacing another skill with it. In PVP it rarely works. If the target is blocking or using immovable, the skill won't work. If you can really place it on a player, he just breaks out of it. After you used it once, even if it got cancelled immediately, you can't use it again on this target.

Mist Form
This used to be a good getaway move, before it was nerfed. Now you won't regen magicka while you're in mistform, which means you can't use it that much anymore and after several casts, you will be out of magicka and be very vulnerable.

We also have the feeding self-synergy, but it's so hard to place it in PVP and it does no damage, it only heals us and puts an unbreakable stun on the target. In 1.6 this will no longer be the case, since this patch makes the feeding synergy stun breakable. Obviously there were enough DKs that complained about other people having a counter to their invincibility. Thanks for that.

Then there are 6 passives, 2 of them are not worth taking: Savage feeding and blood ritual.

That's it, that's the vampire. There is not much that makes you feel like a vampire. Only 3 active skills? More looks like a party gimmick.

When i was testing stuff on the PTS i took a look at the WW skill line and was a little shocked, cause there were so many active skills and even though i haven't tested them, the option to fill an entire skillbar with these abilities is just amazing.

Why can't vampires have as many active abilities? This would allow us to really play a vampire and not just a hobby clown with some little tricks.

Here is a visual comparison of these 2 skill lines

That looks a little unfair to me, since we have to find someone that can bite us, or find npc vamps that bite us, then complete the vamp quest and live with our weaknesses and disadvantages AT ALL TIMES. We cannot toggle this on and off, we have to commit to this and stick with it.

This is not about making vamps OP, this is just about giving us more options to really play as a vampire, to make it feel like we're actual vampires.

Please no stupid vamp hate comments, please keep this discussion objective and constructive.

I'd also like to involve our spokeswoman @MornaBaine‌ in this discussion.

lol.

MornaBaine · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Well, your long posts only show that there is a lot to be said. The sad thing is that we will not get a response no matter how much we post in here. I mean we're at almost 5k views and over 200 comments and nothing, not a single word from any of the staff members. It is just insulting and hurting to be ignored like that.

Yep, it's been ignored even more than this thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/137957/some-suggestions-for-improving-vampires/p1

Digiman · February 2015

Hope they remove the limit per targets use on drain essence now it can be broken out of it.

It seems really restrictive and basically makes it unattractive to use come 1.6.

awkwarrd · February 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Yep, it's been ignored even more than this thread:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/137957/some-suggestions-for-improving-vampires/p1

That guy talks too much, it's unfair but true, his skyscraper of text without bbcodes just makes it a horrible read.
Even though DEVs don't read these threads anyway, and it looks like even mods stay clear of these threads too now.

It's hard to agree with that thread.
Because he basically just brings the Vampire world crashing down.

He talks about the Lore, and just destroys ZoS's interpretation of the TES universe, he takes the lore in multiple directions and shows how it's broken in ESO.

He makes a few suggestions.. btw none of which you can tell are suggestions by skimming the page, there is no usage of bbcodes other than linking images and videos, it really is a dry thread.

There are basically only 2 suggestions i would bother to add from his page.

Changing the feeding animation, his description is basically a rabid squirrel that launch's onto the back of the target and starts biting their neck wildly and splashing blood everywhere.
Giving VAMP their own emotes, seems legit, why not?.

Digiman wrote: »

Hope they remove the limit per targets use on drain essence now it can be broken out of it.

It seems really restrictive and basically makes it unattractive to use come 1.6.

I think that should have always been the case.
I would have always preferred a tether like mechanic.. and being able to use the feed more than once.

How can the enemy still be standing and fighting you, if you just drained all their blood and you can't drink anymore? and for some reason they turn black.. not red asin covered in blood.. but black.. wtf why do ppl turn black after being fed on..
But anyway..the enemy is still dancing with their sword out.. with no blood left in them.. and you can't feed on them again.. because.. they are black? that's kinda racist.. im not sure how to interpret what i am seeing before my very eyes..

This is a general breakdown..

You are in a fight with someone/something..
You use Vampire drain blood on them, stunning them for some stupid reason.
A lazer of blood drains from their head to your mouth.
The enemy who is being fed on, appears to be floating for some unknown reason during this.
While feeding, your animation appears to be waving the blood on, like a 3rd base coach in baseball, unless you have a costume on for some reason.
The feeding stops, the enemy now turns black.
You cannot ever feed on them again.. ever.. they must die and respawn before you can feed on them again.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has problems with police.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has problems with raising children.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has problems with hailing a taxi.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has problems with attending school regularly.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has problems with anything with a white color.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has no problem with sports.
Meanwhile your enemy.. now has no problem fighting other black people.

And all because the Vampire just happen to feed on them and turn them black.

Which is why i think VAMPS deserve to get a facelift on mechanics and animations.
Will it ever happen? No.. i can honestly say i don't think the DEVs will ever re-visit the vampire game-play.

VileIntent · February 2015

Vampire Changes

Vampirism Stage Changes
Stage 1
*You take 25% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 5% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)

Stage 2
*You take 50% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Health regeneration is reduced by 25%
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 15% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)
*Your Vampire abilities cost 25% less to use.

Stage 3
*You take 75% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Health regeneration is reduced by 50%
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 25% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)
*Your Vampire abilities cost 50% less to use.

Stage 4
*You take 100% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Health regeneration is reduced by 100%
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 35% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)
*Your Vampire abilities cost 80% less to use.

Vampirism Stage Timers
Stage 1 to Stage 2 : 2 hours
Stage 2 to Stage 3 : 3 hours
Stage 3 to Stage 4 : 4 hours
*These times are modified by the passive Unquenchable Thirst*

Bat Swarm - no changes to base ability besides base Ultimate cost increased to 600 Ultimate
Morph 1
Clouding Swarm - Changed to Revitalizing Swarm
Revitalizing Swarm - Damage by bats unchanged Magic damage to enemies every 1.0 second for 6.0 seconds
and drain (same as health in devouring swarm) Magicka / Stamina for each target affected.
*This version of bat swarm works just like Devouring Swarm but returns magicka and stamina to the player instead of health*
Morph 2
Devouring Swarm - Unchanged

Active Abilities
Drain Essence - Base skill mechanics unchanged with 1 exception the stun is removed and target snared 60%,
the channel is removed and the animation changed to that of the npc vampires when they feed on you.

