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Vampires - It's not enough
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wraith808✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Hellooo @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please don't ignore us.
What kind of response do you expect? I don't even see where they could reasonably be expected to respond to this thread...
Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭MADshadowman wrote: »Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Please don't always bring up ww. You can discuss this in your own thread.
You want more counters for vampires? Is fire damage and a whole skill line dedicated to killing undead not enough?
If you haven't played a vamp, then you have no idea how little you feel as a vamp and how little of your "powers" actually work.
Forget about bat swarm, this is not about bat swarm. Your inability to differentiate between 1 ultimate and a broken skill line is alarming and annoying. Please make sure you understand the root of the problem we're discussing here before commenting.
Actually as i can read the OP has put ww as a comparison term for balance the skill lines.
My only proplem with vamps is that they are actually "monsters" who walk around in pretty dresses.
If we compare the SP tes in that game the player and maybe 10-20 more npc where vamps ( i'm not counting the killable ones around the world.
Told this in eso we (assuming) have 500 players in a zone,between them 300 are vampires and 150 are WW and only 50 are "uman".
I agree that vamps should be (at the same level and at the same " power") a lot more stronger than a "normal" player and in this line of balance the fighters guild skill line works well.
But no real cons are put in place to avoid that the population will embrace the shadows ( a x fire weakness is ridiculos since flame resistance gliphs can be crafted to rebalance a while the gap).
Right now as all the vamps are allowed to use the figters guild skill line, all the vamps can walk around in the cityes in stage 4 and under direct sunlight the only way to avoid that all the playerbase become vampires is to make quite worthless to spend skill points in it..
IMHO
The comparison is just an explanation how i came to this topic, this is not a ww discussion.
And no, we're no monsters. We are highly intelligent and sophisticated beings with slight skin problems. We walk and we talk just the way you do.
..........
This ^^ do not bring nothing new to the discussion what i can understand is that you like vampires nothing else.
@ OP if you wnat something more for the Vamps population you have to give something.
Again, what is the point to be "human"?
With mine templar vamp alt i actually feel like a warmachine with the only cons to have less skill points... nothing else.
You actually want more power as a vamp?
I think we are not playng the same game.... even after al the nerfs and finally the breakable stun of the feed in 1.6 i will be OP as a vamp without losing nothing.
I prefer to not become a Vampire on my other toons only for estetic reasons... nothing else and IMHO is not as it has to be <= (i actually dont know if is written correctly)
Edited by Tonnopesce on February 12, 2015 10:35AMSignature1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Nah.
Nah.
What?PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Nah.
Nah.
What?
If this was really a thing, we'd already know about that. And alchemy blood potions? You can't brew blood.0 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Please don't always bring up ww. You can discuss this in your own thread.
You want more counters for vampires? Is fire damage and a whole skill line dedicated to killing undead not enough?
If you haven't played a vamp, then you have no idea how little you feel as a vamp and how little of your "powers" actually work.
Forget about bat swarm, this is not about bat swarm. Your inability to differentiate between 1 ultimate and a broken skill line is alarming and annoying. Please make sure you understand the root of the problem we're discussing here before commenting.
Actually as i can read the OP has put ww as a comparison term for balance the skill lines.
My only proplem with vamps is that they are actually "monsters" who walk around in pretty dresses.
If we compare the SP tes in that game the player and maybe 10-20 more npc where vamps ( i'm not counting the killable ones around the world.
Told this in eso we (assuming) have 500 players in a zone,between them 300 are vampires and 150 are WW and only 50 are "uman".
I agree that vamps should be (at the same level and at the same " power") a lot more stronger than a "normal" player and in this line of balance the fighters guild skill line works well.
But no real cons are put in place to avoid that the population will embrace the shadows ( a x fire weakness is ridiculos since flame resistance gliphs can be crafted to rebalance a while the gap).
Right now as all the vamps are allowed to use the figters guild skill line, all the vamps can walk around in the cityes in stage 4 and under direct sunlight the only way to avoid that all the playerbase become vampires is to make quite worthless to spend skill points in it..
IMHO
The comparison is just an explanation how i came to this topic, this is not a ww discussion.
And no, we're no monsters. We are highly intelligent and sophisticated beings with slight skin problems. We walk and we talk just the way you do.
..........
This ^^ do not bring nothing new to the discussion what i can understand is that you like vampires nothing else.
@ OP if you wnat something more for the Vamps population you have to give something.
Again, what is the point to be "human"?
With mine templar vamp alt i actually feel like a warmachine with the only cons to have less skill points... nothing else.
You actually want more power as a vamp?
I think we are not playng the same game.... even after al the nerfs and finally the breakable stun of the feed in 1.6 i will be OP as a vamp without losing nothing.
I prefer to not become a Vampire on my other toons only for estetic reasons... nothing else and IMHO is not as it has to be <= (i actually dont know if is written correctly)
Read the whole thread again, you might have missed the 100 times we said this is not about power, just about a more versatile game play. We want immersion and you don't get immersion when you only have 3 active abilites, that are designed so bad that you either can't use them or don't want to use them.Edited by MADshadowman on February 12, 2015 5:47PM1 -
Sharkan✭Flavor usually comes from constraints and how you deal with them.
I'd be OK with vampires / werewolf being OP under certain circumstances and weak on other.
It would then be a real choice to be a vamp, and you'd have to act as one, instead of just being a vampire for the extra abilities.
