Vampires - It's not enough

Roechacca · February 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

At least you don't have to use a "vampire form" that takes up an ultimate slot, costs a boatload of ultimate to use, only lasts for a few seconds, and prevents you from using any class, weapon, armor, guild, or other skills while active.

Werewolves are in need of major improvements imo.

Good post

MADshadowman · February 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

At least you don't have to use a "vampire form" that takes up an ultimate slot, costs a boatload of ultimate to use, only lasts for a few seconds, and prevents you from using any class, weapon, armor, guild, or other skills while active.

Werewolves are in need of major improvements imo.

But we carry our weaknesses around all day in any situation, this is not ideal either. But i wouldn't mind these disadvantages if we could really be vampires with skills that work and are not restricted in a way they become useless in most situations.

Lynx7386 · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

At least you don't have to use a "vampire form" that takes up an ultimate slot, costs a boatload of ultimate to use, only lasts for a few seconds, and prevents you from using any class, weapon, armor, guild, or other skills while active.

Werewolves are in need of major improvements imo.

But we carry our weaknesses around all day in any situation, this is not ideal either. But i wouldn't mind these disadvantages if we could really be vampires with skills that work and are not restricted in a way they become useless in most situations.

You carry your weaknesses, yes, but also all of your strengths. Werewolves get nothing when they're not transformed, and even when they are they can't use any abilities outside of the werewolf skill line.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

Fire damage, while counterable to some extent with jewelry, is still prevalent. The game's overemphasis on fire as the element of choice is very apparent.

Health regen is effectively zero. If you want to make the tradeoff, higher stage should also equal higher Stamina/Magicka Regen.

Stages should come with downsides. They should come with benefits too. Reduced cost on three skills max (two of which are rarely slotted at all) hardly qualifies.

Mystform is now a magicka based sprint, for all intents and purposes. It's even less useful now because it's a speed increase from Normal speed only - you can no longer 'sprint' in Mystform. This makes it far less of an escape than it used to be.

Boundless storm still allows sprint. Retreating maneuver still allows sprint. Neither come with zero regeneration during.

If they made Mystform deplete your magicka pool over time, it would be more useful, just as stamina is depleted when you sprint.

We won't get started on how you can get hung up on a blade of grass, a tree stump, or an NPC while you are effectively blood and fog...

There's a single attack. Drain is a one-shot ("single use", not "used and the other guy's dead") and that's only if someone else hasn't recently used it...

and a single escape (unless you take the humorous poison morph). That's it.

There is no potential counter to FG skills. We have no Hunt the Hunter passives that ID Vamp Hunters to us... (These automatically work on Vamps from the get-go, but require a passive to work on WW's, btw)

Silver's proc went up considerably, damage went down considerably. That's a step close to the right direction. Means we don't get one-shotted while we have that big red balloon tied to our wrist in Cyrodiil.

How about adding a "Fear?" You want KoS from the guards, but somehow our presence isn't the least bothersome to anyone else, including NPC's/PC's trying to confront us?

And for all of the "Twilight" references and "there should be none of this" individuals out there.

Get some new material.
Get over yourself.

Not everyone took vamp as FOTM or for "I win."

There should be benefits and drawbacks. Ironically, it's the non-Vamps that are the one's usually insisting it has to be a certain way.

The line could be expanded without offsetting the balance and we all know it.

reften · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

MADshadowman · February 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

At least you don't have to use a "vampire form" that takes up an ultimate slot, costs a boatload of ultimate to use, only lasts for a few seconds, and prevents you from using any class, weapon, armor, guild, or other skills while active.

Werewolves are in need of major improvements imo.

But we carry our weaknesses around all day in any situation, this is not ideal either. But i wouldn't mind these disadvantages if we could really be vampires with skills that work and are not restricted in a way they become useless in most situations.

You carry your weaknesses, yes, but also all of your strengths. Werewolves get nothing when they're not transformed, and even when they are they can't use any abilities outside of the werewolf skill line.

Werewolves get 15% more stam regen, even if not in ww form.

MADshadowman · February 2015

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

OrangeTheCat · February 2015

.

MADshadowman · February 2015

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

.

^ this ^

Roechacca · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

MADshadowman · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

Peteris · February 2015

Dear developers, vampires should be nerfed, please ignore OP. Thank you in advance.

Roechacca · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

I can't figure out which adds more to discussion, the year old video or your unfounded plea.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Teiji · February 2015

I am being constructive . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Everything on PTS is subject to change and should be acknowledged as such. We could create 1000 pages for this thread where all we talk about is stuff like, "If Zenimax make a five-piece armor set that reduces ultimate cost by 100%, then hurr durr pvp will be broken and I'll unsub because batswarm will cost 0 ultimate." Hardly relevant nor constructive.