This skill works like the undaunted 2 piece (Malubeth the Scourger's set) where it lasts 3 seconds as long as you
stay in a 10 meter range.
The "cannot be applied to targets which have recently been drained or feed upon."
is being changed. This Internal cooldown needs to be set at a base 50 seconds, it will be modified by the
Vampires ability cost reduction as per their Vampirism Stage. I.E...
Stage 1 : 50 seconds (no cost reduction)
Stage 2 : 37.5 seconds (25% reduction)
Stage 3 : 25 seconds (50% reduction)
Stage 4 : 10 seconds (80% reduction)
This also needs be a per vampire player specific cooldown. Currently it places a debuff on the target and stops
any player from using drain on the debuffed target no matter who casted it. As the stun is removed to keep from
stun locking a single target in place there should be no reason for multiple vampires casting Drain Essence on a
single target. This also should allow the ability to be used on Boss type creatures immune to snare effects.

This is to help offset the fact that the vampire is taking larger amounts of damage and at stage 4 has a 100% health
regen penalty. The ability now becomes a tool for vampire survivability which takes up a bar slot.

Drain Essence Morph 1
Invigorating Drain - Unchanged

Morph 2
Midnight Drain - Remove the Nighttime requirement. Just label as Recovery is more effective. Player recovers 300%
of damage as health and stamina every 1 second.
*This change now gives vampire tanks a morph option leaving the ultimate gain for healer and dps types*
This will promote a variety of choice options as a vampire player.*

Mist Form - This ability functions the same but will now list as:
Take 75% reduced damage from all sources and 80% reduced healing received for 3 seconds. Ranks remain
the same increasing time to 4 seconds.

Morph 1
Elusive Mist - This morph should be returned to it's original speed boost increasing movement speed by 55%

Morph 2
Poison Mist is removed
New Morph - Regenerating Mist - Reduce Healing reduction by 5% per rank.
Rank 1 75%
Rank 2 70%
Rank 3 65%
Rank 4 60%

*These changes now cater to the 2 types of players while providing some minor healing so it isn't exploitive.
The speed boost favors the PvPer while the healing reduction favors the PvE player as a "oh crap" button.

Magicka and Ultimate costs need to be increased to balance the rewards vs the risk aspect of the skill line. The
stage vampire cost reductions are in place to give the player a sense of growing in power as you stage up
while the ultimate and magicka cost of lower stages keeps them from being abused at lower risks. Usable but not spammable!
I suggest the following base line costs:
Bat Swarm: 600 Ultimate (@Stage 4 it is 120 Ultimate)
Drain Essence: 350 Magicka (@Stage 4 it is 70 Magicka)
Mist Form: 700 Magicka (@Stage 4 it is 140 Magicka)

Passive Skills

Savage Feeding dropped to a 1 point passive -
After feeding, your target is off-balance and stunned for 4 seconds.

Supernatural Recovery still 2 points *changed from recovery to max*
1 point increases Max Magicka and Stamina by 10%
2 points increases Max magicka and Stamina by 20%

Blood Ritual - ADD can only be used on a level 50 character in prep for Champion release.
*This is a change i feel is needed to keep low level players from becoming to powerful. It is also to easy to get now.
If the player can acquire a bite pre 50 through the npc spawns then let that slide. This at least brings back the
groups hunting for bites.*

Undeath 2 skill points
1 point unchanged
2 point change mitagation to 35% starting at 50% health with full mitagation of 35% by 35% health.
*This basically gives the full mitagtion by 1/3 (35%) of the vampires life left.*

Unnatural Resistance - removed, ADD
Unquenchable Thirst - 2 skill points ( using 1 from the first passive I took from so total skill points is the same.)
1 point Reduces the time between Vampire Stages by 40%
2 points Reduces the time between Vampire Stages by 80%
*This gives the players direct control on how they want to manage their stages of vampirism. Some felt in the
begining the time was to fast while others to slow. This also allows players the option to not stage as fast so they
don't have to cure vampire, but yet not be so vulnerable to certain game mechaincs like those in Veteran Dragon Soul Arena
and Veteran City of Ash.*
Stage 1 to 2 : 2 hours normal, @40% 1 hour 12min., @80% 24min. Current is 30min.
Stage 2 to 3 : 3 hours normal, @40% 1 hour 48min., @80% 36min. Current is 1 hour.
Stage 3 to 4 : 4 hours normal, @40% 2 hours 24min., @80% 48min. Current is 1 hour 30min.
*Of these times players can complete Veteran DSA before becoming extremely vulnerable to
Fire and Fighters Guild abilities.*

Dark Stalker - passive is unchanged

i submitted this concept a month ago and was given no consideration. deemed to op. but the passive ability was obviously overlooked when they were considering the skills. im done with Vampires being a 1 button skill line and forced to sit out of vet dsa because of it

MADshadowman · February 2015

VileIntent wrote: »

Vampire Changes

Vampirism Stage Changes
Stage 1
*You take 25% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 5% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)

Stage 2
*You take 50% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Health regeneration is reduced by 25%
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 15% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)
*Your Vampire abilities cost 25% less to use.

Stage 3
*You take 75% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Health regeneration is reduced by 50%
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 25% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)
*Your Vampire abilities cost 50% less to use.

Stage 4
*You take 100% more damage from Fire attacks and Fighters Guild abilities.
*Your Health regeneration is reduced by 100%
*Your Undeath makes you more resilient 35% bonus to Health (unmodified by caps)
*Your Vampire abilities cost 80% less to use.

