Are Imperials unbalanced?

SexyVette07 · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

I think they just need to buff the other racial that are sub par.

Theosis · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

a tree fell on me, it's made of wood..

Staves are wood! NERF it!

Khivas_Carrick · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

Fun Fact! Imperials are good for stamina but not the best. Redguard gets that, and even then Khajit and Bosmer are just as viable if not more in the Khajit's case.

Fun Fact! Imperials are nowhere near the best for Magicka. Breton and Altmer get that one hands down.

Fun Fact! Imperials might just barely get best tanks, but that's severely up for debate since our abysmal heal is based on chance and ask the other races get their bonuses constantly.

Fun fact! Being a multirole fighter does not mean you're the best at something, it just means you can do a lot of stuff.

Roechacca · February 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Fun Fact! Imperials are good for stamina but not the best. Redguard gets that, and even then Khajit and Bosmer are just as viable if not more in the Khajit's case.

Fun Fact! Imperials are nowhere near the best for Magicka. Breton and Altmer get that one hands down.

Fun Fact! Imperials might just barely get best tanks, but that's severely up for debate since our abysmal heal is based on chance and ask the other races get their bonuses constantly.

Fun fact! Being a multirole fighter does not mean you're the best at something, it just means you can do a lot of stuff.

You really don't see that many imperials in pvp . Why ? Because fun fact : Health bonus ain't dat important .

Panda244 · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

roechacca wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Fun Fact! Imperials are good for stamina but not the best. Redguard gets that, and even then Khajit and Bosmer are just as viable if not more in the Khajit's case.

Fun Fact! Imperials are nowhere near the best for Magicka. Breton and Altmer get that one hands down.

Fun Fact! Imperials might just barely get best tanks, but that's severely up for debate since our abysmal heal is based on chance and ask the other races get their bonuses constantly.

Fun fact! Being a multirole fighter does not mean you're the best at something, it just means you can do a lot of stuff.

You really don't see that many imperials in pvp . Why ? Because fun fact : Health bonus ain't dat important .

Truer words, I made Crassus a cheeseball Dragonknight with your typical sword and board light armor for PvP... Why did I make him an Imperial and not a Dunmer you ask?

Because I can crank out 2.6k Magicka, 1.9k stam, and 2.9k max health without the faction emperor bonus... Imperial racials are really only useful when you want a PvP magicka build that also has some extra stamina... Otherwise, there are much better races to min/max for DPS, tanks and healers.

vortexman11 · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Even though I voted nerf imperial passives all I want is a bit more love for all the other racial passives. Come on, other than my 6% damage mitigation all my nord passives are useless. And every class needs a update to the passive which grant more experience in certain skill lines as this is completely useless once you reach level 50.

MorHawk · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

With all the people still saying "don't nerf, buff the others", I'm seriously tempted to redo this poll properly to just say "are racials balanced, yes/no". Maybe once the dust settles from 1.6.

deadlock007 · February 2015

Of course Imperials are going to be more powerful....you have to pay to be one

Lord_Kreegan · February 2015

My daughter-in-law is a practicing psychologist (PhD-type) and, yes, she has informed me that Imperials are very definitely unbalanced. She has even suggested to me -- although I find this to be rather extreme -- that all Imperials should be incarcerated for the good of the public since at any point in time they are likely to go off the deep end and turn into mass murderers.

Apparently, they are all schizophrentic; highly arrogant in their wealth and presumed superiority over others, they lose all perspective of reality and begin to believe they actually are as powerful as the game defines them to be.

Absolutely delusional...

PlagueMonk · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

No, Imperials don't need a nerf,

Other races *cough* AGRONIAN *cough* that had their one decent racial replaced with a lame and poor substitute, need to be BUFFED.

danno8 · February 2015

Of course they are. Just look at their bonuses. They are much greater magnitude than the rest. It's math, and simple math that.

To those who say "it makes no difference" then I say if it make no difference then it shouldn't matter if they are scaled back then, right?

