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Vampires - It's not enough
-
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Its not just fire dmg and health panelty, its also Fighters guild passives and skills, really hurts, like the slayer passive
That is correct and while i don't care much about fire damage (i have ways to negate that without fire resist jewelry), the fighters guild skills are very prominent in cyrodiil and make it possible to one-shot vampires.
This is something i'm not ok with. I'm against one-shotting in any form, vampire or not. Not having the chance to react to an attack is not ok with me.
People are always like "vamps are so OP, because they have bat swarm (that deals like 250-300 damage a second - not a big deal for an ultimate). They should be nerfed hard! But dare you nerf my ability to deal 3-4k damage a second to a vampire. This would be so unfair!"
Yeah, work on your attitude guys...1 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭It is playable, go stage 1 vampire and you can still do quests with stage 4. It's simple just avoid towns with patrolling guards because those are the only people that's going around knocking people or player enforcers.
If you want to pull the MMO card then SWG had the same mechanic with Jedi. Use a force ability in public and you become KoS by players, hunters, and NPCs so you had to be smart to blend in and not wave it around aka running around with stage 4 in broad daylight.
If it's so 'simple' to avoid, then why do it at all?
Because it's immersion. The same reason why we have first person combat. It's simple to do tps combat so why work on first person and it's animations. It's simple to take things out of baskets so why have justice system.
Everything has a work around but there's thing in there to fit the immersion of it being a tes game.
It's immersion *for you*. Why can't people understand that there is a community in an MMO. And what may seem simple on the one side isn't so simple on the other. You might say "well, don't choose it". How are we to make that choice for others? You might say "well, it's the same on my side. I don't want to see them in cities for immersion".
I'd posit this. On your side it's a concession to your seeing them every once in a while when you're in town.
On the other side, it's a continual struggle to use something that they put in the game to be played.
Perhaps a negative reaction, in some way *might* be appropriate. But KoS? You can't see how utterly unbalanced and limiting that is?
And then you pull the Elder Scrolls card.
Let me show you something:
That's with no mods, or anything to affect the game. Serana at the moot towards the end of the main storyline. In the council, in one of the seats.
If they made concessions in Skyrim, for God's sake... why can't we make concessions in an MMO?Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
Mikoto✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.
However,
Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.
Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.
Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)
The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.
This is so conveniently wrong. First, Eso is an Elder Scroll game, and by lore (read Vampires of the Iliac Bay, Chapter II, for instance; play Oblivion or Skyrim and you'll see) Vampires have weakness to sunlight. Anyone who plays ESO for RP reasons can't accept this.
Second, vampires have a basic mythology, a core of characteristics that precedes ESO, and must be followed (weakness to sunlight is one of them), otherwise you risk of misrepresent the essence of the vampire, ruin all RP and, honestly, being completly ridiculous. Let me give an example: Let's say I'll make a WW that looks like an WW, but have the ability to cling to walls and shoot mechanical webs (like spider man...). Serious, vampires that don't have weakness to sunlight (going against the TES lore...) sounds equally ridiculous.
Third, who established that? If even UESP says different.
It is a different strain of vampires and it is indeed covered by the lore.
From UESP:
Lamae's Bloodline
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind but like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris, as a consequence these Vampires do not burn or weaken in sun but rather become more powerful once night falls, they have their own set of abilities as well some shared by other bloodlines such as invisibility. A particular way of acquiring this strand of vampirism is through the Rite of the Scion, in which a mortal's blood is fully replaced by that of Lamae Bal herself. This rite turns mortals into Scions, a more powerful variety of vampires. It is also the only way for a soul shriven to be infected with this strand of vampirism. The exact name of this bloodline is unknown but they were extremely common in the second era and were not limited to any particular areas as they could be encountered nearly all over Tamriel. These vampires don't worship Molog Bal but rather they hate him, this is in accordance with Lamae's will, having new recruits profane symbols of Molag Bal is part of the rite of scion ritual.
You're welcome.
Pretty sure this "lore" was written BY ESO and the ability to have no daylight penalties just screams "because MMO." There will be those who argue that it is NOW lore but I will contend that it is BAD "lore." There ARE ways they could have handled the vampiric weakness to sunlight. First, day and night cycles should have been of equal time. Second, this weakness should simply not apply in dungeons or any indoor situation. Third, there could have been higher tier passives to mitigate the sun damage and potions available via the alchemy skill line that could have also removed the sun damage while active. This would have still made vampires completely playable during daylight but would have made them more challenging. And, dare I say?... it would have made them feel more like vampires.
I think another issue is that ESO doesn't have synched weather.It is playable, go stage 1 vampire and you can still do quests with stage 4. It's simple just avoid towns with patrolling guards because those are the only people that's going around knocking people or player enforcers.
If you want to pull the MMO card then SWG had the same mechanic with Jedi. Use a force ability in public and you become KoS by players, hunters, and NPCs so you had to be smart to blend in and not wave it around aka running around with stage 4 in broad daylight.
If it's so 'simple' to avoid, then why do it at all?
Because it's immersion. The same reason why we have first person combat. It's simple to do tps combat so why work on first person and it's animations. It's simple to take things out of baskets so why have justice system.