Vampirism Stage Timers
Stage 1 to Stage 2 : 2 hours
Stage 2 to Stage 3 : 3 hours
Stage 3 to Stage 4 : 4 hours
*These times are modified by the passive Unquenchable Thirst*

Bat Swarm - no changes to base ability besides base Ultimate cost increased to 600 Ultimate
Morph 1
Clouding Swarm - Changed to Revitalizing Swarm
Revitalizing Swarm - Damage by bats unchanged Magic damage to enemies every 1.0 second for 6.0 seconds
and drain (same as health in devouring swarm) Magicka / Stamina for each target affected.
*This version of bat swarm works just like Devouring Swarm but returns magicka and stamina to the player instead of health*
Morph 2
Devouring Swarm - Unchanged

Active Abilities
Drain Essence - Base skill mechanics unchanged with 1 exception the stun is removed and target snared 60%,
the channel is removed and the animation changed to that of the npc vampires when they feed on you.

This skill works like the undaunted 2 piece (Malubeth the Scourger's set) where it lasts 3 seconds as long as you
stay in a 10 meter range.
The "cannot be applied to targets which have recently been drained or feed upon."
is being changed. This Internal cooldown needs to be set at a base 50 seconds, it will be modified by the
Vampires ability cost reduction as per their Vampirism Stage. I.E...
Stage 1 : 50 seconds (no cost reduction)
Stage 2 : 37.5 seconds (25% reduction)
Stage 3 : 25 seconds (50% reduction)
Stage 4 : 10 seconds (80% reduction)
This also needs be a per vampire player specific cooldown. Currently it places a debuff on the target and stops
any player from using drain on the debuffed target no matter who casted it. As the stun is removed to keep from
stun locking a single target in place there should be no reason for multiple vampires casting Drain Essence on a
single target. This also should allow the ability to be used on Boss type creatures immune to snare effects.

This is to help offset the fact that the vampire is taking larger amounts of damage and at stage 4 has a 100% health
regen penalty. The ability now becomes a tool for vampire survivability which takes up a bar slot.

Drain Essence Morph 1
Invigorating Drain - Unchanged

Morph 2
Midnight Drain - Remove the Nighttime requirement. Just label as Recovery is more effective. Player recovers 300%
of damage as health and stamina every 1 second.
*This change now gives vampire tanks a morph option leaving the ultimate gain for healer and dps types*
This will promote a variety of choice options as a vampire player.*

Mist Form - This ability functions the same but will now list as:
Take 75% reduced damage from all sources and 80% reduced healing received for 3 seconds. Ranks remain
the same increasing time to 4 seconds.

Morph 1
Elusive Mist - This morph should be returned to it's original speed boost increasing movement speed by 55%

Morph 2
Poison Mist is removed
New Morph - Regenerating Mist - Reduce Healing reduction by 5% per rank.
Rank 1 75%
Rank 2 70%
Rank 3 65%
Rank 4 60%

*These changes now cater to the 2 types of players while providing some minor healing so it isn't exploitive.
The speed boost favors the PvPer while the healing reduction favors the PvE player as a "oh crap" button.

Magicka and Ultimate costs need to be increased to balance the rewards vs the risk aspect of the skill line. The
stage vampire cost reductions are in place to give the player a sense of growing in power as you stage up
while the ultimate and magicka cost of lower stages keeps them from being abused at lower risks. Usable but not spammable!
I suggest the following base line costs:
Bat Swarm: 600 Ultimate (@Stage 4 it is 120 Ultimate)
Drain Essence: 350 Magicka (@Stage 4 it is 70 Magicka)
Mist Form: 700 Magicka (@Stage 4 it is 140 Magicka)

Passive Skills

Savage Feeding dropped to a 1 point passive -
After feeding, your target is off-balance and stunned for 4 seconds.

Supernatural Recovery still 2 points *changed from recovery to max*
1 point increases Max Magicka and Stamina by 10%
2 points increases Max magicka and Stamina by 20%

Blood Ritual - ADD can only be used on a level 50 character in prep for Champion release.
*This is a change i feel is needed to keep low level players from becoming to powerful. It is also to easy to get now.
If the player can acquire a bite pre 50 through the npc spawns then let that slide. This at least brings back the
groups hunting for bites.*

Undeath 2 skill points
1 point unchanged
2 point change mitagation to 35% starting at 50% health with full mitagation of 35% by 35% health.
*This basically gives the full mitagtion by 1/3 (35%) of the vampires life left.*

Unnatural Resistance - removed, ADD
Unquenchable Thirst - 2 skill points ( using 1 from the first passive I took from so total skill points is the same.)
1 point Reduces the time between Vampire Stages by 40%
2 points Reduces the time between Vampire Stages by 80%
*This gives the players direct control on how they want to manage their stages of vampirism. Some felt in the
begining the time was to fast while others to slow. This also allows players the option to not stage as fast so they
don't have to cure vampire, but yet not be so vulnerable to certain game mechaincs like those in Veteran Dragon Soul Arena
and Veteran City of Ash.*
Stage 1 to 2 : 2 hours normal, @40% 1 hour 12min., @80% 24min. Current is 30min.
Stage 2 to 3 : 3 hours normal, @40% 1 hour 48min., @80% 36min. Current is 1 hour.
Stage 3 to 4 : 4 hours normal, @40% 2 hours 24min., @80% 48min. Current is 1 hour 30min.
*Of these times players can complete Veteran DSA before becoming extremely vulnerable to
Fire and Fighters Guild abilities.*

Dark Stalker - passive is unchanged

i submitted this concept a month ago and was given no consideration. deemed to op. but the passive ability was obviously overlooked when they were considering the skills. im done with Vampires being a 1 button skill line and forced to sit out of vet dsa because of it

Thanks for posting these suggestions, but i think this is not really what we're looking for anyway. I would much rather focus on bringing new abilities to the game, instead of just tweaking the existing ones, since these abilities are not very usefull. Sure, they need some tweaking but the main issue with being a vampire is that you have not enough options to actively play as one.

