Sandbox features should be high priority

Firellight · February 2015

I don't read game journalism much, but I gave Ryan Getchell's article a read.
mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9345

I agree with his concerns. Spending months waiting for 5 hours worth of content is not worth the time and money, and people are going to quickly get bored of the game once accomplishing goals and beating content. Imo, ZOS should make it one of their highest priorities to implement features that allow us to generate our own experiences. The Elder Scrolls community has so many modders and fanfiction writers that an MMO cannot waste the opportunity for an online Elder Scrolls sandbox - and you bet the console players will be looking for these quality experiences.

Such features may include:
- Player influence on faction war, including unaffiliated character options and forming factions through guilds (it's 2E 582, new factions wouldn't hurt the lore much, especially RP factions).
- Player influence on in-game politics (Justice system).
- Housing (fields are empty, anyway).
- Visual enhancement add-on capabilities, such as texture packs and lighting.
- Ability to create quests (instances?), with successful creators being able to create open-world quests.
- Ability to create resource packs, such as new object models, etc. This could be an in-game feature for auto updates.
- Costume modelling capabilities.
Please add to this list if you have any suggestions of your own, or perhaps suggest edits and details to existing listings.

The point is to generate a dynamic MMO experience, because if ZOS is looking for long term stays, ESO must be a liveable environment. Clearly, if ZOS is having issues with development progress, then the players have to be able to ease the development time, possibly making ESO the best MMORPG in the AAA industry.

mandrakethebard_ESO · February 2015

Player-designed housing. Definitely.

Dave2836 · February 2015

The hardcore min max players can plow through any content faster than any dev team can implement that content.

There is also a lot of variables to consider with sandbox elements. In EQ2, a true themepark in the strictest totalitarian sense, the server crashed when someone sold their quest reward the stein of grogg to a vendor. Seriously no one forsaw that a player would sell their quest reward trophy. In a themepark. Imagine the s###show that will happen in this game with sand box implementation.

So yeah.... I'M ALL IN FOR IT.

Nyghthowler · February 2015

IMO, everyone thinks that their concern or opinion is of the highest priority...

Tapio75 · February 2015

Agreed

Dave2836 · February 2015

My two cents for your penny?

Gidorick · February 2015

Expanded open-water fishing.
Meaningful hunting of world animals (including birds)
NPC trade routes that can be attacked/defended impacting the prices and inventory of destination cities.
NPC Bounties where players can hunt down, kill, and collect the bounty for NPC outlaws.
Horse/Guar/Lizard/Frog racing/betting

In the past I've had some suggestions that would make ESO MUCH more sand-boxy.

Optional Tool Crafting
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/93007/optional-tool-crafting-concept

Skooma Trade
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141857/skooma-concept-suggestion-moved-crom-crafting-discussion
(by @tinythinker) http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/142459/crafting-skooma-after-the-release-of-the-justice-system

Player Created Content
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144735/player-created-content-suggestion-for-the-future-of-eso

Player Housing
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145287/another-housing-suggestion-a-3-phase-release-plan

You are right though... ESO needs more of these types of elements to keep people in game, interested which will lead them to spending Crown.

Dcaliber · February 2015

Oh lawd, I need housing.

kijima · February 2015

Dave2836 wrote: »

So yeah.... I'M ALL IN FOR IT.

^ Gold!

Player Housing
Swimming below the waters surface
Being able to break things (see a crate, smash it)
Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood
Dragons (to hell with lore, I want to fight frickin dragons)
Walking from map to map without loading screens

But fix PvP lag above all

keithvsmith · February 2015

kijima wrote: »

Dave2836 wrote: »

So yeah.... I'M ALL IN FOR IT.

^ Gold!
Player Housing

Swimming below the waters surface

Being able to break things (see a crate, smash it)

Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood

Dragons (to hell with lore, I want to fight frickin dragons)

Walking from map to map without loading screens

But fix PvP lag above all

+1

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · February 2015

This is what is needed for an MMO to have long term sustainability.
The Justice system and AvA were suposed to be a great way to have sandbox mechanic in the game, but both have been more or less put aside.

The thing is, despite being necessary for the game to grow and strive, these systems do not market well. It is very hard to sell them as DLC on the crown store so they have no value for ZOS.

I'm sorry, but we won't see any of this.

UrQuan · February 2015

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

This is what is needed for an MMO to have long term sustainability.
The Justice system and AvA were suposed to be a great way to have sandbox mechanic in the game, but both have been more or less put aside.