Everything has a work around but there's thing in there to fit the immersion of it being a tes game.
It's immersion *for you*. Why can't people understand that there is a community in an MMO. And what may seem simple on the one side isn't so simple on the other. You might say "well, don't choose it". How are we to make that choice for others? You might say "well, it's the same on my side. I don't want to see them in cities for immersion".
I'd posit this. On your side it's a concession to your seeing them every once in a while when you're in town.
On the other side, it's a continual struggle to use something that they put in the game to be played.
Perhaps a negative reaction, in some way *might* be appropriate. But KoS? You can't see how utterly unbalanced and limiting that is?
And then you pull the Elder Scrolls card.
Let me show you something:
That's with no mods, or anything to affect the game. Serana at the moot towards the end of the main storyline. In the council, in one of the seats.
If they made concessions in Skyrim, for God's sake... why can't we make concessions in an MMO?
Sorry to break it to you. Serana is a stage 1 vampire not a stage 4 or running around in vampire lord form. In fact her morality is against crime so she wouldn't even dare run around in stage 4.
If you want to pull Serana into this then -
Isran: "All right, you've heard what it has to say. Now tell me, is there any reason I shouldn't kill this bloodsucking fiend right now?"
Isran: "You hear me? Don't feel like a guest, because you're not. You're a resource. You're an asset. In the meantime, don't make me regret my sudden outburst of tolerance and generosity, because if you do, your friend here is going to pay for it."
Same game, no mods and NPC quotes. Serana is also hated it's only for plot was she not killed on the spot when she appeared.
And it's immersion period. Not for me not for you it's just how TES works and even though this is still a MMO they still have pages and books upon TES lore they need to adhere to while it has been bent for the 'MMO' players from time to time due to it not working -at all- this is something that both sides have been wanting because running around in stage 4 should be a risk not a privilege. Vampirism is all about risk vs reward the more you risk the more you get in return infact -most- of the game's quests aren't even inside the town they are scattered out in the wilds for the most part. Need a place to sell your gear? Rush down into one of the many outlaw dens if you're so keen on staying stage 4.Edited by Mikoto on February 9, 2015 2:38PM2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's understood that vampires, when they were KNOWN, were despised and feared in all the previous TES games. But because until they hit Stage 4 there's an element of doubt, they just got the odd comment. That's what I would like to see in ESO. The funy and sometimes cautiously hostile comments in Stage 3, KOS in Stage 4 because at that point it becomes impossible to hide what you are. But this would force ZOS to make some changes to the Stage Timers which they are apparently too lazy to do.Edited by MornaBaine on February 9, 2015 2:37PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »It's understood that vampires, when they were KNOWN, were despised and feared in all the previous TES games. But because until they hit Stage 4 there's an element of doubt, they just got the odd comment. That's what I would like to see in ESO. The funy and sometimes cautiously hostile comments in Stage 3, KOS in Stage 4 because at that point it becomes impossible to hide what you are. But this would force ZOS to make some changes to the Stage Timers which they are apparently too lazy to do.
Yeah but what about full helmets and masks? How does a guard know you're a vampire if he can't see your skin or your face?
i would find it immersion breaking if suddenly everyone knows what you are, even though they can't really see it.
And i think the duration of the stages should be way way way longer, not just half an hour or 2 hours. More like 1-2 ingame days. So it's not so easy to go back to stage 4 and get the cost reduction if you have fed on someone. this would force us to commit to stage 4 or the stages below and not be stage hoppers.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.
However,
Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.
Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.
Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)
The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.
This is so conveniently wrong. First, Eso is an Elder Scroll game, and by lore (read Vampires of the Iliac Bay, Chapter II, for instance; play Oblivion or Skyrim and you'll see) Vampires have weakness to sunlight. Anyone who plays ESO for RP reasons can't accept this.
Second, vampires have a basic mythology, a core of characteristics that precedes ESO, and must be followed (weakness to sunlight is one of them), otherwise you risk of misrepresent the essence of the vampire, ruin all RP and, honestly, being completly ridiculous. Let me give an example: Let's say I'll make a WW that looks like an WW, but have the ability to cling to walls and shoot mechanical webs (like spider man...). Serious, vampires that don't have weakness to sunlight (going against the TES lore...) sounds equally ridiculous.
Third, who established that? If even UESP says different.
It is a different strain of vampires and it is indeed covered by the lore.
From UESP:
Lamae's Bloodline
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind but like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris, as a consequence these Vampires do not burn or weaken in sun but rather become more powerful once night falls, they have their own set of abilities as well some shared by other bloodlines such as invisibility. A particular way of acquiring this strand of vampirism is through the Rite of the Scion, in which a mortal's blood is fully replaced by that of Lamae Bal herself. This rite turns mortals into Scions, a more powerful variety of vampires. It is also the only way for a soul shriven to be infected with this strand of vampirism. The exact name of this bloodline is unknown but they were extremely common in the second era and were not limited to any particular areas as they could be encountered nearly all over Tamriel. These vampires don't worship Molog Bal but rather they hate him, this is in accordance with Lamae's will, having new recruits profane symbols of Molag Bal is part of the rite of scion ritual.