600 ultimate for bat swarm doesn't bear a relation to what it does. this would be almost 3 x the cost of other ultimates. this would be a huge nerf to an already heavily nerfed skill.

But it doesn't matter what we suggest, no one is listening to us anyway.

BlueIllyrian · February 2015

I agree it's not enough, they should sparkle.

Ajantear · February 2015

Anything that allows the Vampire player to mask there appearance would be welcome. I'm tired of walking into the bank and 3/4 of the people there you would stab on sight if there was even the slightest semblance of (fantasy) realism, RP or immersion in this game.

A simple auto charm ability as soon as you entered a populated area would work.

I also think WW transformation should not be voluntary. I'm not really sure if that would work from a game play point of view but in the parallel world were some people actually RP it would be great.

I have 2 WW characters and it is quite a nice, if short lived, berserker mode. I would like to try Vampire on another character but am put off by the shear number of them around already.

Ultimately I think the whole system for become them needs to be changed. Remove the time of the month spawns. Remove the ability for players to infect. Make 'any' hit from 'any' npc Vampire or Werewolf have a chance to infect, but make it really tiny EG 1:100000.

EDIT: actually that's a dumb method. It would just have people stood for hours taking hits off low level WWs and Vamps. The devs should come up with a number of obscure conditions that have to be met that are never publicised so people cannot easily work it out and 'go for it' like they do now. It should be both rare and unexpected.

Perichor · February 2015

im not into the whole lore of the elder scrolls BUT from what i hear is vampires in the elder scrolls universe are supposed to be these badass beings and in ESO it just doesnt seem to be that way i agree

WE NEED DOUBLE AOE FROM BATSWARM
each and every single bat in the batswarm is actually a dk
and each and every single bat in the batswarm drops a banner and spamms talons
the ulti cost needs to be somwhere around

oh idk

9

and also a vampire should be able to hang upside down on the ceiling

JUST

SAYAN

Beerbill · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Bat swarm is a problem when spammed by a large group as the same way all ultimate are (aka Banner, Nova, Negate you get the drift)

Beerbill · February 2015

Here are my suggestions:

Abilities:

Drain - it's problem now including PvE it's because it applies stun first then the drain effect which sucks because you can't use on blocking targets or bosses.

Solution: Make it a spell that you can spam reduce the damage and drain provide this should be like a channeled drain life that you could use for dps, this could still stun (with dimishing returns) if you channeled for all its duration. Make a morph for stamina and make it reduce the stage you are at (more details a head).

Mist form - i think is ridiculous that you can't use anything when affected by it, of course it's nice 75% dmg reduction but you can't get healed or sprint or nothing, also have a huge cost for stamina builds also breaks if you block.

Solution: I don't really have a suggestion, make it in pair with another spell or make possible to at least sprint for its duration.

Passive:

Satiate / Self Control / Will of the Darkness (Doesn't matter the name) - passive that increases the time needed to change between the stages like 200% or more it sucks have to feed in Cyrodiil or Trial every 30 min to not be affected by the health reduction (make it optional for some people may like charging stages fast for RP or anything else).

Also this could make the drain work as a feed reducing a stage.

I would like also the ability to feed on sleeping targets without bounty being added and of course without that screaming and bloody animation just like Skyrim.

This would make valid vamp 4 being target for justice system because this make entirely your choice to keep stage 4.

MornaBaine · February 2015

Ajantear wrote: »

Anything that allows the Vampire player to mask there appearance would be welcome. I'm tired of walking into the bank and 3/4 of the people there you would stab on sight if there was even the slightest semblance of (fantasy) realism, RP or immersion in this game.

A simple auto charm ability as soon as you entered a populated area would work.

I also think WW transformation should not be voluntary. I'm not really sure if that would work from a game play point of view but in the parallel world were some people actually RP it would be great.

I have 2 WW characters and it is quite a nice, if short lived, berserker mode. I would like to try Vampire on another character but am put off by the shear number of them around already.

Ultimately I think the whole system for become them needs to be changed. Remove the time of the month spawns. Remove the ability for players to infect. Make 'any' hit from 'any' npc Vampire or Werewolf have a chance to infect, but make it really tiny EG 1:100000.

EDIT: actually that's a dumb method. It would just have people stood for hours taking hits off low level WWs and Vamps. The devs should come up with a number of obscure conditions that have to be met that are never publicised so people cannot easily work it out and 'go for it' like they do now. It should be both rare and unexpected.

I want people to be able to play vampires and werewolves if they want to. Making them more challenging to play, requiring more player attention, will probably go a long way towards reducing their overall numbers. Giving vampires the ability to hide their condition, as it is clearly indicated in the vampire quest by Lamae herself that we should be able to, would certainly reduce the number of obvious vampires as well. This would at least help with immersion as you don't have to figure out why your character is standing in a bank full of what look like zombies without freaking out.

Beerbill · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

I'll say this about Vampires . The need to feed every 30 minutes to keep stage one is too short . Vampires would wipe out Cyrodiil's population in a month in order to stay stage 1 . I also don't understand how stage 4 has become the preferred state in PVP . Every lore I've read , vampires are strongest after feeding .

Well, they technically are stronger after feeding, cause they have more health regen, but the ultimate is more expensive, so people prefer to have a cheaper ultimate and therefor sacificing most of their health regen. And the constant feeding to stay stage 1 is just not possible in cyrodiil, where you can easily spend an hour defending a keep. So this really needs to be adjusted.

Not true in my case I don't care about the reduction, I just don't find time between the fights to keep feeding.

The health reduction is to much punitive when you are a user of templar radiance aura (forgot the name :P )

Lokryn · February 2015

Since my thread didn't get much attention, I'll paste my ideas here.

