1.6 Free race change [1.6.x MAJOR CHANGES] [Confirmed: Stamina OP]

DeLindsay · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

Stamina being the 1.6 meta, why would one chose other race and why are you making this race OP? Is this some psychological *** you're trying to pull on the players coz for sure it makes me really frustated.

LOLOL that you actually think a +12% Stamina regen makes Wood Elves OP all the sudden. You do realize ofc that 12% of even a good regen value of 1100 is still only 132 Stamina every 2 seconds. It would take you ~24 seconds to regen enough Stamina to cast ONE very cheap Stamina ability (1700 cost). I'm all for Zos offering Race/Faction changes either on the Crown Store or even a 1-time after 1.6 kinda thing but not because the OP thinks Wood Elves are somehow OP now.

EDIT: Read the next post by @Reremnu, I didn't even know that so that makes this post even more lols.

Reremnu · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

EDIT 07/02/2015 MAJOR CHANGE IN WOOD ELF PASSIVE:

Extracted from PTS Patch 1.6.1 Notes

Wood Elf
Y’ffre’s Endurance: The Wood Elf racial skill Exhilaration (formerly Vigor) has been replaced with Y'ffre's Endurance, which grants an increase of 7%/14%/21% to Stamina Regeneration while in combat.

Stamina regen has been MORE THAN DOUBLED (from 3/6/9%) in percentage.

Not doubled. It is already more than 9%.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113161/patch-notes-v1-2-3#latest

Vigor: This Wood Elf racial passive’s effectiveness has been increased by 50%.

It's more like 7% increase in stamina regen. And yes ZOS never cared to update tooltip for this racial skill since June. It shows how much they care about some races.

Gyudan wrote: »

[...]
Bosmer: OP with the buff to stamina regen
[...]
Redguard: OP stamina DPS

Redguard compared to Bosmer has much better stamina regen. For stamina build each his melee attack restores 3% of max stamina with 3s cooldown. Assuming 20k max stmaina with redguard you'd have to do a melee attack each 19th second to have the same stamina regen (unbuffed with equipment) as a Bosmer. Not to mention redguard's have more max stmaina, so it is a flat bonus to max damage from stamina based skills.

supernico · February 2015

-edit-

DeLindsay · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

I haven't play PTS too much but from what I've read people say Stamina is stronger than Magika and in fact OP. So yes, the Wood Elf becomes an OP race. Yes, because of that 12%. Are you one of those guys who believes race doesn't matter?

Well after @Reremnu pointed out that ZoS forgot to update the tool tip for Wood Elves back when they increased that passive in June by 50%, the 12% is actually like he said, more like 7%. If you seriously think that 7% regen makes a Race OP then there's nothing any of us are going to say that will get through to you. /close thread for being useless.

Tamanous · February 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

Racial bonuses are minimal impact. Nothing in those passives would warrant a race change.

They completely changed how a Argonian Nightblade worked in 1.6

Its built around potions, and that is just no longer a thing after the patch.

Correction: your build was built around potions. Not everyone's argonian nightblade was built around potions... Was it an effective argonian nightblade build? Sure. Was it the only effective argonian nightblade build? Of course not. There are plenty of effective nightblade builds that don't rely on any racial passives.

You speak out of ignorance to mathematics. Other's have already used the LOL button and I will simply type it:

LOL

You obviously don't play an Argonian and obviously do not grasp the degree this nerf impacts Argonians ... simply because ZoS was trying to fix potion cool down abuse. Where is their dps mathematical advantage now compared against the numerous +10% main stat racial builds out there? Show me the math or stop this "gut feeling", nonsensical debate.

Gyudan · February 2015

Reremnu wrote: »

supernico wrote: »

EDIT 07/02/2015 MAJOR CHANGE IN WOOD ELF PASSIVE:

Extracted from PTS Patch 1.6.1 Notes

Wood Elf
Y’ffre’s Endurance: The Wood Elf racial skill Exhilaration (formerly Vigor) has been replaced with Y'ffre's Endurance, which grants an increase of 7%/14%/21% to Stamina Regeneration while in combat.

Stamina regen has been MORE THAN DOUBLED (from 3/6/9%) in percentage.

Not doubled. It is already more than 9%.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113161/patch-notes-v1-2-3#latest

Vigor: This Wood Elf racial passive’s effectiveness has been increased by 50%.

It's more like 7% increase in stamina regen. And yes ZOS never cared to update tooltip for this racial skill since June. It shows how much they care about some races.