Unfortunately, right now, I can see that the OPness far outweight the inconvenients. (just look at Cyrodill, it's "Vamp DK Online")
You can even walk the streets and mock the guards as a werewolf or a vampire...tell me about lore and immersion ^^1 -
Minack✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »minack1preub18_ESO wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]
Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.
1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.
We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily
Yes it's never been a problem .
http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U
Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .
Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.
I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .
Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .
Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.
Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .
Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?
First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.
and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.
Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts around.
Vamp ultimate badly needs a nerf. However, since 1.6 is monkeying with ult generation, it's probably best to wait before tinkering with too many abilities.
Bat swarm has been nerfed 2 times already. 25% less damage, 30% less healing. It's not nearly the strongest ultimate and so easy to avoid.
If something needs a nerf, then it's your attitude, sir.
The number of times a skill has been buffed or nerfed is irrelevant. If anything, it shows the level of competency we're dealing with at ZOS. In patricular, their inability to get things right the first or second time despite forum/community feedback .
Vampires are ubiquitous in PvP for a reason. They are very strong when combined with certain builds and decent players. Comparing the number of skills and passives between werewolf and vampire is a waste of time. What matters is what those skills do and how useful they arer. To say the vampire line is not worth taking or isn't fun is ignorant at best and downright disingenuous at worst.2 -
phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭Flavor usually comes from constraints and how you deal with them.
I'd be OK with vampires / werewolf being OP under certain circumstances and weak on other.
It would then be a real choice to be a vamp, and you'd have to act as one, instead of just being a vampire for the extra abilities.
Unfortunately, right now, I can see that the OPness far outweight the inconvenients. (just look at Cyrodill, it's "Vamp DK Online")
You can even walk the streets and mock the guards as a werewolf or a vampire...tell me about lore and immersion ^^
100% agree. I've been harping on this for months. Make it inconvenient to be a vampire or werewolf. Vampires should be much weaker than any mortal in sunlight and much stronger than a mortal in the dark and if we're are walking around bloodstarved so that everyone can see what we are we should be targeted by some and fled from by others. Werewolves, when transformed ought to be nearly unstoppable except for silver and poison, and should turn involuntarily under a full moon and stay in form for the duration.
As a player of a vampire character, if I log on in daylight, I ought to have a choice: head underground, go craft, log off, or try to play weak as a newborn.
The Cyrodil plague of vampires could be cured quite easily by making vampires unusable for fighting in sunlight.2 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭phreatophile wrote: »Flavor usually comes from constraints and how you deal with them.
I'd be OK with vampires / werewolf being OP under certain circumstances and weak on other.
It would then be a real choice to be a vamp, and you'd have to act as one, instead of just being a vampire for the extra abilities.
Unfortunately, right now, I can see that the OPness far outweight the inconvenients. (just look at Cyrodill, it's "Vamp DK Online")
You can even walk the streets and mock the guards as a werewolf or a vampire...tell me about lore and immersion ^^
100% agree. I've been harping on this for months. Make it inconvenient to be a vampire or werewolf. Vampires should be much weaker than any mortal in sunlight and much stronger than a mortal in the dark and if we're are walking around bloodstarved so that everyone can see what we are we should be targeted by some and fled from by others. Werewolves, when transformed ought to be nearly unstoppable except for silver and poison, and should turn involuntarily under a full moon and stay in form for the duration.
As a player of a vampire character, if I log on in daylight, I ought to have a choice: head underground, go craft, log off, or try to play weak as a newborn.
The Cyrodil plague of vampires could be cured quite easily by making vampires unusable for fighting in sunlight.
Just get over it dude. We are not weakened by sunlight. ESO vamps are immune to sunlight and it's covered by the lore, so give it a rest.1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭idk that I agree vampires aren't strong enough -- maybe they need more things that can be useful in PvE? I still see everyone saying becoming a vampire for PvP is a good thing and the fact that they can use abilities without toggling (like putting batswarm on their bar with other powers from their class) is a benefit, not a disadvantage IMO. They also get a lot of good passives that are useful without having to "turn into a vampire." (the faster sneak might see some more appreciation outside of pvp with the justice system coming out.) Not to mention the magicka regen bonus is great - and will be even better in 1.6 as resource management and potion use gets tighter. But it's hard to compare to WW imo b/c it's like apples and oranges, I mean, you don't have to build ultimate to become a vampire, you always are. So I look at it on its own:
I do think the fire damage is a good negative - there needs to be something major giving someone a serious second guess about becoming a vampire, and if you use fire resistance jewelry then it's not as crazy (I mean, we've run with vampires through CoA, so it's not the end of the world).
They could add other skills that would have more 'utility' use for PvE though. Something like a 'hypnotize' power that stuns an npc for a few seconds or 'charm' that let's you decrease aggro on a target temporarily. They could create toggle ability that a player could turn on to look normal (ie not a vampire) when in a city (be worth slotting that if you were just RPing or walking around a city and not in combat) and the toggle could immediately turn off if you used a vampire power like draining someone. Could even go into a slightly different area than typical vampire powers and give them a "pet" but have it be a human thrall or something like that. I'd be hesitant to add too much to them however combat related as they are already strong in a pvp sense.
It's also interesting how so many powers of a NB synergize well with a vampire- NB's fear, Their Sap essence, teleport strikes, etc all make me think a little like those are vampiric powers, so it would be hard to add things that simply do the same as other class powers. So I was trying to think of powers that would be different from those already existing ones.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭MADshadowman wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Flavor usually comes from constraints and how you deal with them.