Unless of course you are just trying to defend your Imperial bonuses, because you know it DOES make a difference and you are trying to minimize it.

edit: that said, I think buffing the weaker races would be better than a nerf.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

vortexman11 wrote: »

Even though I voted nerf imperial passives all I want is a bit more love for all the other racial passives. Come on, other than my 6% damage mitigation all my nord passives are useless. And every class needs a update to the passive which grant more experience in certain skill lines as this is completely useless once you reach level 50.

I think you should factor in the 3% bonus to health, your 30% health regen, and 6% damage reduction into your equations. You also get some thematic strong level cold resistance as well, which currently I admit isn't that useful (but I argue it should be, ZoS needs to make cold more compelling). Nords are very tanky. The massive boost to health regen is not something to scoff at, and is certainly more valuable than Red Diamond by a long shot. To start, it works in all situations, whether you are fighting at range or up close and personal. It is always on, and the only time it isn't effective is when you play a Vampire, and Nord just isn't the best race for Vampire (Dunmer is). That damage reduction is a very powerful thing that works versus spells, weapons, everything. I personally think Nord is pretty well balanced, I certainly like mine. I think the only argument you have here is that Cold Damage really doesn't get much play in this game apart from some narrow pve situations.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

deadlock007 wrote: »

Of course Imperials are going to be more powerful....you have to pay to be one

I was never a fan of their choice to charge for the Imperial race. I know people who didn't play the game because of it. I do think they made Imperials fairly balanced though. The racial traits are nice, but simply raw and generic stat boosts. Consider that a Dunmer has 9% magicka bonus, 6% stamina bonus, 7% flame damage, and top notch Flame resistance. If all we're comparing is bonuses to attributes you'd have a case, but its really not fair to compare purely based on those numbers. The Imperial for instance would not have either of those flame stats, which are significant.

I'm glad that the ZoS developers are trying to bring balance to the races, I think that is important. If you're going to assess fairly though, the only way in which they can do so is to compare based on enchanting costs. Racial abilities are essentially permanent enchantments based on race. Poison/Disease Resistance, Cold Resistance, Fire resistance are all valuable traits. Health regeneration is a valuable trait despite what people say, particularly if you are built as a tank with your shield up, armor on and good spell regeneration.

When I compare races though, I think Bosmer might be coming out ahead against Redguard right now, if we're going to make comparisons. Bosmer have 3% Stamina bonus and 21% stamina regen now. Redguards had 10% Stamina bonus, and 9% stamina regen, as well as a small proccing stamina return on melee attacks. To be honest those stats look semi-even though they force the Redguard to be in melee to get use out of his adrenaline rush. Consider as well, that Bosmer ALSO get argonian-level disease/poison resistance and khajiit level stealth/damage bonus. I've always felt Bosmer were better than Khajiit, but now I think they beat Redguard and a lot of other races as well. The irony here is that traditionally Redguards had a poison/disease resistance in TES games. I personally feel Redguards might be the most unfairly treated race in ESO, followed by Khajiit (just because their racials are all over the map).

Messy1 · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

Are Imperials Unbalanced?

Exhibit A Abnar Tharn!

Lionxoft · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

I'd say buff the other races but we've all seen how ZOS buffed medium/stamina builds in 1.6.

OP,

I'd go out on a limb and say that a majority of the people saying "No" bought the Imperial edition. I for one have multiple Imperials because I know without a fragment of doubt that they are the most well rounded race in the game. 22% raw stat bonus and an overlooked tier 4 passive. Who wants a HoT for 6% of their health with no cooldown? It's possible folks. Very possible.

starkerealm · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

Lionxoft wrote: »

I'd say buff the other races but we've all seen how ZOS buffed medium/stamina builds in 1.6.

OP,

I'd go out on a limb and say that a majority of the people saying "No" bought the Imperial edition. I for one have multiple Imperials because I know without a fragment of doubt that they are the most well rounded race in the game. 22% raw stat bonus and an overlooked tier 4 passive. Who wants a HoT for 6% of their health with no cooldown? It's possible folks. Very possible.