Gyudan wrote: »

[...]
Bosmer: OP with the buff to stamina regen
[...]
Redguard: OP stamina DPS

Redguard compared to Bosmer has much better stamina regen. For stamina build each his melee attack restores 3% of max stamina with 3s cooldown. Assuming 20k max stmaina with redguard you'd have to do a melee attack each 19th second to have the same stamina regen (unbuffed with equipment) as a Bosmer. Not to mention redguard's have more max stmaina, so it is a flat bonus to max damage from stamina based skills.

The original poster stated that bosmers are OP now. I merely use his statement.

Redguard:
- 10% max stamina
- 9% stamina regeneration
- 3% stamina restored on melee attacks with 5 seconds cooldown

Bosmer:
- 21% stamina regeneration
- 3% max stamina and poison/disease resistance
- 10% damage done while stealthed.

I can't see the full tooltip for redguard (level 19) but the stamina restored on hit seems to have a cooldown of 5 seconds. Bosmers are still a better choice for archers, even in PVE, which was the main reason why I picked that race for my first character.
I don't think that they'll be buffed further, since the Stealthy passive is very strong in Cyrodiil, even if it's useless in group PVE.

Dragath · February 2015

k9mouse wrote: »

Dragath wrote: »

They will update/change all Racials in a future Patch, after that, there should be a free Race Change,
They should also implement a Race Change for Crowns into the Store. Always a good way to make some money.

Just someone who want to make ESO into a WoW clone or a P2W game. No thanks!

Its already happening. If you can't see it now, you are in for a quite big surprise.

supernico · February 2015

Edited the part where I said the race it's OP, even though for some specific builds it might be the right choice.

Regardless, the change is definitelly steep enough to be taken in consideration.

Vahrokh · February 2015

Those who say a 7-8% DPS difference by race is not important: get a clue.

People usually are delusional and pretend to believe that you either get a good player OR a guy with excellent gear OR a good with the best race.
It's not so. True progression guilds can and shall get players with all of the above, in every MMO the top guilds "pick" only the best runners. ESO makes no exception, just look at who are beating the world records. I know some of them, they are far above average good players, have the best gear possible, use the best consummables and come with the best races.
If it's possible to have all of this, then proper guild leaders SHALL demand all of this. It's how you form competitive teams in every field, it's not voodoo science.

There's more.

Whereas tanks and (in a moderate way) healers are few enough to have low-ish competition, DPSes in ESO - like in every MMO - are dime a dozen.
Any trials capable guild might have enough tanks and healers to form a trial group but 40-50% too many DPS and some of them are going to sit out.
Given similar player skill, which is going to take progression run spots?
7% more DPS from player A + 7% more DPS from player B + 7% more DPS from player C + 7% more DPS from player D give a massive advantage at clearing DPS check bosses and in general, the more the DPS the better.
Even at higher level (say Mantikora), having to do one less "cycle" helps to greatly reduce the risk of somebody dying. The first guild kill comes sooner. The guilds ranks get easier to climb as well, speed runs become easier and so on.

Digiman · February 2015

Reremnu wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Eitherway it doesn't matter, if the racial's aren't optimal you can put the skill points you put into those racials into something else.

Clearly you're an RP/casual player. For example Argonian, Nord, Khajiit etc. will always have lower max stats than Imperial Breton etc. , no matter what he or she does.

Clearly your a min/max elitist player who obviously tethers their ego to damage metres as a reason to exist.

You banked on abilities in a newly launched MMO genre to remain constant through out its running time and now that has changed you want ZoS to provide a way to get you out scott free. Vanity at its finest.

Like marrying a partner based on looks that's dried up after 20 years, now your asking a lawyer to get you a free divorce where you get to find a new looker and keep all your things.

Next time build a character you will be willing to put up with no matter what changes come.

Also ZoS doesn't give free respecs because they are required, they give them as a courtesy. Look forward to spending crowns for a race change come march, if they provide the option

Aeratus · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

Reremnu wrote: »

supernico wrote: »

EDIT 07/02/2015 MAJOR CHANGE IN WOOD ELF PASSIVE:

Extracted from PTS Patch 1.6.1 Notes

Wood Elf
Y’ffre’s Endurance: The Wood Elf racial skill Exhilaration (formerly Vigor) has been replaced with Y'ffre's Endurance, which grants an increase of 7%/14%/21% to Stamina Regeneration while in combat.

Stamina regen has been MORE THAN DOUBLED (from 3/6/9%) in percentage.