Moving on, Werewolf is incredibly fun, you feel dangerous like a savage beast, plus you can reduce healing received which is always wonderful.

Vampire is fun, definitely. You feel like the night as you move around really fast and turn into a ball of mist, then you realise that Werewolf is a hundred times more Werewolfie as the only offensive vampire basic abilities you have access to are "ball of poison gas" [yes I know it's mist] or of course "I vant to suck your blood through my hand, hurr durr fear the vampire".

No idea what other offensive abilities or whatever they could do for Vampire. Stuff for stamina and / or magicka definitely would be great. Just anything, more variety and diversity so it's not so bland and basic.

Even a summon bloodfiend or turn thrall ability where you reanimate a dead corpse that mindlessly attacks furiously [it's not a pet after all].
Plus an ability similar to Repentance, so instead of taking "holy energy" from the bodies of the dead in order to replenish your health and stamina [sounds like necromancy to me] you simply just suck their corpses dry to return resource X, which changes according to morph to suite magicka and stamina centric builds respectively.

Roechacca · February 2015

Teiji wrote: »

I am being constructive . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Everything on PTS is subject to change and should be acknowledged as such. We could create 1000 pages for this thread where all we talk about is stuff like, "If Zenimax make a five-piece armor set that reduces ultimate cost by 100%, then hurr durr pvp will be broken and I'll unsub because batswarm will cost 0 ultimate." Hardly relevant nor constructive.

Moving on, Werewolf is incredibly fun, you feel dangerous like a savage beast, plus you can reduce healing received which is always wonderful.

Vampire is fun, definitely. You feel like the night as you move around really fast and turn into a ball of mist, then you realise that Werewolf is a hundred times more Werewolfie as the only offensive vampire basic abilities you have access to are "ball of poison gas" [yes I know it's mist] or of course "I vant to suck your blood through my hand, hurr durr fear the vampire".

No idea what other offensive abilities or whatever they could do for Vampire. Stuff for stamina and / or magicka definitely would be great. Just anything, more variety and diversity so it's not so bland and basic.

Even a summon bloodfiend or turn thrall ability where you reanimate a dead corpse that mindlessly attacks furiously [it's not a pet after all].
Plus an ability similar to Repentance, so instead of taking "holy energy" from the bodies of the dead in order to replenish your health and stamina [sounds like necromancy to me] you simply just suck their corpses dry to return resource X, which changes according to morph to suite magicka and stamina centric builds respectively.

I think you've misinterpreted my intent here . I play a Vampire , and look forward to good ideas . At the same time I look for flaws in these ideas that may effect balance in PVP as they have in the past . You've listed some ideas .

Adding a Templar ability like Repentance . Will it stack with repentance on a Templar ?

Adding a Blood Fiend pet - What level and stats compared to the characters template ?

reften · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

you're struggling here.

vamps benefit sneaky assassin style playersthe most.

I love the fast sneak, the get into sneak fast at night, the batswarm, and the stage 4 health regen deal is not an issue for me because I use the Shadow Walker set.

I will say for me, the vamp skills are useless...but I see people using them in PvP and PvE, so someone is finding value in putting 1 or 2 in their 10 skill options.

Bouvin · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

Sarru wrote: »

This game is already Twilight Online. I think both vamp and WW should be nerfed.

I hear you on that . However , I think if they added more "special effects" , not necessarily new abilities for Vampire , those players that enjoy the class for RP would feel more immersed in their characters . Instead of asking for more abilities that can upset balance , I would suggest asking for cosmetic enhancements and special emotes .

I think we need a Dawnguard line, that like Vamp & WW you can only have if you're not Vamp or WW.

This would add a little more "mix" and break up the "Twilight Online" feel..

MADshadowman · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Roechacca · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .

Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?

Darklord_Tiberius · February 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

Are you not aware of how amazing a build becomes once you become vampire? There is a reason it is twilight online in pvp.......dont like weakness to fire? Cool story bro, put on fire resistance, problem solved >_<

Your ultimate is already devastating, no point in being in anything except stage 4. The mist form?! GTFO! lol that thing is the most annoying escape skill ever. Vampires are fine where they are. If anything, and this is just MY opinion, I say penalize them far worse than what they have right now. Just so the twinkle freaks in pvp go away.

The sheer power being a vampire gives should come at a steep cost sorry.

^ LOL.. Devastating? L2ROLL

Merlin13KAGL · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP .

@roechacca This is a zerg issue, not a vamp issue.

Any AoE spammed by large groups in PvP will have the same effect.

roechacca wrote: »

Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Actually, everyone should know. Anyone on the PTS does know.

Aside from using Invigorating Drain, vamp/not vamp, Stage 1, Stage 4, Stage none will have no effect on Ult generation in 1.6 at all.

