Vampires - It's not enough

kieso · February 2015

vampires need a huge rework; their abilities are in a weird spot where they're either lackluster or borderline OP. Even the stages thing needs to be redone.

Roechacca · February 2015

I'll say this about Vampires . The need to feed every 30 minutes to keep stage one is too short . Vampires would wipe out Cyrodiil's population in a month in order to stay stage 1 . I also don't understand how stage 4 has become the preferred state in PVP . Every lore I've read , vampires are strongest after feeding .

MADshadowman · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

I'll say this about Vampires . The need to feed every 30 minutes to keep stage one is too short . Vampires would wipe out Cyrodiil's population in a month in order to stay stage 1 . I also don't understand how stage 4 has become the preferred state in PVP . Every lore I've read , vampires are strongest after feeding .

Well, they technically are stronger after feeding, cause they have more health regen, but the ultimate is more expensive, so people prefer to have a cheaper ultimate and therefor sacificing most of their health regen. And the constant feeding to stay stage 1 is just not possible in cyrodiil, where you can easily spend an hour defending a keep. So this really needs to be adjusted.

Emencie · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Werewolf

that's because you can't spam it. But imagine 20 werewolves jumping you and tell me that this is not a problem.

Um...
What PvP are you playing?
What game are you playing?
What werewolves are you seeing jumping anything in PvP?

Am I solo vs these 20? Are they bad players? Well If they swapped to WW form they are. So what would happen? On my vamp DK, between batswarm talons and standard, I would kill them all. Hell they are all melee at that point and cant heal for crap!

Is this a trick question?
You know there is a reason you see tons of vampires in PvP and only human form werewolves, right? It's because werewolves are simply not good for all the reasons people have told you in this thread. Trust me werewolves would rather have powers they can use outside of their ultimate form, and have their drawbacks 100% of the time because it would still be more powerful than a form you can turn into that makes you weaker... Weaker!

Weaker than if you just stayed human form.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you not aware of how amazing a build becomes once you become vampire? There is a reason it is twilight online in pvp.......dont like weakness to fire? Cool story bro, put on fire resistance, problem solved >_<

Your ultimate is already devastating, no point in being in anything except stage 4. The mist form?! GTFO! lol that thing is the most annoying escape skill ever. Vampires are fine where they are. If anything, and this is just MY opinion, I say penalize them far worse than what they have right now. Just so the twinkle freaks in pvp go away.

The sheer power being a vampire gives should come at a steep cost sorry.

How the hell is it devastating? Every time I use Devouring Swarm in PvP I get mowed down immediately.

It's only devastating when it's used by a light armor wearing, stick wielding DK or Sorc with ridiculous amounts of Ultimate Generation and they can spam it over and over again in the space of a few seconds.

So because 1-3 build styles that are been the FotM for months now, it's devastating?

You can't be a medium armor, dual wield/bow magicka Nightblade and spam Devouring Swarm near enough for it to be considered "Devastating" not nearly as much as a DK or Sorc.

So what you REALLY mean to say, is that FotM builds that utilize an Ultimate that is the cheapest in terms of cost per damage potential is concerned are "Devastating" and not just a single skill line or single Ultimate.

I bet if Negate Magic or Standard of Might had a health drain people would be throwing that around more than Devouring Swarm.

As it stands, it's the only Ultimate besides Soul Tether that has a health drain attached to it.

I'll say it again, Vampire has never been the problem. Broken-ass amounts of Ultimate Generation made possible by the combination of certain builds and certain classes has always allowed for the abuse of skills. Regardless of what those skills are.

Vampire has just been the most obvious. You're more likely to notice a cloud of bats than you are any other Ultimate going off.

Thankfully all this will be changing with 1.6

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Sarru wrote: »

This game is already Twilight Online. I think both vamp and WW should be nerfed.

I hear you on that . However , I think if they added more "special effects" , not necessarily new abilities for Vampire , those players that enjoy the class for RP would feel more immersed in their characters . Instead of asking for more abilities that can upset balance , I would suggest asking for cosmetic enhancements and special emotes .

I think we need a Dawnguard line, that like Vamp & WW you can only have if you're not Vamp or WW.

This would add a little more "mix" and break up the "Twilight Online" feel..