Not doubled. It is already more than 9%.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113161/patch-notes-v1-2-3#latest

Vigor: This Wood Elf racial passive’s effectiveness has been increased by 50%.

It's more like 7% increase in stamina regen. And yes ZOS never cared to update tooltip for this racial skill since June. It shows how much they care about some races.

Gyudan wrote: »

[...]
Bosmer: OP with the buff to stamina regen
[...]
Redguard: OP stamina DPS

Redguard compared to Bosmer has much better stamina regen. For stamina build each his melee attack restores 3% of max stamina with 3s cooldown. Assuming 20k max stmaina with redguard you'd have to do a melee attack each 19th second to have the same stamina regen (unbuffed with equipment) as a Bosmer. Not to mention redguard's have more max stmaina, so it is a flat bonus to max damage from stamina based skills.

The original poster stated that bosmers are OP now. I merely use his statement.

Redguard:
- 10% max stamina
- 9% stamina regeneration
- 3% stamina restored on melee attacks with 5 seconds cooldown

Bosmer:
- 21% stamina regeneration
- 3% max stamina and poison/disease resistance
- 10% damage done while stealthed.

I can't see the full tooltip for redguard (level 19) but the stamina restored on hit seems to have a cooldown of 5 seconds. Bosmers are still a better choice for archers, even in PVE, which was the main reason why I picked that race for my first character.
I don't think that they'll be buffed further, since the Stealthy passive is very strong in Cyrodiil, even if it's useless in group PVE.

There's no way Bosmer is a better archer than Redguard for PVE. Redguard's 10% max stamina will get you +5% dps. Bosmer's +3% stamina will get you +1.5% dps. Meanwhile, stam regen is likely not a big deal, and might not net you any + dps gain.

On the other hand, Bosmer will be good in PVP, since stamina regen is crucial there, especially in 1v1, and will be a really good tank.

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

Bosmer Master Race

Aeratus · February 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

Racial Comparison (a bit old but still mostly relevant)

Altmer: OP for magicka
Bosmer: OP with the buff to stamina regen
Khajiit: OP with the current crit chances after the 1.6 changes to crit chance
Breton: OP for magicka
Orsimer: a bit weaker because of health regeneration
Redguard: OP stamina DPS
Argonian: a bit weaker with the changes to potions
Dunmer: OP for DK
Nord: OP damage mitigation
Imperial: OP health and stamina pool

Apart from Orcs and Argonians, I think that the current passives are quite balanced and can all be used efficiently by min/maxers.

Imperial - Play as you want
Dunmer - Play as you want

Altmer - Play as a mage
Redguard - Play as a stamina dps

Bosmer - Play as a ganker
Khajiit - Play as a ganker that is worse than Bosmer in ganking and in sustained combat

Argonian - Play as a tripot addict

timidobserver · February 2015

You've got to be realistic. You are not getting a free race change. However, you may get the option to pay for one.

supernico · February 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

You've got to be realistic. You are not getting a free race change. However, you may get the option to pay for one.

You see thats where the problem is with PEOPLE and the world is a *** up place, because we let others decide for us. We are genuinelly against a WELL DESERVED FREE RACE CHANGE but we are really calm and passive if we would be offered to PAY for one. Wich I will pay if I would need a race change, but first I will definitelly fight for a free options because I believe we deserve it.

timidobserver · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

You've got to be realistic. You are not getting a free race change. However, you may get the option to pay for one.

You see thats where the problem is with PEOPLE and the world is a *** up place, because we let others decide for us. We are genuinelly against a WELL DESERVED FREE RACE CHANGE but we are really calm and passive if we would be offered to PAY for one. Wich I will pay if I would need a race change, but first I will definitelly fight for a free options because I believe we deserve it.

Fighting is good when it is worth the time. However, banging your head against the wall of free race changes isn't worth the time, but you should definitely continue banging it if it makes you happy to do so.

darkrozes_rob16_ESO · February 2015

When i created my first toon in Eso, and the highest lvl right now, I didn't pay much attention on the Race. I went with High elf as a Sorcerer. Maybe its the best choice, or maybe Dark elf would have been even better , to run as a vampire for example. Why not make a new toon instead ? Well i have a low vet Night Blade too, but having to do all the dungeons and runing for skyshards and so on, would take a huge amount of time , time that i rather spend on something else. I agree with a Race change, free or not, maybe as some said, quest line and cooldown, that would work too... I think that a race change will allow people to test more builds, and not stick with 1 preset till the end of time...

supernico · February 2015

We're getting close to 1.6 when racial passives are stronger than ever and we know RACE DOES MATTER and it ALWAYS DID and now, in 1.6 actually affects in a crucial way the output, even though on this forum some people are claiming that race doesn't matter, ofcourse we must not take them seriously because they are roleplayers.