You're welcome.
Pretty sure this "lore" was written BY ESO and the ability to have no daylight penalties just screams "because MMO." There will be those who argue that it is NOW lore but I will contend that it is BAD "lore." There ARE ways they could have handled the vampiric weakness to sunlight. First, day and night cycles should have been of equal time. Second, this weakness should simply not apply in dungeons or any indoor situation. Third, there could have been higher tier passives to mitigate the sun damage and potions available via the alchemy skill line that could have also removed the sun damage while active. This would have still made vampires completely playable during daylight but would have made them more challenging. And, dare I say?... it would have made them feel more like vampires.
I think another issue is that ESO doesn't have synched weather.It is playable, go stage 1 vampire and you can still do quests with stage 4. It's simple just avoid towns with patrolling guards because those are the only people that's going around knocking people or player enforcers.
If you want to pull the MMO card then SWG had the same mechanic with Jedi. Use a force ability in public and you become KoS by players, hunters, and NPCs so you had to be smart to blend in and not wave it around aka running around with stage 4 in broad daylight.
If it's so 'simple' to avoid, then why do it at all?
Because it's immersion. The same reason why we have first person combat. It's simple to do tps combat so why work on first person and it's animations. It's simple to take things out of baskets so why have justice system.
Everything has a work around but there's thing in there to fit the immersion of it being a tes game.
It's immersion *for you*. Why can't people understand that there is a community in an MMO. And what may seem simple on the one side isn't so simple on the other. You might say "well, don't choose it". How are we to make that choice for others? You might say "well, it's the same on my side. I don't want to see them in cities for immersion".
I'd posit this. On your side it's a concession to your seeing them every once in a while when you're in town.
On the other side, it's a continual struggle to use something that they put in the game to be played.
Perhaps a negative reaction, in some way *might* be appropriate. But KoS? You can't see how utterly unbalanced and limiting that is?
And then you pull the Elder Scrolls card.
Let me show you something:
That's with no mods, or anything to affect the game. Serana at the moot towards the end of the main storyline. In the council, in one of the seats.
If they made concessions in Skyrim, for God's sake... why can't we make concessions in an MMO?
Sorry to break it to you. Serana is a stage 1 vampire not a stage 4 or running around in vampire lord form. In fact her morality is against crime so she wouldn't even dare run around in stage 4.
Infact if you want to pull Serana into this then -
Isran: "All right, you've heard what it has to say. Now tell me, is there any reason I shouldn't kill this bloodsucking fiend right now?"
Isran: "You hear me? Don't feel like a guest, because you're not. You're a resource. You're an asset. In the meantime, don't make me regret my sudden outburst of tolerance and generosity, because if you do, your friend here is going to pay for it."
Same game, no mods and NPC quotes. Serana is also hated it's only for plot was she not killed on the spot when she appeared.
Which is also completely ridiculous.MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »I think Vampires should be UBER STRONG.
However,
Werewolves only should appear at night at a full bloodmoon, uncontrolled. Also they should be able to attack friendlies.
Vampires should die at a ray of sunlight.
Note: I am vamp myself (unwillingly, as i need to be one to kill one due to stacking speed buffs. not anymore, but i prefer my armor above the nightsomething armor so i need to be vamp)
The ESO vamps are immune to sunlight by lore, and we established that many times now.
This is so conveniently wrong. First, Eso is an Elder Scroll game, and by lore (read Vampires of the Iliac Bay, Chapter II, for instance; play Oblivion or Skyrim and you'll see) Vampires have weakness to sunlight. Anyone who plays ESO for RP reasons can't accept this.
Second, vampires have a basic mythology, a core of characteristics that precedes ESO, and must be followed (weakness to sunlight is one of them), otherwise you risk of misrepresent the essence of the vampire, ruin all RP and, honestly, being completly ridiculous. Let me give an example: Let's say I'll make a WW that looks like an WW, but have the ability to cling to walls and shoot mechanical webs (like spider man...). Serious, vampires that don't have weakness to sunlight (going against the TES lore...) sounds equally ridiculous.
Third, who established that? If even UESP says different.
It is a different strain of vampires and it is indeed covered by the lore.
From UESP:
Lamae's Bloodline
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind but like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris, as a consequence these Vampires do not burn or weaken in sun but rather become more powerful once night falls, they have their own set of abilities as well some shared by other bloodlines such as invisibility. A particular way of acquiring this strand of vampirism is through the Rite of the Scion, in which a mortal's blood is fully replaced by that of Lamae Bal herself. This rite turns mortals into Scions, a more powerful variety of vampires. It is also the only way for a soul shriven to be infected with this strand of vampirism. The exact name of this bloodline is unknown but they were extremely common in the second era and were not limited to any particular areas as they could be encountered nearly all over Tamriel. These vampires don't worship Molog Bal but rather they hate him, this is in accordance with Lamae's will, having new recruits profane symbols of Molag Bal is part of the rite of scion ritual.
You're welcome.