The irony with the Imperials is, they're very good if you use them correctly. But, that's most races in the game, not just Imperials. It's just easier to recognize how an Imperial is useful at first glance than, say, a Breton or Bosmer.

charley222 · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

sure player dont want the Imperials to be nerfed the answer is easy , player pay for it

agree or not , the fact is true, you pay for Imperials race
everyone know anything beat the stamina of a orc , orc are able to runing all day long ,
just funny and no sence Imperials have better stamina pay to win

Lionxoft · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

charley222 wrote: »

sure player dont want the Imperials to be nerfed the answer is easy , player pay for it

agree or not , the fact is true, you pay for Imperials race
everyone know anything beat the stamina of a orc , orc are able to runing all day long ,
just funny and no sence Imperials have better stamina pay to win

What about an Argonian?

starkerealm · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

Lionxoft wrote: »

charley222 wrote: »

sure player dont want the Imperials to be nerfed the answer is easy , player pay for it

agree or not , the fact is true, you pay for Imperials race
everyone know anything beat the stamina of a orc , orc are able to runing all day long ,
just funny and no sence Imperials have better stamina pay to win

What about an Argonian?

Argonians really took it on the chin when the racial ultimates went away.

charley222 · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Lionxoft wrote: »

charley222 wrote: »

sure player dont want the Imperials to be nerfed the answer is easy , player pay for it

agree or not , the fact is true, you pay for Imperials race
everyone know anything beat the stamina of a orc , orc are able to runing all day long ,
just funny and no sence Imperials have better stamina pay to win

What about an Argonian?

i know stuff on my race(orc) but not every race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STEVxApPmKM

Panda244 · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

vortexman11 wrote: »

Even though I voted nerf imperial passives all I want is a bit more love for all the other racial passives. Come on, other than my 6% damage mitigation all my nord passives are useless. And every class needs a update to the passive which grant more experience in certain skill lines as this is completely useless once you reach level 50.

@vortexman11

We can't be friends anymore, first you ignore me when I come back. Now you want to nerf me......

In all seriousness, don't nerf Imperials, just buff the rest of the races. 12% max hp is no more OP than 10% max magicka that Altmers get.

Lionxoft · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Panda244 wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Even though I voted nerf imperial passives all I want is a bit more love for all the other racial passives. Come on, other than my 6% damage mitigation all my nord passives are useless. And every class needs a update to the passive which grant more experience in certain skill lines as this is completely useless once you reach level 50.

@vortexman11

We can't be friends anymore, first you ignore me when I come back. Now you want to nerf me......

In all seriousness, don't nerf Imperials, just buff the rest of the races. 12% max hp is no more OP than 10% max magicka that Altmers get.

12%hp + 10% stam

Panda244 · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

Lionxoft wrote: »

12%hp + 10% stam

Disclaimer: This post may be completely accurate, but it is in no way meant to offend anyone, sarcasm my dear brethren. Sarcasm.

Okay, okay... I'll play along with you for a moment, let us say the developers at Zenimax decide to "balance" Imperials to be more on par with the other racial passives okay? So we downgrade the +12% Health to +10%, and the +10% Stamina to +9%, then the racial will mimic the Altmer racial in terms of percentages. (+10% Maximum Magicka and +9% Magicka Recovery, for those of you that don't know what the Altmer racials are.) Still with me? Good. Good. Prepare for simple math.

Imperial with 3,000 Health and 2,000 Stamina.

Imperial Base Health = 2,640
Base Health + Racial = 3,000
Base Health + "Balanced" Racial = 2,904

Imperial Base Stamina = 1,800
Base Stamina + Racial = 2,000
Base Stamina + "Balanced" Racial = 1,962

Now, as a civilized, logical Human being that you are, you're going to tell me that a ninety-six, and thirty-eight point difference is worth the effort that it would take the developers? It's a joke, this entire thread, is a joke. If you're so worried about Imperials having an extra two or three percent, then bring the other classes on par with them. As I've said before, and will say again, hell I'll probably just add it into my signature, "Don't balance, what isn't unbalanced."

