The people have spoken

All_Bizniz

The majority of the PTS-subscription players dislike a majority of the changes. I've spent the day reading a lot of negative feedback from skilled players, guild leaders and casual players that are all trying to understand what your reasoning is behind the new mechanics for the new meta, myself included. I know your reading this also. What are you trying to accomplish and where is your vision and direction for this game in 2-3 years. Its seems to me that you're looking into a forest and not seeing the trees.

DanielMaxwell

you do realize they are coding this with their eyes shut .
right ?

All_Bizniz

That would make sense about the changes then

AriBoh

Dunno man I've just been pvp-ing for the longest stretch I can remember without rage quiting in.... rage. Sure things need shifted a bit here or there (maybe a good shunt in some cases) but I had fun tonight when I've been forcing myself lately.

LtCrunch

Judging by all of the LOL's you've already received I think it's safe to say you're in the minority.

Alphashado

All_Bizniz wrote: »

The majority of the PTS-subscription players dislike a majority of the changes. I've spent the day reading a lot of negative feedback.....

From the same 10 people. Not sure where you get majority from.

All_Bizniz

Most of the comments are pretty negative. Just my grasp of reading and comprehension has lead me to that conclusion. Plus my guild mates and in game friends are also grousing about it. Just saying.

Sarielis

I'm actually really excited for 1.6 had a blast today on the pts

All_Bizniz

You seem to be one of a few. NB or Sorc might I ask?

Alphashado

All_Bizniz wrote: »

Most of the comments are pretty negative. Just my grasp of reading and comprehension has lead me to that conclusion. Plus my guild mates and in game friends are also grousing about it. Just saying.

It is very easy at first glance to dislike the changes. First, because people dislike change to begin with. Second, because at first glance it seems like a general nerf. Third, because the CP gain vs XP seems high. And Fourth because it looks like a giant grind.

People are in a panic w/o understanding the details, and there are a select few that have been throwing gas on the fire every chance they get with comments like "this is going to kill the game" or "they are taking away our progress".

I would love to go into detail, but honestly I'm just tired of doing so. Suffice it to say that for every build that was nerfed,, another one is popping up to replace it that's just as good if not better. The stats were not nerfed, they were reconfigured to match the critters. Health conversions between player and monster are on par with each other. The entire notion that this is a blanket nerf has been disproven several times by several people using pictures, videos, and statistics.

There are some legit concerns though and I agree with a few of them.
1. 400k XP seems like alot of xp for 1CP (at this point)
2. Vet Ranks need to go sooner than later now. VR coupled with CP makes for a tedious grind.
3. People with maxed (VR14) characters are going to have to grind mobs in order to gain CP as fast as people that still have a bunch of quests to do. Or they will have to level up an alternate character, and many people don't like that idea.

But all in all I like the changes. I love the justice system, the new animations, the pet UI and 200 resource stacks now adding considerable storage space ect. There are a lot of neat changes that are getting overlooked in the mayhem surrounding the stat conversion.

It's a big change and it will take time for people to adjust. There will be tweaks and changes and mistakes. That's just part of the process. We can only hope that ZoS is on the ball, but I believe they will be because they want their consoles to launch w/o a hitch. (Which is a topic for a different discussion)

Savitar

Of course we, the bulk of the PVE community, dislike the majority of changes.
Not all the changes, but the majority. Especially some of the more thorny new changes with 1.6.1.

For all the PVP'ers out there, I'm more than sure most of the really long time members of the PVP community feel this too, PVP is NOT the end game. As much as the hype and spin would have you believe it to be.
They sold it like it might be, however, real development time speaks volumes and PVP has largely remained stagnant or worse since launch, so, no.. PVP is not the endgame. It's a circle jerk to keep you subbed and lull you into thinking that it was. That's not to say that PVP isn't valid, fun, or engaging. It is very much so. It's just not the endgame content and never will be.

We've been told all this time ramping up to this reveal that:
"We don't want to launch the champion system and have you feel weaker than you do now. We want you to be able to feel just as powerful as you do now and just enhance the experience going forward"
"It should take roughly an hour of experience gaining activity to earn a champion point."

Those of us that have been here for quite awhile, have completed all the quests on our mains and even an alt or two and are satisfied with them, feel a bit stung.