The thing is, despite being necessary for the game to grow and strive, these systems do not market well. It is very hard to sell them as DLC on the crown store so they have no value for ZOS.

I'm sorry, but we won't see any of this.

The justice system has been put aside? Um, I guess you're not familiar with any of the upcoming changes for 1.6, and you haven't been on the PTS (or the forums) lately.

The first stage of the justice system is on the PTS, and people have been playing it for a little over a week. The PVP portion of the justice system isn't part of it yet, but that hasn't been abandoned - they just want to implement it in stages to ensure that they've worked out as many kinks as possible before opening up a PVP system across Tamriel.

Humanistic · February 2015

There is a big trend right now with sandbox games on Steam. H1Z1 has actually been gaining A LOT of buzz because you can go out, scavenge, and make things yourself, and actually build your world. The zombie threat is always looming, however - great struggle there.

When people aren't getting handed gear all the time and they have to find resources to make their own stuff, then those items have a lot more meaning to them than something they just got handed on a silver platter.

SanderBuraas · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Expanded open-water fishing.

Meaningful hunting of world animals (including birds)

NPC trade routes that can be attacked/defended impacting the prices and inventory of destination cities.

NPC Bounties where players can hunt down, kill, and collect the bounty for NPC outlaws.

Horse/Guar/Lizard/Frog racing/betting

In the past I've had some suggestions that would make ESO MUCH more sand-boxy.

Optional Tool Crafting
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/93007/optional-tool-crafting-concept

Skooma Trade
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/141857/skooma-concept-suggestion-moved-crom-crafting-discussion
(by @tinythinker) http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/142459/crafting-skooma-after-the-release-of-the-justice-system

Player Created Content
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144735/player-created-content-suggestion-for-the-future-of-eso

Player Housing
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145287/another-housing-suggestion-a-3-phase-release-plan

You are right though... ESO needs more of these types of elements to keep people in game, interested which will lead them to spending Crown.

I'm all for these suggestions, if done right of course.

There was a quest in the one of the Aldmeri Dominion zones where I could partake in a mini-game called 'Spikeball', which turned out to be very fun even with just npcs. Imagine this implemented for players to play against eachother. And we must not forget the other fun activities such as animal races and the various arenas.

rawne1980b16_ESO · February 2015

Humanistic wrote: »

There is a big trend right now with sandbox games on Steam. H1Z1 has actually been gaining A LOT of buzz because you can go out, scavenge, and make things yourself, and actually build your world. The zombie threat is always looming, however - great struggle there.

When people aren't getting handed gear all the time and they have to find resources to make their own stuff, then those items have a lot more meaning to them than something they just got handed on a silver platter.

Entirely different kind of game.

Nyghthowler · February 2015

Humanistic wrote: »

There is a big trend right now with sandbox games on Steam. H1Z1 has actually been gaining A LOT of buzz because you can go out, scavenge, and make things yourself, and actually build your world. The zombie threat is always looming, however - great struggle there.

When people aren't getting handed gear all the time and they have to find resources to make their own stuff, then those items have a lot more meaning to them than something they just got handed on a silver platter.

Or you can spend RL money and buy a air drop supply crate with various items and weapons. Yeah, that's sandbox alright...

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · February 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

This is what is needed for an MMO to have long term sustainability.
The Justice system and AvA were suposed to be a great way to have sandbox mechanic in the game, but both have been more or less put aside.

The thing is, despite being necessary for the game to grow and strive, these systems do not market well. It is very hard to sell them as DLC on the crown store so they have no value for ZOS.

I'm sorry, but we won't see any of this.

The justice system has been put aside? Um, I guess you're not familiar with any of the upcoming changes for 1.6, and you haven't been on the PTS (or the forums) lately.

The first stage of the justice system is on the PTS, and people have been playing it for a little over a week. The PVP portion of the justice system isn't part of it yet, but that hasn't been abandoned - they just want to implement it in stages to ensure that they've worked out as many kinks as possible before opening up a PVP system across Tamriel.

Notice I mentioned both AvA and the Justice system, both in game but both incomplete.

I'm aware the PvE aspect of the justice system is implemented. But i'm also aware that the PvP aspect is now an "if/when" kind of possibility just like the spellcrafting system is "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment"

Apparently the game needs to breath for a few months after the console update.