Now that the math has been provided, I can almost certainly, no I certainly can guarantee you that no skill in this game will cost ninety-six Health or thirty-eight Stamina at maximum rank, I won't do the further math, because it's too much work. But that extra thirty-eight Stamina probably saves the Imperial... Maybe.. Maybe one blocked attack every couple of minutes. Also, now that the math has been provided, you can probably tell Panda is a little irritated, due to being intoxicated and simply mind-blown. Oh and if the amount of sarcasm in this post offends you, I'm terribly sorry, but for once, out of the three hundred comments that I have posted in this forum, for once. I have provided cold, hard, inevitable, fact.

Fact. That the effort, to balance the Imperial class. Is an enormous waste of every single Elder Scrolls Online player brain cells' energy. Please, for the love of all that is no longer holy in this no longer good Earth, close this thread. Someone. Anyone. The statements have been made, the poll has been voted in, the waffles have been toasted, and the votes are in people. The votes are in, and 78% of us, think otherwise
Mr. @Lionxoft

You can argue that this decision to lower the percentages isn't enough of a balance, well to that, I can identify that you my dear sir, or madam, are simply asking for everything and everyone to be nerfed. Also just something I'd thought I'd mention, look at the Imperial passives, then go look at the Bosmer. +21% Stamina Regeneration seems a bit overpowered, we should nerf that too!!!

Conclusion:

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Anvos · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

More so an unsure vote, but I went with yes just because its a paid race.

RainfeatherUK · February 2015

No, Imperials are fine as is

Seems like alot of fuss about nothing. I like the racial diversity and despite being pretty interested in playing with numbers, I dont really have a problem with Imperials, killing Imperials - or find that I want to use them for 'everything' either.

Certainly they are a paid race and should be regarded as such but, for me, dramatically altering Racial Atributes towards more abitrary levels; especially considering the nature of Imperial perks; would be worryingly close to the beginning of racial homogenization. Something I really dont want personally.

If anything needs to change, then I concur with the other people about bringing underpeforming races up to par. But nerf them? ugh. No.

Phinix1 · February 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

Okay, so I get that the constant 'nerf' threads are a pain, I really should have avoided the N word, but really, is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps? If something does legitimately need nerfing, then what's the issue with calling for it?

I think you are being alarmist and inaccurate and this entire thread is a riot trying to happen for no good reason. You asked for my opinion, and you got it.

The "only" race with "double the stat bonus?" How about Redguards? Max Stamina AND Stamina Regen. That's two stats. How about Dark Elf? Max Stamina AND max Magicka. Also, the other racials are hardly trivial. Wood Elves now have a massive advantage in Stamina Regen, which IS a thing as Stamina builds are now much stronger.

I really think some people just like to cry nerf for the sake of it, whether they have thought through their argument or not.

Ivalice · February 2015

Sharee wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

And this is what you get for naming your poll wrong.

Instead, it should have asked whether the other racials should be changed to be on the same level as the imperial ones

Very much agree!

Lionxoft · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Panda244 wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

12%hp + 10% stam

Disclaimer: This post may be completely accurate, but it is in no way meant to offend anyone, sarcasm my dear brethren. Sarcasm.

Okay, okay... I'll play along with you for a moment, let us say the developers at Zenimax decide to "balance" Imperials to be more on par with the other racial passives okay? So we downgrade the +12% Health to +10%, and the +10% Stamina to +9%, then the racial will mimic the Altmer racial in terms of percentages. (+10% Maximum Magicka and +9% Magicka Recovery, for those of you that don't know what the Altmer racials are.) Still with me? Good. Good. Prepare for simple math.