So, I think I'm not alone in feeling that vampires need some love in the RP or gameplay department. I'm not concerned about PVE/PVP balance. I'll leave that to the math wizards. My ideas/suggestions are only aimed at making the experience as a vampire more immersive. Currently, there is not enough in the game to make me feel like I'm playing a vampire character. If even one of these suggestions is added into the game, I would be happy. My ideas come from various sources which might include other games (including Elder Scrolls), movies, etc. Some of these ideas may be dumb and will probably fall on deaf ears but I'm throwing them out there anyway. Also, I realize that equal attention would need to be done for both Werewolves and non-werewolf/vampire characters.

1. Vampire home base/Sanctuary - I'm thinking adding a home base similar to Castle Volkihar in Dawnguard would be a great place for players to call home. ZOS could make it instanced or not, whatever makes better sense. Having a home base would have the following features:

- NPC Vendor Items:
Vampire Sanctuary (give it whatever name you want) - This is an item that has a 30 minute cooldown and causes the vampire to disperse into a cloud of bats and reappear at the home base. This would be similar to the mod "Bat Travel Vampire Power" mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/21689/?
Mortal's Mask (Costume or Item with On Use) - This item will give the vampire the ability to look like their mortal selves for X duration. It cannot be cast in Cyrodill and once the player goes into combat, the effect is dispelled and given a 15 minute cooldown.
Blood Potions - As the name suggests, this is bottled food for the vampire. It allows them to transition to a previous stage. However, it is very expensive and has a X minute cooldown.

- Vampire Cattle - The home base would have caged victims where you feed freely. Killing the cattle would anger the npc vampires there though.

- Daily Quest - As an aspiring vampire, you may feel the need to do work for the coven. Daily quests can reward you with experience and gold or blood potions. The quest can be just about anything from killing a specific NPC (thank you Justice System) to charming a mortal politician.

- Coffins - More on this later

2. Safefall - Reduces fall damage by X% (whatever is reasonable). This is pretty self explanatory. Most movies and games have vampires that can fall from great distances without getting hurt. This buff would need to be modest to avoid exploits in Cyrodill I think.

3. Give Vampire fangs. - For some reason, ZOS failed to give vampires their most iconic feature. It would be cool if they increased in size as you move from stage to stage. Also, give us a bite animation please. The current animation is understandable considering this is a MMO but please investigate giving a true blood sucking animation.

4. Vampire Coffins - No matter what genre you look at, vampires have an unusual need to sleep in coffins. Whatever the reason, I think giving vampires the ability to sleep in coffins would be great. There are many coffins throughout the world. Create an animation to allow the vampire to get inside and lay down for 30 seconds to get a food-like buff (call it something vampirish) that scales with your level. Sleeping in a coffin found in the world would give green level food buff. Sleeping in a coffin at your home base/sanctuary would give blue level food buff. You cannot have a food buff and coffin buff at the same time.

5. Increase the time between stages and then allow vampires to be attackable by guards at stage 4. Now I know this is controversial but the Mortal's Mask item/power should alleviate any worries with this.

6. New Abilities. So this is where the balance issue is most relevant. Since I'm not a balance guru, I'll just give some examples of abilities that I think would be cool but would need to make sense from a balance standpoint. This is in addition to what ZOS has already created but since there are only 5 slots, something would have to go.
Vampire's Sight - Gives the vampire Night Vision for X seconds.
Detect Life - This ability allows you to see the blood signature of nearby living things, even through walls for X seconds.
Bat Teleport - Allows the vampire to turn into a cloud of bats and instantly teleport X yards. This is just like the Bats ability of the Vampire Lord in Skyrim
Raise Dead - Allows the vampire to raise a recently killed NPC (or even player!) to fight for him for X seconds. If it's a player, the chosen player would still be able to rez like normal. The spell just copies the look of the dead player, gives them a undead skin and walk animation. Talk about humiliation (fun!).
Blur- Allows the vampire to run at incredible speed (something high like 200%) for 2 seconds (something really short). Based on the fact that vampires can move so fast, they are like a blur in many games and movies.
Vampire Claw Attack - this ability causes the vampire to claw at the target and cause them to receive increased damage for X seconds. The player would literally grow black claws and swipe at the target regardless of what weapon they are currently using.
Vampire Regeneration - At night, health regeneration would return to stage 1 levels regardless of what stage they are currently at. This falls in line with the "stronger at night" theme the player's bloodline follows.
Summon Gargoyle - Pretty self explanatory. Balance it like Sorcerer pets.

7. Vampire's Seduction - Causes the NPC to ignore the vampire while being fed on. It has a 5 minute cooldown. This would allow the vampire to feed on NPCs in town without being attacked by the guards. This is, of course, only if there is not a second witness. This is where it can be really fun following or finding a NPC and feeding on them without alerting the authorities. But if you're caught feeding on a charmed NPC, you still get the highest heat and will be accosted by the Guards. Also, feeding on an NPC removes your Mortal's Mask spell.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Lokryn wrote: »

Since my thread didn't get much attention, I'll paste my ideas here.

So, I think I'm not alone in feeling that vampires need some love in the RP or gameplay department. I'm not concerned about PVE/PVP balance. I'll leave that to the math wizards. My ideas/suggestions are only aimed at making the experience as a vampire more immersive. Currently, there is not enough in the game to make me feel like I'm playing a vampire character. If even one of these suggestions is added into the game, I would be happy. My ideas come from various sources which might include other games (including Elder Scrolls), movies, etc. Some of these ideas may be dumb and will probably fall on deaf ears but I'm throwing them out there anyway. Also, I realize that equal attention would need to be done for both Werewolves and non-werewolf/vampire characters.