Pretty sure this "lore" was written BY ESO and the ability to have no daylight penalties just screams "because MMO." There will be those who argue that it is NOW lore but I will contend that it is BAD "lore." There ARE ways they could have handled the vampiric weakness to sunlight. First, day and night cycles should have been of equal time. Second, this weakness should simply not apply in dungeons or any indoor situation. Third, there could have been higher tier passives to mitigate the sun damage and potions available via the alchemy skill line that could have also removed the sun damage while active. This would have still made vampires completely playable during daylight but would have made them more challenging. And, dare I say?... it would have made them feel more like vampires.
I think another issue is that ESO doesn't have synched weather.It is playable, go stage 1 vampire and you can still do quests with stage 4. It's simple just avoid towns with patrolling guards because those are the only people that's going around knocking people or player enforcers.
If you want to pull the MMO card then SWG had the same mechanic with Jedi. Use a force ability in public and you become KoS by players, hunters, and NPCs so you had to be smart to blend in and not wave it around aka running around with stage 4 in broad daylight.
If it's so 'simple' to avoid, then why do it at all?
Because it's immersion. The same reason why we have first person combat. It's simple to do tps combat so why work on first person and it's animations. It's simple to take things out of baskets so why have justice system.
Everything has a work around but there's thing in there to fit the immersion of it being a tes game.
It's immersion *for you*. Why can't people understand that there is a community in an MMO. And what may seem simple on the one side isn't so simple on the other. You might say "well, don't choose it". How are we to make that choice for others? You might say "well, it's the same on my side. I don't want to see them in cities for immersion".
I'd posit this. On your side it's a concession to your seeing them every once in a while when you're in town.
On the other side, it's a continual struggle to use something that they put in the game to be played.
Perhaps a negative reaction, in some way *might* be appropriate. But KoS? You can't see how utterly unbalanced and limiting that is?
And then you pull the Elder Scrolls card.
Let me show you something:
That's with no mods, or anything to affect the game. Serana at the moot towards the end of the main storyline. In the council, in one of the seats.
If they made concessions in Skyrim, for God's sake... why can't we make concessions in an MMO?
Sorry to break it to you. Serana is a stage 1 vampire not a stage 4 or running around in vampire lord form. In fact her morality is against crime so she wouldn't even dare run around in stage 4.
Infact if you want to pull Serana into this then -
Isran: "All right, you've heard what it has to say. Now tell me, is there any reason I shouldn't kill this bloodsucking fiend right now?"
Isran: "You hear me? Don't feel like a guest, because you're not. You're a resource. You're an asset. In the meantime, don't make me regret my sudden outburst of tolerance and generosity, because if you do, your friend here is going to pay for it."
Same game, no mods and NPC quotes. Serana is also hated it's only for plot was she not killed on the spot when she appeared.
Which is also completely ridiculous.MADshadowman wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »It's understood that vampires, when they were KNOWN, were despised and feared in all the previous TES games. But because until they hit Stage 4 there's an element of doubt, they just got the odd comment. That's what I would like to see in ESO. The funy and sometimes cautiously hostile comments in Stage 3, KOS in Stage 4 because at that point it becomes impossible to hide what you are. But this would force ZOS to make some changes to the Stage Timers which they are apparently too lazy to do.
Yeah but what about full helmets and masks? How does a guard know you're a vampire if he can't see your skin or your face?
i would find it immersion breaking if suddenly everyone knows what you are, even though they can't really see it.
And i think the duration of the stages should be way way way longer, not just half an hour or 2 hours. More like 1-2 ingame days. So it's not so easy to go back to stage 4 and get the cost reduction if you have fed on someone. this would force us to commit to stage 4 or the stages below and not be stage hoppers.
I think we kind of SHOULD be Stage hoppers. Yes, due to game mechanics. I understand the PvPers wanting to stay in Stage 4. If we switch out the Stage 1 and Stage 3 timers it's easy for the PvP crowd to feed once, quickly go do their banking and repairing, and get back toCyrodiil in their preferred Stage. I really don't have a problem with that as it relates to the whole idea of "play as you want." I, on the other hand, who happen to be a roleplayer who would KILL to stay in Stage 1 longer than 20 minutes (because, once you've fed and returned to wherever your RP session is you're lucky if you have 20 minutes in Stage 1 at that point) would be perfectly delighted with such a change as well. It puts minimal inconvenience on the PvP crowd while giving the Rp crowd something they've been begging for since launch. Win-win.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭Regarding the lore, the half-fast (lol) version of Elder Scrolls vampirism we got is lore because it appears in game, doesn't mean it isn't a terrible implementation.
I'm all for a few more downsides. Sun damage: no. Major weakness in sunlight would work. Stage 4 absolutely should be attacked by guards, that sure is lore.
I take a pretty dim view of the "because it's an mmo" arguments.
The problem is not feeling like a Vampire. The downsides are a big part of feeling like a Vampire.1 -
Syldayan✭✭✭just made a blood potion with alchemy and some spécial ingredient ... thanks zos for listening the rp players !!!0 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭
So, someone lives up to your 'lore' requirement, and because it doesn't jive with what you want it to say you dismiss it?MornaBaine wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »It is a different strain of vampires and it is indeed covered by the lore.