NukeAllTheThings · February 2015

Nyghthowler wrote: »

Humanistic wrote: »

There is a big trend right now with sandbox games on Steam. H1Z1 has actually been gaining A LOT of buzz because you can go out, scavenge, and make things yourself, and actually build your world. The zombie threat is always looming, however - great struggle there.

When people aren't getting handed gear all the time and they have to find resources to make their own stuff, then those items have a lot more meaning to them than something they just got handed on a silver platter.

Or you can spend RL money and buy a air drop supply crate with various items and weapons. Yeah, that's sandbox alright...

If you are on my server then you wasted RL money because you ain't getting that air drop. muahahahaha

UrQuan · February 2015

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm aware the PvE aspect of the justice system is implemented. But i'm also aware that the PvP aspect is now an "if/when" kind of possibility just like the spellcrafting system is "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment"

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that it's "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment." Instead I've seen things such as this (from a thread specifically asking why PVP isn't in the justice system in 1.6):

ZOS_MandiParker wrote: »

PvE Justice was such a massive and fundamental alteration to the current game that we wanted to give players a chance to adjust to it first. We wanted to see what everybody enjoys or avoids before adding in any new toys.

that would seem to indicate that it is very much on their minds and being worked on.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · February 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm aware the PvE aspect of the justice system is implemented. But i'm also aware that the PvP aspect is now an "if/when" kind of possibility just like the spellcrafting system is "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment"

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that it's "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment." Instead I've seen things such as this (from a thread specifically asking why PVP isn't in the justice system in 1.6):

ZOS_MandiParker wrote: »

PvE Justice was such a massive and fundamental alteration to the current game that we wanted to give players a chance to adjust to it first. We wanted to see what everybody enjoys or avoids before adding in any new toys.

that would seem to indicate that it is very much on their minds and being worked on.

The latest ESO live in the Q&A section.
The rest is from the reddit AUA.

UrQuan · February 2015

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm aware the PvE aspect of the justice system is implemented. But i'm also aware that the PvP aspect is now an "if/when" kind of possibility just like the spellcrafting system is "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment"

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that it's "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment." Instead I've seen things such as this (from a thread specifically asking why PVP isn't in the justice system in 1.6):

ZOS_MandiParker wrote: »

PvE Justice was such a massive and fundamental alteration to the current game that we wanted to give players a chance to adjust to it first. We wanted to see what everybody enjoys or avoids before adding in any new toys.

that would seem to indicate that it is very much on their minds and being worked on.

The latest ESO live in the Q&A section.
The rest is from the reddit AUA.

Got a link to the relevant answers? I'd like to check them out.

Wolfsspinne · February 2015

Maybe they should fix the existing features before screwing things up on new ones, too.

As for sandbox in general...
Sandbox-features are cool. But they usually don't work for MMOs.

Gidorick · February 2015

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

Maybe they should fix the existing features before screwing things up on new ones, too.

As for sandbox in general...
Sandbox-features are cool. But they usually don't work for MMOs.

They spend so much time "fixing" ESO that new content trickles out like... well... like new content for ESO. lol.

DeLindsay · February 2015

If ZoS can make ESO a sandbox like Eve Online (without Spaceships obviously) then I'm 100% for it and will support them in their effort to do so. Eve is my all time favorite MMO and I've been playing on-off since 2006.

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

As for sandbox in general...
Sandbox-features are cool. But they usually don't work for MMOs.

Eve Online would disagree with your statement.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · February 2015

Wolfsspinne wrote: »

Maybe they should fix the existing features before screwing things up on new ones, too.

As for sandbox in general...
Sandbox-features are cool. But they usually don't work for MMOs.

wut? I just can't even... I literaly can't even...
Have you no idea what the roots of the genre are?

Reality is completely opposite to what you just said. Themepark design usually doesn't work for MMOs but Blizzard could pull it off thanks to a huge amount of resources. Every attempt at cloning that has failed because no other publisher out there could produce enough content. Even WoW is strugling with their choices nowadays.

Had blizzard chosen to clone UO rather than EQ and the genre would be entirely different and objectively in a much better place right now.

UrQuan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm aware the PvE aspect of the justice system is implemented. But i'm also aware that the PvP aspect is now an "if/when" kind of possibility just like the spellcrafting system is "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment"

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate that it's "something we'd like to see in the game but not worked on at the moment." Instead I've seen things such as this (from a thread specifically asking why PVP isn't in the justice system in 1.6):

ZOS_MandiParker wrote: »

PvE Justice was such a massive and fundamental alteration to the current game that we wanted to give players a chance to adjust to it first. We wanted to see what everybody enjoys or avoids before adding in any new toys.

that would seem to indicate that it is very much on their minds and being worked on.