I've agreed with this more than a few times.

Sometimes, some chucklehead will get a wild hair up their rear end and go off on a tangent about how Vampires and Werewolves shouldn't have access to the Fighter's Guild line.

The Fighter's Guild aren't exclusively holy warriors devout in their pursuit of Vampires and Werewolves. They hunt monsters. For fame and glory. They clear dungeons. For fame and glory. They're fighting the Daedra and supporting the war effort against Molag Bal.

I'm almost positive that somewhere at least 1 of their NPC members is a Vampire. Another's a werewolf. Bound to be.

Offering a Dawnguard or Light of Stendarr or <Insert another of the 8 here> Warrior skill line devoted to the hunting and killing of Vampire's and Werewolves with it's own quest line and skill bar with passives similar to the bonuses received from either existing skill line will give more of a choice.

Vampire and Werewolf become less of a necessity and more of a playstyle choice.

Boom, balance.

Aevric · February 2015

I still say that ALL vampire characters and ALL characters in werewolf form should be attacked on sight by town/city/camp guards.
The coding is in place now, just mark those characters with the flag from the justice system that sets all guards after them.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Emencie wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Werewolf

that's because you can't spam it. But imagine 20 werewolves jumping you and tell me that this is not a problem.

Um...
What PvP are you playing?
What game are you playing?
What werewolves are you seeing jumping anything in PvP?

Am I solo vs these 20? Are they bad players? Well If they swapped to WW form they are. So what would happen? On my vamp DK, between batswarm talons and standard, I would kill them all. Hell they are all melee at that point and cant heal for crap!

Is this a trick question?
You know there is a reason you see tons of vampires in PvP and only human form werewolves, right? It's because werewolves are simply not good for all the reasons people have told you in this thread. Trust me werewolves would rather have powers they can use outside of their ultimate form, and have their drawbacks 100% of the time because it would still be more powerful than a form you can turn into that makes you weaker... Weaker!

Weaker than if you just stayed human form.

Wow, i said "imagine" and you actually did it. Well, good job.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The way I see it, the reason vamps have only a few skills and werewolves more is that vamps get to keep using their other skills, while for doggies its either human form + other skills -OR- werewolf form + werewolf skills. So they needed enough skills in WW form to fill their slots...
So, no reason for vamps to get skillbar-envy here...

Skill bar envy...I haz it. LOL I FEEL like there should be enough vamp skills to fully fill out your bar and they should really be worthwhile. As it is, I use NONE of my vamp skills in PvP because for my Sorc there are far too many better options. And for PvE all I typically use from the vamp line is Drain. So even what little we DID get...is pretty crappy. I WANT to be able to go all vamp, all the time. I DON'T want to play a Sorc with a couple "vampy" spells and a bad skin condition and weakness to fire. But that's what I have.

Not to mention that werewolves get third bar to use with theirs.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

Aevric wrote: »

I still say that ALL vampire characters and ALL characters in werewolf form should be attacked on sight by town/city/camp guards.
The coding is in place now, just mark those characters with the flag from the justice system that sets all guards after them.

Vampires in Stage 3 and 4? Sure. Werewolves in moonskin? Sure.

Just "Vampires" in general, regardless of feeding stage? Abso-[snip]-lutely not.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Stravokov · February 2015

i agree with the Original Poster,

Vampires are very broken presently. the active skills (aside from Bat Swarm) are pretty much nerfed into a useless state as the OP has pointed out. those skills are useless, there is no point to be in stage 4 anymore.

now with the nerf to our feeding, there is nothing really that makes us viable (as a Skill line) in pvp anymore IMO. if it was just the stun that the player could break out of and allow the feeding to continue, i would be ok with that. but i doubt that is how it is functioning on PTS.

Vampires should be weaker in the day, and more powerful at night/indoors. nothing in their approach at the Vampire Skill tree supports this other than the Morph for Drain essence which is a useless skill in PVP.

it seems ZOS only fixes (and Nerfs) something when enough people *** about it, rather than looking to see if there is a real imbalanced problem. this is the main reasons why sooooooo many players have lost faith in the company, because they listen to the whiner babies and nothing is safe from being nerfed into a complete useless state.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Aevric wrote: »

I still say that ALL vampire characters and ALL characters in werewolf form should be attacked on sight by town/city/camp guards.
The coding is in place now, just mark those characters with the flag from the justice system that sets all guards after them.