From UESP:
Lamae's Bloodline
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind but like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris, as a consequence these Vampires do not burn or weaken in sun but rather become more powerful once night falls, they have their own set of abilities as well some shared by other bloodlines such as invisibility. A particular way of acquiring this strand of vampirism is through the Rite of the Scion, in which a mortal's blood is fully replaced by that of Lamae Bal herself. This rite turns mortals into Scions, a more powerful variety of vampires. It is also the only way for a soul shriven to be infected with this strand of vampirism. The exact name of this bloodline is unknown but they were extremely common in the second era and were not limited to any particular areas as they could be encountered nearly all over Tamriel. These vampires don't worship Molog Bal but rather they hate him, this is in accordance with Lamae's will, having new recruits profane symbols of Molag Bal is part of the rite of scion ritual.
You're welcome.
Pretty sure this "lore" was written BY ESO and the ability to have no daylight penalties just screams "because MMO." There will be those who argue that it is NOW lore but I will contend that it is BAD "lore." There ARE ways they could have handled the vampiric weakness to sunlight. First, day and night cycles should have been of equal time. Second, this weakness should simply not apply in dungeons or any indoor situation. Third, there could have been higher tier passives to mitigate the sun damage and potions available via the alchemy skill line that could have also removed the sun damage while active. This would have still made vampires completely playable during daylight but would have made them more challenging. And, dare I say?... it would have made them feel more like vampires.Sorry to break it to you. Serana is a stage 1 vampire not a stage 4 or running around in vampire lord form. In fact her morality is against crime so she wouldn't even dare run around in stage 4.
If you want to pull Serana into this then -
Isran: "All right, you've heard what it has to say. Now tell me, is there any reason I shouldn't kill this bloodsucking fiend right now?"
Isran: "You hear me? Don't feel like a guest, because you're not. You're a resource. You're an asset. In the meantime, don't make me regret my sudden outburst of tolerance and generosity, because if you do, your friend here is going to pay for it."
Same game, no mods and NPC quotes. Serana is also hated it's only for plot was she not killed on the spot when she appeared.
And it's immersion period. Not for me not for you it's just how TES works and even though this is still a MMO they still have pages and books upon TES lore they need to adhere to while it has been bent for the 'MMO' players from time to time due to it not working -at all- this is something that both sides have been wanting because running around in stage 4 should be a risk not a privilege. Vampirism is all about risk vs reward the more you risk the more you get in return infact -most- of the game's quests aren't even inside the town they are scattered out in the wilds for the most part. Need a place to sell your gear? Rush down into one of the many outlaw dens if you're so keen on staying stage 4.
Did you even read what you wrote? And know who Isran is?
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Isran
How do you even compare any of Isran's statements with the status quo?
And do you even know what you're saying in regards to stages? Vampire Lord isn't a stage, it's a different form. Which is showing that they've already gone off the rails. Fact of the matter is that the lore and what they choose is their choice, as the lore is theirs. They don't *have* to do anything.Edited by wraith808 on February 9, 2015 4:00PMQuasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Emencie✭✭✭✭
No fighter's guild ability can one shot any competent, equal level, vampire.MADshadowman wrote: »Its not just fire dmg and health panelty, its also Fighters guild passives and skills, really hurts, like the slayer passive
That is correct and while i don't care much about fire damage (i have ways to negate that without fire resist jewelry), the fighters guild skills are very prominent in cyrodiil and make it possible to one-shot vampires.
This is something i'm not ok with. I'm against one-shotting in any form, vampire or not. Not having the chance to react to an attack is not ok with me.
People are always like "vamps are so OP, because they have bat swarm (that deals like 250-300 damage a second - not a big deal for an ultimate). They should be nerfed hard! But dare you nerf my ability to deal 3-4k damage a second to a vampire. This would be so unfair!"
Yeah, work on your attitude guys...
I have no idea where you are getting this.
Now people can kill vampires without the vampire being able to fight back, but how is that a vampire problem? head over to the alliance war section and you will find no shortage of people complaining about just that, no matter if they are vampire or not.
Though this begs the question. If Vampires require players to slot specific skills to deal with them isn't that already too powerful? Fighter's guild skills are prominent in cyrodiil because vampires are very prominent in cyrodiil! Vampires have a distinct advantage in PvP and their drawback (fire) is no big deal for anyone that knows what they are doing. So many of us out there are vampires. Heck! As a DK vampire myself I still slot abilities specifically for dealing with other vampires!
Sure they are not insane like they were at launch, but I still see absolutely no reason for every player not to be a vampire. Heck even those fighter's guild skills are no big deal on their own. They need to be in a good build and used by a good player to give me trouble.0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »I propose a new title for this thread:
"Vampires - It will never be enough, unless ESO becomes Twilight Online".
Declined.
I don't know what you guys have with the twilight stuff. i've never seen any of these movies. But i know enough to say that these are no vampires. I like the classic vampire, the seducer, a very strong and mighty creature that also has weaknesses. The balance between strength and weakness is what makes them interesting.
I wanna feel as a vampire, and we need more vampy skills for that. This will change nothing about the balance, we're talking about just regular abilities, nothing crazy. And with more skills to choose from, there will be less bat swarming. It's just the only ability now that works.