Race change or riot!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming.]

supernico · February 2015

Added to OP

EDIT: Some important changes in 1.6.x in wich RACIAL PASSIVES have a critical role for builds (race you may or may not taken in consideration at the time you created a character)
Because of the steep changes in 1.6.x in the game functionality, at this point min/maxing is apparently essential.

- ALL STATS SOFT AND HARD CAPS ENTIRELY REMOVED (hp/magika/stamina/spell damage/weapon damage/armor/spell resistance/etc)

- CHAMPION SYSTEM (Champion system perks that affects the base stats)

- IMPENETRABLE

- LEGERDEMAIN SKILL LINE (Improved Hiding wich at rank IV Reduces the Stamina cost of Sneaking by 40%? (not sure about the value, but high enough to be taken intro consideration))

- ARMOR and SPELL RESISTANCE MITIGATION

- Some SKILLS MORPHS (Changes) that in 1.6 use Stamina instead of Magika in 1.5

Sylvyr · February 2015

Anything that substantially changes the quality of one's character should be looked at with the option of being able to change to something more desirable. Especially if it involves a lot of time already committed to progressing that character and re-rolling would simply be a heavy setback.

What is substantial? Going to get a lot of different answers to that. But the point is, if it's enough to drive players to complain/re-roll/or even leave the game, then the devs really ought to consider something to bandaid the situation.

I think you all that are posting up things like get over it or the changes aren't a big deal are just trying to dictate your perspective over others.

If the option to change race isn't something YOU would use, why do you care if someone else does? (It couldn't be because you're happy with your race and build and don't mind if everyone else is gimped?)

Sylvyr · February 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

Those who say a 7-8% DPS difference by race is not important: get a clue.

People usually are delusional and pretend to believe that you either get a good player OR a guy with excellent gear OR a good with the best race.
It's not so. True progression guilds can and shall get players with all of the above, in every MMO the top guilds "pick" only the best runners. ESO makes no exception, just look at who are beating the world records. I know some of them, they are far above average good players, have the best gear possible, use the best consummables and come with the best races.
If it's possible to have all of this, then proper guild leaders SHALL demand all of this. It's how you form competitive teams in every field, it's not voodoo science.

There's more.

Whereas tanks and (in a moderate way) healers are few enough to have low-ish competition, DPSes in ESO - like in every MMO - are dime a dozen.
Any trials capable guild might have enough tanks and healers to form a trial group but 40-50% too many DPS and some of them are going to sit out.
Given similar player skill, which is going to take progression run spots?
7% more DPS from player A + 7% more DPS from player B + 7% more DPS from player C + 7% more DPS from player D give a massive advantage at clearing DPS check bosses and in general, the more the DPS the better.
Even at higher level (say Mantikora), having to do one less "cycle" helps to greatly reduce the risk of somebody dying. The first guild kill comes sooner. The guilds ranks get easier to climb as well, speed runs become easier and so on.

Leaderboards with top 100 weekly payouts WILL continue to drive min/maxing. As long as only top 100 times get rewards, you'd be seriously wasting time trying to achieve this without putting together an "elite" group. If anyone in the community doesn't want to battle in that competitive arena fine, but to those that do and those that will see a chunk of their edge removed from a racial change, they should get a respec.

Don't want min/maxers in the game?
1) Get rid of trial leaderboards and rewards
2) Get rid of PvP campaign leaderboard and rewards
3) get rid of PvP
even after doing those things you will still have min/maxers so good luck with any ulterior motives using this situation as a means to show them a lesson or whatever, just kinda lame.

Natjur · February 2015

They just need to remove all racial passives.... Problem fixed

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2015

The main thing that bothers me about the change to Bosmer, is that they actually feel more like what a Redguard should be than a Redguard is. Redguards have always had Poison Resistance as long as I can remember (Skyrim 50%, Oblivion 75%, Morrowind 75%). Additionally, while they did not have Disease resistance in Skyrim, Redguards had Disease Resistance in Oblivion (75%), and Morrowind (75%).

What bothers me is that the Redguard is all about Stamina, and yet has what I would consider a now inferior stamina regeneration to the Bosmer. Even worse is that the Redguard is made 100% about stamina in ESO based on the racial perks available, whereas the Bosmer gets bonuses to sneaking, poison and disease. I for one really dislike the change because of this. Redguard deserves poison/disease resistance.