And, in short.. we, the PVE community, have been pooed on yet again.
All for the love of the ADHD console dollar.

I'll just say right now.. if you, ZOS, launch this game on console with 1.6 not radically changed from how it sits now, you will turn the servers off within 2 - 3 years, max, if not sooner. It will just be far too much for most players to actually enjoy.
I didn't say play and progress.. I said enjoy. Vast difference there.

1.6 would have been lovingly and voraciously gobbled up, had it been a balance, class, and race cleanup, instead of what is essentially a nerf to v7-ish levels with huge numbers to BS it down for people who don't care how the game works and want to marvel at their 5K numbers of dps or hps.

Everyone that had read or knew anything that was going on, knew that this would be a revolutionary change to the game, it's mechanics, the playstyles... everything. We just weren't anticipating being smacked down to the floor so hard.

You can spout all the numbers here proving this, point to that spreadsheet there showing that it's not, and crunch numbers forever. It's all about the play feel and play styles and they all feel weak and lacking right now. Even after a readjustment of thought and rotations and knowing that everything is different, changing everything and starting again. They all feel underwhelming and in no way feel better or even the same as we have currently in live.

We wanted Sorc's to come back into their own, be DPS beasts with the rest of us and not be towed around for negates.
We just didn't want to be forced or make it feel like we needed to use pets to achieve that.
We didn't want our negates to be, pardon the pun, negated, due to completely screwing the mechanic of it so utterly to be laughable.

We wanted Templars to reclaim their place in DPS land as something to not be laughed out of a trial or vet dungeon and not be placed on healer or nova duty.
We wanted to have some realm of resource management like the other classes have inherently.

We wanted Nightblades to actually be an effing stealth based class as all your passives and bonuses their in, imply we might be. Not one shot glass cannons with lackluster sustain for all but the best builds, rotation, and gear.
I've seriously never played a class that is so full of window dressing and no substance as nightblades currently are.
Just spending skill points in things that sound great on paper but have no real effect in practice just sucks. Please show the nightblades some real thought out and working love.

We wanted Dragonknights to come back down to earth with the rest of the classes.
We wanted them not to be able to literally do any and everything in the game with an easy mode button.
We wanted the class to not be a class full of melee DOTs for dps, crap buffs, and what is essentially, and entire skill line dedicated to tanking and not much else.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Alphashado wrote: »

There are some legit concerns though and I agree with a few of them.
1. 400k XP seems like alot of xp for 1CP (at this point)
2. Vet Ranks need to go sooner than later now. VR coupled with CP makes for a tedious grind.
3. People with maxed (VR14) characters are going to have to grind mobs in order to gain CP as fast as people that still have a bunch of quests to do. Or they will have to level up an alternate character, and many people don't like that idea.

But all in all I like the changes. I love the justice system, the new animations, the pet UI and 200 resource stacks now adding considerable storage space ect. There are a lot of neat changes that are getting overlooked in the mayhem surrounding the stat conversion.

See the first part is WAY more important than the second part. And I agree with both. The CP grind is a HUGE problem and the entire stat changing and changes to skills are based around the CP system, that is 1.6. The justice system is nice, but not expansive. new animations and convenience like 200 stacks are great, but if the progression is a problem, that is a MASSIVE problem for a game.

Alphashado

The only major concern I agree with is the slow rate at which we are earning CP. Especially with a maxed character that has very few quests and objectives to complete.

But in regards to the nerfs, I just don't see it. I hear Templars were nerfed, so I jumped on my V14 Templar, did some research, changed my build around discovered I was kicking ass again. I heard DKs were nerfed so I jumped on my VR5 DK, did some research, changed a few skills around and started kicking ass with him as well. I heard NBs were nerfed, so I got on my V2 NB, did some research, changed a few skills around and ended up finding a DW build that is absolutely destroying everything. I don't have a Sorc high enough to tinker with.

The only nerf I haven't found a way out of yet is my NB stamina Bow build. It's gimped and I am still testing things to get it back up.

People are freaking out about a disparity in the champion system between new players and future vet players and I gotta say that I don't see a major issue there either. All of the really powerful passives like +12% crit are only 30 pts up into the tree. The 75 pt passives are nothing special, and the 120 pt passives are basically fluff.

