The people have spoken

EsORising · February 2015

I love the changes. The nightblade got screwed with haste and sparks being replaced with crap skills but they also got a lot of other things that made it ok. For every negative there was 2x the positive so I really like 1.6. They addressed a lot of questions and complaints made a bunch of balances. I think people will complain no matter what but ZoS is defintely making the game better x10.

Vordae · February 2015

Most of the problems all stem from the fact they didn't increase ever single stat in the game by the same amount. Stamina, Magicka, Health, stats on gear, enchants and many other things all increased at different rates. If they went back and increased everything by 10% if would fix many of the issues and the issues that still existed we as testers would be able to figure out why much easier. Right now it's hard to see if something is harder or not working correctly cause I don't know if my stats are all *** up or if it's the content.

Spangla · February 2015

All_Bizniz wrote: »

The majority of the PTS-subscription players dislike a majority of the changes. I've spent the day reading a lot of negative feedback from skilled players, guild leaders and casual players that are all trying to understand what your reasoning is behind the new mechanics for the new meta, myself included. I know your reading this also. What are you trying to accomplish and where is your vision and direction for this game in 2-3 years. Its seems to me that you're looking into a forest and not seeing the trees.

You are right op. I know sooo many people who are leaving as a result of this patch. They are ruining such a good game!

Champion system is cool and a good idea but these combat mechanic changes.... dear god. The game is further away from balance than it's ever been with this patch.

Spangla · February 2015

Savitar wrote: »

Of course we, the bulk of the PVE community, dislike the majority of changes.
Not all the changes, but the majority. Especially some of the more thorny new changes with 1.6.1.

For all the PVP'ers out there, I'm more than sure most of the really long time members of the PVP community feel this too, PVP is NOT the end game. As much as the hype and spin would have you believe it to be.
They sold it like it might be, however, real development time speaks volumes and PVP has largely remained stagnant or worse since launch, so, no.. PVP is not the endgame. It's a circle jerk to keep you subbed and lull you into thinking that it was. That's not to say that PVP isn't valid, fun, or engaging. It is very much so. It's just not the endgame content and never will be.

We've been told all this time ramping up to this reveal that:
"We don't want to launch the champion system and have you feel weaker than you do now. We want you to be able to feel just as powerful as you do now and just enhance the experience going forward"
"It should take roughly an hour of experience gaining activity to earn a champion point."

Those of us that have been here for quite awhile, have completed all the quests on our mains and even an alt or two and are satisfied with them, feel a bit stung.

And, in short.. we, the PVE community, have been pooed on yet again.
All for the love of the ADHD console dollar.

I'll just say right now.. if you, ZOS, launch this game on console with 1.6 not radically changed from how it sits now, you will turn the servers off within 2 - 3 years, max, if not sooner. It will just be far too much for most players to actually enjoy.
I didn't say play and progress.. I said enjoy. Vast difference there.

1.6 would have been lovingly and voraciously gobbled up, had it been a balance, class, and race cleanup, instead of what is essentially a nerf to v7-ish levels with huge numbers to BS it down for people who don't care how the game works and want to marvel at their 5K numbers of dps or hps.

Everyone that had read or knew anything that was going on, knew that this would be a revolutionary change to the game, it's mechanics, the playstyles... everything. We just weren't anticipating being smacked down to the floor so hard.

You can spout all the numbers here proving this, point to that spreadsheet there showing that it's not, and crunch numbers forever. It's all about the play feel and play styles and they all feel weak and lacking right now. Even after a readjustment of thought and rotations and knowing that everything is different, changing everything and starting again. They all feel underwhelming and in no way feel better or even the same as we have currently in live.

We wanted Sorc's to come back into their own, be DPS beasts with the rest of us and not be towed around for negates.
We just didn't want to be forced or make it feel like we needed to use pets to achieve that.
We didn't want our negates to be, pardon the pun, negated, due to completely screwing the mechanic of it so utterly to be laughable.

We wanted Templars to reclaim their place in DPS land as something to not be laughed out of a trial or vet dungeon and not be placed on healer or nova duty.
We wanted to have some realm of resource management like the other classes have inherently.

We wanted Nightblades to actually be an effing stealth based class as all your passives and bonuses their in, imply we might be. Not one shot glass cannons with lackluster sustain for all but the best builds, rotation, and gear.
I've seriously never played a class that is so full of window dressing and no substance as nightblades currently are.
Just spending skill points in things that sound great on paper but have no real effect in practice just sucks. Please show the nightblades some real thought out and working love.

We wanted Dragonknights to come back down to earth with the rest of the classes.
We wanted them not to be able to literally do any and everything in the game with an easy mode button.
We wanted the class to not be a class full of melee DOTs for dps, crap buffs, and what is essentially, and entire skill line dedicated to tanking and not much else.

Yes - Precisely. I think they need to stop working and play pvp at a high level to get some perspective.

From my experience - pve works well atm. It just needs more content.

Why the huge combat mechanic changes?