The latest ESO live in the Q&A section.
The rest is from the reddit AUA.

Got a link to the relevant answers? I'd like to check them out.

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3739342

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/?limit=500

Have a nice watch and a nice read.

UrQuan · February 2015

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3739342

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/?limit=500

Have a nice watch and a nice read.

See I was hoping for a link to the specific answers that were relevant to our discussion, as I can't go through all of that to find it here at work (I always have time for 5 minutes of forums here, and 5 minutes there, but never more than that - and I can't watch videos), and I won't be home for a couple of days...

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · February 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3739342

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/?limit=500

Have a nice watch and a nice read.

See I was hoping for a link to the specific answers that were relevant to our discussion, as I can't go through all of that to find it here at work (I always have time for 5 minutes of forums here, and 5 minutes there, but never more than that - and I can't watch videos), and I won't be home for a couple of days...

I understand. You'll just have to trust me until you can watch the video. In the QA part a question was asked about the state of spellcrafting and Gina said "it's not worked on currently".

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2tfb48/welcome_to_the_eso_tamriel_unlimited_aua/cnyi90a
For the PvP aspect of the justice system.

If you do ctrl + f and search for keyword on the initial link I gave, you can find stuff quickly.

But the general idea is that game systems, the category sandbox elements would fall into, are all on hold. Either not worked on, in full reconsideration or simply delayed without ETA.

At best ,we'll get 1.7 at the end of 2015, early 2016. And that's if we're lucky.
Sandbox elements can't be sold on a cash shop, so they are extremly low priority at this point.

Gidorick · February 2015

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

(snip)

But the general idea is that game systems, the category sandbox elements would fall into, are all on hold. Either not worked on, in full reconsideration or simply delayed without ETA.

At best ,we'll get 1.7 at the end of 2015, early 2016. And that's if we're lucky.
Sandbox elements can't be sold on a cash shop, so they are extremly low priority at this point.

The growth of ESO has pretty much been stunted from the get to... Even more so now that each and every development decision needs to answer the question "How will that make us money?"

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

(snip)

But the general idea is that game systems, the category sandbox elements would fall into, are all on hold. Either not worked on, in full reconsideration or simply delayed without ETA.

At best ,we'll get 1.7 at the end of 2015, early 2016. And that's if we're lucky.
Sandbox elements can't be sold on a cash shop, so they are extremly low priority at this point.

The growth of ESO has pretty much been stunted from the get to... Even more so now that each and every development decision needs to answer the question "How will that make us money?"

Well, the game was growing well, 1.6 is the only time where we had to wait more than 6 weeks to get an update but seeing its scale, it is understandable.
It was doing better and even had a huge surge of subscription during december along the 1.6 hype.

One thing to take into account also is that Orsinium, Murkmire and the Imperial City were nearly finished at Quakecon. They've been held back in order to be sold as DLCs and those team have been working on the clockwork city and the 3 other zones they've shown us.
Without the b2p change, we would have at the very least 2, maybe 3 more zones in the game at this point.

Even if those aren't sandbox elements, those decisions did considerable damage to the game. They actually stoped working on the spellcrafting, one of the most interesting concept they showed us, just to speed along their b2p plans.

RazielSR · February 2015

I completely agree that this game should have been a sandbox mmo. But you forget that it is not,and it will never be. You are many years late to have some kind of hope. This game was designed as a theme park mmo plus grindfestival all around.

From 1.6 freemium on forward, it will be a lot more grindpark.

If you wanna fool yourself with this amazing features you talk about and you will never see,its ok.

SanderBuraas · February 2015

RazielSR wrote: »

I completely agree that this game should have been a sandbox mmo. But you forget that it is not,and it will never be. You are many years late to have some kind of hope. This game was designed as a theme park mmo plus grindfestival all around.

From 1.6 freemium on forward, it will be a lot more grindpark.

If you wanna fool yourself with this amazing features you talk about and you will never see,its ok.

First of all, why are you so determined on being negative? If you do not enjoy the game, or see yourself enjoying the game in the future, you are free to leave whenever. The game developers do wish to add various sandbox features to the game, such as player housing.