The only major disparity will be attributes. Even with diminishing returns, I believe there will be a 55% difference from zero-max CP. But that can be changed and tweaked. All of this can and will be changed and tweaked. It's the nature of the beast.

I just don't see anything warranting the mass panic.

lathbury

All_Bizniz wrote: »

You seem to be one of a few. NB or Sorc might I ask?

probably magika nb you think we'd be used to it by now. however could be a hybrid build those haven't worked since ever and I would really like them to.

Sarousse

Nearly 100% of my friendlist (and it's huge) love the changes so far, and it's basically hardcore pvp players.

I'm laughing so hard at all those skilless crying light armor DKs that won't be able to play anymore.

Go Zenimax, put the 1.6 live it's about time.

All_Bizniz

LOL ^^ this guy apparently has a ax
to grind

Celless

tldr: I'm disagreeing with the opening post. Read on if you care to see why or don't (and by you, I don't mean you specifically OP, just the people that you may be trying to represent and even the ones you're not).

extended: First, I dislike your thread title. I like the adjustments overall. Players adapt, those that are pleased, may not be vocal. Those that have praise for the patch tend to get xyr threads turned into a negative thread.

The forums and zone chat seem to places to complain. Let's take some things I've seen over this last week.

Someone says they can't solo six wasps in Craglorn on a template sorceror with a magicka build and several people start agreeing. That couldn't be true could it? I come with a template sorceror and I'm soloing the wasps on the first try with pets, then try again without pets. Then try a stamina 2H build because someone said they couldn't do it that now that Surge is nerfed.

And again how unequipped with knowledge players are (myself included at times). Someone this week asks, "I need stuff crafted," and another responds, "EU characters were copied to the PTS, see if they can help." People respond, "No, this is NA," and the next few set of responses had people agreeing or saying the same. Maybe EU characters weren't copied and that one is misinformed. Or maybe we have a few trolls or uninformed individuals about the EU character copy. They all seemed textually adamant that the one person was wrong.

Or the confusion about the critical rating unlocks in the Champion tree. Do people feel like they HAVE to grind 20 CPs for *that*? At a minimum, that's at least a 1% crit value update on your UI. I suspect more of you will be disappointed after ZOS says that Critical value and Critical rating are not the same thing. I'll make a post on this later if I want to.

Now this next one is my personal preference. The Champion System. Some people are like, "I HAVE to grind these points to get back to the same power level that I was before or else I can't play and I'll be pissed." Are you doing that for PvE? I don't plan to. I'm going to group with the people who are still playing the rest of the game and perhaps enjoying it the way that I do. Will you surpass me statiscally? Yeah. Will you enjoy the game as much as I am? I certainly hope so, you grinded all those points.

Cutting this post off, because I've written several more pages and really... it's time for me to play.

Joejudas

Thanks for posting this OP. Alot of us are upset with 1.6, even though the ZOS defense squad can't see it.

All_Bizniz

It seems to me that Sorcerers, in all their power now, and the NB's who's fear is fearing 6 people are loving this patch. Everyone else is playing catch up to where they were. 70 CP's ..............really? ...........out of a over 900... are you kidding me? That is all the loyal subscribers are getting for being here since launch.... ffs... I was there for the 'great frame rate drop of 2014' and still paid my sub... every month. And now they are cheapening my work i put in in this game to 70 CP's? wow Insulted am I

Snit

I like the majority of the changes

Not all of them, not by any means. There are some class balance and combat mechanics issues that need significant work. But there's a ton to like in 1.6, too.

Gyudan

Snit wrote: »

I like the majority of the changes

Not all of them, not by any means. There are some class balance and combat mechanics issues that need significant work. But there's a ton to like in 1.6, too.

Same here. I think that OP's 17 LOLs (I didn't even put one) show that the people have indeed spoken.

ArcanusMagus

All_Bizniz wrote: »

The majority of the PTS-subscription players dislike a majority of the changes. I've spent the day reading a lot of negative feedback from skilled players, guild leaders and casual players that are all trying to understand what your reasoning is behind the new mechanics for the new meta, myself included. I know your reading this also. What are you trying to accomplish and where is your vision and direction for this game in 2-3 years. Its seems to me that you're looking into a forest and not seeing the trees.

Sounds like a wasted day to me.