I'd be OK with vampires / werewolf being OP under certain circumstances and weak on other.
It would then be a real choice to be a vamp, and you'd have to act as one, instead of just being a vampire for the extra abilities.
Unfortunately, right now, I can see that the OPness far outweight the inconvenients. (just look at Cyrodill, it's "Vamp DK Online")
You can even walk the streets and mock the guards as a werewolf or a vampire...tell me about lore and immersion ^^
100% agree. I've been harping on this for months. Make it inconvenient to be a vampire or werewolf. Vampires should be much weaker than any mortal in sunlight and much stronger than a mortal in the dark and if we're are walking around bloodstarved so that everyone can see what we are we should be targeted by some and fled from by others. Werewolves, when transformed ought to be nearly unstoppable except for silver and poison, and should turn involuntarily under a full moon and stay in form for the duration.
As a player of a vampire character, if I log on in daylight, I ought to have a choice: head underground, go craft, log off, or try to play weak as a newborn.
The Cyrodil plague of vampires could be cured quite easily by making vampires unusable for fighting in sunlight.
Just get over it dude. We are not weakened by sunlight. ESO vamps are immune to sunlight and it's covered by the lore, so give it a rest.
Fair enough. No getting over it, lore that was created because "MMO" is bad lore, but I won't clutter up your thread about it anymore. According to ingame lore we are stronger at night, but you know, we're not actually stronger at night because... reasons.3 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭phreatophile wrote: »MADshadowman wrote: »phreatophile wrote: »Flavor usually comes from constraints and how you deal with them.
I'd be OK with vampires / werewolf being OP under certain circumstances and weak on other.
It would then be a real choice to be a vamp, and you'd have to act as one, instead of just being a vampire for the extra abilities.
Unfortunately, right now, I can see that the OPness far outweight the inconvenients. (just look at Cyrodill, it's "Vamp DK Online")
You can even walk the streets and mock the guards as a werewolf or a vampire...tell me about lore and immersion ^^
100% agree. I've been harping on this for months. Make it inconvenient to be a vampire or werewolf. Vampires should be much weaker than any mortal in sunlight and much stronger than a mortal in the dark and if we're are walking around bloodstarved so that everyone can see what we are we should be targeted by some and fled from by others. Werewolves, when transformed ought to be nearly unstoppable except for silver and poison, and should turn involuntarily under a full moon and stay in form for the duration.
As a player of a vampire character, if I log on in daylight, I ought to have a choice: head underground, go craft, log off, or try to play weak as a newborn.
The Cyrodil plague of vampires could be cured quite easily by making vampires unusable for fighting in sunlight.
Just get over it dude. We are not weakened by sunlight. ESO vamps are immune to sunlight and it's covered by the lore, so give it a rest.
Fair enough. No getting over it, lore that was created because "MMO" is bad lore, but I won't clutter up your thread about it anymore. According to ingame lore we are stronger at night, but you know, we're not actually stronger at night because... reasons.
Well, we have 2 effects that work better at night. The drain essence morph das gives more healing at night and the dark stalker passive that let's you disappear quicker at night. Not really useful or impressive.1 -
phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, not very impressive. They could remove the health regen de-buff at night, still wouldn't amount to anything really, but it would at least make the lore plausibly true in game.
Back on track, I like the idea of having some vampy looking takes on already existing skills. Really just a new skin on an old ceremony, but they could give us a closer identical to Ambush in function but instead of pulling daggers out of a hat we blink next to our victim and bite them. The chain pull the DKs have could have an alternate animation where we stretch out our hand and telekinetically pull the victim in. If we really want to push the boundaries a little, replace DK standard with an impaled enemy and a deep red haze in the AOE, for a lighter touch a Dragon Skull on a pike in the center instead of the banner.
There's tons of others, sorcerer pets are an area ripe for this.
1 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭phreatophile wrote: »No, not very impressive. They could remove the health regen de-buff at night, still wouldn't amount to anything really, but it would at least make the lore plausibly true in game.
Back on track, I like the idea of having some vampy looking takes on already existing skills. Really just a new skin on an old ceremony, but they could give us a closer identical to Ambush in function but instead of pulling daggers out of a hat we blink next to our victim and bite them. The chain pull the DKs have could have an alternate animation where we stretch out our hand and telekinetically pull the victim in. If we really want to push the boundaries a little, replace DK standard with an impaled enemy and a deep red haze in the AOE, for a lighter touch a Dragon Skull on a pike in the center instead of the banner.
There's tons of others, sorcerer pets are an area ripe for this.
That's what i'm talking about. Just another version of existing game mechanics, like gap closers, stealth abilities, other single target abilities.1 -
Solanum✭✭✭Anyone claiming firedamage is barely noticeable on a Vampire, has not been playing a Vampire very long.
That said, investing a whole bunch of skillpoints to gain a character weaker then a standard character doesn't seem very fair either.
There are plenty of nice ways to make Vampires more Vampiric in their style, for example:
Give us different Vampire lines, a warrior/thief/mage for example. Each with their own benefits.
Remove food buffs and potions from the Vampires, while this weakens them, choosing a bloodline that compliments their build will balance this out.
Play around with abilities that cost health/restore health. Or give us something along the lines of a bloodpool, that depletes faster in sunlight perhaps.
