Are Imperials unbalanced?

MorHawk

Simple question, you all know the history. No softcaps, and about to be opened up to the public, so after this the crying over nerfs would be exponentially greater. If this is broken, it needs to be fixed, and now.

DeLindsay

No, Imperials are fine as is

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

Attorneyatlawl

No, Imperials are fine as is

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

Indeed. /thread.

Sharee

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

And this is what you get for naming your poll wrong.

Instead, it should have asked whether the other racials should be changed to be on the same level as the imperial ones

DeLindsay

No, Imperials are fine as is

@Sharee, I see what you did there

Vyle_Byte

No, Imperials are fine as is

Down with the nerf-herders!!!

Seriously. Just.. no man.

xaraan

No, Imperials are fine as is

I have a problem with too much of an adjustment to something they sold me as an extra thing. That's borderline bait and switch (sounds extreme, but it's a bit fishy) considering there are plenty of players out there that decided to purchase the upgrade based on what the race's bonuses are. I didn't, I would have bought it anyway just b/c I was one of those order the big package type guys, but it's not as simple as saying "well, we know you bought this for this reason, but we are changing that reason so live with it."

I'd rather see the other races improved a bit to all be appealing. No, they don't all need giant buffs to health or anything, but certain things could be brought up. Any race with a buff to a stat is in a pretty good place, but the resistances need to be fixed...

Health regen bonus needs to either change completely to something useful or greatly increase b/c 30% extra of a stat like that is pretty worthless,

Argonians should probably get more than a 3% increase to health, esp in light of the potion nerf.

I also wish all the races had more unique traits (no, not ultimates like they mentioned in the stream). I know some joke about the Argonian swim bonus, but I love it on my Argonian. I wish there were more things like that for other races (in addition to real bonuses, I'm thinking like the Argonian one where it's tacked onto another useful perk).

MorHawk

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Sharee wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

And this is what you get for naming your poll wrong.

Instead, it should have asked whether the other racials should be changed to be on the same level as the imperial ones

Nerf the outlier, or buff everything else? I know which one makes sense to me, but the distinction is fairly moot.

Okay, so I get that the constant 'nerf' threads are a pain, I really should have avoided the N word, but really, is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps? If something does legitimately need nerfing, then what's the issue with calling for it?

phreatophile

No, Imperials are fine as is

Not going too many takers with the universal nerf we're about to be hit with in 1.6.

Soft caps are going but the nerfs make up for it.

MorHawk

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

xaraan wrote: »

I have a problem with too much of an adjustment to something they sold me as an extra thing. That's borderline bait and switch...I'd rather see the other races improved a bit to all be appealing.

Again though, that's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Regardless, if there is an imbalance, then buffing the others and nerfing the outlier both result in the same effect. I've changed the thread title, but again, does everyone feel that the situation is fine as is? If so, then please, give me a rebuttal, don't just blow me off with that "no, just no" crap.

DeLindsay

No, Imperials are fine as is

MorHawk wrote: »

is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps?

I literally could care less as my Wood Elf NB main (my only VR14) will still be just as viable in 1.6 for Tanking, Healing and DPS as I am in 1.5.8.

MorHawk

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

DeLindsay wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps?

I literally could care less as my Wood Elf NB main (my only VR14) will still be just as viable in 1.6 for Tanking, Healing and DPS as I am in 1.5.8.

So, just to pin you down, you're okay with having a competitive disadvantage? I get that you might not PvP much, heck I never have, but really, that's okay with you?

yodased

DeLindsay wrote: »

literally couldn't care less as my Wood Elf NB main (my only VR14) will still be just as viable in 1.6 for Tanking, Healing and DPS as I am in 1.5.8.

Fixed for you. Also, you ARE a dungeon dweller, so you have to be a bit OP ;P

Verdwhisper

If anything, take away health buff, give imperial somthing useful, stam regen, health regen or magicka regen, rework red diamond, it is useless!

DeLindsay

No, Imperials are fine as is

MorHawk wrote: »

So, just to pin you down, you're okay with having a competitive disadvantage? I get that you might not PvP much, heck I never have, but really, that's okay with you?

I PvP'd quite a bit near launch (not on my main though, wrong Faction for my launch Guild) and do a little now on my Main. I will be doing more soon, but have been very busy testing on PTS for 1.6. BTW, you do understand that main stats, especially Magicka and Stamina, do not provide a large, direct increase in DPS/Healing right? Spell Damage and Weapon Power scale better than Mag/Stam. The only real advantage is a Race with + Magicka for the Harness Magicka Shield and Sorc's Hardened Ward. Even still, I don't care.

I'm absolutely of the position that Classes/Races should be completely different not only in their abilities but in how they approach Roles like Tanking, Healing, and DD. Also as of 1.6.2 Imperials get 12% Health (who cares) and 10% Stamina (even more who cares) plus 6% Restoration of Health when hit in melee (nice but not remotely OP). So Imperials can Block 1 second longer than the rest and take 1 Light Attack more, I don't at all see the problem.