Joejudas

So out of the 20 people who pressed that silly LOL button....how many put forward an arguement against the opinion of the OP ? And how many of those people actually logged in and tested on the PTS ? I did test it and I think it's awful for end game PvE folks.

Celless

Joejudas is one of those folks I was talking about in terms of turning even a positive or neutral thread into a negative one. Welcome to the party my LOL friend.

edit: To note, I will NEVER LOL your post unless it actually made me laugh or chuckle. I don't use it as a disagree button.

Yusuf

Savitar wrote: »

Of course we, the bulk of the PVE community, dislike the majority of changes.
Not all the changes, but the majority. Especially some of the more thorny new changes with 1.6.1.

For all the PVP'ers out there, I'm more than sure most of the really long time members of the PVP community feel this too, PVP is NOT the end game. As much as the hype and spin would have you believe it to be.
They sold it like it might be, however, real development time speaks volumes and PVP has largely remained stagnant or worse since launch, so, no.. PVP is not the endgame. It's a circle jerk to keep you subbed and lull you into thinking that it was. That's not to say that PVP isn't valid, fun, or engaging. It is very much so. It's just not the endgame content and never will be.

We've been told all this time ramping up to this reveal that:
"We don't want to launch the champion system and have you feel weaker than you do now. We want you to be able to feel just as powerful as you do now and just enhance the experience going forward"
"It should take roughly an hour of experience gaining activity to earn a champion point."

Those of us that have been here for quite awhile, have completed all the quests on our mains and even an alt or two and are satisfied with them, feel a bit stung.

And, in short.. we, the PVE community, have been pooed on yet again.
All for the love of the ADHD console dollar.

I'll just say right now.. if you, ZOS, launch this game on console with 1.6 not radically changed from how it sits now, you will turn the servers off within 2 - 3 years, max, if not sooner. It will just be far too much for most players to actually enjoy.
I didn't say play and progress.. I said enjoy. Vast difference there.

1.6 would have been lovingly and voraciously gobbled up, had it been a balance, class, and race cleanup, instead of what is essentially a nerf to v7-ish levels with huge numbers to BS it down for people who don't care how the game works and want to marvel at their 5K numbers of dps or hps.

Everyone that had read or knew anything that was going on, knew that this would be a revolutionary change to the game, it's mechanics, the playstyles... everything. We just weren't anticipating being smacked down to the floor so hard.

You can spout all the numbers here proving this, point to that spreadsheet there showing that it's not, and crunch numbers forever. It's all about the play feel and play styles and they all feel weak and lacking right now. Even after a readjustment of thought and rotations and knowing that everything is different, changing everything and starting again. They all feel underwhelming and in no way feel better or even the same as we have currently in live.

We wanted Sorc's to come back into their own, be DPS beasts with the rest of us and not be towed around for negates.
We just didn't want to be forced or make it feel like we needed to use pets to achieve that.
We didn't want our negates to be, pardon the pun, negated, due to completely screwing the mechanic of it so utterly to be laughable.

We wanted Templars to reclaim their place in DPS land as something to not be laughed out of a trial or vet dungeon and not be placed on healer or nova duty.
We wanted to have some realm of resource management like the other classes have inherently.

We wanted Nightblades to actually be an effing stealth based class as all your passives and bonuses their in, imply we might be. Not one shot glass cannons with lackluster sustain for all but the best builds, rotation, and gear.
I've seriously never played a class that is so full of window dressing and no substance as nightblades currently are.
Just spending skill points in things that sound great on paper but have no real effect in practice just sucks. Please show the nightblades some real thought out and working love.

We wanted Dragonknights to come back down to earth with the rest of the classes.
We wanted them not to be able to literally do any and everything in the game with an easy mode button.
We wanted the class to not be a class full of melee DOTs for dps, crap buffs, and what is essentially, and entire skill line dedicated to tanking and not much else.

Quoting 'cause there's no way i could've said it any better.

Joejudas

Celless wrote: »

Joejudas is one of those folks I was talking about in terms of turning even a positive or neutral thread into a negative one. Welcome to the party my LOL friend.

edit: To note, I will NEVER LOL your post unless it actually made me laugh or chuckle. I don't use it as a disagree button.

Do you have anything to agree/disagree with the OP about ?