The other thing that bothers me, is that I've always felt Bosmer was a superior race for PVP (and a lot of pve) to his Khajiit counterpart. The Khajiit is unfortunately all over the place with a meager crit bonus, a good sneaking bonus, and health regen. What is the Khajiit about? Nobody knows, maybe sneaky tanking? (Not that that makes any sense whatsoever)

Argonian is overall a good race as well, but given the changes to Bosmer I now believe they likely deserve better bonuses to either healing received or potion magnitude (which by the way doesn't seem to work with all potions).

What I really wish however, would be for the champion system to mollify any racial differences. Champion system should really nearly-nullify any advantage between any race. A Bosmer should be able to at least come very close to the same bonuses that an Altmer has toward lightning damage, lets say. A Nord should be able to get nearly the same benefit toward Fire damage as a Dunmer, and so forth. I don't know if that is how the system works, but that would work toward ameliorating some of the oddities behind the stats.

Iluvrien · February 2015

Sylvyr wrote: »

What is substantial? Going to get a lot of different answers to that. But the point is, if it's enough to drive players to complain/re-roll/or even leave the game, then the devs really ought to consider something to bandaid the situation.

Yes, you are . That's kind of the point. Considering that you probably couldn't change the location of a single trash mob without being likely to trigger a complaint from someone, and the number of possible opinions of what is "substantial" or not I have to ask whether this is a can of worms that ZOS really wants to open.

What objective measure would you suggest? How much change is enough to trigger a free race-change? If the forums could hammer that one our between the posters and make ZOS believe that they wouldn't whinge if it got stuck to? Maybe then we might see this as an option.

I don't believe that you could ever get even a majority, let alone all, forum users to agree on the criteria. The same thing happened with the 30CP furore. People are still simultaneously lauding and decrying the solution now.

Sylvyr wrote: »

If the option to change race isn't something YOU would use, why do you care if someone else does? (It couldn't be because you're happy with your race and build and don't mind if everyone else is gimped?)

Already asked. Already answered. In this thread even. Do you honestly believe that the intentions of the people who argued against this are that petty? That all people are interested in is their own build?

I'm not happy with all aspects of my character and I am still against this. Why? Because every way I try and play this out in my head, considering the possibilities and outcomes, I see it making things worse for the game as a whole. Am I still the big meanie who wants to stop you having fun?

Wizzo91 · February 2015

You will also have to consider, if they have not yet started developing the race change mechanic it could take months before it will go live in the cash shop.

Phinix1 · February 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

The plural form of bonus is bonuses. Not boni. English =/= Latin.

boni is a fun word tho

My Little Boni: Race is Magic!

Seriously, I don't really care if people spend money supporting the further development of the game on something like a race change. However, as others have stated, it shouldn't be a priority to build such a system to facilitate it as there are MUCH more pressing concerns ATM (like releasing new questing/exploration/solo content to go with the CP) to devote dev time to something like this right now.

If/when they do add such a system, being a paid feature should be the tradeoff for taking dev time away from what will always be more important: Content and bug fixes.

Regardless, by the time they do get around to this, if they do, it will have been more than long enough to have simply rerolled, which is what I suggest all of you requesting this just break down and do, if it really is that important (and it may be to some).

Honestly, what ELSE are you going to do for the next x months while you wait for new content?

Knootewoot · February 2015

With the softcap/hardcap removed, does that means also damage can be increased like crazy for mele weapons of you put a load of points in stamina? Or is there still a weapondamage cap?

supernico · February 2015

Knootewoot wrote: »

With the softcap/hardcap removed, does that means also damage can be increased like crazy for mele weapons of you put a load of points in stamina? Or is there still a weapondamage cap?

You are correct.

Knootewoot · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

With the softcap/hardcap removed, does that means also damage can be increased like crazy for mele weapons of you put a load of points in stamina? Or is there still a weapondamage cap?

You are correct.

Darn, there goes my Stamagicka Breton NB. Now i need to choose

(. And since i am Breton, Magicka seems the wisest choice. Well, guess ill throw my bow, daggers, sword and shield and battlesword down the toilet. Only my NB skills i will use now.

supernico · February 2015

Added to OP Dark Elf fire resistance passive nerf
Added Vigor to Important Skill line changes
Added some explanations to the main important skill changes that will happend in 1.6.x

Right now PTS is a joke as it's not even reliable for testing given the broken mechanics so, beside fixes we might expect more game breaking and intrusive changes in 1.6.3.

RACE CHANGE!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming.]