Perhaps alter the looks for class skills that Vampires have, Nightblades cloak of shadows could look like they burst into a swarm of bats. Same for the Sorcerers streak/lightning form. The last chance wouldn't change anything in balance but add a lot of flavour and fun to the Vampires.2 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Anyone claiming firedamage is barely noticeable on a Vampire, has not been playing a Vampire very long.
That said, investing a whole bunch of skillpoints to gain a character weaker then a standard character doesn't seem very fair either.
There are plenty of nice ways to make Vampires more Vampiric in their style, for example:
Give us different Vampire lines, a warrior/thief/mage for example. Each with their own benefits.
Remove food buffs and potions from the Vampires, while this weakens them, choosing a bloodline that compliments their build will balance this out.
Play around with abilities that cost health/restore health. Or give us something along the lines of a bloodpool, that depletes faster in sunlight perhaps.
Perhaps alter the looks for class skills that Vampires have, Nightblades cloak of shadows could look like they burst into a swarm of bats. Same for the Sorcerers streak/lightning form. The last chance wouldn't change anything in balance but add a lot of flavour and fun to the Vampires.
Your ideas are nice but way too much. This would never be approved by ZOS and bring us a lot of hate from non-vamps. We should keep our wishes for abilities pretty simple and basic. What's sad is that no one from ZOS has responded to this thread. I mean is it too much to ask for to just drop a comment here if they get tagged multiple times?1 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MRW I'm a WW and see Vampires complaining and saying they need a buff.
"Vampires have only 2 skill but WW have 5" That's true, But you are also forgetting the fact you can use your Vampire skills with anything you want, you can use class/weapon/guild/alliance/armor abilities with your vampire, You need to be a Werewolf to even use a WW ability.
This is not to mention Werewolves have to transform to even get the benefits, and the Cost to transform into a Werewolf is the highest costing Ultimate in the game.
Vampire skills are also the most broken abilities in the game.
Mist form - Decide when you want to be in or out of combat, If anything is ever going wrong you can mist form away and 95% of the time no one will ever be able to catch you. Unlike Nightblade invis, you don't get pulled out of invisibility by AoE.
Drain essence - Perma CC someone, they cannot break out of it no matter what, even if they have immovable on
Bat swarm. I don't even want to start. But...
Bat swarm - The only AoE ultimate in the game that moves with the character. Every single AoE ultimate is placed in a spot and does not move with the character Not only that, While you have Bat swarm active you can use abilities while you are bat swarming
If a vampire can run around with batswarm and mist form going along with spamming impulse, why can't I cast Remembrance and spam Breath of Life?~Thallen~2 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭You're not getting it. We are the vamp community and we are not happy with the way we have to play our characters. We want to change that. You guys always see yourself as the victims here, but this is not about you, not about your opinion and not about your irrational fear of vampires. Everyone should be happy with the way they're playing and we are making an effort to get it this way. If you're not happy with being a ww, then start your own thread and don't leave that stuff here.3
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awkwarrd✭✭✭Back in the day, vampires were fine..
Until the DKs and SORCs abused the ulti-reduction stuff.
That's where all those batswarm problems came from.
The only actual problem with batswarm.. was that it was able to stack.. nothing else..
Every video linked with someone abusing the old batswarm ulti.. was a DK and a SORC using the ulti-reduction gear and passives.
Instead of fixing the class's that were abusing the mechanics.. vampires were targeted and "fixed" by breaking them.
From mist form abuse to batswarm, today nothing remains of fun mechanics.
Also.. even to this day you still see the tooltip bug for the vampire ultimate not saying the correct cost for the ulti.. which is kinda sad.. that's like 9 or so months ago.. and is still like this, and is probably like that in 1.6.- Why DK and SORC ulti-abusing mechanics were not fixed instead?
- Laziness i think, everyone was working on craglorn.
Fire damage? and a DK can be a vamp, with no variables that make them using fire or vampire abilities weaker while having fire abilities on their bar.
1.6 and Fire damage reduction?.. by what? a tiny amount that will mean nothing based on the unlocked soft caps.
Also the bug that always needed vampires to logout to get the vampire benefits.
That went on for a long while, no fix for ages, just ignored, as a middle finger from the staff for abusing a bug, every vampire was subjected to.. even if you were not even a class that could use the abused mechanic by a DK and SORC.
Weird how a DK who was a vampire.. was able to get 100% benefit from his fire spells and all vampire abilities while having fire spells in his ability bar.
Plenty more examples of Vampire DKs.. but apparently all the DEVs played a DK..
Another weird thing is how supernatural class's like WW and Vamp.. in all lore has had those supernatural healing as passives, like big gash in their hand or arm and it just heals up right infront of the person looking at it.
With ESO.. vamps can only get that healing via using abilities, and if they gain more levels of vamp the health regen gets worse.
Same for WW.
I could go on.. but really there is no point, im sure it's all been said before.. but we are still left with this and no feedback from staff.. like ever..
My suggestion..
Give Vampires..- Vampire Vision when it's night time. (Making enemies glow at night or something)
- Change Feed to a tether ability. (this stun and channel thing is dumb)
- Increase mist forms mist radius. (so it's harder to find the vamps actual position)
- Stealthing at night should give mist form. (vamp stealth passive is boring as hell)
Give Werewolfs..- Werewolf Vision when it's night time. (same as vamp, but different glow color)
- Lock the Form's duration drain when sprinting (Adrenalin is a strong thing)
- Make actual abilities instead of giving them multiple howls? (pretty lame)
- Make them run ALOT faster at night. (they should be insane fast at night)
This thread is so long, i doubt this reply will be read, especially by a staff member.