Well i have to disagree here.

If a player in human form enters a city, how would anybody know it's a werewolf unless he's morphing into ww form inside the city?

If i'm wearing a full helmet as a vamp, how would they know i'm a vampire? They can't.

And this one thing is very important: A stage 4 vampire is no threat to anyone, cause it means he doesn't feed on anyone. I personally would be more afraid of a stage 1 vampire, cause that means he just fed on someone and will probably do it again sometime soon.

MornaBaine · February 2015

Other skills vampires could have to fill out their bar:
Summon Giant Bat: This pet could easily work pretty much like the scamp that then morphs to the clannfear. It doesn't really need to do anything different from that though some slight differences would be fun.
Charm: A simple stun that then allows your vampire to use the feed mechanism if they so desire or just wail on the NPC or opposing faction PvP player for the duration of the stun.
Fear: Just that, a simple fear. Vampires are, after all, supposed to be scary.
Add those to Drain and Mist Form and you finally have an actual vampire.

Throw in some cosmetic options in the store that allow vampires to look like they did in their mortal, pre-vamp state and maybe even one that actually makes them look especially monstrous, like a vampire lord polymorph costume, and most vampire players would be perfectly happy.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

I'll say this about Vampires . The need to feed every 30 minutes to keep stage one is too short . Vampires would wipe out Cyrodiil's population in a month in order to stay stage 1 . I also don't understand how stage 4 has become the preferred state in PVP . Every lore I've read , vampires are strongest after feeding .

It's always been opposite in TES games. The hungrier they are the more powerful they become at the cost of being noticeable to mortals.

MADshadowman · February 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Other skills vampires could have to fill out their bar:
Summon Giant Bat: This pet could easily work pretty much like the scamp that then morphs to the clannfear. It doesn't really need to do anything different from that though some slight differences would be fun.
Charm: A simple stun that then allows your vampire to use the feed mechanism if they so desire or just wail on the NPC or opposing faction PvP player for the duration of the stun.
Fear: Just that, a simple fear. Vampires are, after all, supposed to be scary.
Add those to Drain and Mist Form and you finally have an actual vampire.

Throw in some cosmetic options in the store that allow vampires to look like they did in their mortal, pre-vamp state and maybe even one that actually makes them look especially monstrous, like a vampire lord polymorph costume, and most vampire players would be perfectly happy.

I was thinking about a gap closer. You sprint or hover to the target pretty fast, deal a little damage, apply a bleeding effect, and maybe a slight healing debuff.

phreatophile · February 2015

To the OP, I'm with you. Make Vampires more interesting.

I love the raise corpse and summon bloodfiend ideas. They would have to be balanced of course.

It would be great if there were things we could feed on that would actually hurt us. Try feeding on someone thats diseased: get a debuff, or craft a potion with a fairly long (several minutes)duration made from vampire ashes and something with ravage health and Garlic that harms a vampire when they feed on whomever drank it.(shameless ripoff of Black Blood potion from The Witcher) Another thing that would add some flavor, so to speak, would be feeding on daedra. If you bite an ogrim you get a health regen bonus, bite a humanoid daedra and get a magicka and stamina regen bonus for a minute or so. Maybe some thing that gave us increased damage or increased resistance for a short time.

Somewhere in the Bosmer forest (I think), I ran into a vampire that survived by feeding on Hoarvers who had bitten humans, why can't we do this?

Feeding should be far more central to our skillset. Why are we only able to feed once from behind if we are really lucky and Mars is aligned with Uranus? Why can't I grab one of those actually immortal Dragon Knights in combat and drink up. Let it function just like it does now, no damage to them but tops us off. If folks are worried about unbreakable cc and the vampire's buddies whacking on the prey while we feed, make the donor immune to all damage for the duration of the channel.

In the single player games vampires had a long duration (60s or so) invisibility power that was only usable once per day. If it was only usable once a day, it wouldn't unbalance anything. Bring it back.

Why can't we detect life or see in the Dark? Those abilities were staples of vampirism in the single player games.