Shuichi

This. . . made. . .my. . .day. Most of the players enjoying the patch are too busy enjoying it and submitting actual feedback to the devs instead of doing whatever this post was supposed to do.

WraithAzraiel

I for one loved playing my NB on the PTS until they erased him so the EU players could have a turn. .

Oughash

Savitar wrote: »

Of course we, the bulk of the PVE community, dislike the majority of changes.
Not all the changes, but the majority. Especially some of the more thorny new changes with 1.6.1.

For all the PVP'ers out there, I'm more than sure most of the really long time members of the PVP community feel this too, PVP is NOT the end game. As much as the hype and spin would have you believe it to be.
They sold it like it might be, however, real development time speaks volumes and PVP has largely remained stagnant or worse since launch, so, no.. PVP is not the endgame. It's a circle jerk to keep you subbed and lull you into thinking that it was. That's not to say that PVP isn't valid, fun, or engaging. It is very much so. It's just not the endgame content and never will be.

We've been told all this time ramping up to this reveal that:
"We don't want to launch the champion system and have you feel weaker than you do now. We want you to be able to feel just as powerful as you do now and just enhance the experience going forward"
"It should take roughly an hour of experience gaining activity to earn a champion point."

Those of us that have been here for quite awhile, have completed all the quests on our mains and even an alt or two and are satisfied with them, feel a bit stung.

And, in short.. we, the PVE community, have been pooed on yet again.
All for the love of the ADHD console dollar.

I'll just say right now.. if you, ZOS, launch this game on console with 1.6 not radically changed from how it sits now, you will turn the servers off within 2 - 3 years, max, if not sooner. It will just be far too much for most players to actually enjoy.
I didn't say play and progress.. I said enjoy. Vast difference there.

1.6 would have been lovingly and voraciously gobbled up, had it been a balance, class, and race cleanup, instead of what is essentially a nerf to v7-ish levels with huge numbers to BS it down for people who don't care how the game works and want to marvel at their 5K numbers of dps or hps.

Everyone that had read or knew anything that was going on, knew that this would be a revolutionary change to the game, it's mechanics, the playstyles... everything. We just weren't anticipating being smacked down to the floor so hard.

You can spout all the numbers here proving this, point to that spreadsheet there showing that it's not, and crunch numbers forever. It's all about the play feel and play styles and they all feel weak and lacking right now. Even after a readjustment of thought and rotations and knowing that everything is different, changing everything and starting again. They all feel underwhelming and in no way feel better or even the same as we have currently in live.

We wanted Sorc's to come back into their own, be DPS beasts with the rest of us and not be towed around for negates.
We just didn't want to be forced or make it feel like we needed to use pets to achieve that.
We didn't want our negates to be, pardon the pun, negated, due to completely screwing the mechanic of it so utterly to be laughable.

We wanted Templars to reclaim their place in DPS land as something to not be laughed out of a trial or vet dungeon and not be placed on healer or nova duty.
We wanted to have some realm of resource management like the other classes have inherently.

We wanted Nightblades to actually be an effing stealth based class as all your passives and bonuses their in, imply we might be. Not one shot glass cannons with lackluster sustain for all but the best builds, rotation, and gear.
I've seriously never played a class that is so full of window dressing and no substance as nightblades currently are.
Just spending skill points in things that sound great on paper but have no real effect in practice just sucks. Please show the nightblades some real thought out and working love.

We wanted Dragonknights to come back down to earth with the rest of the classes.
We wanted them not to be able to literally do any and everything in the game with an easy mode button.
We wanted the class to not be a class full of melee DOTs for dps, crap buffs, and what is essentially, and entire skill line dedicated to tanking and not much else.

Great post. I'm one of the PvPers, and spend little time in PvE land: totally agree that PvP has become a stagnant circle jerk. There have been zero additions to cyrodiil -- the coolest damn zone in the game -- since day one. This game has no vision or direction. Which is a shame.

Dracane

I'm liking 1.6 so far. If it stays like this, I'm happy.
But 1.6 will remain on the PTS for a long time. So there is a lot of time to make good changes (like in 1.6.1 patch) or negative changes.

We'll see.

Cody

Only bad thing is the damage shield issue, which ZOS will fix if they want their PvP to live on.