It's not like the ESO staff have ever been good with feedback based on Vamp or WW.
At the end of the day..
The current player base shows that the staff of eso didn't do a good job.
They need to drop to B2P to get people back to be able to stay online, the only people that still play ESO are the die hard fanatic fans of TES, and now maybe a few people who have come back for 1.6 based on some of the changes that were being unveiled way back in the first month of launch.. while 9+ months later.. it finally comes to the game.
I feel there is plenty of room to improve the game, but i don't know if the people in-charge will allow it.
They have said that after 1.6 there will be no major content updates, i hope that they will still fix and balance the game and add stuff to the game in the mean time.
If 1.6 fails, then TESO will just be another game that was released to early and had horrible decisions made by people who don't even play it.
So whether the management decide that a facelift for Vamps and WW are a good idea after all the issues in the past, then good, but i won't hold my breath, the staffs previous acts so far show that they probably won't, whther it's their decision or not it won't matter, unless it's a nerf.
With the exception to werewolf.. there needed to be something done for werewolf.. what a huge hole of garbage werewolf was and kinda still is.
~edit..
oh crap sorry for this long post, if you made it this far, have a skooma on me.4 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It really is infuriating that even post after post regarding vampires ZOS refuses to even give us a comment. Just a, "Hey, we see your concerns and are looking into it," would make me feel a little better, true or not. LOLPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, this is just a punch in the face. If i violate any forum rules, there is a moderator that edits my post almost instantly, but such a huge discussion like this can't even get one lousy reply from ZOS2
-
wraith808✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Yeah, this is just a punch in the face. If i violate any forum rules, there is a moderator that edits my post almost instantly, but such a huge discussion like this can't even get one lousy reply from ZOS
Maybe because they're empowered as moderators, but limited in their posting by someone else? Just food for thought...
(and that escalated quickly from slap to punch...)Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MADshadowman wrote: »Yeah, this is just a punch in the face. If i violate any forum rules, there is a moderator that edits my post almost instantly, but such a huge discussion like this can't even get one lousy reply from ZOS
Welcome to my world MAD. Check out ANY of the many posts I have started regarding vampires. All you'll find is moderation for not playing by the rules and warnings to behave. ZERO comments regarding what the thread is actually about. It's like Paul Sage has a personal hatred of vampires.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
Buck✭✭✭My suggestion..
Give Vampires..- Vampire Vision when it's night time. (Making enemies glow at night or something)
- Change Feed to a tether ability. (this stun and channel thing is dumb)
- Increase mist forms mist radius. (so it's harder to find the vamps actual position)
- Stealthing at night should give mist form. (vamp stealth passive is boring as hell)
Give Werewolfs..- Werewolf Vision when it's night time. (same as vamp, but different glow color)
- Lock the Form's duration drain when sprinting (Adrenalin is a strong thing)
- Make actual abilities instead of giving them multiple howls? (pretty lame)
- Make them run ALOT faster at night. (they should be insane fast at night)
This thread is so long, i doubt this reply will be read, especially by a staff member.
It's not like the ESO staff have ever been good with feedback based on Vamp or WW.
Maybe they can just add another world skill line or buff the soul magic line, and make it a choice to loose that line in favor of vamp or werewolf. I just don't see them giving the classes the buff and changes they need when the regular or neutral players get nothing, so adding the third world skill line to the choices might be a better way to balance the choice. /shrug0 -
wafcatb14_ESO✭✭✭. Yep pretty much this .
At the end of the day..
The current player base shows that the staff of eso didn't do a good job.
They need to drop to B2P to get people back to be able to stay online, the only people that still play ESO are the die hard fanatic fans of TES, and now maybe a few people who have come back for 1.6 based on some of the changes that were being unveiled way back in the first month of launch.. while 9+ months later.. it finally comes to the game.
I`m in a large gaming community, that is 13 years old and spans several games. We started at launch with 1300 guild members playing ESO.
After the first 4 months of game, we were down to 300 guild members still playing ESO. now after almost a year we have stablized at 240 guild members still playing ESO, the 1150 ish that quit ESO are still in the guild they are just not wasting time in this game.
Game was poorly done, too make broken mechanics that went unfixed, hell the front gate of Farrgut keep in Cyrodill still glows brilliant white, its been that was since back in dec 2013 , 4 months before release.
Game by its design is not that good either, anti-social game mechanics, non-functioning LFG tools, bad guild functions, bad guild store design, bad phasing group quest system etc. too long of a list really.
When they announced the B2P you would think a lot of people would return, but out of the 1150 ish that quit ESO, only 5 said they may try it again, the rest of the over than 1100 players said they wouldn`t play it , even with it being free because they already owned a copy, it didn`t matter game wasn`t worth wasting time on.
2 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Ok, my post got deleted again.
Thank you ZOS. @ZOS_GinaBruno i'd like to talk to you, Message me. Your rules suck and i'm sick of getting cut off because i'm saying something you don't wanna hear. Instead of cutting off everyone who is critical about what you're doing, you could just work on the crap you're constantly producing.
I'm really mad about how you treat your paying customers.
You should feel horrible for your behavior. You keep screwing us over and over again and don't even have the balls to admit that.