What ever happend to Vampiric Seduction? Would be a kick to use on a guard to give us a little time to escape, or to sooth our dinner enough to not agro them and avoid the guards altogether. It would be awesome if it could be used in combat and make the target attack its allies for a few seconds.

Why do the stages go by so quickly? Each one should last 2-3 times longer and the freshly fed stage 1 should look mortal.

Why don't the bonuses and weaknesses scale by stage? If fire damage debuff scaled from 15% - 60% by stage, there'd be fewer stage 4 vampires running around. Add a scaling weakness to fighter's guild abilities such that they aren't that big a deal at stage 1 and they one shot at stage 4. Make the bonus to regens scale by stage (5% @ Stage1 - 25% @ stage 4)and disapear in sunlight.

Look, I get that any discussion of an idea that might benefit players of vampire characters provokes the howls of a group of players that apparently aren't able to roll dodge out of an AOE. Yes, yes twilight sucks and all that.

Vampires are really only usefull for the regen and damage reduction now. If it were up to me, vampires would be far far more powerfull than they are now in the dark, and incredibly weak in sunlight, but we got a really lame strain of vampirism for ESO.

The strain we get in ESO is said to be unaffected by daylight but stronger in the dark, why isn't this true? Why are all of my debuffs still just as powerfull at night? Why doesn't my near zero health regen in daylight revert to a normal rate when the sun goes down?

ZOS, should add a few more strains of vampirism, at least one of which shouldn't suck.

ZOS really (so far) screwed the pooch regarding vampires and the justice system. It was OK to nerf most of our abilities to the point that most don't use them anymore, but not OK to have a guard kill us for showing up in town borderline feral. I think a few well thought out disadvantages that aren't nerfs to our skills would have gone a long way. Justice system would have been a good place to start, making all regens at or near zero in daylight would help too.

I doubt any of these ideas will ever be implemented, but I can dream.

Telel · February 2015

Telel and the pups managed a six man simulteanoues transformation. 4 bat swarms, and some talons later we were all very much dead.

Now granted our opponents are quite good (LOM, NM/MBF) but

MADshadowman wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Werewolf

that's because you can't spam it. But imagine 20 werewolves jumping you and tell me that this is not a problem.

This one can confirm 8 werewolves jumping you isn't a problem. Especially when 2 of the other side are vampires. Though 8 pups with Hircine's blessing who are not transformed can be quite the mobile murder machine.

Khajiit very much doubts another 12 pups would have made much difference if they too had been transformed.

MornaBaine · February 2015

I think if vampires and werewolves are in the same group there should be the potential for some unique synergies there.

MornaBaine · February 2015

phreatophile wrote: »

To the OP, I'm with you. Make Vampires more interesting.

I love the raise corpse and summon bloodfiend ideas. They would have to be balanced of course.

It would be great if there were things we could feed on that would actually hurt us. Try feeding on someone thats diseased: get a debuff, or craft a potion with a fairly long (several minutes)duration made from vampire ashes and something with ravage health and Garlic that harms a vampire when they feed on whomever drank it.(shameless ripoff of Black Blood potion from The Witcher) Another thing that would add some flavor, so to speak, would be feeding on daedra. If you bite an ogrim you get a health regen bonus, bite a humanoid daedra and get a magicka and stamina regen bonus for a minute or so. Maybe some thing that gave us increased damage or increased resistance for a short time.

Somewhere in the Bosmer forest (I think), I ran into a vampire that survived by feeding on Hoarvers who had bitten humans, why can't we do this?

Feeding should be far more central to our skillset. Why are we only able to feed once from behind if we are really lucky and Mars is aligned with Uranus? Why can't I grab one of those actually immortal Dragon Knights in combat and drink up. Let it function just like it does now, no damage to them but tops us off. If folks are worried about unbreakable cc and the vampire's buddies whacking on the prey while we feed, make the donor immune to all damage for the duration of the channel.

In the single player games vampires had a long duration (60s or so) invisibility power that was only usable once per day. If it was only usable once a day, it wouldn't unbalance anything. Bring it back.

Why can't we detect life or see in the Dark? Those abilities were staples of vampirism in the single player games.