You'll generate it just as fast (or slow) as anyone else does, unless you have a skill/passive that allows you to generate it faster. Drain is not the only skill that provides Ult.

Again, not a vamp issue.

frould · February 2015

It has big difference between vamp and were.

vamp you being vamp all time so you got all benefit from passive and can use vamp skills whenever you need. were is another story.

MADshadowman · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .

Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?

First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.

and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.

Roechacca · February 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP .

@roechacca This is a zerg issue, not a vamp issue.

Any AoE spammed by large groups in PvP will have the same effect.

roechacca wrote: »

Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Actually, everyone should know. Anyone on the PTS does know.

Aside from using Invigorating Drain, vamp/not vamp, Stage 1, Stage 4, Stage none will have no effect on Ult generation in 1.6 at all.

You'll generate it just as fast (or slow) as anyone else does, unless you have a skill/passive that allows you to generate it faster. Drain is not the only skill that provides Ult.

Again, not a vamp issue.

Again there's no clear laid out suggestion by the OP . One person has made an ability suggestion and I asked them the questions I have .

thanks for the test center info on Ult gen .

OrangeTheCat · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

.

^ this ^

Sorry, my sub has ended and I am wondering if I can still post. Seems that I can.

Telel · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Werewolf

MADshadowman · February 2015

roechacca wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP .

@roechacca This is a zerg issue, not a vamp issue.

Any AoE spammed by large groups in PvP will have the same effect.

roechacca wrote: »

Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Actually, everyone should know. Anyone on the PTS does know.

Aside from using Invigorating Drain, vamp/not vamp, Stage 1, Stage 4, Stage none will have no effect on Ult generation in 1.6 at all.

You'll generate it just as fast (or slow) as anyone else does, unless you have a skill/passive that allows you to generate it faster. Drain is not the only skill that provides Ult.

Again, not a vamp issue.

Again there's no clear laid out suggestion by the OP . One person has made an ability suggestion and I asked them the questions I have .

thanks for the test center info on Ult gen .

Let's first discuss the need of expanding the skill line, before we come up with suggestions. And i honestly think ZOS doesn't care about our suggestions anyway. I have some ideas, but nothing i have thought through.

Roechacca · February 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Dawn breaker , Soul Strike , War horn . There's 3 .

Now will you share this idea or are you just trying to test my knowledge of Ultimates to discredit any evidence that balance is a real concern ?

First of all is any spamming of abilites in PVP a problem.

and secondly: why are we focusing on bat swarm again? this is not about bat swarm or PVP in general. this is about making the vamp skill line worth taking and fun to play. this is not supposed to make you stronger than others, it's just about giving you more options to play your vampire toon more actively and feel like a vampire.

I'm all for that . What ever is added however , always effects PVP . I hope you get some good ideas . I'm not trying to knock making Vampire better , in fact I'm all for any good suggestions . Let's hope you create or get some .

MADshadowman · February 2015

Telel wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Bat swarm
A good AOE that does damage and heals and sticks with you. But it got nerfed, first 25% less damage, then 30% less healing. Now it's not a real danger anymore. I can't remember the last time i died through bat swarm or really killed someone with it.
quote]

Ahhh, no. Batswarm is still a top 5 ultimate in the game for vamp NBs. Sap and bats, with tri-pots still makes me an virtually unkillable DPS machine for a time bats are running...with sap recharging ultimate at times enough to pop bats again if nobody throws a negate down.

1.6 that changes a bit with ultimate generation change, but we'll see.

We're not discussing classes + vamps here, this is only about vamps. And it is in no way stronger than other ultimates and the only negative effect on targets is that they take damage, nothing else happens. no stun, no root, no snare, no disorient, no fear, just damage and the damage can easily be outhealed or outshielded, or you can just run or dodge roll out of it. There is nothing really impressive about it. You need at least 4-5 people around you to get so much healing, that you're hard to kill, but with 4-5 people that are attacking you, you can still die pretty easily

Yes it's never been a problem .

http://youtu.be/Ucmjldufa6U

Oh wait .. It has an we should be careful .

Uhm, this video is 10 months old and things have been fixed. Please stay out of the discussion if you have nothing constructive to add. Thank you.

I am being constructive . You are asking for new abilities for vampire and those that have dealt with the negative effects in PVP get concerned and want people reminded of past problems . The current bat swarm is still a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP . Ultimate generation was changed in 1.6 but no one knows yet if it will prevent how fast this ultimate builds up in stage four vampires .

Now it's your turn to be constructive and tell us exactly what new things you're asking to add . "Just needs more" isn't very constructive at all .

Name one ultimate that's not a problem when spammed by large groups in PVP.

Werewolf

that's because you can't spam it. But imagine 20 werewolves jumping you and tell me that this is not a problem.