Grow a pair.1 -
Solanum✭✭✭You're asking a lady to grow a pair? A pair of what exactly?
There is a fat line between being critical and taking it too far on these forums.
I've been ranting about my own opinion on these forums for quite a bit, and only got one message removed.
All in all, while I do wish to see things happen faster, I definitely think the game is moving in the right direction. Both in balance and style. 1.6 improves gameplay balance quite a bit, more customization, the justice system looks sweet, thieves guild armor is something I want so badly, not to mention the Imperial Daedric looks like proper Daedric armor.
I just wish they'd give Vampires some love.Edited by Solanum on February 15, 2015 12:30AM1 -
awkwarrd✭✭✭Back in the day, vampires were fine..
Until the DKs and SORCs abused the ulti-reduction stuff.
That's where all those batswarm problems came from.
The only actual problem with batswarm.. was that it was able to stack.. nothing else..
Every video linked with someone abusing the old batswarm ulti.. was a DK and a SORC using the ulti-reduction gear and passives.
Instead of fixing the class's that were abusing the mechanics.. vampires were targeted and "fixed" by breaking them.
From mist form abuse to batswarm, today nothing remains of fun mechanics.
Also.. even to this day you still see the tooltip bug for the vampire ultimate not saying the correct cost for the ulti.. which is kinda sad.. that's like 9 or so months ago.. and is still like this, and is probably like that in 1.6.- Why DK and SORC ulti-abusing mechanics were not fixed instead?
- Laziness i think, everyone was working on craglorn.
Fire damage? and a DK can be a vamp, with no variables that make them using fire or vampire abilities weaker while having fire abilities on their bar.
1.6 and Fire damage reduction?.. by what? a tiny amount that will mean nothing based on the unlocked soft caps.
Also the bug that always needed vampires to logout to get the vampire benefits.
That went on for a long while, no fix for ages, just ignored, as a middle finger from the staff for abusing a bug, every vampire was subjected to.. even if you were not even a class that could use the abused mechanic by a DK and SORC.
Weird how a DK who was a vampire.. was able to get 100% benefit from his fire spells and all vampire abilities while having fire spells in his ability bar.
Plenty more examples of Vampire DKs.. but apparently all the DEVs played a DK..
Another weird thing is how supernatural class's like WW and Vamp.. in all lore has had those supernatural healing as passives, like big gash in their hand or arm and it just heals up right infront of the person looking at it.
With ESO.. vamps can only get that healing via using abilities, and if they gain more levels of vamp the health regen gets worse.
Same for WW.
I could go on.. but really there is no point, im sure it's all been said before.. but we are still left with this and no feedback from staff.. like ever..
My suggestion..
Give Vampires..- Vampire Vision when it's night time. (Making enemies glow at night or something)
- Change Feed to a tether ability. (this stun and channel thing is dumb)
- Increase mist forms mist radius. (so it's harder to find the vamps actual position)
- Stealthing at night should give mist form. (vamp stealth passive is boring as hell)
Give Werewolfs..- Werewolf Vision when it's night time. (same as vamp, but different glow color)
- Lock the Form's duration drain when sprinting (Adrenalin is a strong thing)
- Make actual abilities instead of giving them multiple howls? (pretty lame)
- Make them run ALOT faster at night. (they should be insane fast at night)
This thread is so long, i doubt this reply will be read, especially by a staff member.
It's not like the ESO staff have ever been good with feedback based on Vamp or WW.
At the end of the day..
The current player base shows that the staff of eso didn't do a good job.
They need to drop to B2P to get people back to be able to stay online, the only people that still play ESO are the die hard fanatic fans of TES, and now maybe a few people who have come back for 1.6 based on some of the changes that were being unveiled way back in the first month of launch.. while 9+ months later.. it finally comes to the game.
I feel there is plenty of room to improve the game, but i don't know if the people in-charge will allow it.
They have said that after 1.6 there will be no major content updates, i hope that they will still fix and balance the game and add stuff to the game in the mean time.
If 1.6 fails, then TESO will just be another game that was released to early and had horrible decisions made by people who don't even play it.
So whether the management decide that a facelift for Vamps and WW are a good idea after all the issues in the past, then good, but i won't hold my breath, the staffs previous acts so far show that they probably won't, whther it's their decision or not it won't matter, unless it's a nerf.
With the exception to werewolf.. there needed to be something done for werewolf.. what a huge hole of garbage werewolf was and kinda still is.
~edit..
oh crap sorry for this long post, if you made it this far, have a skooma on me.Maybe they can just add another world skill line or buff the soul magic line, and make it a choice to loose that line in favor of vamp or werewolf. I just don't see them giving the classes the buff and changes they need when the regular or neutral players get nothing, so adding the third world skill line to the choices might be a better way to balance the choice. /shrug
Nah they won't do any of that, and i don't see why that would make a difference to a WW or NB by having the Soul Magic stuff anyway.
Plus a werewolf won't really use it in wolf form, it would mostly be for a vamp and a ww in human form, since most ww only use it for RP anyway since it sux.. and has sucked for manny mannny months.
I personally don't see them doing anything for VAMP or WW.. like at all..
They took away the Feed stun for PVP..
They destroyed the Fire glyphs in 1.6, but they lowered the fire damage by 10%.. even though the fire glyphs got a 40% nuke.
Everything they do is backwards for WW and VAMP, even the WW buffs are crap..