When I think of vampire, I think of nosferatu myself. I have no problem with vampires getting more abilities, or wolves for that matter, as long as other options are developed for other players. Vampire Lord form for instance seems cool enough to me. At the same time I think Fighters Guild abilities should actually counter vampires. I think Silver Leash should reel enemies in whether or not they are daedra... its a harpoon more or less. Dawnbreaker should actually feel like an ultimate intended to hammer daedra/vampires. Circle of Protection (particularly the undead morph) should cause a vampire to light up in fire if he stands in that circle... and it should be extremely harmful. My main concern is mostly that so far ZoS has been terrible about balancing Vampires and Werewolves so far. I have a v14 vampire, a v12 vampire, and a mid 30's vampire, so I'm not against what you're saying in spirit. The primary concern I have is the balance is completely out of whack.
I'd personally rather see them release Spellcrafting to the game first, before messing with werewolves and vampires, and I think by doing so they might be able to get more creative with those skill lines as well. Spellcrafting could help mitigate a lot of the balance issues (or it could make them worse) but it could also open the system to be more creative in all of the current skill lines. That's my thought anyway.
With regard to the spirit of what is wanted by the original OP, it might be fun if you could summon a swarm of bats to harass an enemy player, or even the telekinesis/drain abilities from Skyrim. Like I said though, I'd want spellcrafting out, so the regular player base would have access to similar abilities but with different 'skins'. If I understand what you want, its purely about style, and style I don't have a problem with.
US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »I propose a new title for this thread:
"Vampires - It will never be enough, unless ESO becomes Twilight Online".
Declined.
I don't know what you guys have with the twilight stuff. i've never seen any of these movies. But i know enough to say that these are no vampires. I like the classic vampire, the seducer, a very strong and mighty creature that also has weaknesses. The balance between strength and weakness is what makes them interesting.
I wanna feel as a vampire, and we need more vampy skills for that. This will change nothing about the balance, we're talking about just regular abilities, nothing crazy. And with more skills to choose from, there will be less bat swarming. It's just the only ability now that works.
When I think of vampire, I think of nosferatu myself. I have no problem with vampires getting more abilities, or wolves for that matter, as long as other options are developed for other players. Vampire Lord form for instance seems cool enough to me. At the same time I think Fighters Guild abilities should actually counter vampires. I think Silver Leash should reel enemies in whether or not they are daedra... its a harpoon more or less. Dawnbreaker should actually feel like an ultimate intended to hammer daedra/vampires. Circle of Protection (particularly the undead morph) should cause a vampire to light up in fire if he stands in that circle... and it should be extremely harmful. My main concern is mostly that so far ZoS has been terrible about balancing Vampires and Werewolves so far. I have a v14 vampire, a v12 vampire, and a mid 30's vampire, so I'm not against what you're saying in spirit. The primary concern I have is the balance is completely out of whack.
I'd personally rather see them release Spellcrafting to the game first, before messing with werewolves and vampires, and I think by doing so they might be able to get more creative with those skill lines as well. Spellcrafting could help mitigate a lot of the balance issues (or it could make them worse) but it could also open the system to be more creative in all of the current skill lines. That's my thought anyway.
With regard to the spirit of what is wanted by the original OP, it might be fun if you could summon a swarm of bats to harass an enemy player, or even the telekinesis/drain abilities from Skyrim. Like I said though, I'd want spellcrafting out, so the regular player base would have access to similar abilities but with different 'skins'. If I understand what you want, its purely about style, and style I don't have a problem with.
All fighters guild abilities affect vampires.
I don't see balancing issues. we're talking about skills that do what other skills do, just in a vampy style. It doesn't matter if i use a gap closer from 1h/shield, 2h, from the templar skill line or from the new vampire abilities. it's just one gap closer of many others. There will be no problem with balancing, but you will feel more as a vampire when you can use such a skill instead of the other ones.
It's really not about making vamps powerful, i just want active abilities for a vampire play style. right now we have a bunch of passives and 2 of the 3 active abilites are broken or useless.0 -
Mikoto✭✭✭Basically what I'm getting is that the vamp players just want cosmetic differences for example dk vamp instead of a fire chain it'll be a blood whip - same effect but different skin.
Or you simply want more skills.
Am I getting it?Edited by Mikoto on February 10, 2015 5:50AM0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »LOL @ OP
My main is a Vampire NB. I went vampire for the passive stealth movement speed increase so I could take advantage of other armor sets. It works for me.
Vampires are strong enough to be the most used character path in PvP. So much so Camo/Evil Hunter and/or Silver bolts are a no brainer for most PvP builds. Despite these hard hitting anti-vampire abilities the pros far outweigh the cons.
If you're having trouble "feeling" like a vampire I don't know what to tell you. The abilities they have WORK even in their reduced states.