Imperial with 3,000 Health and 2,000 Stamina.
Imperial Base Health = 2,640
Base Health + Racial = 3,000
Base Health + "Balanced" Racial = 2,904

Imperial Base Stamina = 1,800
Base Stamina + Racial = 2,000
Base Stamina + "Balanced" Racial = 1,962

Now, as a civilized, logical Human being that you are, you're going to tell me that a ninety-six, and thirty-eight point difference is worth the effort that it would take the developers? It's a joke, this entire thread, is a joke. If you're so worried about Imperials having an extra two or three percent, then bring the other classes on par with them. As I've said before, and will say again, hell I'll probably just add it into my signature, "Don't balance, what isn't unbalanced."

Now that the math has been provided, I can almost certainly, no I certainly can guarantee you that no skill in this game will cost ninety-six Health or thirty-eight Stamina at maximum rank, I won't do the further math, because it's too much work. But that extra thirty-eight Stamina probably saves the Imperial... Maybe.. Maybe one blocked attack every couple of minutes. Also, now that the math has been provided, you can probably tell Panda is a little irritated, due to being intoxicated and simply mind-blown. Oh and if the amount of sarcasm in this post offends you, I'm terribly sorry, but for once, out of the three hundred comments that I have posted in this forum, for once. I have provided cold, hard, inevitable, fact.

Fact. That the effort, to balance the Imperial class. Is an enormous waste of every single Elder Scrolls Online player brain cells' energy. Please, for the love of all that is no longer holy in this no longer good Earth, close this thread. Someone. Anyone. The statements have been made, the poll has been voted in, the waffles have been toasted, and the votes are in people. The votes are in, and 78% of us, think otherwise
Mr. @Lionxoft

You can argue that this decision to lower the percentages isn't enough of a balance, well to that, I can identify that you my dear sir, or madam, are simply asking for everything and everyone to be nerfed. Also just something I'd thought I'd mention, look at the Imperial passives, then go look at the Bosmer. +21% Stamina Regeneration seems a bit overpowered, we should nerf that too!!!

Conclusion:

So that short essay was just because I pointed out that you forgot the 10% stamina attribute modifier? Sorry but I didn't mean to provoke an emotional and/or sarcastic response. Let me ask you how you feel about Khajiit passives in comparison? Maybe that will lighten your mood a bit.

Like I've said before. Imperial is the most well rounded race in the game. I personally think it's more powerful than the other races in the game when it comes to pure attributes and the flexibility that they provide. Also, soft caps will be no more in 1.6 as you already know which will shine some more light on how far the gap can become.

Oh, did I mention to ask how you felt about Khajiits?

One after thought. Do you play as an Imperial and why did you choose to play as one? Just curious.

MorHawk · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

Okay, so I get that the constant 'nerf' threads are a pain, I really should have avoided the N word, but really, is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps? If something does legitimately need nerfing, then what's the issue with calling for it?

I think you are being alarmist and inaccurate and this entire thread is a riot trying to happen for no good reason. You asked for my opinion, and you got it.

The "only" race with "double the stat bonus?" How about Redguards? Max Stamina AND Stamina Regen. That's two stats. How about Dark Elf? Max Stamina AND max Magicka. Also, the other racials are hardly trivial. Wood Elves now have a massive advantage in Stamina Regen, which IS a thing as Stamina builds are now much stronger.

I really think some people just like to cry nerf for the sake of it, whether they have thought through their argument or not.

Don't...don't do that bud. Don't do the 'have you thought this through' patronizing crap, especially when you haven't read my post properly. I said "double the max stat bonuses". Important word there you clearly missed. Everyone else gets either gets 3-10% to one stat max, or in the case of Dunmer/Orsimer, 6% to two, so 12%. Hence, 22% total is essentially double what anyone else gets.

Yes, as you say, there are various bonuses to regens that other races get to counter-act this, and honestly I view those as far more valuable. Quite happy for example with my 30% health regen on my Orc, and that 21% stam regen on Bosmer...man, I think I'd swap everything the Orcs get for that bad boy. Point is though, it's quite the finger in the eye of other races that get neither.

Jar_Ek · February 2015

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Compared to other racial passives, Imperials are too strong. However my preference would be for other racial passives to be bought up to the same level, or at least nearly so.

Also your poll was really badly phrased, and should have had option 3. to bring other races passives in line with Imperial.