Block casting is a problem in pvp but losing the 360 degree lock mechanic for pvp not pve would fix this surely?

Turelus · February 2015

Not sure OP, I am more excited about 1.6 gameplay than I have been in months previous.

Sure I will be raging at the new Ion Cannon Templers everywhere in PVP but it mostly looks good stuff to me.

Tavore1138 · February 2015

I don't hate everything nor do I like everything.

The dislikes (being a glass half empty kind of person) are around:

- The replacement of 14 levels of quest grind with 1,440 levels of quest grind. Apparently the player base hated the first so much they rewarded us with one thousand times what we hated. Persionally I like a good quest but doing Cadwell's quests 100 times seems like overkill even to me.

- Big problems with stamina pool. Too many methods of maintaining it have been tweaked downwards that it seems like quite a large overall nerf especially when it now has to support additional abilities that used to come out of the magicka pool.

- Reduction in power of items with no explanations (or, one assumes, compensation).

- Unecessary confusion in new numbers where it may well be that overall there is no game wide player nerf but it sure feels like it. If they wanted to avoid that straight x10 would have been fine with an explanation of why some items got x8 or x12. The fact they felt it necessary to confuse us coupled with recent trust issues was always going to lead to a negative reaction from some of us.

- My build |I have been fine tuning since day -5 is severely gimped by this, I'm sure others have benefited and others remain the same. I'm sure there are other viable builds. But I stuck with a DW stam NB from the start even when it was massively broken, it had become very viable in both PvE and PvP and now it appears to be broken once again.

- Gaining a CP is a lot of work and doesn't really give you much back in return compared to the stats/skill points for levelling. Many of the passives are boring and being forced to spend on ones you do not really want is a shame, I liked that idea when I read about it but in reality there are not useful skills for all builds in each tree as they intended).

The likes (for balance and all):

- Some of the crown items seem fun. And with Panther senche finally a per I would not be ashamed to have with me.

- I like the justice stuff even though it needs some tweaking (and maybe a quest line or dailies?).

- Horse skills is a nice idea, it was always a moderate pain switching from my PvP horse to my harvest horse and then forgetting to switch back until I exited a keep and then going back to one of the gates. Now I don't have to. Should satisfy those who truly wanted shared horses while creating delicious QQ from those who really wanted to avoid having to put any effort in

- I still like the 'idea' of CP but they need to be more fluid, more attainable & more obviously beneficial.

The rest:

- Animations vary from improved to the too console-y.
- As expected many bugs - if they listen and iron these out then great.
- Many many balance issues as expected in a revamp - Please for the love of Azura take the time to listen to feedback and do not rush this into live, on balance I like the game and rushing this out in a buggy/unbalanced state could be another nail in the coffin.
- Consider making passives more interesting and varied, consider adding passives as you continue on up the trees beyond 120.

My hope is that they release this to us with a lot of improvement in March and then use the next 4-6 weeks to correct the issues that survive into live.

Bouvin · February 2015

We honestly won't know the full extent of the changes in 1.6 until it's live.

In PvP especially. The small PvP that happens on the PTS is nothing like what happens live when you have skilled groups playing.

I'm just hoping the AoE cap removal doesn't completely kill the servers. My biggest complaint right now about PvP is lag, especially server lag that hits everyone and you can't even fire off skills despite being able to move around. It's been really bad lately.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

"The people have spoken"

They all think that threads with ambiguous title descriptions should just be deleted for the non-content they imply?

When you go to the store, are all the boxes plain brown and you guess what you're buying, or do they actually indicate what might be inside?

It's a cheesy way to get views.

Kragorn · February 2015

All_Bizniz wrote: »

The majority of the PTS-subscription players dislike a majority of the changes. I've spent the day reading a lot of negative feedback from skilled players, guild leaders and casual players that are all trying to understand what your reasoning is behind the new mechanics for the new meta, myself included. I know your reading this also. What are you trying to accomplish and where is your vision and direction for this game in 2-3 years. Its seems to me that you're looking into a forest and not seeing the trees.

I think your confusion stems from not understanding the respective business models:

1) Subscription - long term survival is based on retention more than acquisition after the initial launch, this means keeping your existing players happy is your number one priority so they stay, leading to new players starting due to the 'buzz' the long-timer players generate.

2) B2P/F2P - long term survival is based on churn, where you're prepared and expect to lose long-term players in return for attracting a steady stream on new players who'll pony up for the game and some initial DLC before leaving.

Everything ZOS have done in the last 6 months, especially the lack of new content and their clear intention that it'll approach a year since the last such content, points to (2).

And no, 1.6 has no real new content. Justice is a game mechanic and doesn't expand the world by anything significant, Champion Points are a game mechanic and pretty trivial to develop (no, I'm not a developer of game, yes I am a developer of software and all CSes amount to is stat manipulation, ie. simple math).

Expect the first DLC to appear when ZOS think they're over the [hoped for] initial surge of new sales and a boost is needed to revenues. Expect all future DLC to be driven by revenue stream analysis by bean counters at Zenimax Media, ZOS' overlords.