@Yodased, yeah I know my grammar and spelling sucks lol.

Aeratus

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Imperial is way too strong, but the devs won't nerf them because they are part of the Imperial Edition.

Imperial Edition = pay to win existing from day 1.

IrishGirlGamer

No, Imperials are fine as is

And let's not forget! Many people think they look better than the other races!

Fix that now! Uglier Imperials, please!!

MorHawk

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

DeLindsay wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

So, just to pin you down, you're okay with having a competitive disadvantage? I get that you might not PvP much, heck I never have, but really, that's okay with you?

I PvP'd quite a bit near launch (not on my main though, wrong Faction for my launch Guild) and do a little now on my Main. I will be doing more soon, but have been very busy testing on PTS for 1.6. BTW, you do understand that main stats, especially Magicka and Stamina, do not provide a large, direct increase in DPS/Healing right? Spell Damage and Weapon Power scale better than Mag/Stam. The only real advantage is a Race with + Magicka for the Harness Magicka Shield and Sorc's Hardened Ward. Even still, I don't care.

I get that it may not be especially material, and I respect that it sounds like you know the systems well (though I'd question that conclusion with skills like Blazing Shield and Dragon Blood), but you are literally saying that you don't care about balance. Do you not see that this is a severely slippery slope?

Seriously, all I'm seeing here is "2>1 and I don't care", or worse, those who are actually trying to argue that 2=1. What gives?

Xjcon

Is it possible to be imperial? Is it possible to roll imperial dk? Why do people want to nerf something they can be like anyone else? I don't play an imperial but I also could care less just sick of jealous people calling for Nerfs every time they see a small imbalance.

WhiskeyJac

red diamond is useless ? ..... red diamond procs on meele attacks , caltrops does meele damage , throw them near a breach and you will just get free heals as they cross the breach.

same in PVE drop them on huge mobs and you get free heals.

donno if it is viable in 1.6 though with changes to caltrops

Valen_Byte

No, Imperials are fine as is

Xjcon wrote: »

Is it possible to be imperial? Is it possible to roll imperial dk? Why do people want to nerf something they can be like anyone else? I don't play an imperial but I also couldn't care less just sick of jealous people calling for Nerfs every time they see a small imbalance.

Fixed it for ya

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Don't nerf Imperials, buff the other racial passives (Argonian, Orc, Nord).

But seriously, to quote a recent comment: "Imperials get 12% to max health and 10% to stamina. Other races get at most 10% to one, and Orcs/Dunmer get 6% to health/stam, so 12% overall. So essentially double the bonuses of any other race. In a game that no longer has softcaps, meaning these percentages hold full force at endgame. It is unambiguously unbalanced."

Zabernat

No, Imperials are fine as is

Sharee wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

And this is what you get for naming your poll wrong.

Instead, it should have asked whether the other racials should be changed to be on the same level as the imperial ones

I completely agree! I wish the racial passives all had as much of an effect on in-game play as the imperial's passives do. I would MUCH prefer buffing other classes more so it feels like I'm really making a significant gameplay choice when I choose one class over another WITHOUT absolutely needing to be a specific race to effectively tank/heal/dps/etc.

DeLindsay

No, Imperials are fine as is

@MorHawk let me put it to you another way. Many Players use their Racial like an added Glyph or set bonus. To that end if I had 2000 more Magicka with my Racial, I could spend more Attribute points into Health to survive longer in PvP. There are very few Players who actually stack a single Attribute pool > everything else, and we're finding that those builds on PTS aren't actually viable, like the 40K Magicka Sorcs. They're gimmicky builds that might work for a very narrowly focused build/situation.

Even with +12% Health in PvP that's not going to net you any real advantage over another Player since as I said one Light Attack will negate that added Health. +10% Stamina sounds great for a Blocktacular but the reality on PTS is you might last an additional second when blocking enough attacks. You won't get a single additional Dodge-Roll out of that 10% though and the damage boost from 10% Stamina isn't much. 2H builds in PvP are doing so much damage that there's little difference between a Khajit and an Imperial wielding the same 2H build, the Player on the receiving end is still gonna die fast.

Folkb

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

theyre considered the best race for anything. If I had known that I would've made an imperial everything

though I wouldn't go so far as to say nerf them. Rather see other races be just as effective.

Zabernat

No, Imperials are fine as is

MorHawk wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Seriously people need to stop asking for nerfs to everything.

And this is what you get for naming your poll wrong.

Instead, it should have asked whether the other racials should be changed to be on the same level as the imperial ones

Nerf the outlier, or buff everything else? I know which one makes sense to me, but the distinction is fairly moot.

Okay, so I get that the constant 'nerf' threads are a pain, I really should have avoided the N word, but really, is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps? If something does legitimately need nerfing, then what's the issue with calling for it?