We say "yay great".. but seriously it was needed and the WW community would have taken anything at this point.
There is basically no fun left in it, and the players see it's deign flaws, the "technical" side.. instead of the "fun" side.
It's all min/max'd and elitist spreadsheeted down to something that needs a face lift.
Granted the WW is getting one.. kinda..
Mostly kinda dumb stuff really, but it has some bits that just make htose WW's cling to the idea that the developers do care.. and hope that it expands in the future.
While those of us who were here at start.. and are seeing only now that these things are happening.. at this current stage in ESO's slowly degrading life.. we can tell that this is it.. this is all the developers can muster.. and the players will get nothing else.
Granted this is a fair amount to muster.. but they have been talking about this since the first month of launch..
And we are told now that after 1.6 there will be no updates for a long time.
So in that perspective.. i doubt VAMP and WW will even make it into a conversation with developers.Edited by awkwarrd on February 15, 2015 1:10AM1 -
MADshadowman✭✭✭✭✭Back in the day, vampires were fine..
Until the DKs and SORCs abused the ulti-reduction stuff.
That's where all those batswarm problems came from.
The only actual problem with batswarm.. was that it was able to stack.. nothing else..
Every video linked with someone abusing the old batswarm ulti.. was a DK and a SORC using the ulti-reduction gear and passives.
Instead of fixing the class's that were abusing the mechanics.. vampires were targeted and "fixed" by breaking them.
From mist form abuse to batswarm, today nothing remains of fun mechanics.
Also.. even to this day you still see the tooltip bug for the vampire ultimate not saying the correct cost for the ulti.. which is kinda sad.. that's like 9 or so months ago.. and is still like this, and is probably like that in 1.6.- Why DK and SORC ulti-abusing mechanics were not fixed instead?
- Laziness i think, everyone was working on craglorn.
Fire damage? and a DK can be a vamp, with no variables that make them using fire or vampire abilities weaker while having fire abilities on their bar.
1.6 and Fire damage reduction?.. by what? a tiny amount that will mean nothing based on the unlocked soft caps.
Also the bug that always needed vampires to logout to get the vampire benefits.
That went on for a long while, no fix for ages, just ignored, as a middle finger from the staff for abusing a bug, every vampire was subjected to.. even if you were not even a class that could use the abused mechanic by a DK and SORC.
Weird how a DK who was a vampire.. was able to get 100% benefit from his fire spells and all vampire abilities while having fire spells in his ability bar.
Plenty more examples of Vampire DKs.. but apparently all the DEVs played a DK..
Another weird thing is how supernatural class's like WW and Vamp.. in all lore has had those supernatural healing as passives, like big gash in their hand or arm and it just heals up right infront of the person looking at it.
With ESO.. vamps can only get that healing via using abilities, and if they gain more levels of vamp the health regen gets worse.
Same for WW.
I could go on.. but really there is no point, im sure it's all been said before.. but we are still left with this and no feedback from staff.. like ever..
My suggestion..
Give Vampires..- Vampire Vision when it's night time. (Making enemies glow at night or something)
- Change Feed to a tether ability. (this stun and channel thing is dumb)
- Increase mist forms mist radius. (so it's harder to find the vamps actual position)
- Stealthing at night should give mist form. (vamp stealth passive is boring as hell)
Give Werewolfs..- Werewolf Vision when it's night time. (same as vamp, but different glow color)
- Lock the Form's duration drain when sprinting (Adrenalin is a strong thing)
- Make actual abilities instead of giving them multiple howls? (pretty lame)
- Make them run ALOT faster at night. (they should be insane fast at night)
This thread is so long, i doubt this reply will be read, especially by a staff member.
It's not like the ESO staff have ever been good with feedback based on Vamp or WW.
At the end of the day..
The current player base shows that the staff of eso didn't do a good job.
They need to drop to B2P to get people back to be able to stay online, the only people that still play ESO are the die hard fanatic fans of TES, and now maybe a few people who have come back for 1.6 based on some of the changes that were being unveiled way back in the first month of launch.. while 9+ months later.. it finally comes to the game.
I feel there is plenty of room to improve the game, but i don't know if the people in-charge will allow it.
They have said that after 1.6 there will be no major content updates, i hope that they will still fix and balance the game and add stuff to the game in the mean time.
If 1.6 fails, then TESO will just be another game that was released to early and had horrible decisions made by people who don't even play it.
So whether the management decide that a facelift for Vamps and WW are a good idea after all the issues in the past, then good, but i won't hold my breath, the staffs previous acts so far show that they probably won't, whther it's their decision or not it won't matter, unless it's a nerf.
With the exception to werewolf.. there needed to be something done for werewolf.. what a huge hole of garbage werewolf was and kinda still is.
~edit..
oh crap sorry for this long post, if you made it this far, have a skooma on me.Maybe they can just add another world skill line or buff the soul magic line, and make it a choice to loose that line in favor of vamp or werewolf. I just don't see them giving the classes the buff and changes they need when the regular or neutral players get nothing, so adding the third world skill line to the choices might be a better way to balance the choice. /shrug
Nah they won't do any of that, and i don't see why that would make a difference to a WW or NB by having the Soul Magic stuff anyway.
Plus a werewolf won't really use it in wolf form, it would mostly be for a vamp and a ww in human form, since most ww only use it for RP anyway since it sux.. and has sucked for manny mannny months.