What ever happend to Vampiric Seduction? Would be a kick to use on a guard to give us a little time to escape, or to sooth our dinner enough to not agro them and avoid the guards altogether. It would be awesome if it could be used in combat and make the target attack its allies for a few seconds.

Why do the stages go by so quickly? Each one should last 2-3 times longer and the freshly fed stage 1 should look mortal.

Why don't the bonuses and weaknesses scale by stage? If fire damage debuff scaled from 15% - 60% by stage, there'd be fewer stage 4 vampires running around. Add a scaling weakness to fighter's guild abilities such that they aren't that big a deal at stage 1 and they one shot at stage 4. Make the bonus to regens scale by stage (5% @ Stage1 - 25% @ stage 4)and disapear in sunlight.

Look, I get that any discussion of an idea that might benefit players of vampire characters provokes the howls of a group of players that apparently aren't able to roll dodge out of an AOE. Yes, yes twilight sucks and all that.

Vampires are really only usefull for the regen and damage reduction now. If it were up to me, vampires would be far far more powerfull than they are now in the dark, and incredibly weak in sunlight, but we got a really lame strain of vampirism for ESO.

The strain we get in ESO is said to be unaffected by daylight but stronger in the dark, why isn't this true? Why are all of my debuffs still just as powerfull at night? Why doesn't my near zero health regen in daylight revert to a normal rate when the sun goes down?

ZOS, should add a few more strains of vampirism, at least one of which shouldn't suck.

ZOS really (so far) screwed the pooch regarding vampires and the justice system. It was OK to nerf most of our abilities to the point that most don't use them anymore, but not OK to have a guard kill us for showing up in town borderline feral. I think a few well thought out disadvantages that aren't nerfs to our skills would have gone a long way. Justice system would have been a good place to start, making all regens at or near zero in daylight would help too.

I doubt any of these ideas will ever be implemented, but I can dream.

One "Awesome" is not enough, so here's another. If anyone else can claim the mantle of "vampire spokesperson" it's you my friend!

MADshadowman · February 2015

So, there's definitely some interest in expanding and improving the skill line, so could @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ or @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please get some devs on this? I would like to hear a general statement about if ZOS is interested in doing this and has own ideas or would be open to the community's ideas.

ZOS please speak to us, i'm sure we can provide you with enough ideas so you could focus on programming.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

First things first.

Joke grenade:

phreatophile wrote: »

ZOS, should add a few more strains of vampirism, at least one of which shouldn't suck.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Love the idea of Charm/Seduction. Love the idea of Fear or Enrage. Vampires have always been able to have strong illusory abilities against most mortals - it was something you had to be aware of and possibly build a resistance to.

I'm all for the Dawnbreaker line, so long as we get a counter line for hunting the hunter. All's fair, right?

Summon wolf / rats / crawlers / crows...where is the control we exude over creatures of the night?

(Would love to see a temporary Wraithform type animation accompany Fearing someone.)

There should be a buff we could cast for those that choose to help, as well.

The KoS is a moot point. I would develop Vamp cities, and I suspect we'd be fine with that.

There should be various versions of fame/infamy that accompany your character (more than just the justice system.

That should determine how characters, even guards would react to your presence.

Mass murderer? Probably don't expect a free sweetroll from the local baker.

Just saved the entire town from Daedra? Guessing they'd be willing to overlook your gift affliction.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Yeah this KOS thing is something i'm not fine with. I mean i saved Tamriel and then i get no respect only because i'm a vampire? A friendly vampire that never feeds on anybody? Well, i'll talk to molag bal then. They can have this whole apocalypse thing back. I don't care.

Samadhi · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

...
We also have the feeding self-synergy, but it's so hard to place it in PVP and it does no damage, it only heals us and puts an unbreakable stun on the target. In 1.6 this will no longer be the case, since this patch makes the feeding synergy stun breakable. Obviously there were enough DKs that complained about other people having a counter to their invincibility. Thanks for that.
...

Speaking from the perspective of a Nightblade Vampire, having feed be an unbreakable CC amounted to nothing more than an exploit, and it is good that ZOS is providing a fix.