1. Vampire home base/Sanctuary - I'm thinking adding a home base similar to Castle Volkihar in Dawnguard would be a great place for players to call home. ZOS could make it instanced or not, whatever makes better sense. Having a home base would have the following features:

- NPC Vendor Items:
Vampire Sanctuary (give it whatever name you want) - This is an item that has a 30 minute cooldown and causes the vampire to disperse into a cloud of bats and reappear at the home base. This would be similar to the mod "Bat Travel Vampire Power" mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/21689/?
Mortal's Mask (Costume or Item with On Use) - This item will give the vampire the ability to look like their mortal selves for X duration. It cannot be cast in Cyrodill and once the player goes into combat, the effect is dispelled and given a 15 minute cooldown.
Blood Potions - As the name suggests, this is bottled food for the vampire. It allows them to transition to a previous stage. However, it is very expensive and has a X minute cooldown.

- Vampire Cattle - The home base would have caged victims where you feed freely. Killing the cattle would anger the npc vampires there though.

- Daily Quest - As an aspiring vampire, you may feel the need to do work for the coven. Daily quests can reward you with experience and gold or blood potions. The quest can be just about anything from killing a specific NPC (thank you Justice System) to charming a mortal politician.

- Coffins - More on this later

2. Safefall - Reduces fall damage by X% (whatever is reasonable). This is pretty self explanatory. Most movies and games have vampires that can fall from great distances without getting hurt. This buff would need to be modest to avoid exploits in Cyrodill I think.

3. Give Vampire fangs. - For some reason, ZOS failed to give vampires their most iconic feature. It would be cool if they increased in size as you move from stage to stage. Also, give us a bite animation please. The current animation is understandable considering this is a MMO but please investigate giving a true blood sucking animation.

4. Vampire Coffins - No matter what genre you look at, vampires have an unusual need to sleep in coffins. Whatever the reason, I think giving vampires the ability to sleep in coffins would be great. There are many coffins throughout the world. Create an animation to allow the vampire to get inside and lay down for 30 seconds to get a food-like buff (call it something vampirish) that scales with your level. Sleeping in a coffin found in the world would give green level food buff. Sleeping in a coffin at your home base/sanctuary would give blue level food buff. You cannot have a food buff and coffin buff at the same time.

5. Increase the time between stages and then allow vampires to be attackable by guards at stage 4. Now I know this is controversial but the Mortal's Mask item/power should alleviate any worries with this.

6. New Abilities. So this is where the balance issue is most relevant. Since I'm not a balance guru, I'll just give some examples of abilities that I think would be cool but would need to make sense from a balance standpoint. This is in addition to what ZOS has already created but since there are only 5 slots, something would have to go.
Vampire's Sight - Gives the vampire Night Vision for X seconds.
Detect Life - This ability allows you to see the blood signature of nearby living things, even through walls for X seconds.
Bat Teleport - Allows the vampire to turn into a cloud of bats and instantly teleport X yards. This is just like the Bats ability of the Vampire Lord in Skyrim
Raise Dead - Allows the vampire to raise a recently killed NPC (or even player!) to fight for him for X seconds. If it's a player, the chosen player would still be able to rez like normal. The spell just copies the look of the dead player, gives them a undead skin and walk animation. Talk about humiliation (fun!).
Blur- Allows the vampire to run at incredible speed (something high like 200%) for 2 seconds (something really short). Based on the fact that vampires can move so fast, they are like a blur in many games and movies.
Vampire Claw Attack - this ability causes the vampire to claw at the target and cause them to receive increased damage for X seconds. The player would literally grow black claws and swipe at the target regardless of what weapon they are currently using.
Vampire Regeneration - At night, health regeneration would return to stage 1 levels regardless of what stage they are currently at. This falls in line with the "stronger at night" theme the player's bloodline follows.
Summon Gargoyle - Pretty self explanatory. Balance it like Sorcerer pets.

7. Vampire's Seduction - Causes the NPC to ignore the vampire while being fed on. It has a 5 minute cooldown. This would allow the vampire to feed on NPCs in town without being attacked by the guards. This is, of course, only if there is not a second witness. This is where it can be really fun following or finding a NPC and feeding on them without alerting the authorities. But if you're caught feeding on a charmed NPC, you still get the highest heat and will be accosted by the Guards. Also, feeding on an NPC removes your Mortal's Mask spell.

Your ideas are good but things like vamp sight, detect life, bat teleport and raise dead are either not needed in an mmo or very unbalanced. This would only get us hate from everybody. I'm more for active attacks. The claw attack is good, but i would love to see this as a gap closer. You charge the target and claw or bite it, this would apply a bleeding effect or maybe a healing debuff. I would also like to see something like a punch that knocks enemies down or back. Classic vampires often have superhuman strength and can do such things.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO · February 2015

Just really want to through this out there, and this thread has way too much wall of text to read though all of it. And this issue has come up a lot since release. And I'm sure there are some great ideas.

But I really want to know if any EU players have done a test to see if the weakness to fire is being applied to damage shields of vamp players? I wanted to do this but we are on the EU character copy. Since they retooled damage shields to be critable/shiphonable/etc I have concerns the shields may now receive the additional 40% fire damage, with no reduction. Also, Silver bolts really shouldn't proc off a damage shield either, bother would be worth a test.

One major problem with Batswarm is that is not negateable, which is bad a in the current meta. I would actually have no problem if they mad batswarm less powerful but added 2 more utility abilities, a fear on non-undead/deadra/ww could be cool, but it might make ww seem less unique. and maybe just take out savage feeding and add another passive. The fire damage really is a pain in end-game, and even us Dunmmer are getting our fire resistance nerfed in 1.6.

But that is just my views, I think there are more pressing issues at this moment.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · February 2015

Vampires are far from lackluster. It is pretty much a requirement for group based PvP. I think the vampire changes or as you say nerfs were needed. At launch you were able to stack bat swarms giving you the ability to tank and kill whole raid groups. I feel like vampires are in a good spot ATM, if anything I feel like the fighters guild tree line needs to be beefed up as a legit way to counter not only one vampire but groups of vampires. I think ZoS felt the same way, hence the changes to the fighters guild line in 1.6. If you think bat swarm is lackluster you have never seen 3+ swarms dropped on one spot. What makes this stronger then other ultimate stacking is that the damage zone is mobile and unblock-able. Throw a CoA set on too of this and you get bats who also drop meteors

Elridge · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.