I think they should be okay with it honestly. But that's also why the other races need comparable buffs. ZOS already said they'd rather buff everything than nerfing one class or race because it's considered overpowered. That being said, why not "nerf the outlier"? Because that was paid content! Coming from someone who hasn't even bought the imperial edition, I still don't like the idea of paid content being created, sold, then nerfed.

Having your favorite powers being taken away is way less fun than other people getting powers that can hold a candle to yours.

And that is the biggest difference between nerfing one race or buffing all the others

Aeratus

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

DeLindsay wrote: »

@MorHawk let me put it to you another way. Many Players use their Racial like an added Glyph or set bonus. To that end if I had 2000 more Magicka with my Racial, I could spend more Attribute points into Health to survive longer in PvP. There are very few Players who actually stack a single Attribute pool > everything else, and we're finding that those builds on PTS aren't actually viable, like the 40K Magicka Sorcs. They're gimmicky builds that might work for a very narrowly focused build/situation.

Even with +12% Health in PvP that's not going to net you any real advantage over another Player since as I said one Light Attack will negate that added Health. +10% Stamina sounds great for a Blocktacular but the reality on PTS is you might last an additional second when blocking enough attacks. You won't get a single additional Dodge-Roll out of that 10% though and the damage boost from 10% Stamina isn't much. 2H builds in PvP are doing so much damage that there's little difference between a Khajit and an Imperial wielding the same 2H build, the Player on the receiving end is still gonna die fast.

My concern isn't pvp. In pvp, there are lots of factors involved...

But in PVE, 10% stam is already +5% dps. Moreover, +12% health means you can allocate the health points into stam than you normally would otherwise. So imperial will be doing at least about 7-8% more dps than another race.

All leaderboards in trials are very close at the top. There are also lots of very close SO speedrun attempts that have narrowly missed. The top ranks are separated by a few seconds. That's why balance is important.

For PVE dps, racials shouldn't attribute to more than 1-2% advantage in dps. Otherwise, this game can't be a serious PVE game. And most people are PVEers.

MorHawk

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

DeLindsay wrote: »

@MorHawk let me put it to you another way. Many Players use their Racial like an added Glyph or set bonus. To that end if I had 2000 more Magicka with my Racial, I could spend more Attribute points into Health to survive longer in PvP.

Yes, and meanwhile the other guy gets 1000 with *his* racial.

You're still debating materiality, and you haven't even responded to my comment about skills like Blazing Shield and Dragon Blood. Regardless, if they don't make any difference in combat then they should either be wiped entirely or buffed until they do. What I'm trying to get through here is that, and forgive me for the bold here but it's getting tiresome, materiality does not matter. There is an inequity. You are arguing that this is acceptable in a competitive game. That is just a smidge crazy.

DeLindsay

No, Imperials are fine as is

Aeratus wrote: »

My concern isn't pvp. In pvp, there are lots of factors involved...

But in PVE, 10% stam is already +5% dps. Moreover, +12% health means you can allocate the health points into stam than you normally would otherwise. So imperial will be doing at least about 7-8% more dps than another race.

All leaderboards in trials are very close at the top. There are also lots of very close SO speedrun attempts that have narrowly missed. The top ranks are separated by a few seconds. That's why balance is important.

For PVE dps, racials shouldn't attribute to more than 1-2% advantage in dps. Otherwise, this game can't be a serious PVE game. And most people are PVEers.

I'd love to see your statistics to back up that ONLY groups with 12 Imperials are at the top while mixed groups or groups that lack Imperials altogether are near the bottom or don't make the leaderboard at all. Without said statistics your complaint on the issue is nothing more than words on the internet.

Zabernat

No, Imperials are fine as is

MorHawk wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

MorHawk wrote: »

is everyone actually okay with one race having double the max stat bonuses in a game with no softcaps?

I literally could care less as my Wood Elf NB main (my only VR14) will still be just as viable in 1.6 for Tanking, Healing and DPS as I am in 1.5.8.

So, just to pin you down, you're okay with having a competitive disadvantage? I get that you might not PvP much, heck I never have, but really, that's okay with you?

I am fine with having a slight competitive disadvantage actually, like I said a little while ago, I don't own or really plan to buy the imperial edition and would prefer imperials not be nerfed. Their "advantage" isn't big enough that they become unstoppable anyways and the only people that will really get down on someone for not using the "best class best race best everything" on your character are kind of snobs anyways.

Nerfing is never fun for the people that get hit by it. So even if my race never gets buffed, I don't want imperials being nerfed

MorHawk

Yes, Imperials need to be nerfed

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Indeed. /thread.

Atto, I'm gonna go ahead and drag you into this. You're a reasonable guy, and your own sig criticizes folks for using exploits. Come on, give me more than a 'just because'. That's weak man.