Xexpo · February 2015

Savitar wrote: »

Of course we, the bulk of the PVE community, dislike the majority of changes.
Not all the changes, but the majority. Especially some of the more thorny new changes with 1.6.1.

For all the PVP'ers out there, I'm more than sure most of the really long time members of the PVP community feel this too, PVP is NOT the end game. As much as the hype and spin would have you believe it to be.
They sold it like it might be, however, real development time speaks volumes and PVP has largely remained stagnant or worse since launch, so, no.. PVP is not the endgame. It's a circle jerk to keep you subbed and lull you into thinking that it was. That's not to say that PVP isn't valid, fun, or engaging. It is very much so. It's just not the endgame content and never will be.

We've been told all this time ramping up to this reveal that:
"We don't want to launch the champion system and have you feel weaker than you do now. We want you to be able to feel just as powerful as you do now and just enhance the experience going forward"
"It should take roughly an hour of experience gaining activity to earn a champion point."

Those of us that have been here for quite awhile, have completed all the quests on our mains and even an alt or two and are satisfied with them, feel a bit stung.

And, in short.. we, the PVE community, have been pooed on yet again.
All for the love of the ADHD console dollar.

I'll just say right now.. if you, ZOS, launch this game on console with 1.6 not radically changed from how it sits now, you will turn the servers off within 2 - 3 years, max, if not sooner. It will just be far too much for most players to actually enjoy.
I didn't say play and progress.. I said enjoy. Vast difference there.

1.6 would have been lovingly and voraciously gobbled up, had it been a balance, class, and race cleanup, instead of what is essentially a nerf to v7-ish levels with huge numbers to BS it down for people who don't care how the game works and want to marvel at their 5K numbers of dps or hps.

Everyone that had read or knew anything that was going on, knew that this would be a revolutionary change to the game, it's mechanics, the playstyles... everything. We just weren't anticipating being smacked down to the floor so hard.

You can spout all the numbers here proving this, point to that spreadsheet there showing that it's not, and crunch numbers forever. It's all about the play feel and play styles and they all feel weak and lacking right now. Even after a readjustment of thought and rotations and knowing that everything is different, changing everything and starting again. They all feel underwhelming and in no way feel better or even the same as we have currently in live.

We wanted Sorc's to come back into their own, be DPS beasts with the rest of us and not be towed around for negates.
We just didn't want to be forced or make it feel like we needed to use pets to achieve that.
We didn't want our negates to be, pardon the pun, negated, due to completely screwing the mechanic of it so utterly to be laughable.

We wanted Templars to reclaim their place in DPS land as something to not be laughed out of a trial or vet dungeon and not be placed on healer or nova duty.
We wanted to have some realm of resource management like the other classes have inherently.

We wanted Nightblades to actually be an effing stealth based class as all your passives and bonuses their in, imply we might be. Not one shot glass cannons with lackluster sustain for all but the best builds, rotation, and gear.
I've seriously never played a class that is so full of window dressing and no substance as nightblades currently are.
Just spending skill points in things that sound great on paper but have no real effect in practice just sucks. Please show the nightblades some real thought out and working love.

We wanted Dragonknights to come back down to earth with the rest of the classes.
We wanted them not to be able to literally do any and everything in the game with an easy mode button.
We wanted the class to not be a class full of melee DOTs for dps, crap buffs, and what is essentially, and entire skill line dedicated to tanking and not much else.

well said Sav

(maybe this should replace the OP

)

c0rp · February 2015

Sorry, but none of the people DUELING on the PTS have spoken for me.

Decimus_Rex · February 2015

Zenimax Online: Interoffice Memo

Training Video 101:

Subtitle: Misdirection

http://youtu.be/LoUSO_Mj1TQ

Show daily until March 17th.

Have a productive day and keep up the good work

Iselin · February 2015

A person named "the people" has spoken... and he got 10 agrees, 1 awesome and 41 LOLs,

asteldian · February 2015

The people are whiny buggers. 1.6 is by no means perfect and brings change, I for one can barely be bothered to play on live while waiting for this to be released.
All current content can be completed, so nothing crippling has occurred. People need to adjust, that's all. Oh, and bow needs serious work.

WatchYourSixx · February 2015

I'd just like to point out that VR14 gaining 70 cp, will be more cp than one can earn from grinding quests from vr 1 to 14. The only way you could possibly earn more cp from that quest grind is if you had enlightenment every time. Which, based on how enlightenment works, it would take several months to get to VR14 with enlightenment ALL the time.

Dredlord · February 2015

All_Bizniz wrote: »

The majority of the PTS-subscription players dislike a majority of the changes. I've spent the day reading a lot of negative feedback from skilled players, guild leaders and casual players that are all trying to understand what your reasoning is behind the new mechanics for the new meta, myself included. I know your reading this also. What are you trying to accomplish and where is your vision and direction for this game in 2-3 years. Its seems to me that you're looking into a forest and not seeing the trees.

or rather they can't see the forest because there are a bunch of trees in the way?