I personally don't see them doing anything for VAMP or WW.. like at all..
They took away the Feed stun for PVP..
They destroyed the Fire glyphs in 1.6, but they lowered the fire damage by 10%.. even though the fire glyphs got a 40% nuke.
Everything they do is backwards for WW and VAMP, even the WW buffs are crap..
We say "yay great".. but seriously it was needed and the WW community would have taken anything at this point.
There is basically no fun left in it, and the players see it's deign flaws, the "technical" side.. instead of the "fun" side.
It's all min/max'd and elitist spreadsheeted down to something that needs a face lift.
Granted the WW is getting one.. kinda..
Mostly kinda dumb stuff really, but it has some bits that just make htose WW's cling to the idea that the developers do care.. and hope that it expands in the future.
While those of us who were here at start.. and are seeing only now that these things are happening.. at this current stage in ESO's slowly degrading life.. we can tell that this is it.. this is all the developers can muster.. and the players will get nothing else.
Granted this is a fair amount to muster.. but they have been talking about this since the first month of launch..
And we are told now that after 1.6 there will be no updates for a long time.
So in that perspective.. i doubt VAMP and WW will even make it into a conversation with developers.
Even though this is only about vamps and i don't really want ww talk in here, i feel you and admit that ww are only a little better designed than vamps and both miss a lot of stuff to make them viable and fun. I wonder if we would get more attention if we would fight together for the changes we want.0 -
awkwarrd✭✭✭
Yeah, i apologize for bringing WW into the argument.MADshadowman wrote: »Even though this is only about vamps and i don't really want ww talk in here, i feel you and admit that ww are only a little better designed than vamps and both miss a lot of stuff to make them viable and fun. I wonder if we would get more attention if we would fight together for the changes we want.
You're right i feel WW and VAMP fighting together on a feedback front would be more beneficial.
It's hard to bring up one without the other, since they are both in the same lore structure within TES.
I really could go on and on about both in a huge post, but i stop myself, as you'v seen in previous replies.
Both WW and VAMP being in ESO is great, but it's also not great, because they aren't given justice at all.
They both get way more CONS than PROS, and if it wasn't for SORC and DK abusing broken mechanics, they probably wouldn't even have been given a 2nd look.
I have read through this thread, and countless others, and i have seen some really horrible suggestions.. and some really good suggestions.
And majority of them look at both WW and VAMP in the same light as a developer and not from a game perspective, the more technical vs the more fun.
While im sure there are WW who might disagree with me on some points, i bet that the WW community is just happy they are getting something.. if anything.. after 9months of just being neglected.
They would accept anything at this poin, regardless of if it was fun or good, having multiple howls like they are a foghorn on and oldschool lighthouse.
The WW has soo many more possibilities that would make the damn sub-class fun, and i wish the DEVs would just stop and smile and do something good instead of getting way too boxed in.
Where as the Vampire community just seems to be getting the middle finger after being hit so hard with so many nerfs primarily because of class's able to abuse the mechanics.
So basically every 9 months either WW or VAMP will get an update, and probably will be added to the game via a DLC after 1.6.
And from 1.6, i think VAMP is next on the rotation for getting an update.. hopefully.. but VAMPs will need to wait another 9months.
Every one of those "the road ahead" blogs, completely ignores the 2 sub-class's or factions, and are just slightly mentioned in vague patch notes, that's it..
It's a pretty poor design in general..
For example:
A DK can be a vamp, with fire abilities in his bar.. and the fighters guild silver bolts in his bar, and he can still function at 100% with no drawbacks.
All he has to worry about is "Poison" or "Fire" and "the fighters guild tree".
Not the fact he is technically abusing more mechanics.. like being able to use fire and poison.. and silver bolts.. and there is nothing to deter him.. from using things that are fatal to him, just like how they were able to stack ulti-reduction and spam batswarm for 3 weeks when the exploiters discovered the bug.. 3 weeks it took to fix that.. with multiple nerf patches to vamp along that "the road ahead" which was mentioned via patch notes yet again..
I guess DKs would disagree with me whole heartedly about my examples of VAMP DKs.- But i didn't design the VAMP to be susceptible to fire, i didn't design the DK to have a dang fire whip and breath..
- I didn't make the elements affect the sub-class's this way.
- I didn't think of a horrible mechanic vs a fun one when using element abilities in a subclass.
- I didn't make the WW and VAMP disease giving spawns easily killable by 1 person who is low level.
- I didn't design the disease giving spawns to not represent the evil and fear they should in the public, basically because they knew the mechanics designed for the sub-class were going to be crap and tweaked and nerfed every 9 months or until a bug was exploited and abused.
- I didn't make the DK able to use everything the game has to offer with no LORE-WALL while still trying to balance the sub-class WW and VAMP around the Lore.
Im just voicing feedback and making suggestions, sure some of them sound harsh, but i hope the DEVs wear some beer-goggles when reading what i say and notice the poetry in my words, because i don't mean for my frustration to shine through and i hope that is how it's viewed.
Or else it's just going to be like Jay Wilson kind of development with Bobby Kotich pulling the strings in the background.
If you all can remember quotes from either of those people, let's hope the ESO DEVs are better in all aspects..
Bobby Kotich was a gaming monster that designed games for money and is even quoted as saying that in an interview, and Jay Wilson just insults people and customers.
I would hate to be able to compare ESO staff to either of them.
God.. i did it again.. look at the size of this dang post..1