Samadhi · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

I'll say this about Vampires . The need to feed every 30 minutes to keep stage one is too short . Vampires would wipe out Cyrodiil's population in a month in order to stay stage 1 . I also don't understand how stage 4 has become the preferred state in PVP . Every lore I've read , vampires are strongest after feeding .

Elder Scrolls vampires become "stronger" through lack of feeding in the sense that their hunger drives them to be more effective hunters; feeding brings them back to a form that is closer to that of a mortal and sacrifices that power in exchange for reduction of weaknesses.

In ESO, Stage 4 became the preferred state for PvP because Fire damage does not scale in Vampire stages, but Vampire skills become more powerful.
Health Regen stat (the only Vampire negative that fluctuates with Stages) is so unimportant to PvP, where everyone uses Magicka to heal HP instead, that there is no real sacrifice involved in playing as a Stage 4 Vampire compared to a Stage 1 Vampire.
In PvP, Stage 4 only has benefits with no real cost.
If Fire damage was 15% extra at Stage 1 but 50% extra at Stage 4, then people like me might actually consider feeding instead of just sitting on Stage 4 all the time in Cyrodiil.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

...
We also have the feeding self-synergy, but it's so hard to place it in PVP and it does no damage, it only heals us and puts an unbreakable stun on the target. In 1.6 this will no longer be the case, since this patch makes the feeding synergy stun breakable. Obviously there were enough DKs that complained about other people having a counter to their invincibility. Thanks for that.
...

Speaking from the perspective of a Nightblade Vampire, having feed be an unbreakable CC amounted to nothing more than an exploit, and it is good that ZOS is providing a fix.

It was a good counter for over-tanky DKs and i think it's sad that this one thing we could provide to help a group is now gone. God forbid someone can stop a raging DK. Sad, sad.

Samadhi · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

...
We also have the feeding self-synergy, but it's so hard to place it in PVP and it does no damage, it only heals us and puts an unbreakable stun on the target. In 1.6 this will no longer be the case, since this patch makes the feeding synergy stun breakable. Obviously there were enough DKs that complained about other people having a counter to their invincibility. Thanks for that.
...

Speaking from the perspective of a Nightblade Vampire, having feed be an unbreakable CC amounted to nothing more than an exploit, and it is good that ZOS is providing a fix.

It was a good counter for over-tanky DKs and i think it's sad that this one thing we could provide to help a group is now gone. God forbid someone can stop a raging DK. Sad, sad.

If someone needs to utilize an exploit in order to have a "good counter" that indeed points to an issue with that which they are "countering," but it does not make the use of said exploit any more valid.
This game was designed with the intention of not having unbreakable CC locks. The Feed synergy is simply being brought back into line with intended gameplay mechanics.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

...
We also have the feeding self-synergy, but it's so hard to place it in PVP and it does no damage, it only heals us and puts an unbreakable stun on the target. In 1.6 this will no longer be the case, since this patch makes the feeding synergy stun breakable. Obviously there were enough DKs that complained about other people having a counter to their invincibility. Thanks for that.
...

Speaking from the perspective of a Nightblade Vampire, having feed be an unbreakable CC amounted to nothing more than an exploit, and it is good that ZOS is providing a fix.

It was a good counter for over-tanky DKs and i think it's sad that this one thing we could provide to help a group is now gone. God forbid someone can stop a raging DK. Sad, sad.

If someone needs to utilize an exploit in order to have a "good counter" that indeed points to an issue with that which they are "countering," but it does not make the use of said exploit any more valid.
This game was designed with the intention of not having unbreakable CC locks. The Feed synergy is simply being brought back into line with intended gameplay mechanics.

I hope double-rooting stays in game. i always enjoyed rolling out of talons only to realize that i still have talons on me.

Anyway, i digress.

@ZOS Please communicate with us.

joleda4ub17_ESO · February 2015

Aevric wrote: »

I still say that ALL vampire characters and ALL characters in werewolf form should be attacked on sight by town/city/camp guards.
The coding is in place now, just mark those characters with the flag from the justice system that sets all guards after them.

+100

phreatophile · February 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

First things first.

Joke grenade:

phreatophile wrote: »

ZOS, should add a few more strains of vampirism, at least one of which shouldn't suck.

LOL. You've seen the "bite" animation. Our current vampires don't suck either.