"Feeling" as though your vampire is actually a vampire is not a matter of being able to "own" in PvP. Far from it. Things that would make a vampire seem more LIKE a vampire would be choices in cosmetic options (because most of the time my vampire looks far more like a zombie than a vampire), options in the skill line that may not work any differently than some other skills already available but designed with a vampire aesthetic in mind, like having a giant bat for a pet instead of a Clannfear, having a fear ability and a stun/charm ability, and doing away with the ridiculous feeding animation and giving vampires their fangs. All of these skills would have to replace other class skills which would leave it up to players just how "vampy" they want their vamp to be. You know...something about, "Play as you want..."
Shrug. I'm not going into another conversation on how vampires look. It's a stylistic choice ZoS made and I'm fine with it. If they change it I'll probably be fine with that too. I was speaking to "abilities" and not aesthetics.
As for "play how you want." That really is totally up to the context upon which ZoS intended the statement. I'm going to stretch here and assume they meant "play as you want" within the limitations and design parameters of their game. Your interpretation of their statement does not concern me.0 -
Volla✭✭✭At least you don't have to use a "vampire form" that takes up an ultimate slot, costs a boatload of ultimate to use, only lasts for a few seconds, and prevents you from using any class, weapon, armor, guild, or other skills while active.
Werewolves are in need of major improvements imo.
and stun your self when you transforming.. and if you press 2 times you cancel the transformation... pretty awesome ww ***...2 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Vampire discussion. Stay on the topic or get flagged. Thank you.Edited by MADshadowman on February 10, 2015 1:51PM3
-
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toggleable vampire, hilarious XD
Even todays *** vampire stuff dont have vampire on/off switch.
I do play one and find it entertaining in PVE but i would hope for at least bit of disadvantage for playing at sunshine... Id rather have them more like traditional vampires of old than TES twisted version where things that starving vampire is strong makes no sense..
Other thing would be that Mist form feels very useless.. Vampires should also have some sort of reliable crowd control.. Especially being light armored Nighblade vampire, it is not fun to have all the enemies slashing me with their massive swords, nightblades fear/mass hysteria is... Well most people seem fearless, it fails almost all the time. Vampires should have more reliable charm/fear ability of their own that fits their bio.
Edited by Tapio75 on February 10, 2015 2:06PM>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<1 -
Minack✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .
http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.1 -
Father✭✭✭I got ganked for 15k Lethal arrow and 7k camo hunter, I died in 1 sec.
so Vampire is at a huge disadvantage yes,,people who plan to PVP cure your vampirisim ASAP.
you can have sneak speed while using blur morph double take 40% for 4 sec? I forgot which is enough to get u fast behind a target.
I really love dark stalker. but can't help it..it feels like being vampire is like being gimped in pvp.1 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭minack1preub18_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.
Bat swarm has been nerfed 2 times already. 25% less damage, 30% less healing. It's not nearly the strongest ultimate and so easy to avoid.
If something needs a nerf, then it's your attitude, sir.2 -
Jaerlach✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »minack1preub18_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.
Bat swarm has been nerfed 2 times already. 25% less damage, 30% less healing. It's not nearly the strongest ultimate and so easy to avoid.
If something needs a nerf, then it's your attitude, sir.
In an objective way, moving away from the vampire is certainly a simple tactic to avoid batswarm. However, relative to other powerful ultimates, it is actually not easy to avoid.
Other powerful AOE ultimates include Solar Disturbance, Standard of Might, and Veil of Blades. All of these are stationary and cannot move to follow you when you attempt to move out of them like a batswarm can. Further, all of these are ground targetted effects and can be negated, and batswarm cannot.
I am a non-vampire DK and I will tell you every time, every time I use standard of might in PVP I wish I was casting devouring swarm. it would be 40 ult cheaper, give me the same resource return, give me ongoing resource return while its active, and not vanish instantly in a negate or because everyone rolled away from it and the fight moved. Batswarm comes with you as you chase down your target.
The concerns of vampires who don't PVP are real, but lets not pretend that batswarm isnt the premiere aoe ultimate in the current negate metagame in PVP. It absolutely is, due to its immunity to Absorption Field.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
DC - NA first SO speed run & first Hardmode Speedrun
NA Record Vet DSA: 115191 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »minack1preub18_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.
Bat swarm has been nerfed 2 times already. 25% less damage, 30% less healing. It's not nearly the strongest ultimate and so easy to avoid.
If something needs a nerf, then it's your attitude, sir.
In an objective way, moving away from the vampire is certainly a simple tactic to avoid batswarm. However, relative to other powerful ultimates, it is actually not easy to avoid.
Other powerful AOE ultimates include Solar Disturbance, Standard of Might, and Veil of Blades. All of these are stationary and cannot move to follow you when you attempt to move out of them like a batswarm can. Further, all of these are ground targetted effects and can be negated, and batswarm cannot.
I am a non-vampire DK and I will tell you every time, every time I use standard of might in PVP I wish I was casting devouring swarm. it would be 40 ult cheaper, give me the same resource return, give me ongoing resource return while its active, and not vanish instantly in a negate or because everyone rolled away from it and the fight moved. Batswarm comes with you as you chase down your target.
The concerns of vampires who don't PVP are real, but lets not pretend that batswarm isnt the premiere aoe ultimate in the current negate metagame in PVP. It absolutely is, due to its immunity to Absorption Field.