However,

Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.

Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.

Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)

The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.

When did this happen, source? All I remember was dying by sunlight in the single player games, unless you mean you are only taking the information from Skyrim.. which was the worst depiction of Vampires in any of the TES games in my opinion, where sunlight only nerfed you a bit. Sunlight is suppose to hurt like hell according to the lore I've seen.

Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire
Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay,_Chapter_II

Personally I think the system currently is fine... Vampires aren't OP anymore and they aren't bad either if you know how to build them. The game isn't full of them like it use to be, which was pretty gross to even look at.

"since we have to find someone that can bite us, or find npc vamps that bite us, then complete the vamp quest and live with our weaknesses and disadvantages AT ALL TIMES"

@MADshadowman You make it sound like WWs don't have to find someone to bite too, and the quest for WW was BY FAR harder then the Vampire quest, not sure now since I haven't done either one in months. Not to mention finding a bite for either is ridiculously easy, especially for social and friendly players.

I could understand the weaknesses and disadvantages at all times part, but you failed to mention you get the advantages at all times too? not to mention vampires don't have to sacrifice their ultimate just to use the abilities.

As for the skill bars... yea WW's only get that while in form as stated before, so comparing the sheer number of skills on a hotbar is unfair.. after building alot of ultimate, which again WW's have to sacrifice even having an ultimate to just become a werewolf... the only benefit out of form is the stamina regen buff. Because of that stamina regen I could see them making werewolves effected by poison at all times rather then just in form.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Elridge wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.

However,

Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.

Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.

Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)

The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.

When did this happen, source? All I remember was dying by sunlight in the single player games, unless you mean you are only taking the information from Skyrim.. which was the worst depiction of Vampires in any of the TES games in my opinion, where sunlight only nerfed you a bit. Sunlight is suppose to hurt like hell according to the lore I've seen.

Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire
Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay,_Chapter_II

Personally I think the system currently is fine... Vampires aren't OP anymore and they aren't bad either if you know how to build them. The game isn't full of them like it use to be, which was pretty gross to even look at.

"since we have to find someone that can bite us, or find npc vamps that bite us, then complete the vamp quest and live with our weaknesses and disadvantages AT ALL TIMES"

@MADshadowman You make it sound like WWs don't have to find someone to bite too, and the quest for WW was BY FAR harder then the Vampire quest, not sure now since I haven't done either one in months. Not to mention finding a bite for either is ridiculously easy, especially for social and friendly players.

I could understand the weaknesses and disadvantages at all times part, but you failed to mention you get the advantages at all times too? not to mention vampires don't have to sacrifice their ultimate just to use the abilities.

As for the skill bars... yea WW's only get that while in form as stated before, so comparing the sheer number of skills on a hotbar is unfair.. after building alot of ultimate, which again WW's have to sacrifice even having an ultimate to just become a werewolf... the only benefit out of form is the stamina regen buff. Because of that stamina regen I could see them making werewolves effected by poison at all times rather then just in form.

There is a link in this thread that brings you to the uesp.net article about the eso vampire strain.

Also: this is not about ww, so stop bringing these things up. For ww discussion please make your own thread. Thanks

CP5 · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Elridge wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.

However,

Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.

Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.

Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)

The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.

When did this happen, source? All I remember was dying by sunlight in the single player games, unless you mean you are only taking the information from Skyrim.. which was the worst depiction of Vampires in any of the TES games in my opinion, where sunlight only nerfed you a bit. Sunlight is suppose to hurt like hell according to the lore I've seen.

Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire
Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay,_Chapter_II

Personally I think the system currently is fine... Vampires aren't OP anymore and they aren't bad either if you know how to build them. The game isn't full of them like it use to be, which was pretty gross to even look at.

"since we have to find someone that can bite us, or find npc vamps that bite us, then complete the vamp quest and live with our weaknesses and disadvantages AT ALL TIMES"

@MADshadowman You make it sound like WWs don't have to find someone to bite too, and the quest for WW was BY FAR harder then the Vampire quest, not sure now since I haven't done either one in months. Not to mention finding a bite for either is ridiculously easy, especially for social and friendly players.

I could understand the weaknesses and disadvantages at all times part, but you failed to mention you get the advantages at all times too? not to mention vampires don't have to sacrifice their ultimate just to use the abilities.

As for the skill bars... yea WW's only get that while in form as stated before, so comparing the sheer number of skills on a hotbar is unfair.. after building alot of ultimate, which again WW's have to sacrifice even having an ultimate to just become a werewolf... the only benefit out of form is the stamina regen buff. Because of that stamina regen I could see them making werewolves effected by poison at all times rather then just in form.

There is a link in this thread that brings you to the uesp.net article about the eso vampire strain.

Also: this is not about ww, so stop bringing these things up. For ww discussion please make your own thread. Thanks

From the uesp : http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

"In terms of weaknesses, these vampires possess the common vulnerablities to fire, sunlight and silver, however, for some unknown reasons, sunlight does not directly harm them, only spells that harness the sun do. It is possible that the merging of coldharbour with tamriel has had an effect on the sun, allowing them to move around unharmed, despite this they still only come out at night. However, according to the author of Noxiphilic Sanguivora, a book about this variant of the disease, the reason why these vampires are not harmed by daylight is because of a deal with Hircine, which instead of a weakness during the day, they are instead strengthened by the night, however, the author describes as just a wild theory. Vampires of this bloodline cannot be turned by a single bite or a drain spell but the victim needs to be exsanguinated and then force fed the blood of the sire."

Also you did compare the ww and vampire skill line in the op so it is part of the thread .

MADshadowman · February 2015

CP5 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Elridge wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.

However,

Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.

Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.

Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)

The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.

When did this happen, source? All I remember was dying by sunlight in the single player games, unless you mean you are only taking the information from Skyrim.. which was the worst depiction of Vampires in any of the TES games in my opinion, where sunlight only nerfed you a bit. Sunlight is suppose to hurt like hell according to the lore I've seen.

Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire
Source:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay,_Chapter_II

Personally I think the system currently is fine... Vampires aren't OP anymore and they aren't bad either if you know how to build them. The game isn't full of them like it use to be, which was pretty gross to even look at.

"since we have to find someone that can bite us, or find npc vamps that bite us, then complete the vamp quest and live with our weaknesses and disadvantages AT ALL TIMES"

@MADshadowman You make it sound like WWs don't have to find someone to bite too, and the quest for WW was BY FAR harder then the Vampire quest, not sure now since I haven't done either one in months. Not to mention finding a bite for either is ridiculously easy, especially for social and friendly players.

I could understand the weaknesses and disadvantages at all times part, but you failed to mention you get the advantages at all times too? not to mention vampires don't have to sacrifice their ultimate just to use the abilities.

As for the skill bars... yea WW's only get that while in form as stated before, so comparing the sheer number of skills on a hotbar is unfair.. after building alot of ultimate, which again WW's have to sacrifice even having an ultimate to just become a werewolf... the only benefit out of form is the stamina regen buff. Because of that stamina regen I could see them making werewolves effected by poison at all times rather then just in form.

There is a link in this thread that brings you to the uesp.net article about the eso vampire strain.

Also: this is not about ww, so stop bringing these things up. For ww discussion please make your own thread. Thanks

From the uesp : http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire

"In terms of weaknesses, these vampires possess the common vulnerablities to fire, sunlight and silver, however, for some unknown reasons, sunlight does not directly harm them, only spells that harness the sun do. It is possible that the merging of coldharbour with tamriel has had an effect on the sun, allowing them to move around unharmed, despite this they still only come out at night. However, according to the author of Noxiphilic Sanguivora, a book about this variant of the disease, the reason why these vampires are not harmed by daylight is because of a deal with Hircine, which instead of a weakness during the day, they are instead strengthened by the night, however, the author describes as just a wild theory. Vampires of this bloodline cannot be turned by a single bite or a drain spell but the victim needs to be exsanguinated and then force fed the blood of the sire."

Also you did compare the ww and vampire skill line in the op so it is part of the thread .

This here:

Lamae's Bloodline
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind but like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris, as a consequence these Vampires do not burn or weaken in sun but rather become more powerful once night falls, they have their own set of abilities as well some shared by other bloodlines such as invisibility. A particular way of acquiring this strand of vampirism is through the Rite of the Scion, in which a mortal's blood is fully replaced by that of Lamae Bal herself. This rite turns mortals into Scions, a more powerful variety of vampires. It is also the only way for a soul shriven to be infected with this strand of vampirism. The exact name of this bloodline is unknown but they were extremely common in the second era and were not limited to any particular areas as they could be encountered nearly all over Tamriel. These vampires don't worship Molog Bal but rather they hate him, this is in accordance with Lamae's will, having new recruits profane symbols of Molag Bal is part of the rite of scion ritual.

And no, it's not part of the thread. i just explained how i came to this topic. that's it.

Aevric · February 2015

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

I agree it's not enough, they should sparkle.

... and be attacked by all city/town guards on sight.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

I have returned!!!!!!!!

What did I miss?

indigoblades · February 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The way I see it, the reason vamps have only a few skills and werewolves more is that vamps get to keep using their other skills, while for doggies its either human form + other skills -OR- werewolf form + werewolf skills. So they needed enough skills in WW form to fill their slots...
So, no reason for vamps to get skillbar-envy here...

Skill bar envy...I haz it. LOL I FEEL like there should be enough vamp skills to fully fill out your bar and they should really be worthwhile. As it is, I use NONE of my vamp skills in PvP because for my Sorc there are far too many better options. And for PvE all I typically use from the vamp line is Drain. So even what little we DID get...is pretty crappy. I WANT to be able to go all vamp, all the time. I DON'T want to play a Sorc with a couple "vampy" spells and a bad skin condition and weakness to fire. But that's what I have.

the only vamp skill i use is the fast sneak passive in pvp so i strive to stay in stage 1 & 2 if its convenient. There is absolutely no reason too be lose health regin at higher stages if u have no vampire skill on ur bars. For me even with 16 slots on my bars no vamp ability is worth it (running overload i have only 1 other ulty avaliable but 5 extra non weapon skills) ... negate, storm Atranach, power overload (for the 3rd skill bar), flawless dawnbreaker(dps boost) are all much stronger ultmates than bat swarm. In 1.6 they lowered the passives that help stam and mag regin so i am thinking of dropping vampirism. Maybe if they changed the feed timers too longer periods i might come back too it & i do like sneak bonus alot in PVP.

stumpy999 · February 2015

This is a vamp thread. So I'll ignore what nice people have said and put my idea forward.

Combat with PC vamps should carry a risk, albeit small, of infection. No wandering off to a shrine for a bite etc.

A PC vamp roughs you up and you may be infected.

phreatophile · February 2015

stumpy999 wrote: »

This is a vamp thread. So I'll ignore what nice people have said and put my idea forward.

Combat with PC vamps should carry a risk, albeit small, of infection. No wandering off to a shrine for a bite etc.

A PC vamp roughs you up and you may be infected.

That would be great.

Elridge · February 2015

@stumpy999 reminded me though, I don't like the idea of only being able to be bit in a certain area for the ritual. It would be nice to either 1) have more areas to choose from or 2) be able to do it anywhere

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

MornaBaine · February 2015

phreatophile wrote: »

stumpy999 wrote: »

This is a vamp thread. So I'll ignore what nice people have said and put my idea forward.

Combat with PC vamps should carry a risk, albeit small, of infection. No wandering off to a shrine for a bite etc.

A PC vamp roughs you up and you may be infected.

That would be great.

That would be totally awesome! Perhaps is should even come with a lingering debuff to force you to either go get cured or go to the Shrine to complete your transformation.