I never said it wasn't a good ultimate. i like it, but people generally exaggerate the strength of it. i personally haven't died very often in a bat swarm, only if a giant zerg rushes in, but even without bat swarm there is no way of surviving 20 aoe attacks per second. and when i use bat swarm on somebody without doing much additional damage and staying close to them, they're not very impressed. It's good, but it's not really stronger then other ultimates and if someone isn't capable of casting a shield or a self heal, then he probably deserves to die in this situation. That's natural selection.1 -
Jaerlach✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »minack1preub18_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.
Bat swarm has been nerfed 2 times already. 25% less damage, 30% less healing. It's not nearly the strongest ultimate and so easy to avoid.
If something needs a nerf, then it's your attitude, sir.
In an objective way, moving away from the vampire is certainly a simple tactic to avoid batswarm. However, relative to other powerful ultimates, it is actually not easy to avoid.
Other powerful AOE ultimates include Solar Disturbance, Standard of Might, and Veil of Blades. All of these are stationary and cannot move to follow you when you attempt to move out of them like a batswarm can. Further, all of these are ground targetted effects and can be negated, and batswarm cannot.
I am a non-vampire DK and I will tell you every time, every time I use standard of might in PVP I wish I was casting devouring swarm. it would be 40 ult cheaper, give me the same resource return, give me ongoing resource return while its active, and not vanish instantly in a negate or because everyone rolled away from it and the fight moved. Batswarm comes with you as you chase down your target.
The concerns of vampires who don't PVP are real, but lets not pretend that batswarm isnt the premiere aoe ultimate in the current negate metagame in PVP. It absolutely is, due to its immunity to Absorption Field.
I never said it wasn't a good ultimate. i like it, but people generally exaggerate the strength of it. i personally haven't died very often in a bat swarm, only if a giant zerg rushes in, but even without bat swarm there is no way of surviving 20 aoe attacks per second. and when i use bat swarm on somebody without doing much additional damage and staying close to them, they're not very impressed. It's good, but it's not really stronger then other ultimates and if someone isn't capable of casting a shield or a self heal, then he probably deserves to die in this situation. That's natural selection.
What you fail to understand is that, in the hands of a skilled pvper with a build designed to fight outnumbered, Swarm is the best possible ultimate to use. It is cheap, powerful, consistent and provides additional healing. A capable 1vX build can generate the 150 ult for the next swarm while healing from the first. If thst player is a DK, scales ensures that you cannot deal damage without coming into the swarm.
It is the best pvp aoe damage ultimate by not close, and aoe damage is king in organized pvp.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
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MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »minack1preub18_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.
Bat swarm has been nerfed 2 times already. 25% less damage, 30% less healing. It's not nearly the strongest ultimate and so easy to avoid.
If something needs a nerf, then it's your attitude, sir.
In an objective way, moving away from the vampire is certainly a simple tactic to avoid batswarm. However, relative to other powerful ultimates, it is actually not easy to avoid.
Other powerful AOE ultimates include Solar Disturbance, Standard of Might, and Veil of Blades. All of these are stationary and cannot move to follow you when you attempt to move out of them like a batswarm can. Further, all of these are ground targetted effects and can be negated, and batswarm cannot.
I am a non-vampire DK and I will tell you every time, every time I use standard of might in PVP I wish I was casting devouring swarm. it would be 40 ult cheaper, give me the same resource return, give me ongoing resource return while its active, and not vanish instantly in a negate or because everyone rolled away from it and the fight moved. Batswarm comes with you as you chase down your target.
The concerns of vampires who don't PVP are real, but lets not pretend that batswarm isnt the premiere aoe ultimate in the current negate metagame in PVP. It absolutely is, due to its immunity to Absorption Field.
I never said it wasn't a good ultimate. i like it, but people generally exaggerate the strength of it. i personally haven't died very often in a bat swarm, only if a giant zerg rushes in, but even without bat swarm there is no way of surviving 20 aoe attacks per second. and when i use bat swarm on somebody without doing much additional damage and staying close to them, they're not very impressed. It's good, but it's not really stronger then other ultimates and if someone isn't capable of casting a shield or a self heal, then he probably deserves to die in this situation. That's natural selection.
What you fail to understand is that, in the hands of a skilled pvper with a build designed to fight outnumbered, Swarm is the best possible ultimate to use. It is cheap, powerful, consistent and provides additional healing. A capable 1vX build can generate the 150 ult for the next swarm while healing from the first. If thst player is a DK, scales ensures that you cannot deal damage without coming into the swarm.
It is the best pvp aoe damage ultimate by not close, and aoe damage is king in organized pvp.
I do understand that, and i consider myself a skilled pvper but i kinda only use it as a zerg buster or when i really get in trouble and need my attackers to back up a little.
People still exaggerate a lot. I have 5 VR Vamps and i pvp'd everyday of the last 9 months with them and there was some extensive use of bat swarm so i kinda know what's going on. Yes, it is a good utlimate. But it is not overpowered, especially not after 2 nerfs.1 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Hellooo @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please don't ignore us.
Unfortunately they can and will most likely ignore this thread as they do so many othersThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1